Oh dear did I buy a fake!

[Aussiewen]

Hi everyone,
Just purchased an 18ct Gold diamond Ruby ring. It came with a Valuation for $18k specifying 5.98 Natural Ruby. I have attached the copy. The Ruby has many fine abrasions on it and I would later down the track get it polished and recut.
Is there anyway I can see if it’s an imitation Ruby. On my diamond tester it didn’t light up.

Feeling disappointed

Thanks
Wendy

 

[Bron357]

Do you mean natural vs natural with treatment vs lab grown vs garnet vs glass?
I would assume that coming with the detailed valuation the gemstones were assessed by a gemologist so it should be natural vs natural with treatment.
You can’t rely on any electronic testers other to seperate natural vs natural with treatments vs lab grown. An electronic tester can tell you if it’s glass or garnet though.
Though, realistically a natural untreated 5 carat ruby from any origin is going to be much much more than $18,000.
You probably need to send it to a gemologist with appropriate equipment to detect treatments, my worry would be it is heated with moderate residues. this wouldn’t be good and the stone can’t be recut or even subject to heat or pickle (the acid they use to clean the metal after solder).

 

[Avondale]

@Bron357 Why is it that a recut, heat or acid would be problematic in case of residues?

 

[Aussiewen]

Hi everyone,
Just purchased an 18ct Gold diamond Ruby ring. It came with a Valuation for $18k specifying 5.98 Natural Ruby. I have attached the copy. The Ruby has many fine abrasions on it and I would later down the track get it polished and recut.
Is there anyway I can see if it’s an imitation Ruby. On my diamond tester it didn’t light up.

Feeling disappointed

Thanks
Wendy

Do you mean natural vs natural with treatment vs lab grown vs garnet vs glass?
I would assume that coming with the detailed valuation the gemstones were assessed by a gemologist so it should be natural vs natural with treatment.
You can’t rely on any electronic testers other to seperate natural vs natural with treatments vs lab grown. An electronic tester can tell you if it’s glass or garnet though.
Though, realistically a natural untreated 5 carat ruby from any origin is going to be much much more than $18,000.
You probably need to send it to a gemologist with appropriate equipment to detect treatments, my worry would be it is heated with moderate residues. this wouldn’t be good and the stone can’t be recut or even subject to heat or pickle (the acid they use to clean the metal after solder).

Hi Bron,
Thanks for getting back to me.
I was worried it could be glass or possibly a garnet. Could the Valuer get this wrong?
It’s heavily chipped and looks like it’s been in this setting a long time with 1 claw broken. When I look through the loupe it looks relatively clear and shows a bit of a brown hue with rich red. It sparkles very nicely. Surely it wouldn’t be glass right? I can see a few inclusions but nothing major. Sounds too good to be true. I’m praying it’s a Natural Ruby.

 

[Ionysis]

It probably is a natural ruby. But it looks like a garnet. That’s a lot of money to spend for a ruby which doesn’t look like a ruby….

 

[Aussiewen]

I just looked up the Valuer. She has been Valuing pieces for 19 years. I feel a bit more relieved now. They use proper equipment to analyse the Gem too so hopefully all above board. I just thought Ruby would test like a diamond with my diamond tester but it didn’t.

 

[chrono]

It is easy enough to check that it is a ruby and not something else. The elephant in the room is not knowing whether it is diffused, lead glass filled, composite, etc. which affects the valuation greatly.

 

[fredflintstone]

Hi everyone,
Just purchased an 18ct Gold diamond Ruby ring. It came with a Valuation for $18k specifying 5.98 Natural Ruby. I have attached the copy. The Ruby has many fine abrasions on it and I would later down the track get it polished and recut.
Is there anyway I can see if it’s an imitation Ruby. On my diamond tester it didn’t light up.

Feeling disappointed

Thanks
Wendy

I take it it is an estate ring, as you write the ruby had abrasions. Estate jewelry sales at a heavy discount to new.

If it was a top end heated or untreated ruby you would've have paid more, but as is, this is not a suspicious price for such a stone as I see in the picture.

Not saying it is not beautiful, it is very pretty, but world class ruby does bring a much higher price, even estate, that does not mean it is not beautiful.

Wear it in good health.

 

[T L]

Corundum is prone to abrasion. I would get a reputable lab report if you’re that concerned.

 

[Bron357]

@Bron357 Why is it that a recut, heat or acid would be problematic in case of residues?

Rubies can contain fractures and fissures. Such rubies, as they are, aren’t attractive or desirable. So people can “improve” the ruby by various means. To stabilise a fractured ruby, at high heat, flux can be introduced which then “seeps” into the fissures and fills them up. After treatment to the eye these rubies look beautiful and are still classed as “natural”.
High heat that is used to solder metal is hot enough to turn the flux filling back to liquid and /or the acid pickle used on jewellery will dissolve away the flux.
So a flux filled ruby mustn’t be put near a jewellers torch or put into the pickling solution.
Recutting a ruby that has been flux filled is very risky, the fissures can just split apart.

 

[Avondale]

@Bron357 Do you have any available resources on this you could point me to, please? I thought it applied to lead-glass filling specifically, which we all know is very unstable. So far the things I've read on flux treatment with borax suggests that it's a healing process which completely heals and closes the fractures, and the residues that labs detect are just residual material, trapped inside the stone, not a filling. It's supposed to be a stable treatment, justifying the significantly higher price of flux healed stone compared to glass filled ones. If this is not true, it will significantly alter my view on it, especially considering I was eyeing the Greenland rubies as a curious specimen, and they're all flux healed due to the nature of the material.

 

[Aussiewen]

So I got a gemologist to to a refractive index test and yep just as i guessed came up as a garnet. I asked for a full refund. Lesson learnt. Don’t always believe Valuations. Go with your instinct!
Thanks all

 

[Avondale]

So I got a gemologist to to a refractive index test and yep just as i guessed came up as a garnet. I asked for a full refund. Lesson learnt. Don’t always believe Valuations. Go with your instinct!
Thanks all

Oh wow. Well, there goes the valuer's reputation down the drain. I hope all goes well and easy with the refund. If I were you, when the case is resolved and closed, I'd type out the name of the company and the valuer... let search engines index it so that other potential buyers can find this information and proceed with caution.

 

[Aussiewen]

Oh wow. Well, there goes the valuer's reputation down the drain. I hope all goes well and easy with the refund. If I were you, when the case is resolved and closed, I'd type out the name of the company and the valuer... let search engines index it so that other potential buyers can find this information and proceed with caution.

The Gemologist I took it to has her own Jewellery Antique Store and said they have been trying to shut these guys down for years. They pretend to have all this accreditation but it’s all bullocks. It’s quite concerning. She gave me some names and numbers who I should contact to make a complaint. Lucky I have my refund in my hands now so I gave the seller the details. I have had zero luck buying a nice Ruby on a budget lol. I guess I’ll keep saving. Found this Ruby ring in a store today but yep no details of treatment done to the stone.

 

[Rfisher]

The Gemologist I took it to has her own Jewellery Antique Store and said they have been trying to shut these guys down for years. They pretend to have all this accreditation but it’s all bullocks. It’s quite concerning. She gave me some names and numbers who I should contact to make a complaint. Lucky I have my refund in my hands now so I gave the seller the details. I have had zero luck buying a nice Ruby on a budget lol. I guess I’ll keep saving. Found this Ruby ring in a store today but yep no details of treatment done to the stone.

Have you made your line in the sand of what treatments are not acceptable to you for a large (6ct+?) ruby for your budget?

No glass filled, no composite, no coatings, no diffused - but moderate residues ok? As an example.

I’m glad you were able to get your money back!

The ring you last pictured - I could definitely see myself being ok with a lab report of moderate residues if it were priced ‘right’, didn’t look too crumbly, if the mounting was irresistible, and if I loved the way it looked outside of spotlight as well

 

[PrecisionGem]

Recutting a ruby that has been flux filled is very risky, the fissures can just split apart.

I wonder where you got this information. My experience is that the ruby is treated in the rough before cutting. I have had both glass filled and flux rubies treated in the rough, and then cut them with no issues. I wouldn't think recutting would be any different.

 

[Aussiewen]

Have you made your line in the sand of what treatments are not acceptable to you for a large (6ct+?) ruby for your budget?

No glass filled, no composite, no coatings, no diffused - but moderate residues ok? As an example.

I’m glad you were able to get your money back!

The ring you last pictured - I could definitely see myself being ok with a lab report of moderate residues if it were priced ‘right’, didn’t look too crumbly, if the mounting was irresistible, and if I loved the way it looked outside of spotlight as well

Funny you say that as I just bought it lol. No lab report but they assure me it’s Natural Ruby not glass or fracture filled. Would just be heated. It’s 7.28 Carat Ruby and ICT G si diamonds and it just danced on my hand. The smaller Ruby pictured was twice the price and much darker. I went for the big one as it looked amazing in the shade also. I could see some black carbon spots with a loupe. For that size and my budget I decided to layby it and can pick it up whenever I’m ready. There was 2 tiny knicks on outer edge of Ruby but I see these on James Allen rubies when zoomed in also.
Now here’s some pics.

 

[Bron357]

I wonder where you got this information. My experience is that the ruby is treated in the rough before cutting. I have had both glass filled and flux rubies treated in the rough, and then cut them with no issues. I wouldn't think recutting would be any different.

Here in Sydney the cutter I could find didn’t want to touch a glass filled ruby, maybe he just didn’t want to do it?

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

It's beautiful!!!!!! And huge!!!!!

If you want to find out any issues with it @Aussiewen soak it in a little lemon juice or vinegar. My mum did that with her glass filled one and it developed lines and webs all over it.

My unheated sapphire was fine. No change after being soaked in rice vinegar.

 

[Aussiewen]

It's beautiful!!!!!! And huge!!!!!

If you want to find out any issues with it @Aussiewen soak it in a little lemon juice or vinegar. My mum did that with her glass filled one and it developed lines and webs all over it.

My unheated sapphire was fine. No change after being soaked in rice vinegar.

Thanks so much. I’ve been looking to see how I could work out if it was lead glass filled. That would be $70 to buy it if it was and I’m sure they wouldn’t want to ruin their reputation by doing so. The Ruby above my one I bought was priced at $24500 as it was a more richer colour. It still had inclusions with magnification. The bigger Ruby looked much nicer in both shade and under those bright down lights. Fingers crossed it’s just heated.

 

[whimsicism]

For that sort of money, you really ought to get a report from one of the major labs like AGL instead of gambling.

 

[T L]

I have had zero luck buying a nice Ruby on a budget lol.

Highly unlikely.

I own many gem varieties/species, but the one gem I do not own is ruby. Finding a nice ruby, let alone an untreated or minimally treated stone with nice color/clarity, in a size larger than a carat, is hard enough. Finding one for a decent price is almost impossible.

I may be in the minority, but I would go for a red spinel from a reputable vendor. They’re more readily available in untreated nice stones, and they can look identical to ruby.

 

[Aussiewen]

Highly unlikely.

I own many gem varieties/species, but the one gem I do not own is ruby. Finding a nice ruby, let alone an untreated or minimally treated stone with nice color/clarity, in a size larger than a carat, is hard enough. Finding one for a decent price is almost impossible.

I may be in the minority, but I would go for a red spinel from a reputable vendor. They’re more readily available in untreated nice stones, and they can look identical to ruby.

Yes I’ve been searching for years. The vendor is going to check with the supplier what treatment has been done to this Ruby. So far have only put $100 deposit down. If it’s not lead glass or fracture filled and only heated I’ll go with it as it’s a nice stone for the size and my budget.
Thanks
Wendy

 

[PrecisionGem]

Here in Sydney the cutter I could find didn’t want to touch a glass filled ruby, maybe he just didn’t want to do it?

That's what I would think. A lot of people (me included) don't like doing recuts. The glass filled are treated in the rough, so they are cut after treatment whether first time cutting or recutting.

 

[PrecisionGem]

Yes I’ve been searching for years. The vendor is going to check with the supplier what treatment has been done to this Ruby. So far have only put $100 deposit down. If it’s not lead glass or fracture filled and only heated I’ll go with it as it’s a nice stone for the size and my budget.
Thanks
Wendy

What are the asking for the ring?

 

[Aussiewen]

What are the asking for the ring?

It was $9500. Does that sound too cheap? It is included with the loupe but eye clean.

 

[PrecisionGem]

I can not comment on the ring you are looking at, but one of my pricing guides if I enter a 7 ct oval ruby, heated fair cutting heavy inclusions comes back with this. Moderate inclusions and the price jumps to $29,000 per ct.
I have no idea what the market for used jewelry is, so I can't make any kind of valid comment.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

The Gemologist I took it to has her own Jewellery Antique Store and said they have been trying to shut these guys down for years. They pretend to have all this accreditation but it’s all bullocks. It’s quite concerning. She gave me some names and numbers who I should contact to make a complaint. Lucky I have my refund in my hands now so I gave the seller the details. I have had zero luck buying a nice Ruby on a budget lol. I guess I’ll keep saving. Found this Ruby ring in a store today but yep no details of treatment done to the stone.

thank goodness you got your money back
that was a lot of money

 

[Aussiewen]

I can not comment on the ring you are looking at, but one of my pricing guides if I enter a 7 ct oval ruby, heated fair cutting heavy inclusions comes back with this. Moderate inclusions and the price jumps to $29,000 per ct.
I have no idea what the market for used jewelry is, so I can't make any kind of valid comment.

Yes my Ruby seems a bit cheap doesn’t it? But in saying that, if it was a glass filled Ruby it would cost them around $70 to purchase the stone wouldn’t it? Surely a reputable jeweller that’s been around for 20 years wouldn’t risk buying that and selling as a Natural Ruby. But hey you never know. Also this ring is new and not 2nd hand. The darker Ruby was $24500 with the side diamonds.

Thanks for sharing that program Gemewizard. I just downloaded it on my iphone. I can see that choosing Translucent and or Transparent affects the price per carat greatly. Perhaps its a Translucent ruby bringing the price right down.

 

[T L]

I can not comment on the ring you are looking at, but one of my pricing guides if I enter a 7 ct oval ruby, heated fair cutting heavy inclusions comes back with this. Moderate inclusions and the price jumps to $29,000 per ct.
I have no idea what the market for used jewelry is, so I can't make any kind of valid comment.

This pricing makes no note of color quality.

Location/origin plays a factor in pricing as well.

ETA: color quality IS listed per GIA gemset, and that is a huge factor. My apologies for missing it .