My Dream Ring: 8.1mm European Cut Diamond

[Dreamer_D]

Dreamer,
I am so happy for you! It is truly an exceptional stone. For some reason it reminds me of ocean, it looks like it reflects light "in waves", and the light moves from center to the edges of the stone. It gives an impression of constant movement.

Amazing find! I know i'm not the first one to say it, but if you decide to upgrade in the future, send me an email .

Inna what an interesting way of describing the stone! In person for me it combines the things I love most about RBs -- the arrows and precision patterning -- with the things I love most about old cuts -- open culet, chunky almost liquid looking scintillation, snowflake patterning around the perimeter. I feel very lucky to have found it and honestly do not see myself selling it -- what could be better for me?? But if I do I will add you to the list of people who want to buy it

Once I have it appraised and resized I will do some more photo shoots to try and capture its light play and patterning better. I am still getting to know this diamond. But I am so pleased so far. It is just so clean of inclusions and a nice color, and the optics are amazing. I wish I had an RB to compare it to, one equally well cut.

Actually, Charmy I will be seeing Demelza next week and we can use her 2.5ct MRB to compare with both of our european cuts! Will be really fun! I think hers is older than mine, and mine is closer to an MRB.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Can I make a special educational purposes request? Do you have any H&A modern RB handy? Can you do a side by side photo comparison?

I wish I had some large MRBs laying around! But I have photos of my former RB at about the same angle as the arrow show, and I can post that. Maybe some other comparisons too. I have a favourite place and way to take photos of diamonds and so many of the shots and lighting and angles will likely look the same!

Please please post! I don't think I can wait until next week.

If you want, you can send them to me and I will angel them and put them side by side.

 

[NKOTB]

Way to go, Coach! So glad you have found something you love, too! It is really, really beautiful!

 

[LJL]

I was off PS for a couple days and just saw this - and I died inside a little bit. How perfect is that stone? I dont have a lot of words, but that emoticon really sums it up.

So jealous ... will totally be calling for your help on RT in a couple weeks to help me find a stone thats half as beautiful as yours!

 

[stargurl78]

Inna what an interesting way of describing the stone! In person for me it combines the things I love most about RBs -- the arrows and precision patterning -- with the things I love most about old cuts -- open culet, chunky almost liquid looking scintillation, snowflake patterning around the perimeter. I feel very lucky to have found it and honestly do not see myself selling it -- what could be better for me?? But if I do I will add you to the list of people who want to buy it

Once I have it appraised and resized I will do some more photo shoots to try and capture its light play and patterning better. I am still getting to know this diamond. But I am so pleased so far. It is just so clean of inclusions and a nice color, and the optics are amazing. I wish I had an RB to compare it to, one equally well cut.

Actually, Charmy I will be seeing Demelza next week and we can use her 2.5ct MRB to compare with both of our european cuts! Will be really fun! I think hers is older than mine, and mine is closer to an MRB.

Go ahead and add me to that list too Although I will think you're crazy if you ever decide to sell that gorgeous rock!

 

[Andelain]

What a beautiful stone!


Why, oh why, wasn't I trolling ebay that day?

 

[junebug17]

junebug your lovely ring was a big motivator for me, I love this size.

Dreamer, thank you for the nice comment about my ring, it means a lot - and I agree, it's a great size! I'm pretty conservative and low-key, but man, there's just something about a large stone perched on the finger that's so lovely, and so much fun!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Dreamer said: "diamondseeker I can't imagine what would be a better one for me! I think my husband will send me to the funny farm if I ever wanted larger, but you never know! I'll keep you in mind as George's second owner Oh, and I was thinking -- if a three stone is what you are after then I think a smaller center IS the way to go. About 7mm with side stones would look really nice in terms of a balanced collection with your solitaire. Even 6.5mm with sides! Any bigger in the center and I think the three stone will just overpower your solitaire!"

I have some cz's here from my studs shopping days, and a 7mm center is exactly what I was thinking I would like for a 3 stone center! The only worry I have is whether that is large enough to really appreciate the facet pattern. I guess you would know the answer to that since you've had a H&A close to the size of mine and you've had an old cut about that size. I am just having difficulty figuring out how to end up with one round solitaire plus a transitional three stone ring when I currently own 2 modern rb's 7.45 to 7.6mm. I almost feel like selling everything and starting over, but I probably won't do anything that extreme. I need to sell or recut something, though! I am waiting to hear from Jon on the recut idea, but I am leaning towards thinking my current stone is bigger than I want for a 3 stone center.

I sincerely hope you never find a diamond more beautiful than George! To find a diamond of that quality in a finely made platinum setting is rare indeed.

 

[TravelingGal]

Inna what an interesting way of describing the stone! In person for me it combines the things I love most about RBs -- the arrows and precision patterning -- with the things I love most about old cuts -- open culet, chunky almost liquid looking scintillation, snowflake patterning around the perimeter. I feel very lucky to have found it and honestly do not see myself selling it -- what could be better for me?? But if I do I will add you to the list of people who want to buy it

Once I have it appraised and resized I will do some more photo shoots to try and capture its light play and patterning better. I am still getting to know this diamond. But I am so pleased so far. It is just so clean of inclusions and a nice color, and the optics are amazing. I wish I had an RB to compare it to, one equally well cut.

Actually, Charmy I will be seeing Demelza next week and we can use her 2.5ct MRB to compare with both of our european cuts! Will be really fun! I think hers is older than mine, and mine is closer to an MRB.

Go ahead and add me to that list too Although I will think you're crazy if you ever decide to sell that gorgeous rock!

LOL, I think you have some people who hope you go fickle pickle on this one Dreamer. I think they'll be waiting awhile!

I wonder since this is more of a chunky (or early?) MRB, if it has some "formula" like modern H&A's do. The photo I posted of the CAD where they use a computer generated image of the same faceting makes me think it's not uncommon. Not common, though, in the same way that H&A's these days are not common compared to the non ideal cuts out there, but that there were diamonds masterfully cut with similar proportions at the time. Maybe 1930's or 40's?

So hard to find just like second hand modern ideal cuts are hard to find, but out there. Hm....

 

[Dreamer_D]

First, before someone reports me for using this forum to sell something , let me say in no uncertain terms I am NOT selling this diamond and have no plans to ever sell this diamond! But its funny to joke since, of course, I may have a weensy bit of a reputation for changing my mind

The thing is, when you buy something on ebay you don't get 30 days to make up your mind, and you cant upgrade through your vendor if you do change your mind. I know a lot of people have done that when they have bought from fine PS vendors and changed their mind. If you buy on ebay and change your mind after the refund period, or if you must unset a diamond to really get a sense of its cut or other specs, then you can't return it, so you either hoard it or sell it (sooner or later it seems most get sold). Its a whole different kettle of fish trying to find an old cut on ebay than it is buying from a retailer. I think that is something people reading this thread and others should keep in mind, because I know theads like mine and others motivate people to go find their OWN dream stone as well. Its not a simple simon task. It took me a year of daily searches on ebay. On top of that, I had to be confident enough when I saw the ring I wanted to just buy it that second, not wait a few days hemming and hawing. I only had that confidence because of all the time I spent buying stones and learning about how photos translate into reality, and how to spot well cut stones or stones with issues. I trained my eyes. And got comfortable with ebay, too.

But really, I am a connoisseur of cut as someone once said, and as an appreciator of masterfully cut diamonds, this stone takes the cake. I am not saying that it is better in absolute terms than any of the other finely cut stones we see on PS every single day. But for me personally, of all the stones I have had the pleasure of owning in the past five years, this one is my favourite "flavour". And I have also never seen one like it in all my ebay surfing, and oogling JBEG and OWD. Demelza's is very close, but we both agree her stone has shorter lgf and some other subtle differences. Anyways, all of this is to say that I am Smeagol to this ring and it is my Preciousssssssssss.

Wait a few years and I will be a full on Golem.

 

[sushi]

OOO she (is george a she or he?!) is beautiful. If only stones could talk, I would love to hear George's wonderful life story! Can you imagine the life she has lead so far? It makes me think of Downtown Abbey or such, what a glamorous beauty!

How exciting! And Congratulations...

xoxo sushi

 

[Dreamer_D]

I was off PS for a couple days and just saw this - and I died inside a little bit. How perfect is that stone? I dont have a lot of words, but that emoticon really sums it up.

So jealous ... will totally be calling for your help on RT in a couple weeks to help me find a stone thats half as beautiful as yours!

I assume "died a little " is a good thing, like the French say?

And call away! I am happy to help!

 

[Dreamer_D]

junebug your lovely ring was a big motivator for me, I love this size.

Dreamer, thank you for the nice comment about my ring, it means a lot - and I agree, it's a great size! I'm pretty conservative and low-key, but man, there's just something about a large stone perched on the finger that's so lovely, and so much fun!

I agree, and at the risk of sounding like a ridiculously spoiled brat, I have so missed having a large diamond this past year! I tried to love other styles, but for me there is only one deliciously decadent way to go: Nice big diamond solitaire. Big enough that where I live, most people will think its fake

 

[TravelingGal]

First, before someone reports me for using this forum to sell something , let me say in no uncertain terms I am NOT selling this diamond and have no plans to ever sell this diamond! But its funny to joke since, of course, I may have a weensy bit of a reputation for changing my mind

The thing is, when you buy something on ebay you don't get 30 days to make up your mind, and you cant upgrade through your vendor if you do change your mind. I know a lot of people have done that when they have bought from fine PS vendors and changed their mind. If you buy on ebay and change your mind after the refund period, or if you must unset a diamond to really get a sense of its cut or other specs, then you can't return it, so you either hoard it or sell it (sooner or later it seems most get sold). Its a whole different kettle of fish trying to find an old cut on ebay than it is buying from a retailer. I think that is something people reading this thread and others should keep in mind, because I know theads like mine and others motivate people to go find their OWN dream stone as well. Its not a simple simon task. It took me a year of daily searches on ebay. On top of that, I had to be confident enough when I saw the ring I wanted to just buy it that second, not wait a few days hemming and hawing. I only had that confidence because of all the time I spent buying stones and learning about how photos translate into reality, and how to spot well cut stones or stones with issues. I trained my eyes. And got comfortable with ebay, too.

But really, I am a connoisseur of cut as someone once said, and as an appreciator of masterfully cut diamonds, this stone takes the cake. I am not saying that it is better in absolute terms than any of the other finely cut stones we see on PS every single day. But for me personally, of all the stones I have had the pleasure of owning in the past five years, this one is my favourite "flavour". And I have also never seen one like it in all my ebay surfing, and oogling JBEG and OWD. Demelza's is very close, but we both agree her stone has shorter lgf and some other subtle differences. Anyways, all of this is to say that I am Smeagol to this ring and it is my Preciousssssssssss.

Wait a few years and I will be a full on Golem.

Girl, don't put that sh*t in print, because a girl's always allowed to change her mind.

 

[Dreamer_D]

What a beautiful stone!


Why, oh why, wasn't I trolling ebay that day?

Oh, you can console yourself in your 1000 diamond Andelain!

Its funny, this ring was not described with the usualy terms: old european, old mine, miner cut etc etc. I found it because I was looking for "GIA" in the title or description, though it also would have showed up in a couple of my other daily searches for more general/obscure terms. The seller just called it an "old cut". I think that, along with the seller's rather high BIN, is the only reason it did not sell before I got it.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Dreamer said: "diamondseeker I can't imagine what would be a better one for me! I think my husband will send me to the funny farm if I ever wanted larger, but you never know! I'll keep you in mind as George's second owner Oh, and I was thinking -- if a three stone is what you are after then I think a smaller center IS the way to go. About 7mm with side stones would look really nice in terms of a balanced collection with your solitaire. Even 6.5mm with sides! Any bigger in the center and I think the three stone will just overpower your solitaire!"

I have some cz's here from my studs shopping days, and a 7mm center is exactly what I was thinking I would like for a 3 stone center! The only worry I have is whether that is large enough to really appreciate the facet pattern. I guess you would know the answer to that since you've had a H&A close to the size of mine and you've had an old cut about that size. I am just having difficulty figuring out how to end up with one round solitaire plus a transitional three stone ring when I currently own 2 modern rb's 7.45 to 7.6mm. I almost feel like selling everything and starting over, but I probably won't do anything that extreme. I need to sell or recut something, though! I am waiting to hear from Jon on the recut idea, but I am leaning towards thinking my current stone is bigger than I want for a 3 stone center.

I sincerely hope you never find a diamond more beautiful than George! To find a diamond of that quality in a finely made platinum setting is rare indeed.

I vote recut one into an AVR and value be darned, just do it and love it!

I don't know what I could find that would be better? I am not interested in larger, this is already bordering on tasteless given my social reality, and given my diamond priorities bigger is about the only thing I can imagine being better! haha Not interested in whiter, or cleaner... I suppose different beauty. But I don't plan to shell out this much money again at any point in the future so I am very unlikely to have anything different to compare with George. Nope, she is mine to keep.

 

[CharmyPoo]

I actually did find that auction as I was watching settings from that seller. But not savy enough and was scared by the BIN price.

I am secretly hoping that this diamond will be too huge for comfortable daily wear ... and it will magically end up on my finger. Me so evil.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I wonder since this is more of a chunky (or early?) MRB, if it has some "formula" like modern H&A's do. The photo I posted of the CAD where they use a computer generated image of the same faceting makes me think it's not uncommon. Not common, though, in the same way that H&A's these days are not common compared to the non ideal cuts out there, but that there were diamonds masterfully cut with similar proportions at the time. Maybe 1930's or 40's?

So hard to find just like second hand modern ideal cuts are hard to find, but out there. Hm....

From reading Al Gilbertson's book I think my stone is from the 1920s - 1940 at the latest, mostly because of the length of the lgf and the table being as small as it is. Of course, I am far from an expert on this stuff, its a huge topic -- history of diamond cuts. Mine seems to fit the bill for what he calls the "European Cut" or the "American Cut": crown and pavilion angles similar to an MRB, but a table smaller than MRB but larger than OEC, medium culet (though those are all over the place in that time period), and medium lgf. I think the length of the star facets also helps date a diamond, but I don't know what mine are. From his book there certainly were formulas back then for ideal cuts, but people seemed to differ in what that ideal formula was.

I was looking at my stone today and looking at those photos you posted and mine and wondering if my stone is not just a modern RB with shorter LGF and a culet? I mean, there is no real way to know I suppose Actually, seeing the girdle could help because it might show evidence of bruting, if it has never been repolished or faceted, which might help age the stone. I would need to see a sarin scan to see the nuances of the cut, and some day I will have just that done. I think I'll try and put together a couple comparisons with an MRB to see if I can spot all the differenced; its more than just LGF I think.

 

[Dreamer_D]

First, before someone reports me for using this forum to sell something , let me say in no uncertain terms I am NOT selling this diamond and have no plans to ever sell this diamond! But its funny to joke since, of course, I may have a weensy bit of a reputation for changing my mind

The thing is, when you buy something on ebay you don't get 30 days to make up your mind, and you cant upgrade through your vendor if you do change your mind. I know a lot of people have done that when they have bought from fine PS vendors and changed their mind. If you buy on ebay and change your mind after the refund period, or if you must unset a diamond to really get a sense of its cut or other specs, then you can't return it, so you either hoard it or sell it (sooner or later it seems most get sold). Its a whole different kettle of fish trying to find an old cut on ebay than it is buying from a retailer. I think that is something people reading this thread and others should keep in mind, because I know theads like mine and others motivate people to go find their OWN dream stone as well. Its not a simple simon task. It took me a year of daily searches on ebay. On top of that, I had to be confident enough when I saw the ring I wanted to just buy it that second, not wait a few days hemming and hawing. I only had that confidence because of all the time I spent buying stones and learning about how photos translate into reality, and how to spot well cut stones or stones with issues. I trained my eyes. And got comfortable with ebay, too.

But really, I am a connoisseur of cut as someone once said, and as an appreciator of masterfully cut diamonds, this stone takes the cake. I am not saying that it is better in absolute terms than any of the other finely cut stones we see on PS every single day. But for me personally, of all the stones I have had the pleasure of owning in the past five years, this one is my favourite "flavour". And I have also never seen one like it in all my ebay surfing, and oogling JBEG and OWD. Demelza's is very close, but we both agree her stone has shorter lgf and some other subtle differences. Anyways, all of this is to say that I am Smeagol to this ring and it is my Preciousssssssssss.

Wait a few years and I will be a full on Golem.

Girl, don't put that sh*t in print, because a girl's always allowed to change her mind.

haha! No, I am putting it in print. I give you permission to say "Wait, Dreamer, I thought you said...." if I ever do sell it

Charmy I learned my lesson: Social norms don't win out with me when it comes to what I love about diamonds. I did sell my 1.67 MRB in part because it felt too big (but mostly because I felt guilty about owning it when we had some debt; thats not a problem now ). But then a year later I missed that big old rock -- well, not THAT big old rock but A big old rock. So even if I feel strange wearing it I will ignore those feelings And, as I said before, its a family heirloom! hee hee...

 

[TravelingGal]

I wonder since this is more of a chunky (or early?) MRB, if it has some "formula" like modern H&A's do. The photo I posted of the CAD where they use a computer generated image of the same faceting makes me think it's not uncommon. Not common, though, in the same way that H&A's these days are not common compared to the non ideal cuts out there, but that there were diamonds masterfully cut with similar proportions at the time. Maybe 1930's or 40's?

So hard to find just like second hand modern ideal cuts are hard to find, but out there. Hm....

From reading Al Gilbertson's book I think my stone is from the 1920s - 1940 at the latest, mostly because of the length of the lgf and the table being as small as it is. Of course, I am far from an expert on this stuff, its a huge topic -- history of diamond cuts. Mine seems to fit the bill for what he calls the "European Cut" or the "American Cut": crown and pavilion angles similar to an MRB, but a table smaller than MRB but larger than OEC, medium culet (though those are all over the place in that time period), and medium lgf. I think the length of the star facets also helps date a diamond, but I don't know what mine are. From his book there certainly were formulas back then for ideal cuts, but people seemed to differ in what that ideal formula was.

I was looking at my stone today and looking at those photos you posted and mine and wondering if my stone is not just a modern RB with shorter LGF and a culet? I mean, there is no real way to know I suppose Actually, seeing the girdle could help because it might show evidence of bruting, if it has never been repolished or faceted, which might help age the stone. I would need to see a sarin scan to see the nuances of the cut, and some day I will have just that done. I think I'll try and put together a couple comparisons with an MRB to see if I can spot all the differenced; its more than just LGF I think.

Whatever is it, it's purdy. (my scientific expression for everything lovely. )

I know you love this stuff, so I'm sure you'll post more analysis, which is always interesting. I just thought it was interesting that my CAD looked like a dead ringer for your real ring!

It's actually fascinating stuff though. My brooch was dated as predeco...stones and brooch original. Which was interesting because a lot of people thought one stone was transitional. But it was cut with the same patterning as the other two...just on different angles. In just a couple of decades, cutting seemed to have come a long way.

 

[TravelingGal]

First, before someone reports me for using this forum to sell something , let me say in no uncertain terms I am NOT selling this diamond and have no plans to ever sell this diamond! But its funny to joke since, of course, I may have a weensy bit of a reputation for changing my mind

The thing is, when you buy something on ebay you don't get 30 days to make up your mind, and you cant upgrade through your vendor if you do change your mind. I know a lot of people have done that when they have bought from fine PS vendors and changed their mind. If you buy on ebay and change your mind after the refund period, or if you must unset a diamond to really get a sense of its cut or other specs, then you can't return it, so you either hoard it or sell it (sooner or later it seems most get sold). Its a whole different kettle of fish trying to find an old cut on ebay than it is buying from a retailer. I think that is something people reading this thread and others should keep in mind, because I know theads like mine and others motivate people to go find their OWN dream stone as well. Its not a simple simon task. It took me a year of daily searches on ebay. On top of that, I had to be confident enough when I saw the ring I wanted to just buy it that second, not wait a few days hemming and hawing. I only had that confidence because of all the time I spent buying stones and learning about how photos translate into reality, and how to spot well cut stones or stones with issues. I trained my eyes. And got comfortable with ebay, too.

But really, I am a connoisseur of cut as someone once said, and as an appreciator of masterfully cut diamonds, this stone takes the cake. I am not saying that it is better in absolute terms than any of the other finely cut stones we see on PS every single day. But for me personally, of all the stones I have had the pleasure of owning in the past five years, this one is my favourite "flavour". And I have also never seen one like it in all my ebay surfing, and oogling JBEG and OWD. Demelza's is very close, but we both agree her stone has shorter lgf and some other subtle differences. Anyways, all of this is to say that I am Smeagol to this ring and it is my Preciousssssssssss.

Wait a few years and I will be a full on Golem.

Girl, don't put that sh*t in print, because a girl's always allowed to change her mind.

haha! No, I am putting it in print. I give you permission to say "Wait, Dreamer, I thought you said...." if I ever do sell it

Charmy I learned my lesson: Social norms don't win out with me when it comes to what I love about diamonds. I did sell my 1.67 MRB in part because it felt too big (but mostly because I felt guilty about owning it when we had some debt; thats not a problem now ). But then a year later I missed that big old rock -- well, not THAT big old rock but A big old rock. So even if I feel strange wearing it I will ignore those feelings And, as I said before, its a family heirloom! hee hee...

 

[Andelain]

What a beautiful stone!


Why, oh why, wasn't I trolling ebay that day?

Oh, you can console yourself in your 1000 diamond Andelain!

Its funny, this ring was not described with the usualy terms: old european, old mine, miner cut etc etc. I found it because I was looking for "GIA" in the title or description, though it also would have showed up in a couple of my other daily searches for more general/obscure terms. The seller just called it an "old cut". I think that, along with the seller's rather high BIN, is the only reason it did not sell before I got it.

But wait, I'm not up to 1000 diamonds............ yet!



I can see why it was easily missed, and the pics weren't near like the ones you took. Still, you done great to spot such a beauty!

 

[Dreamer_D]

OK here is a comparison, George on the top and an H&A MRB on the bottom. They look very different to me. It can't all be the LGF can it?

George has a smaller table, which means with similar diameters a stone of George's proportions would need to have larger star facets or bezel facets or upper girdle facets, I can't tell which just looking at the pics. Because if the table is table up less of the area of the crown, other facets must be bigger to take up the space.

 

[Laila619]

OK here is a comparison, George on the top and an H&A MRB on the bottom. They look very different to me. It can't all be the LGF can it?

George has a smaller table, which means with similar diameters a stone of George's proportions would need to have larger star facets or bezel facets or upper girdle facets, I can't tell which just looking at the pics. Because if the table is table up less of the area of the crown, other facets must be bigger to take up the space.

Interesting! To me, the only real big difference is the LGF and the culet. I would say your old stone looks like it had 77 or 78% LGF, and George must be like 65 or maybe 70 LGF? This simulated example from GOG.com is 73%. Looks similar, right? In any case, it sure is a nice cut!

 

[Laila619]

Here's a great pic from Karl. He says in this image, the stones have the same exact crown/pav angles and table size. The only thing changed is the LGF:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-is-transitional-cut.105513/

 

[Laila619]

Another cool one for you, Dreamer, because I am a diamond nerd.

You should see a lot of fire in George, especially compared to a MRB!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Thanks Laila! I had just stumbled on those same images from Karl! I feel like mine sure looks a lot like the images labelled "transitional" in those pics you posted, with the lgf in the range of 65-70.

And if anyone is wondering where "George" came from, its from this Looney Tunes comic, which is based on "Of Mice and Men" I think http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JlVqfC8-UI

 

[Polished]

I'm as impressed by the process of procuring George as I am by beauty of the diamond. We should start up a lending library here on Pricescope (a bit like collections from art galleries get sent for exhibitions to overseas galleries). I don't need to own George but it would be lovely to spend some time in her company and look at all the ways Dreamer described how she enjoys her diamond. I'd send her back, I'm sure I would, I'm pretty, very sure I would.

 

[InnaR]

OK here is a comparison, George on the top and an H&A MRB on the bottom. They look very different to me. It can't all be the LGF can it?

George has a smaller table, which means with similar diameters a stone of George's proportions would need to have larger star facets or bezel facets or upper girdle facets, I can't tell which just looking at the pics. Because if the table is table up less of the area of the crown, other facets must be bigger to take up the space.

Dreamer,
I want to add this example to your comparison. It looks like a missing step in between two stones you posted.

It is a classic FIC from James Allen (I personally love it)

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS1-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1348208.asp

 

[derbygal]

Love the ring and love that you are calling her George. Great reference for cartoon lovers!