Pre-nups and financial stuff

[beadchick]

Monkeyprincess- do not, under any circumstances, assume that the amount of money allocated by a judge as child support in a divorce is going to be anywhere enough to maintain a lifestyle that would be required in a two income family to support that child''s previous lifestyle. As a matter of fact, when there are now two households, it becomes even more expensive. Be cautious with this. Like Maevie, I also work in the mental health profession and I cannot tell you the number of women I see DAILY who are getting child support and still have their kids on medicaid. This isn''t everyone, and in all likelihood, in a two income family, this wouldn''t happen, but you can''t assume that you will be taken care of in a divorce without at least somewhat of a fight. And what happens if he wants joint custody?

I am like most people here. I grew up in a family-type environment. My mom was the only one of 5 siblings to get a divorce. The rest are still in their marriages, as are my cousins. My grandparents, with whom I was extremely close, were married 52 years. I believe in commitment and death til we part. But I do also believe in considering all ones options and educating oneself so that you make educated decisions.

I don''t want to force my opinions on people. I love that everyone who has responded to this topic has put a lot of thought into what they''ve written. It means that they''ve really thought about it and discussed it with their spouses. When so many people get divorced, and as a child of divorce who has a maybe somewhat unhealthy fear of it, it is really encouraging to see the thoughtfulness that I''ve seen in this the past couple of days.

At this point, I''m still not sure where I stand with the pre-nup. It is definitely something FI and I will further discuss. I respect every person''s opinion on this posting. But, I am really glad I brought this up b/c as we are making such a huge leap and commitment to another person, we need to be thinking about these things. And there have been things posted on this thread that I''ve not thought about before. So, hopefully others are having the same experience as me!

 

[RaiKai]

Date: 3/11/2010 5:58:35 PM
Author: beadchick
Monkeyprincess- do not, under any circumstances, assume that the amount of money allocated by a judge as child support in a divorce is going to be anywhere enough to maintain a lifestyle that would be required in a two income family to support that child's previous lifestyle. As a matter of fact, when there are now two households, it becomes even more expensive. Be cautious with this. Like Maevie, I also work in the mental health profession and I cannot tell you the number of women I see DAILY who are getting child support and still have their kids on medicaid. This isn't everyone, and in all likelihood, in a two income family, this wouldn't happen, but you can't assume that you will be taken care of in a divorce without at least somewhat of a fight. And what happens if he wants joint custody?

Good points. Child support varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction as well. And, if you and your ex live in DIFFERENT jurisdictions, the guidelines for child support may result in lower payments than you would expect for the higher standard of living in say, your jurisdiction over your exes.

Further, there is no automatic assumption these days that mom will have the kids, the presumption here at least is joint custody, and if you each share parenting time with the children about equally (here the breaking point is 60-40) then child support will be quite reduced. I HAVE seen parents who fought to get this 60-40 split in order to reduce or cancel their child support. Heck, you may even end up paying child support to the ex depending on the breakdown and salaries, etc. Don't get me wrong, I advocate joint custody where possible and healthy for the children, and in no way think it should be avoided to get more support, I am just saying that support may be affected by these kind of arrangements.

If the one paying child support loses their job, or has to take a lower paying position, etc...well.....that is going to make a big difference. Or.....they don't pay. Yes, there are ways to pursue someone who is not paying just for the sake of not paying, however, THAT becomes expensive and intensely frustrating too. Surprisingly, not everyone cares if they lose their license or have their bank accounts frozen, apparently!

When my parents divorced, my mother got $300 a month for three kids, when my father actually paid it. Much of the time he didn't. The laws have changed since then here, but it shows child support does not get one very far.

There is also no guarantee of spousal support. In fact here, it is quite rare to get any long term spousal support.

You definitely cannot count on child support. All that being said, the courts won't necessarily allow you to "agree" on child support or custody as in an prenuptial. Depends on where you live. If the agreed on child support is above the "guidelines" (if they have them in your area) and it is not a hardship, then they may. I have not yet seen a court agree to enforce an amount BELOW the guideline unless there were very, very extenuating circumstances. But when it comes to issues like custody, and so forth, its determined in the best interests of the child. Which may be very different than what you had in mind when the prenuptial was done.

 

[FrekeChild]

I actually stopped thinking about this constantly since my last post. Hmmm!!!

Anyway, I wanted to mention that spousal support (alimony) usually comes as an "until" kind of clause. She gets $XXX per month until she dies, until she remarries, until she gets a job where she can support herself, etc. My cousins (he''s a VP of a company, and she''s now a nursing student/physician''s assistant) alimony paperwork reads something like, "Mr. X will pay Mrs. X $XXX per month until Mrs. X''s schooling is done. Mr. X will also pay for all of Little X''s tuition and living expenses. Any assets that Mr. and Mrs. X have in common will be halved and divided evenly."

You get the idea. BTW, the reason Little X isn''t getting any child support is because she''s 21.

 

[monkeyprincess]

Beadchick - if you are a stay at home mom, you never had a two income family. And under the laws of every state, you would be entitled to child support and spousal support. Your spousal support would not be indefinite, and you would have to start supporting yourself. Sure your lifestyle is going to change. But I fail to see how you having a prenup would change the fact you were only a one income family.

ETA - I am an attorney, so you do not need to caution me. Believe me. In addition to divorce, husbands die or become unable to work. That is life. I believe woman need to learn to take care of themselves, and I will never be in that position because I have an education. Your hypothetical was a stay at home mom.

ETA - I in no way am denigrating stay at home mothers. I think it is a wonderful thing to do for your children, and I may very well stay home with my children for a few years after they are born. I just think it is a mistake not to get your education before you decide to have children just in case you end up needing to support yourself and your children.