mrssalvo
Super_Ideal_Rock
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- Jan 3, 2005
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Not a positive experience thus far...
- Thread starter hot4teacher
- Start date
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For what it''s worth I can see a problem from these picture either, so maybe they woulnd''t have helped even if seen in time.
I could definitely see the issues with hickerchicks in the other thread - on the finger and profile views at least.
It doesn''t look like finger & profile photos are part of the standard set of pics that are sent out for approval though - maybe they should be since it definitely looks like they can help detect problems early, at least in some cases.
I could definitely see the issues with hickerchicks in the other thread - on the finger and profile views at least.
It doesn''t look like finger & profile photos are part of the standard set of pics that are sent out for approval though - maybe they should be since it definitely looks like they can help detect problems early, at least in some cases.
JohnQuixote
Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2004
- Messages
- 5,212
Many of you are generous with your comments about me.I truly thank you, but I get to enjoy a relationship with you that other wonderful people in the company don’t, since one of my duties is to participate in education initiatives here.This allows me regular access to your comments (and it’s cool that I get to know you).
I think the observations about differing personalities are dead-on.Some people may not mix well together, but it’s not a good excuse.More than anything, I regret hearing about situations where sensitivity or a simple “we’re here for you” was all that was needed to demonstrate care for clients.We love love love our clients.We would literally not be here without you all - and courtesy and concern costs nothing to give.
As for production; of course our aim is for every piece to go out perfectly and knock your socks off, but no company can achieve that 100% of the time so long as we’re human.In fact, when a concern arises that’s when it’s most important to BE human.
I think the observations about differing personalities are dead-on.Some people may not mix well together, but it’s not a good excuse.More than anything, I regret hearing about situations where sensitivity or a simple “we’re here for you” was all that was needed to demonstrate care for clients.We love love love our clients.We would literally not be here without you all - and courtesy and concern costs nothing to give.
As for production; of course our aim is for every piece to go out perfectly and knock your socks off, but no company can achieve that 100% of the time so long as we’re human.In fact, when a concern arises that’s when it’s most important to BE human.
luckystar112
Ideal_Rock
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- Jan 8, 2007
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- 3,962
KtIceRN
Brilliant_Rock
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2006
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- 1,320
I just wanted to say that I really truly believe that WF does care about their customers.
When I chipped my ering stone that I had originally bought from WF in 2004,I posted a thread about the chip cause I needed support from my fellow PSer''s. Well within just a few hours I had received an email from from JohnQ telling me how sorry he was and he included all the info on my stone for the insurance company just incase I didn''t have it. Just a while after that I got one from Lesley who is my rep. From there on John and Lesley helped me through the process of replacing my stone. I really feel that they care about me and want me to be happy.
Point being that I am sure they make many rings that never get posted on PS from lurkers and just people who stumble on their website. So I believe that we are seeing only a fraction of that things that they send out. They are human and will make mistakes. I could see the problems in hikerchicks ring but not in this one. So although I do agree that teacher should have gotten the chance to approve the final pics, I don''t think she would have seen the problem till she got the ring IRL.
WF has great customer service and will fix this problem and I am sure that they are learning everyday from what we say on this board either good or bad. I think that they will learn from the feedback about the reps and how customers feel they were treated. They will continue to improve in all that they do, and I for one will continue to recommend them.
When I chipped my ering stone that I had originally bought from WF in 2004,I posted a thread about the chip cause I needed support from my fellow PSer''s. Well within just a few hours I had received an email from from JohnQ telling me how sorry he was and he included all the info on my stone for the insurance company just incase I didn''t have it. Just a while after that I got one from Lesley who is my rep. From there on John and Lesley helped me through the process of replacing my stone. I really feel that they care about me and want me to be happy.
Point being that I am sure they make many rings that never get posted on PS from lurkers and just people who stumble on their website. So I believe that we are seeing only a fraction of that things that they send out. They are human and will make mistakes. I could see the problems in hikerchicks ring but not in this one. So although I do agree that teacher should have gotten the chance to approve the final pics, I don''t think she would have seen the problem till she got the ring IRL.
WF has great customer service and will fix this problem and I am sure that they are learning everyday from what we say on this board either good or bad. I think that they will learn from the feedback about the reps and how customers feel they were treated. They will continue to improve in all that they do, and I for one will continue to recommend them.
kcoursolle
Super_Ideal_Rock
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- Jan 21, 2006
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- 10,612
taking_the_plunge
Rough_Rock
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2007
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- 30
Having just recently ordered a stone and custom ring through WF, you can imagine I''m reading this thread with some trepidation. I can say that my experience to date has been good. The sales rep I''ve been dealing with has been quite patient with all of my questions(and trust me, there were a lot) and has followed up in a timely fashion with any e-mails I''ve sent. Additionally, I had several questions about the wax model and how it related to the photos of the custom ring I was having created and the rep assured me that the finished product would look just like my pictures. For obvious reasons, the wax model won''t look exactly like the pictures, but I highlighted my main concerns and the rep assured me they would be taken care of, especially since some thing aren''t possible with wax as the material.
I will say that as a result of this thread, I sent a confirmation email ensuring that photos would be sent during the process and prior to shipment of the ring.
Ordering a custom ring over the internet with only photos certainly requires a leap of faith in some regards, but I can say that at this point, WF has done their best to answer my questions and concernts. I''ll be sure to keep you all updated and post the final product when it arrives.
One other point, of all the online vendors I dealt with, WF seemed the least "pushy" in terms of pressing a sale. My experience with several vendors felt like "used car sales", trying to press me into a decision. WF seemed more content with providing me all the information I needed to make an informed decision.
In the end, keeping the feedback objective will help both the consumers on this site and WF.
Good luck with your ring.
I will say that as a result of this thread, I sent a confirmation email ensuring that photos would be sent during the process and prior to shipment of the ring.
Ordering a custom ring over the internet with only photos certainly requires a leap of faith in some regards, but I can say that at this point, WF has done their best to answer my questions and concernts. I''ll be sure to keep you all updated and post the final product when it arrives.
One other point, of all the online vendors I dealt with, WF seemed the least "pushy" in terms of pressing a sale. My experience with several vendors felt like "used car sales", trying to press me into a decision. WF seemed more content with providing me all the information I needed to make an informed decision.
In the end, keeping the feedback objective will help both the consumers on this site and WF.
Good luck with your ring.
pricescope
Ideal_Rock
- Joined
- Dec 31, 1999
- Messages
- 8,266
Sorry but it''s not how it goes here rockzilla and mrssalvo, vendors have many restrictions on the forums but posting their side of the story including pictures is just not one of them. Those posters who are not in agreement with openness from all sides simply should not start their threads.Date: 2/8/2007 1:30:06 PM
Author: mrssalvo
i agree
mrssalvo
Super_Ideal_Rock
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- Jan 3, 2005
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- 19,132
Date: 2/8/2007 2:08:04 PM
Author: Pricescope
Sorry but it''s not how it goes here rockzilla and mrssalvo, vendors have many restrictions on the forums but posting their side of the story including pictures is just not one of them. Those posters who are not in agreement with openness from all sides simply should not start their threads.Date: 2/8/2007 1:30:06 PM
Author: mrssalvo
i agree
fair enough. I was thinking of it more from the side of, what if the ring was still a secret or something and now pics are up for all, included the future mrs. to see. But I see your point and it''s the risk a poster takes when bringing up an issue.
If it makes you feel any better (and it probably won't), we purchased a ring from Tiffany that had a crooked prong/basket. We took it to a different store than we bought it (since we were overseas) and they told us that it shouldn't have been sold to us like that. They sent it to their local jeweller who also said that it was crooked. They were really nice and suggested that we speak to the store we bought it from.
When we called the store we bought it from they said that they wouldn't have sold it like that and that we must have bent it. They also insisted that this was the case even though it was at the other store.
It had to be sent to New York and the estimated time for repair was 4 - 6 weeks (or 3 months outside US!). We were told they would call us to talk about it before they repaired it. Well about 5 - 6 weeks later the ring turned up by post with the diamond in a new setting and the empty old setting too. It seems that all companies make mistakes.
When we called the store we bought it from they said that they wouldn't have sold it like that and that we must have bent it. They also insisted that this was the case even though it was at the other store.
It had to be sent to New York and the estimated time for repair was 4 - 6 weeks (or 3 months outside US!). We were told they would call us to talk about it before they repaired it. Well about 5 - 6 weeks later the ring turned up by post with the diamond in a new setting and the empty old setting too. It seems that all companies make mistakes.
kkal474
Rough_Rock
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2006
- Messages
- 45
I haven''t posted much on this forum but it is a direct result of this forum that I too had a custom wedding band made by Whiteflash and dealt with Bob Hoskins exclusively and I personally would not do it again. I have grown to like my wedding band but it is not what it was meant to be. I Throughout the process I voiced multiple concerns regarding that first the wax photos and then the cast photos did not look like I wanted them too. He even had a picture of a ring that had the feature I desired. He repeatedly told me to trust him and that it would all turn out like I wanted it to. Well, it didn''t and my ring is not how I wanted it to be. Unfortunately I got the impression from Bob when I spoke with him after receiving the ring that there was nothing I could do and it had to be the way it was for security reasons. This was never mentioned throughout the course of the design process. If it had I might have been able to make adjustments. I did not realize that I could have sent it back to be remade until I spoke with one of their customer service guys who was following up on the process and told me that I would have had recourse were I to have done it earlier (the 10 day period was up). Overall I was not particularly happy with the process and would sincerely hesitate to do it again. Maybe someday I will have the chance to have my ring remade as it should have been.
I''m sorry to hear that some of you have had problems when dealing with Bob at Whiteflash. I have used him twice for purchases and couldn''t have been more pleased with the experience. Like others have said, I guess some people click and others don''t. I had a custom pair of earrings made by Whiteflash last year and used Leslie. We didn''t click, but the earrings are perfect. Just different personalities. Hope everything works out well for you guys....
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2006
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Cehrabehra
Super_Ideal_Rock
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- Jun 29, 2006
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- 11,071
john, from a consumer point of view I must say I disagree with this policy - if a person doesn''t know exactly when their ring will be done and doesn''t check their email every day - they could miss an important opportunity to approve a ring before it is sent whether they''re in this country or not. I think that if you kept it a day, two, three, four, a week - whatever number of days necessary to be sure there was a "we''re sending it today" agreement - and if you can''t get them by email, there''s always the phone. This default assumption of "go ahead" is the biggest red flag I faced in deciding to not go with whiteflash. I would still recommend you, but I don''t agree with the above policy.
Maisie
Super_Ideal_Rock
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- Dec 30, 2006
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aljdewey
Ideal_Rock
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- Nov 25, 2002
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Actually, that shouldn''t send up red flags right away. Maybe I can shed some light, since Mara and I have visited there and actually seen their process.
The staff at WF doesn''t all reside in the same building. The production team works in a secure building with many other jewelry tenants.....secure building with security guards up front. Think Ft. Knox....and with good reason.
The sales reps...the folks we all speak with on the phone...they don''t work in the same building. They work at another building that''s approximately a 10-minute drive away from the production facility. This is one reason why the sales rep doesn''t see the finished piece himself.
Another reason is this: the sales reps aren''t quality control staff. WF has folks who do that specifically, and they are responsible for inspecting pieces. On the day we visited last year, we saw several pieces being checked by not one but two different folks there. Of course, that doesn''t mean that the process cannot still be subject to human error....of course it can, for any vendor. It''s inevitable that folks will make mistakes from time to time, being human.
Mistakes don''t always mean someone "skipped" the step or didn''t inspect at all; more often, it means they just missed in observing something they should have noted. A comparable analogy: proofreading. I may proofread a page and fail to notice that it contains a typo. The fact that I missed a typo doesn''t mean I didn''t do the proofreading at all...only that I missed something that I should have noticed.
I know it''s disappointing that your ring wasn''t all you expected it to be right from the start; it''s an emotional purchase to be sure. But I hope knowing the process at least makes you feel better that you likely weren''t just skipped over or neglected...no one wants to feel as though their business isn''t important.
Actually they don''t have access to look right at them. I ordered a ring from them a few days ago and over the time I was dealing with my sales rep I found out that she couldn''t just go right in and look at them. Luckily they were very accomadating to the point that WF set up a private chat on the pricesope site with brian and he personally showed me the diamonds I had narrowed my search down to and helped me make a decision on both that and the setting. I just picked up the ring a few hours ago and had to wait for my girlfriend to get to sleep so I could take a look at it and it is wonderful
I do have to say after the couple posts on here about problems the last few weeks I was a little worried but I have had a great experience from start to finish with everyone I''ve dealt with at the company. Now the hardest part of all of it is waiting like another week and a half until plan to give it to her
Ellen
Super_Ideal_Rock
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- Jan 13, 2006
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- 24,433
hikerchick
Brilliant_Rock
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2006
- Messages
- 804
Thank you for the explaination Al . . . that explains why he didn''t see it personally but it furthers mystyfies me that he would so rudely and adamantly refuse to hear that there might have been something wrong with the ring. But atleast it explains why he didn''t see it himself.Date: 2/8/2007 8:03:28 PM
Author: aljdewey
Actually, that shouldn''t send up red flags right away. Maybe I can shed some light, since Mara and I have visited there and actually seen their process.
The staff at WF doesn''t all reside in the same building. The production team works in a secure building with many other jewelry tenants.....secure building with security guards up front. Think Ft. Knox....and with good reason.The actual bench staff....the folks who do the setting, work on lower floors in that building, and the production staff work on a higher floor in that same building.
The sales reps...the folks we all speak with on the phone...they don''t work in the same building. They work at another building that''s approximately a 10-minute drive away from the production facility. This is one reason why the sales rep doesn''t see the finished piece himself.
Another reason is this: the sales reps aren''t quality control staff. WF has folks who do that specifically, and they are responsible for inspecting pieces. On the day we visited last year, we saw several pieces being checked by not one but two different folks there. Of course, that doesn''t mean that the process cannot still be subject to human error....of course it can, for any vendor. It''s inevitable that folks will make mistakes from time to time, being human.
Mistakes don''t always mean someone ''skipped'' the step or didn''t inspect at all; more often, it means they just missed in observing something they should have noted. A comparable analogy: proofreading. I may proofread a page and fail to notice that it contains a typo. The fact that I missed a typo doesn''t mean I didn''t do the proofreading at all...only that I missed something that I should have noticed.
I know it''s disappointing that your ring wasn''t all you expected it to be right from the start; it''s an emotional purchase to be sure. But I hope knowing the process at least makes you feel better that you likely weren''t just skipped over or neglected...no one wants to feel as though their business isn''t important.
ezwinner701
Rough_Rock
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2006
- Messages
- 52
Hot4teacher,
It happened to me as well with my ring. I was told I would get a picture first, then it would be shipped, but it was shipped and i HAD to ask for the picture. the ring is lovely and we have no problem with it, but whiteflash really needs to be more careful with this procedure and their email system. Emails should be treated with a higher priority as loss emails might mean alot of loss revenue for them as well. and a over sensative spam software is not a good excuse for it, it should be addressed promptly.
It happened to me as well with my ring. I was told I would get a picture first, then it would be shipped, but it was shipped and i HAD to ask for the picture. the ring is lovely and we have no problem with it, but whiteflash really needs to be more careful with this procedure and their email system. Emails should be treated with a higher priority as loss emails might mean alot of loss revenue for them as well. and a over sensative spam software is not a good excuse for it, it should be addressed promptly.
Officers girl
Shiny_Rock
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2007
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- 218
hot4teacher
Rough_Rock
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2006
- Messages
- 32
Ohayo Gozaimasu! (Good Morning!)
I did receive an email from John today. I do have a better feeling measures will be taken to correct the situation...so that''s a plus.
I''m trying my best to get insurance on the stone/ring as it is being sent back and want to make sure I cover all of my bases should something happen during transit.
(Off topic, but does anyone have a Chubb agent that I can apply for insurance over the ''net? I''ve tried all the Japanese Chubb agents here but they don''t offer that coverage anymore...).
Thank you all for the kind support.
I''ll keep you updated on how things are going!
Dana
I did receive an email from John today. I do have a better feeling measures will be taken to correct the situation...so that''s a plus.
I''m trying my best to get insurance on the stone/ring as it is being sent back and want to make sure I cover all of my bases should something happen during transit.
(Off topic, but does anyone have a Chubb agent that I can apply for insurance over the ''net? I''ve tried all the Japanese Chubb agents here but they don''t offer that coverage anymore...).
Thank you all for the kind support.
I''ll keep you updated on how things are going!
Dana
hot4teacher
Rough_Rock
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2006
- Messages
- 32
On the bright side, John was able to post pictures (the second set) that I never knew about!Date: 2/8/2007 2:08:04 PM
Author: Pricescope
Sorry but it''s not how it goes here rockzilla and mrssalvo, vendors have many restrictions on the forums but posting their side of the story including pictures is just not one of them. Those posters who are not in agreement with openness from all sides simply should not start their threads.Date: 2/8/2007 1:30:06 PM
Author: mrssalvo
i agree
hot4teacher
Rough_Rock
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2006
- Messages
- 32
BrianTheCutter
Shiny_Rock
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2002
- Messages
- 146
We want to thank and acknowledge those who have participated here. The strength of Pricescope is that it allows people to express opinions. Some we agree with and others we do not.
We owe many thanks to the members of this forum for the reputation we enjoy. We are one of the largest online manufacturers of custom jewelry in the world and without your feedback we would not be where we are. There is a reason our company is highly recommended: We’ve operated for more than seven years and over time less than 1% of our daily production has resulted in customer concerns (how would we be measured in the real world with this success rate?). This is no easy task. Unfortunately that does not make it right for customers who fall in the other position, but in those cases we hope to create trust through commitment and our willingness to help them.
There are different personalities on a team. Bob has great expertise but a personality which some like and others do not. There are people who do not mix so well with me either. We apologize if any one of us fails to convey the spirit of the company in an interaction. Hopefully it will not hinder our goals to provide you with quality products or resolve concerns.
We are a company of balance. As I am committed to visual balance in my diamonds, the Whiteflash team is committed to handling concerns in a balanced and fair manner. We assess incidents individually, on their own merits. As lovers of quality our own expectation are considerable. Still, for perspective, here is an example of a ring made by a premier manufacturer. If this ring was put out by Whiteflash I believe we’d be raked over the forum coals due to inconsistencies seen in the photo (it’s happened before). This was scanned from a full-page ad featured in popular magazines as a national advertising campaign for its parent company. With the power to see everything at huge magnifications we must temper expectations with reality: Jewelry is an art and even the strongest companies create with human hands.
As internet e-tailers we realize our customers want their pieces quickly and examine them with greater scrutiny than other markets. To this end there are custom jewelers who refuse projects when they sense a client is very detail-oriented. We’ve always accepted that challenge. Those who criticize us are welcome to do so. It is an open forum.
We believe the measure of a company is not whether concerns arise, but how they are followed-up when they do.
There are two things Whiteflash will always do.
Continue our ongoing commitment to quality.
Work to make things right on an individual basis when there are reasonable concerns.
We owe many thanks to the members of this forum for the reputation we enjoy. We are one of the largest online manufacturers of custom jewelry in the world and without your feedback we would not be where we are. There is a reason our company is highly recommended: We’ve operated for more than seven years and over time less than 1% of our daily production has resulted in customer concerns (how would we be measured in the real world with this success rate?). This is no easy task. Unfortunately that does not make it right for customers who fall in the other position, but in those cases we hope to create trust through commitment and our willingness to help them.
There are different personalities on a team. Bob has great expertise but a personality which some like and others do not. There are people who do not mix so well with me either. We apologize if any one of us fails to convey the spirit of the company in an interaction. Hopefully it will not hinder our goals to provide you with quality products or resolve concerns.
We are a company of balance. As I am committed to visual balance in my diamonds, the Whiteflash team is committed to handling concerns in a balanced and fair manner. We assess incidents individually, on their own merits. As lovers of quality our own expectation are considerable. Still, for perspective, here is an example of a ring made by a premier manufacturer. If this ring was put out by Whiteflash I believe we’d be raked over the forum coals due to inconsistencies seen in the photo (it’s happened before). This was scanned from a full-page ad featured in popular magazines as a national advertising campaign for its parent company. With the power to see everything at huge magnifications we must temper expectations with reality: Jewelry is an art and even the strongest companies create with human hands.
As internet e-tailers we realize our customers want their pieces quickly and examine them with greater scrutiny than other markets. To this end there are custom jewelers who refuse projects when they sense a client is very detail-oriented. We’ve always accepted that challenge. Those who criticize us are welcome to do so. It is an open forum.
We believe the measure of a company is not whether concerns arise, but how they are followed-up when they do.
There are two things Whiteflash will always do.
Continue our ongoing commitment to quality.
Work to make things right on an individual basis when there are reasonable concerns.
Thanks for taking the time to post on this thread, Brian. Both you and John clearly have a strong commitment to the Pricescope community.
HOWEVER, I think your post missed the point most people were making here. I am not sure anyone suggested that custom-work (or any jewelery for that matter) is always perfect under magnification, or that customers are never too detail-oriented.
Instead, some people have recently had some issues with exactly what you say Whiteflash prides itself on, i.e., "how [concerns] are followed-up when they [arise]." These people have felt that their sales reps were somewhat defensive and unsympathetic to their concerns about a very expensive purchase, and they essentially had to get John's attention before they felt the company was "on their side." While it does seem true that Whiteflash almost always comes through in the end (which does probably set it above most custom jewelers), I would not dismiss the customer-service concerns (at the sales rep level) simply because you eventually "make things right."
Thanks again.
hikerchick
Brilliant_Rock
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2006
- Messages
- 804
Thank you for posting Brian and it is precisely this above statement that is keeping my BF and I hoping for the best ending to our situation . . . I REALLY want WF to come through with a ring we will love because I want to be able to continue recommending online diamond shopping and WF specifically to my friends and co-workers who are on the e-ring buying path. I hope you will not too quickly dismiss the "customer service" issues as a personality thing . . . because though different personalities are different, there is NEVER anything accomplished my yelling at or being rude to a customer. BTW, my setting was a stock setting NOT a custom setting. Thanks again,
hikerchick
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2005
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- 33,871
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