May 1st Planned City Shutdowns...

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/1/2006 3:25:45 AM
Author: sunkist


That''s no qualification to automatically get a green card! Now IF they can sing the national anthem in English, then they can GET IN LINE to get a green card.

funny....i thought

this interviewer of mine was going to ask me to sing the national anthem before she let me become a U.S. citizen

i mean, she threw the book at me

asked me tons of Q''s about U.S. history.

 

[colormyworld]

Most illeglas are renting as far as I can tell and I''m pretty sure property taxes are included in the rent they pay each month. So it would seem as though they are helping to defray the cost of educating their children.

 

[colormyworld]

I guess I'll throw this out there too.
Exactly who are the Mexican people? I know there is a small portion with a spanish hertiage but what about the rest. I mean the native american looking ones.

 

[Mr Majestyk]

I suspect the Mexican people have a varied and diverse background as do Americans. Not sure how many Mexicans came from Ireland, but I am sure many came from Central America or even South America. I suspect there is a small percentage of "Native Mexicans."

I haven''t heard the ship theories about the Native Americans, but I have heard the Bering Strait theory. I HAVE heard that aside from some parts of central Africa, everyone is an immigrant, including the Native Americans. People moved around, probably in search of cheaper gasoline, which means that there will be less immigration now.

 

[colormyworld]

Last time I looked. Mexico is part of North America.

 

[perry]

Cinnabar only listed part of the numbers for "Green Cards" - those from unique applications, and missed the "family relationship" group.

Here are the facts for 2005 - from the INS:

In 2005, a total of 1,122,373 persons became LPRs of
the United States (see Table 1). The majority (66 percent)
lived in the United States when they became LPRs. Nearly
three-fifths (58 percent) were granted permanent residence
based on a family relationship with a U.S. citizen
or legal permanent resident of the United States.

They have a nice chart that shows over the recent few years that the US is legally admitting at least 700,000 per year (it jumps up and down year to year like a sawtooth, with 700,000 being a low point and the current 1,122,373 being a high point).

One question I would like for peopleto consider: Who else is legally admitting this amount of legal immigrants year after year after year?

Answer: NO ONE ELSE. No one else is even close (there have been a few "one time" cases of large groups in war or disaster situations).

The U.S.A. legally admits more immigrants than anyone else in recent history - and always has.

The problem is that more and more people want to get here => thus, it only appears restrictive to those who only consider the restrictions.

In reallilty - it is wide open and more people are legally emegrating to the US than ever before (even more now than during the early 1900 period of widescale worldwide emegration to a growing US when the numbers were for a few years close to what they are now).

The problem of illegle immigration is troublesome to me: Why should someone get rewarded for breaking the law? How do you humanely treat people? What about the "Horror stories" where people fled for their lives (really)?

I'll touch the last one first: There has always been a small amount of illegal immigration by people who just fled to the US for various reasons. My answer would be that in cases like that - if they can show that they have behaved honorably in this country - and can demonstrate what the threat was that made them flee into the US (and the claim is reasonable): That I would allow them. However, this is perhaps 1/2 of 1% of the problem.

As far as the rest: there are no easy solutions. But this I am sure of; no society last that allows a significant number of people to break the laws and be rewarded by it.

It also seems to me - that my memory is... that there was a similar "amnesty" program about 20 - 25 years ago. We allowed "illegals" to declare themselves and gain citizenshhip process rights. One of the arguments against it then was that it would encourage more. If I recall correctly - the promises were to the american people back then that it would truely be a "one time deal."

All, have a nice day.

Perry

 

[cinnabar]

Date: 5/1/2006 9:17:16 PM
Author: perry
Cinnabar only listed part of the numbers for ''Green Cards'' - those from unique applications, and missed the ''family relationship'' group.

My apologies. The figures I listed were those from the quota system; they are the ones with a waiting list, where only a certain number are issued each year. The "family relationship" green cards do not have any limit, there is no waiting list. The bureaucratic hell of paperwork must still be gone through, and the appropriate fees paid, but there is no annual limit to the number of such green cards issued. In theory, one million such green cards could be issued in a year, or just a hundred.

Perry''s description of them as being "family relationship" is slightly misleading, in that it implies that anyone with any family relationship to a US citizen can apply, and that''s not true. The unlimited group applies only to spouses and minor children.

Anyone with any other family relationship, such as parents and siblings, is stuck in the interminable quota system with the rest of us aliens.

 

[perry]

Cinnibar:

I did not define it: I only quoted from the INS site.

As far as the quota''s go: That is in excess of 1/2 million people a year.

Again; who else allows a half million people to legally immegrate a year, year after year after year.

No one else.

I have a friend who went through the multiyear "hell" of claiming and then proving that she was a political refugee; that she would have been killed - with the rest of her family by the current rulling party in her own country. Many many years, and legal appeals after the INS turned her down. But she made it. Yet, I never once heard her complain that the process was too tough.

While she was here, she learned english and attended a 2 year college and then nursing school. She felt that if she had to leave the US that she could set herself up as a nurse in another 3rd world country and not have any problems.

She did eventually get her green card and now she is happy in the US.

Perry

 

[monarch64]

Date: 5/1/2006 5:35:56 PM
Author: rainbowtrout
this is something I would keep up with if I had more time, so could you fill me in on what you read/where and such? Last I heard the land bridge theory was hotly contested but not dead per se.

Rainbow, there are several different theories on how native Americans came to be "native" to the continents of North and South America. If you google "indigineous americans" or some such search parameter, they''ll come up. Wikipedia has a pretty easy to follow synopsis of said theories (I''m not saying you need "easy to follow", don''t get me wrong here.) There is the land bridge theory, as well as several others involving ships, etc. Some anthropologists have even gone so far as to try to study the contents of stomachs of petrified corpses'' in an attempt to determine their geographic origins. It is quite a hot debate. I asked Sunkist earlier which source she''d obtained the theory of natives sailing here and settling on their own...not to start a debate, but in hopes that someone could teach me something. I am of native American heritage and am always looking for further education on the subject.

 

[tawn]

Date: 5/1/2006 8:27:06 PM
Author: colormyworld
Most illeglas are renting as far as I can tell and I''m pretty sure property taxes are included in the rent they pay each month. So it would seem as though they are helping to defray the cost of educating their children.

How many kids are getting a good education when you have 30 kids to a teacher, and only half speak english? I know that''s an issue here in San Diego, living so close to Mexico...and also in Central Washington State where there was a huge Russian population surge in the last few years.

So, then it becomes an issue of hiring extra teachers that are bilingual and textbooks, etc... It all seems simple, but it''s like peeling back the layers of an onion. If they''re here legally, they should have these things provided for them.

But, if they''re not here legally...why should the children who are, receive less of an education because of it?

 

[monarch64]

Date: 5/1/2006 10:29:33 PM
Author: monarch64

Date: 5/1/2006 5:35:56 PM
Author: rainbowtrout
this is something I would keep up with if I had more time, so could you fill me in on what you read/where and such? Last I heard the land bridge theory was hotly contested but not dead per se.

Rainbow, there are several different theories on how native Americans came to be ''native'' to the continents of North and South America. If you google ''indigineous americans'' or some such search parameter, they''ll come up. Wikipedia has a pretty easy to follow synopsis of said theories (I''m not saying you need ''easy to follow'', don''t get me wrong here.) There is the land bridge theory, as well as several others involving ships, etc. Some anthropologists have even gone so far as to try to study the contents of stomachs of petrified corpses'' in an attempt to determine their geographic origins. It is quite a hot debate. I asked Sunkist earlier which source she''d obtained the theory of natives sailing here and settling on their own...not to start a debate, but in hopes that someone could teach me something. I am of native American heritage and am always looking for further education on the subject.

ETA: most theorists seem to state that native Americans did settle the Americas about 16,000 years ago....obviously many, many years before Europeans "discovered" them...

 

[rainbowtrout]

Date: 5/1/2006 10:38:19 PM
Author: monarch64

Date: 5/1/2006 10:29:33 PM

Author: monarch64

Date: 5/1/2006 5:35:56 PM

Author: rainbowtrout

this is something I would keep up with if I had more time, so could you fill me in on what you read/where and such? Last I heard the land bridge theory was hotly contested but not dead per se.

Rainbow, there are several different theories on how native Americans came to be ''native'' to the continents of North and South America. If you google ''indigineous americans'' or some such search parameter, they''ll come up. Wikipedia has a pretty easy to follow synopsis of said theories (I''m not saying you need ''easy to follow'', don''t get me wrong here.) There is the land bridge theory, as well as several others involving ships, etc. Some anthropologists have even gone so far as to try to study the contents of stomachs of petrified corpses'' in an attempt to determine their geographic origins. It is quite a hot debate. I asked Sunkist earlier which source she''d obtained the theory of natives sailing here and settling on their own...not to start a debate, but in hopes that someone could teach me something. I am of native American heritage and am always looking for further education on the subject.

ETA: most theorists seem to state that native Americans did settle the Americas about 16,000 years ago....obviously many, many years before Europeans ''discovered'' them...

Hi monarch,
thanks for the info--I am pretty aware of the various land bridge/ships theories, its just that the last I heard the land bridge was all up in a flaming debate, and no one has conclusively proved the ship one (I think someone here tried to build a ship that could have done it and failed).

My referance to the Navajo being "immigrants" did not refer to them coming from across the ocean; rather, if I remember correctly they simply moved into their current area "recently" with respect to some other groups. THe Hopi speak a variant on ancient Aztec, and its speculated that they may have "immigrated" from farther South as well. Why is anyone''s guess--its not exactly easy land to live on.

 

[perry]

Monarch:

Which native American Tribe:

I''m part Potawatomi; from the Milwaukee area.

Back in the late 60''s early 70''s during the "reawakening" of the indian cultures I suspose I could have joined the tribe (and I know people who did).

However, I chose the more normal white american lifestyle.

Can''t say I''m disappointed either. I''m glad that the tribe found financial stabiltiy with the indian gamling here in Wisconsin.

As far as how the indians actually got here 5 - 10 thousand years ago (or whenever). I do not much worry about it. They did. That is all that matters.

One lesson to always remember when dealing with "theories" on how people got where they did. Study the "Kon Tiki" voyages - and find out how wrong some of Thor Heyerdahl theories were about where and in what direction people immegrated (later genitic testing proved that Thor had it totally wrong on the original "kon Tiki" voyage and theory of how populations spread - dispite his ability to build a balsa wood raft and sail it to Polynesia). Some of his other work has stood the test of time though.

I remember reading the book "Kon Tiki" as a kid and seeing the movie. It was great stuff. To bad the base theory turned out to be wrong. Note, the following link is only a start: They don''t talk much on this site about how the theory behind the original "Kon Tiki" voyage was later proved false via genetic testing.

www.kon-tiki.no/Expeditions/

Perry

 

[monarch64]

Date: 5/1/2006 10:46:51 PM
Author: rainbowtrout

Date: 5/1/2006 10:38:19 PM
Author: monarch64

Date: 5/1/2006 10:29:33 PM

Author: monarch64

Date: 5/1/2006 5:35:56 PM

Author: rainbowtrout

this is something I would keep up with if I had more time, so could you fill me in on what you read/where and such? Last I heard the land bridge theory was hotly contested but not dead per se.

Rainbow, there are several different theories on how native Americans came to be ''native'' to the continents of North and South America. If you google ''indigineous americans'' or some such search parameter, they''ll come up. Wikipedia has a pretty easy to follow synopsis of said theories (I''m not saying you need ''easy to follow'', don''t get me wrong here.) There is the land bridge theory, as well as several others involving ships, etc. Some anthropologists have even gone so far as to try to study the contents of stomachs of petrified corpses'' in an attempt to determine their geographic origins. It is quite a hot debate. I asked Sunkist earlier which source she''d obtained the theory of natives sailing here and settling on their own...not to start a debate, but in hopes that someone could teach me something. I am of native American heritage and am always looking for further education on the subject.

ETA: most theorists seem to state that native Americans did settle the Americas about 16,000 years ago....obviously many, many years before Europeans ''discovered'' them...

Hi monarch,
thanks for the info--I am pretty aware of the various land bridge/ships theories, its just that the last I heard the land bridge was all up in a flaming debate, and no one has conclusively proved the ship one (I think someone here tried to build a ship that could have done it and failed).

My referance to the Navajo being ''immigrants'' did not refer to them coming from across the ocean; rather, if I remember correctly they simply moved into their current area ''recently'' with respect to some other groups. THe Hopi speak a variant on ancient Aztec, and its speculated that they may have ''immigrated'' from farther South as well. Why is anyone''s guess--its not exactly easy land to live on.

Hi Rainbow, as far as the other theories, nothing has been proven completely, and probably never will. It''s been a source of debate for a while now. I''m thinking (just my opinion) that many natives migrated north from South America, Mexico, etc. by foot... the Inuits (Alaskan Indians) and other tribes who settled in Canada and the NW as we now know it may have migrated on foot over the hotly disputed land bridge. Who knows? I''ll never give in to the idea that one day "Indians" just came over on a boat. That''s all I''m saying.

 

[movie zombie]

Starting on page 40, May/June 2006 "Archaeology", a publication of the Archeological Institute of America has an article covering all the theories. Easy to read, nontechnical. a brief and not nearly as detailed or interesting overview of the article can be found here:

http://www.archaeology.org/0605/abstracts/america.html

however, this overview does not take into account other information discussed in the article.

again, i suggest reading if you haven''t read it already: Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies by Jared Diamond. DNA, agriculture, linguistics, and more all combined to show migration patterns and societal evolutions.

but i''m not sure either will provide much informaton regarding legal/illegal immigration but the book does provide some food for thought regarding migration motivators even in this day and age.

movie zombie

 

[monarch64]

Perry,

I have some background on both my paternal and maternal sides. My paternal great grandmother was full Cherokee, and my paternal grandfather was half Choctaw. Not such an unusual mix, from what I understand. I was also born to a Southern state bred father, who''s relatives didn''t really want it known that I had "Indian" blood. This has tended to make geneological research within my family a bit difficult, so I don''t have all the details. Fortunately, I have a yankee mom (born and bred in WI, as nosy as can be)who''s tried to wrangle all those details for years, and most of my father''s family is very upset by that! She descended from Norwegian folk who also mixed with French Indians from Quebec (that she knows for sure), so there is a whole blend going on. I''m just a big mutt, I guess!

As far as identifying with any certain tribe, well, I''m not really sure I should ever try, or that I would want to. I''ve never "used" my heritage for anything--I mark off the "caucasian" box on most everything. I know you had to be 1/8th to be a minority native American in college, and since I wasn''t completely sure I wasn''t more than a 16th I didn''t use it.

Have you read anything by the novelist James Alexander Thom? He writes phenomenally great works of fiction based on history about native Americans. He actually lives in Bloomington, IN, about 30 min. north of where I grew up, with his full-blooded Indian wife (can''t remember which tribe) Storm-something, without electricity or running water. He has some degrees, a PH.D in something...all of which are beside the point--he is just a phenomenal writer and I''ve gained a lot of insight as to the differences in what the government wants its young people to know vs. what really happened.

I will check out the website you posted--thanks!

Date: 5/1/2006 10:50:44 PM
Author: perry
Monarch:

Which native American Tribe:

I''m part Potawatomi; from the Milwaukee area.

Back in the late 60''s early 70''s during the ''reawakening'' of the indian cultures I suspose I could have joined the tribe (and I know people who did).

However, I chose the more normal white american lifestyle.

Can''t say I''m disappointed either. I''m glad that the tribe found financial stabiltiy with the indian gamling here in Wisconsin.

As far as how the indians actually got here 5 - 10 thousand years ago (or whenever). I do not much worry about it. They did. That is all that matters.

One lesson to always remember when dealing with ''theories'' on how people got where they did. Study the ''Kon Tiki'' voyages - and find out how wrong some of Thor Heyerdahl theories were about where and in what direction people immegrated (later genitic testing proved that Thor had it totally wrong on the original ''kon Tiki'' voyage and theory of how populations spread - dispite his ability to build a balsa wood raft and sail it to Polynesia). Some of his other work has stood the test of time though.

I remember reading the book ''Kon Tiki'' as a kid and seeing the movie. It was great stuff. To bad the base theory turned out to be wrong. Note, the following link is only a start: They don''t talk much on this site about how the theory behind the original ''Kon Tiki'' voyage was later proved false via genetic testing.

www.kon-tiki.no/Expeditions/

Perry

 

[tawn]

I''ve heard the "bridge" theory as well, and I wonder what (if they do) teach in schools about ithe subject these days?

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 5/1/2006 7:29:12 PM
Author: tawn



I''m from Canada, and my whole family still lives there. The wages there (at least on the West Coast where my family are) are significantly higher (almost double for school teachers and blue collar trade workers) than anywhere I know of in the USA, and you also don''t see the poverty that seems so prevalent here. It''s a much smaller country, so it''s like comparing apples to oranges.

Great discussion by the way!!

i''m glad to know that west coast canadian school teachers and bllue collar trade workers are well paid! however, the canadians i know and have worked with are white collar workers [patent attornies], who came here strictly for the $$$. in one case i know, the husband is a canadian teaching at a well known california university and his wife is a patent attorney. both have no desire to return to canada even though both their families still reside there: reasons given when asked were $$$ and weather.

also, other white collar friends in toronto....not as high level as an attorney....are not as well paid as similar workers doing similar jobs here. i do see poverty in toronto, but that is pretty par for the course these days in a big city.

love and/or money are certainly migratory motivators!

and it is, in fact, a great discussion!

movie zombie

 

[rainbowtrout]

MZ: my mom has Guns, Germs and Steel and has been bugging me to read it. When I have some time this summer I''m going to try to tackle it.

 

[rubydick]

Date: 4/29/2006 9:58:04 PM
Author: MINE!!
Hmmm.... I didn;t post cause I know what I am going to say will heat some things up here. I think that tthere is a difference between immagrating and enter a country illegally. My husband is here legally, he came here legally, he filed for his paper legally and he pays taxes.. legally. He is a guest in this country and acts accordingly. You want to be here legally.. enter legally.

Gotta love this. I''m here legal, my mate is, too. Guests. Gotta obey those laws.

Sorry, but anybody here in Amerika with any pale skin is an illegal. Get it?

MINE! I''m sorry. Don''t mean to be so sarcastic. Fact is, no matter where we come from, no matter where we are born, no matter where we currently reside, we are all immigrants.

I''ve been busted. I''ve been deported. It''s not a good feeling. Perhaps if America started busting those who trace their roots to the founding fathers, then all Americans might remember what it''s really like to be an immigrant.

In the end, I consider myself to be only one thing. Human. This is my planet, something which I share with every other human now alive. And when some pol tries to tell me a particular piece is off-limits, all I can do is laugh and feel pity. Throw me in jail, send me to Gitmo, but this fact will never change: I am alive. And I know. Yes, I know. No matter what you do to me, I still know. You can repress me, you can torture me, you can do what you like. No matter. I sitll know. And that will be your downfall. Even if you kill me.

 

[Dancing Fire]

what also piss me off

is these pregnant women sneaks across the border to give birth (now this child is a instant citizen) guess who pays their medical bill?

if my wife were to give birth,it would probably cost us at least $8k

 

[sunkist]

Date: 5/2/2006 2:04:20 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
what also piss me off

is these pregnant women sneaks across the border to give birth (now this child is a instant citizen) guess who pays their medical bill?

if my wife were to give birth,it would probably cost us at least $8k

Ya, I think that''s one law that should be done away with. What''s the point of it? As it is, it encourages more people to sneak over here to have babies. Cause once that baby is born, the whole family can come over! And that''s just wrong.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/2/2006 2:13:16 AM
Author: sunkist

Date: 5/2/2006 2:04:20 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
what also piss me off

is these pregnant women sneaks across the border to give birth (now this child is a instant citizen) guess who pays their medical bill?

if my wife were to give birth,it would probably cost us at least $8k

Ya, I think that''s one law that should be done away with. What''s the point of it? As it is, it encourages more people to sneak over here to have babies. Cause once that baby is born, the whole family can come over! And that''s just wrong.

no....i think the child must be at least 18 yrs old before he/she can submit an application for the parents to come over.

 

[tawn]

Date: 5/1/2006 11:31:22 PM
Author: movie zombie

Date: 5/1/2006 7:29:12 PM
Author: tawn




I''m from Canada, and my whole family still lives there. The wages there (at least on the West Coast where my family are) are significantly higher (almost double for school teachers and blue collar trade workers) than anywhere I know of in the USA, and you also don''t see the poverty that seems so prevalent here. It''s a much smaller country, so it''s like comparing apples to oranges.

Great discussion by the way!!

i''m glad to know that west coast canadian school teachers and bllue collar trade workers are well paid! however, the canadians i know and have worked with are white collar workers [patent attornies], who came here strictly for the $$$. in one case i know, the husband is a canadian teaching at a well known california university and his wife is a patent attorney. both have no desire to return to canada even though both their families still reside there: reasons given when asked were $$$ and weather.

also, other white collar friends in toronto....not as high level as an attorney....are not as well paid as similar workers doing similar jobs here. i do see poverty in toronto, but that is pretty par for the course these days in a big city.

love and/or money are certainly migratory motivators!

and it is, in fact, a great discussion!

movie zombie

I had to laugh when you said Attorneys make more money in the US, and how true that it would be one of the professions that isn''t quite as popular in Canada as it is here! It''s so fricken hard to sue anyone in Canada for anything...I was amazed when I came to the States and everyone was suing everyone for everything. People don''t have a lawyer on their speed dial in Canada like they do here! Yet...but I see it happening soon!

Our friend is a Dr. and makes some serious bank, as well as another couple who are both pharmacists and make zillions, which they should after all of those years of school!

All in all, life seems simpler there, and I''m from the Beautiful Okanogan Valley where the weather is gorgeous and the winters are mile! Beautiful lakes! Seriously, one of the best vacation spots for the summer! My husband and I would love to live there, but his work is here...and my FIL would pee his pants!

 

[movie zombie]

the same things are said for every wave of new immigrants....legal and illegal.

i read today that bush has broken US law 750 times already [ http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/04/30/bush_challenges_hundreds_of_laws/ ] and no one seems to be jumping up and down about it. but let some poor illegal immigrant enter the country and by god morality is shot to hell and the moral soapbox re right and wrong gets pulled out.

btw, i also heard on the radio that tysons, the biggest chicken packer in the country, closed 5 of its 9 plants on may 1. and they weren''t the only business to close or curtail. i''ll say it one more time: immigrants...legal and illegal...come for work. don''t give them jobs, and they won''t come. criminalize the employer and in the case of a corporation the board of directors for relying on illegals in the first place. all those nice fat dividend checks made out to stockholders are made possible by cheap labor. are we [as a nation] ready to wash our own cars, pay higher food prices, raise our own children rather than have nannies do it for us, raise our children to pick strawberries and work at tyson''s killing and packing chickens, give up those stock dividends, etc.? i don''t think so.

we [as a nation] want no borders when it comes to capitalism: trade is the high god of our society and we sign all those GATT, NAFTA, etc. treaties in the name of fair trade practices. we dump our government subsidised agricultural products into other countries undercutting local unsubsidised farmers who can''t compete and end up displaced and we say that''s just the way it is folks ''cause fair trade must be obeyed and its not our fault you can''t compete. fair trade has spoken. and the capitalists love it. but when a willing labor force wants to cross those same borders and move into the US work force, its a cry to close the border by many in the population. however, labor not just goods can be marketed and the capitalists love having cheap labor on this side of the border, too. you don''t see lots of big time corporations screaming that we close our borders to that cheap source of labor. it all seems too hypocritical to me.

"A report calls for the creation of a common economic and security community by the end of the decade. The document''s proposals would try to create a secure perimeter around the continent, while making it easier for people and goods to move across the shared borders." see: http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/03/14/tri-national-report050314.html also, from the white house: http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/03/14/tri-national-report050314.html
further, bush at the time of this meeting spoke of migration....not immigration. they are two different things. welcome to the North American Union composed of canada, united states, and mexico. all in the name of security, of course.

good night all.

movie zombie

 

[AGBF]

Date: 5/2/2006 2:04:20 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
what also piss me off

is these pregnant women sneaks across the border to give birth (now this child is a instant citizen)

It is sad to me that you feel this way...and even sadder that you have any allies in this xenophobic viewpoint. It wasn't so long since the birth (to an immigrant) of a child on American soil was celebrated by Hollywood. MZ will probably remember the name of the movie if I cannot. In it believe Olivia de Havilland played the immigrant, and it was inspiring. Was the movie, "Hold Back the Dawn"?

 

[LAJennifer]

I live in Los Angeles and yesterday was a great day for me. There was no congested traffic in either my morning or evening commute (and no road rage or crazy drivers cutting me off). I was able to work, shop, eat, etc. without any inconveniences. It was one of the easiest days I''ve ever had while living in LA. I am admittedly disappointed that our mayor skipped his meeting in Dallas to bring the NFL back to this city. I would buy season tickets for sure.

 

[movie zombie]

deb, i had to look this one up. HOLD BACK THE DAWN almost got ms olivia another oscar and indeed deals with immigration issues. http://imdb.com/title/tt0033722/board/nest/22473221

http://www.san.beck.org/MM/1941/HoldBacktheDawn.html "The social context distorting the motivations is the discrepancy between life and opportunity in Mexico and the USA." and indeed a baby is born on US soil.

does not have a dvd release but i''d certainly like to see it.

movie zombie

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/2/2006 1:55:00 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 5/2/2006 2:04:20 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
what also piss me off

is these pregnant women sneaks across the border to give birth (now this child is a instant citizen)

It is sad to me that you feel this way...and even sadder that you have any allies in this xenophobic viewpoint. It wasn't so long since the birth (to an immigrant) of a child on American soil was celebrated by Hollywood. MZ will probably remember the name of the movie if I cannot. In it believe Olivia de Havilland played the immigrant, and it was inspiring. Was the movie, 'Hold Back the Dawn'?

deb

i would much rather see these medical bill money spent on the elderly americans health care.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 5/2/2006 2:55:32 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
i would much rather see these medical bill money spent on the elderly americans health care.

That's where we differ. I would prefer to see both elderly Americans and pregnant women get health care and end the war in Iraq.