PS Mommy Thread-Newborn to 12 months!

[PrettyBlues]

Thanks everyone for the welcome.

Sabine, sorry about your schedule. Sounds busy and stressful. Moving is never fun, but it is something else with a baby, that's for sure.

Fiery, that's too bad about the date for the b-day party. I'm sure Sophia will not mind

, but I would be upset too.

PG, hope Claire is feeling better soon.

Burk, oh no! Hope you are getting through the day ok. That's a rough night.

MP, no blog. I keep meaning to write stuff out in a journal though, but it hasn't happened other than my birth story. I just keep trying to make myself feel better saying our parents never thought to do anything like this and we survived.

re naps, cues, etc...I would say Miles is up for about an hour and a half before going down to nap at this point, but I don't follow it too closely. Maybe I will also keep a little sleep log for a week to see if he has a pattern. He doesn't really do much in the ways of cues either yet, except for the occasional yawn. Although in the past week he does get fussy right before he falls asleep. I've been lucky in that he will sleep wherever and it's rare for him to not nap. But I'm worried now that I carry him during the day he is going to get used to sleeping on me (which he never needed before) and eventually it will be hard to transition him back to his crib/pnp. Sigh.

 

[KimberlyH]

i forgot to say welcome, pretty. miles is adorable! i hold jane a lot. i figure i''m only going to get to for so long so i may as well do so while i can!

 

[Mara]

PB I am like you in that I did not want J to get used to being carried, held or cossetted to sleep. I am kind of nazi that way, but I lavished a lot of lovin' on him at other times so it's not like he went without, I just didn't like continuously rocking him to sleep or letting him sleep on me, etc. I would sometimes...esp if he was hard to put down for a nap or at night, but I was careful to never make it consistent.

Of course I would have loved it if I could have done it more, but it wasn't really about me, it was about him learning the right habits because those are the habits he will hopefully be using for life. There are lots of times when I want to do something because it would make me happy (aka go snuggle him at night because he's fussing and can't sleep well) but I try to think about the long-term and I know it's better for him to continue to learn he can put himself back to sleep. I do go in and put the paci back in or re-orient him if he has wedged himself in the corner but I don't pick him up. He may not love it all the time (who really doesn't love to be snuggled to sleep?!), but I know he (and I) will be thankful later.

I know I def look back on some of the earlier days wishing I'd held him more when he was sooo small because they grow so fast. But on the flip side I now have a kid who I can just put down in a crib 90% of the time and have him either talk or squirm or suck/pacifier himself into sleep without my help. Other times he needs my help which is totally fine--that is what I am here for. But I still have friends who have kids J's age who can't do that, AND I have a few other coworkers who have 9 and 12 month olds who are still rocking their kids to sleep. I really didn't want to be in that situ esp knowing I was going to be working.

Interesting thing re: Sleep but I read something--it might have been in HSHHC about how sleep habits you learn when you are little can affect you throughout your life. How a lot of people who have dysfunctional sleep habits when they are older can potentially be gleaned from how they behaved as babies or kids with sleep. I have a really good friend who has horrible sleep issues, always taking pills and things and still can't sleep well...she is the one who gave me HSHHC and she was like...teach him the right habits early! So I always think about her and how I really didn't want to be contributing potentially to a hassled future. I am sure not everyone agrees with that mindset but I found it interesting in her case especially.

I know that a lot of experts say you can't 'spoil' the kid too much when they are small but it's not about spoiling, you can't spoil the kid with LOVE--but it's about the setting of expectations. When something is done the same way EVERY TIME, of course the kid comes to expect it. If parents are ok with that--then great. But when the kid is 6 months and they want that every time, it always baffles me when parents act surprised...like 'why doesnt he just put himself to sleep already?' and I am thinking 'REALLY? He's psychic now to know this is what you want when for 6 months you did it another way? '

BTW this is not directed at anyone on here, I have some friends in RL and sometimes I just scratch my head...esp when they come to ask me for advice and I keep telling them the same thing but then they don't do it and wonder why it's not WORKING? Or they somehow imply that my son sleeping pretty well is just fairy-dust MAGICAL when in reality I put a lot of hard work into it, and I possibly went without a lot of baby snuggles, so that we could be at the sleeping well point earlier rather than later. I am super anal about sleep.

 

[MonkeyPie]

Big ditto, Mara. I hold Micah tons - when he''s awake. I bounce him just a minute or two after swaddling then stick him in the crib, and only get him back out if he gets irate. But he doesn''t, because he understands that swaddle+crib/bassinet = sleep. DH doesn''t even bounce him and he''s fine.

I think a lot has to do with baby personality, though. Micah has always been a good sleeper at night and stays up most of the day with very little napping. (He powernaps - 20 minutes or so at a time, usually.)

 

[Burk]

Took K to the pedi. He apologized for not looking at the prilosec dosage last week when we were in for shots (since K is now 15 lb 13 oz and he was only about 12 when the prescription was written) so he thinks his reflux is def. bothering him but he also ran a blood panel and sure enough the little stinker has a nasty virus. No wonder he keeps waking up and acting like he''s in pain. He is. I should have known because I''m sick now too and we probably have the same stuff and it''s miserable. My whole body aches, my throat hurts, it''s rough for an adult so I''m sure poor baby feels awful. Not like he slept great before (woke once to eat and usually once for paci) but this is down right horrible.

Thanks MP! I started copying and pasting my posts about T into a word document to hopefully print and make a book someday...she''s two, though, and I''m only up to 9 months copying posts!!

fiery~Thanks! Def. not feeling well. Poor guy. No nap for me today, we''re having friends over for dinner so I have a house to tidy up and an apple pie to bake.

Kimberly~Thanks! It''s awful feeling so helpless, isn''t it?!?

mara~Thanks, guess it''s not wakefulness. Hopefully he feels better soon because I''m no where close to wakeful!

Also wanted to say my milk supply has gone down too, but so far my bbs are just smaller so I like them more!

I went from pumping 24ish ozes a day (2 pumps) to maybe 16-18. The little stinker weaned himself and won''t nurse at night anymore and I refuse to pump then to make up for it so I''ll probably have to start suplimenting (been using frozen milk so far).


PrettyBlues~Thanks! Sorry I didn''t welcome you in my selfish post before. Your little guy is a cutie!

The sleep talk is so interesting to me because I''ve done this twice now and my kids are SOOOO different regarding sleep and I''ve done the same thing for both. T was sleeping through the night (12 hours) at 12 weeks. K was sleeping 8 hour stretches at 12 weeks. We bounced T to sleep (like not excessive, but until her eyes closed at least)until about 6 months and then just started putting her in her crib and she put herself to sleep from then on (No CIO needed although I was willing to do so). K will puts himself to sleep some times (he''s 4 months) but if he struggles I just bounce. He was putting himself to sleep more before my MIL watched him for a few weeks!

So, I guess what I''m saying is SOOOOO much of it depends on the kid. I''m a nazi in the sense that nap time is in the crib and right when they''re tired and bed time is 7pm but no amount of nazi has helped K STTN. Of course, now that he''s all sick we''re probably going to be even worse off.

I do plan to CIO with him at 6 months if he''s still not STTN but as for right now I''m pretty sure he really is hungry and that''s why he wakes for the one feed.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 6/16/2010 2:10:30 PM
Author: Mara
PB I am like you in that I did not want J to get used to being carried, held or cossetted to sleep. I am kind of nazi that way, but I lavished a lot of lovin' on him at other times so it's not like he went without, I just didn't like continuously rocking him to sleep or letting him sleep on me, etc. I would sometimes...esp if he was hard to put down for a nap or at night, but I was careful to never make it consistent.

Of course I would have loved it if I could have done it more, but it wasn't really about me, it was about him learning the right habits because those are the habits he will hopefully be using for life. There are lots of times when I want to do something because it would make me happy (aka go snuggle him at night because he's fussing and can't sleep well) but I try to think about the long-term and I know it's better for him to continue to learn he can put himself back to sleep. I do go in and put the paci back in or re-orient him if he has wedged himself in the corner but I don't pick him up. He may not love it all the time (who really doesn't love to be snuggled to sleep?!), but I know he (and I) will be thankful later.

I know I def look back on some of the earlier days wishing I'd held him more when he was sooo small because they grow so fast. But on the flip side I now have a kid who I can just put down in a crib 90% of the time and have him either talk or squirm or suck/pacifier himself into sleep without my help. Other times he needs my help which is totally fine--that is what I am here for. But I still have friends who have kids J's age who can't do that, AND I have a few other coworkers who have 9 and 12 month olds who are still rocking their kids to sleep. I really didn't want to be in that situ esp knowing I was going to be working.

Interesting thing re: Sleep but I read something--it might have been in HSHHC about how sleep habits you learn when you are little can affect you throughout your life. How a lot of people who have dysfunctional sleep habits when they are older can potentially be gleaned from how they behaved as babies or kids with sleep. I have a really good friend who has horrible sleep issues, always taking pills and things and still can't sleep well...she is the one who gave me HSHHC and she was like...teach him the right habits early! So I always think about her and how I really didn't want to be contributing potentially to a hassled future. I am sure not everyone agrees with that mindset but I found it interesting in her case especially.

I know that a lot of experts say you can't 'spoil' the kid too much when they are small but it's not about spoiling, you can't spoil the kid with LOVE--but it's about the setting of expectations. When something is done the same way EVERY TIME, of course the kid comes to expect it. If parents are ok with that--then great. But when the kid is 6 months and they want that every time, it always baffles me when parents act surprised...like 'why doesnt he just put himself to sleep already?' and I am thinking 'REALLY? He's psychic now to know this is what you want when for 6 months you did it another way? '

BTW this is not directed at anyone on here, I have some friends in RL and sometimes I just scratch my head...esp when they come to ask me for advice and I keep telling them the same thing but then they don't do it and wonder why it's not WORKING? Or they somehow imply that my son sleeping pretty well is just fairy-dust MAGICAL when in reality I put a lot of hard work into it, and I possibly went without a lot of baby snuggles, so that we could be at the sleeping well point earlier rather than later. I am super anal about sleep.

Yes, you did put a lot of work into it. I still get the same thing all the time. We'll never know for sure how much of it is the method, or how much is just the make of the child, but at least we know we did everything we could do.

You'll find out that other parents have a way of giving the kid credit for something good, and giving the parent the blame if something is not so good (normal behavior, really). Right now I get Amelia must be well behaved because she is a GIRL all the time from all my friends with misbehaved boys. I put more energy into boundaries and consistency than I ever have when it came to sleep training.

I will be interested to see what parents say is your J's reason when they see he is a well behaved boy.

 

[MonkeyPie]

Date: 6/16/2010 4:49:19 PM
Author: TravelingGal

You''ll find out that other parents have a way of giving the kid credit for something good, and giving the parent the blame if something is not so good (normal behavior, really). Right now I get Amelia must be well behaved because she is a GIRL all the time from all my friends with misbehaved boys. I put more energy into boundaries and consistency than I ever have when it came to sleep training.

I will be interested to see what parents say is your J''s reason when they see he is a well behaved boy.

I won''t even lie, I have said that in the past - boys usually ARE more active/busy and hence, naughty, than girls who are usually far more likely to play pretend and be quiet. (I say usually, because that is in my experience, not saying all kids are this way!) Now that I have a boy I have to wonder if he will prove me wrong completely. I wouldn''t mind

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 6/16/2010 5:03:56 PM
Author: MonkeyPie

Date: 6/16/2010 4:49:19 PM
Author: TravelingGal

You''ll find out that other parents have a way of giving the kid credit for something good, and giving the parent the blame if something is not so good (normal behavior, really). Right now I get Amelia must be well behaved because she is a GIRL all the time from all my friends with misbehaved boys. I put more energy into boundaries and consistency than I ever have when it came to sleep training.

I will be interested to see what parents say is your J''s reason when they see he is a well behaved boy.

I won''t even lie, I have said that in the past - boys usually ARE more active/busy and hence, naughty, than girls who are usually far more likely to play pretend and be quiet. (I say usually, because that is in my experience, not saying all kids are this way!) Now that I have a boy I have to wonder if he will prove me wrong completely. I wouldn''t mind

I have no doubt that boys are different from girls MP. Many do tend to be more active. But Amelia is on the go a lot, active, and very curious, so it''s not like she likes to sit there and do nothing.

While I think boys may be harder to "control" it certainly can be done. My close friends all have boys and they are all well behaved. You can be more active and what not, but still come to a halt when your parent tells you something is not OK. Sometimes it takes some extra effort, but I just don''t believe that a child is well behaved SIMPLY because she''s a girl. That''s ridiculous. Also, my definition of well behaved is not how active they are and how much stuff they can get into (that''s just being a kid) but their ability to stop, listen, understand and follow directions. That skill is TAUGHT. To BOTH sexes.

Plus between my brother and me, he was always the easier to control.

 

[MonkeyPie]

Date: 6/16/2010 5:12:43 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Plus between my brother and me, he was always the easier to control.

Ahahaha!

Here''s hoping I can teach Micah not to pull the kitties ears or run screaming through stores.

 

[PrettyBlues]

Mara, I definitely get what you are saying and agree with a lot of it. And I know I have been lucky because Miles is actually a really good sleeper overall. I'm not sure if it was from him being a preemie or just his disposition (or both maybe). Definitely from being early, at the beginning he slept ALL THE TIME, as in we would have to wake him up to eat and try to keep him awake long enough to do it, so he slept wherever we put him, and got used to his pnp early and didn't seem effected by sleeping on our chests - kangaroo care as suggested to us. So even now, it's not a problem to put him down in his crib or pnp and he falls asleep with no problems probably 95% of the time. And we don't need to bounce or rock him to sleep, we put him down awake but drowsy and off he goes.

But now with his problem with a slight flat head, I don't WANT him to lay down most of the time, and I don't think just doing tummy time is enough for him. So now I carry him, and he's great with it, but I'm just hoping that it won't turn into an sleep issue later.

It's tough because I want him to sleep well, but I don't want him to end up with a severe flat head and the need to wear a helmet 22 hours a day, KWIM?

So what I'm doing is putting him in the carrier in the morning, then in the afternoon he goes down to nap in his pnp or crib, and then I might carry him again in the late afternoon/early evening depending on what we are doing.

Don't know what will happen in the future, but it's what I think is the best for right now.

 

[Mara]

Date: 6/16/2010 5:12:43 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Plus between my brother and me, he was always the easier to control.

Greg was the well-behaved one and his sis was a wild child.

I know already that J is going to be a handful, he is always seeming to ''test'' his boundaries already AND he is a mover and shaker, relatively rarely still. So crazy interested in everything, very verbal, etc. But I already know what kind of parent I will be too. And yep a lot of people give him all the credit for being a great sleeper (or say how LUCKY i am he is a great sleeper) and some of that IS true. If he flat out didn''t want to sleep ever then I could probably do relatively little. Thankfully while he wasn''t the easiest pupil at all times, he generally seems to accept teachings. I view it kind of like a team effort at this point.

People def blame the parents when things go wrong with kids... Greg often says about people who are in the news that their parents must not have done a good job. I kind of laugh because I know that it''s not ever JUST the parents or the kid. Personalities come into play too. He''ll soon learn that if he hasn''t already, hehee.

 

[fieryred33143]

Ditto teaching good sleep habits early. I have a ton of sleep issues. My parents weren''t bad parents but they just weren''t as disciplined with certain things and sleep is definitely one of them.

My whole family is that way. I called my cousin last night around midnight (she sent me a text to call her if I was awake, which I was, see above

). Anyway, both of her young children were still awake. One is 18 months, the other is 3. And when I say awake, I mean that the TV was on very loud because I could barely hear her and both kids were yelling at each other. I asked what time they go to bed and she says usually around 1:30/2am

. She can get them down earlier if she sleeps with them in the room. It''s going to set them up for really bad habits in the future.

As for Sophia, she has an attitude for sure. She will throw herself on to the ground when she''s angry, cries ugly tears, and screams at the top of her lungs. I think it''s because she gets everything she wants with MIL. She has already broken 4 of their chef ceramic decorations they have in the kitchen because they let her touch it and then throw it on the ground.

The other night she was crawling and found a short wire under the couch (it was to one of FI''s music equipments). Anyway, it wasn''t plugged in or anything but I took it away from her because I don''t want her to get into the habit of thinking that wires are toys. OMG the DRAMA. And redirecting only works if I''m putting her in the direction of something even more awesome than wires to play with...like my shoes or FI''s PS3 remote (guess which one I usually point her towards

)

 

[KimberlyH]

i have found sleep issues are dependent on both parents and babies. it took a lot of work to get jane to sleep by herself, instead of on me, at night. so i tackled that first as it was most important to me. now it''s time to tackle naps, so i just keep doing what i did with the former and i figure we''ll get there eventually, and if not and i get frustrated i''ll reevaluate. i know a lot of people view my methods as incorrect, or see it as a prelude to being weak at parenting in general, i''m good with that. i view sleep and discipline as seperate issues.

 

[Mara]

kim, i don''t think anything is wrong with your method. you know you want J to be a certain way in the future, and are willing to work at it, and better yet know it will take work. some parents would just be like...oh it''s fine, i''m sure it''ll eventually just work itself out and/or would keep doing the original thing because the kid wanted it or they didn''t want to work at changing it etc. J was a crap napper and i just kept doing the same thing over and over, and figured one day he''d hopefully catch on. and i think they do eventually...but it might take some time.

pretty blues, did you ask your pedi about the flat head? i never really looked at J''s head hehe...i just am glad it''s pretty round since he was so cone head when he came out! i don''t roll him around or anything but he is typically not a back/head sleeper anyway and moves his head from side to side so if anything it''s prob flatter on the sides lol.

greg told me his mom was so paranoid he''d have a flat head she spent hours each day just rolling his head around lol. as a result he has a totally round head, its funny!!

fiery...cutie sophia sounds like she''s got quite the personality, hehee. it must be the latin in her!

 

[MonkeyPie]

I will probably hear lots of crap for this (and I understand why) but I let Micah sleep on his side/tummy often enough that his head is still totally round. He also sleeps on a pillow. Yes, I do all those things they tell you not to let babies his age do. Bad mama that I am and all

 

[Mara]

Date: 6/17/2010 12:26:19 AM
Author: MonkeyPie
I will probably hear lots of crap for this (and I understand why) but I let Micah sleep on his side/tummy often enough that his head is still totally round. He also sleeps on a pillow. Yes, I do all those things they tell you not to let babies his age do. Bad mama that I am and all

I know the safest thing is back is best etc... but I also think that parents know their kids for the most part, and they should do what they feel comfortable with.

I hate sleeping on my back, side and/or tummy is how I prefer to sleep! I was the same as a baby. J has started rolling onto his side at night and I will wake up and see him on his side in the video, but he sleeps light enough now at night after midnight.

Also since we''re confessing ...

the nights he was sleeping horribly I would give him his knitted blanket after the 2nd or 3rd time of waking up because he just likes cuddling with something soft. It''s knitted and I can breathe through it, and I also tuck it into the crib...he just slept so much better with it than without.

 

[KimberlyH]

mara, it''s all about the repetition and i''ve got that down. pick up, sooth, put down, until we finally have victory. there''s definitely a goal in sight and i see a bit of progress most days so i just keep at it.

as for sleep habits, my mom fed me to sleep and down i went, and i don''t need to eat to go to bed nor do i have other issues with sleep.

nice walk this afternoon, relaxing dinner, off to bed, for the first round. john is finally painting little miss'' room, so she can start napping in her crib...hooray!

 

[MonkeyPie]

Date: 6/17/2010 12:40:46 AM
Author: Mara
I hate sleeping on my back, side and/or tummy is how I prefer to sleep! I was the same as a baby. J has started rolling onto his side at night and I will wake up and see him on his side in the video, but he sleeps light enough now at night after midnight.

Also since we''re confessing ...

the nights he was sleeping horribly I would give him his knitted blanket after the 2nd or 3rd time of waking up because he just likes cuddling with something soft. It''s knitted and I can breathe through it, and I also tuck it into the crib...he just slept so much better with it than without.

Micah has some softy blankets, too

He likes to shove his face into the pillow/blanket/whatever is handy as well, but I always used to sleep like that myself. Since he was just a few days old he would arch and kick his feet until he got onto his side, even swaddled, and he always sleeps better on his side or tummy than his back, so I just start him off that way with the positioner or pillow. He sleeps so much more soundly and quietly that way.

He was so funny last night. He went to bed a bit earlier than usual so he was up twice last night to eat, and both times when I was holding him in one arm (to make the bottle with the other), he would flail, arch, and then poop audibly. And smelly, omg! It was seriously hilarious, and I would laugh so hard. He''s so funny.

I had bad dreams when I first went to bed

I dreamt someone (I''m guessing me) was in a car accident with Micah and he came out disfigured, with a deep groove below his throat and half of his face kind of, well, squished. In my dream I would cry and cry because I had this perfect baby and something just went so horribly wrong. Gah

 

[vizsla]

hi all!
ok.. first.. did anyone else see this story re: sunscreens? the environmental working group tested like 1400 sunscreens and only recommends 39 of them ..... or something like that.. the nutragena baby i have is no bueno.. gonna have to go out and buy some california baby stat!


best sunscreens

secondly... welcome pretty blues!!! sounds like you''ve had an interesting start to miles life! so glad he''s healthy and happy and cuddly and wonderful and all those things that newborns are congrats! we''re so glad to have you (p.s. i LOVE the name miles... it was my imaginary boy''s name for YEARS before we actually HAD a boy and DH vetoed it... i''m still very surly about it... i think it''s like the best.name.ever!)

now, ya know i love to weigh in on sleeping debates (NOT) but i would be remiss if i didn''t play devil''s advocate. and only because some of the statements seem a little to black and white when, really.. there is a HUGE grey area. i agree wholeheartedly that IF you work hard and IF you are consistent and (big) IF you have an agreeable baby then, yes, good sleep habits can start early - and YES, it takes work.
however,

a parent can do all of the above mentioned and still not have a good sleeper.. there are just too many factors. and, i take small issue with blanket statements because, well... we know why

.
i know the posts weren''t directed AT me, but i can''t help but feel a bit slighted. no one mentioned chronic illness, or "colic" or any of the other things that can make it, literally, impossible to put a baby peacefully in it''s crib/bassinet to sleep - and have them *stay* there
i don''t think that if anyone really truly had a colicky baby who cried for 6+ hours a day, or one who was up 7+x a night due to illness that they would be able to say, without a doubt, they would still follow any type of ''sleep training'' and/or let them cry in their crib. there is a difference between fussy, cranky don''t want to sleep cry and "i''m in pain" cry. so when your baby is clearly crying "in pain" you do what you need to.

burk - hugs girl! that is NO fun... tons of empathy from me!!

pg- how''s claire?

AFM - i can say without a doubt that tubes were the BEST THING WE''VE EVER DONE! yes, c got another infection, but when we noticed the drainage after only 1 night of fussy-gussy''ness we simply gave him his ear drops - NO ANTIBIOTICS!!! - and he went back to his happy self after 1 day! AUH-mazing! of course he is teething hard-core and grabbing at his ear, but i know it''s b/c of the little toofus i see poking thru his gums and not b/c his ears are in pain. the REAL reason i''m so excited is because (please karma don''t strike me) c has only been getting up around 12a to eat! then sleeping until around 5a. we hold him after that feeding so we can all get another hour or so of sleep.. and two days ago he actually slept until 7a.... HUGE! he''s also doing sooooo so so so so so much better at being put down for naps. hopefully we''ve finally turned a corner - after only 7.5 months

.

he''s still so wishy washy with eating.. and yesterday he hardly ate anything (maybe like 25oz) i have to tell myself that he''s not going to let himself starve and to just be cool about it... so that''s me... totally cool

 

[KimberlyH]

um, viz, i don't have a sick or colicky baby and letting her cry isn't a solution for me. j slept on me first, then with me, and now in her pnp (next comes crib) at night. now i spend almost her entire naptime doing pick up put down, which means holding her through 80% of them. in the last two days it's gotten a bit better and we'll just keep trying. as i said, i know some people think i'm nuts, but it's what i'm coomfortable with at this point. even if that means it can take hours to put her down only to have her wake soon after and we start all over again.

side sleeping: j's ped recommended it, using a rolled up blanket, it's what i
do for naps. starting at her rib cage.

as for blankets and pillows, until they are in control of their bodies i just don't think it's worth the risk.

**

must clean house!

 

[Burk]

Viz~So glad that the tubes are working out! Yay for better sleep!!

RE:sleep again....I agree with Viz in that there is no black and white with sleep and sleep "training." There are just too many variables to come into play: kid demeanor, appetite, "colic", reflux, food intolerances, you get the picture. A parent can be consistent and do all the "right" things and depending on one or a couple of these factors can get different results. My first was "colicky" due to food intolerances and terrible reflux but for some reason was a great sleeper (really only at night she wasn''t a great napper until she got older). Now, K, also has food issues/reflux and his aren''t as bad as T''s but that coupled with his demeanor and appetite (he wants to eat all. the. time. unlike T) cause him to still night wake 1-2 times a night when T was sleeping 12 hours at this same age. However, he''s a pretty good napper. Same mom. Same schedule. Different baby. Another interesting point when I compare my two kids is that T was held a lot more than K because she was a first and she didn''t feel well so we held her a lot and held her to sleep (at this age at leas) a lot more than we do K and she was still better sleeper and great self soother. If I have a third I pray he/she sleeps like T because I''m tired!!

Speaking of K (the *terrible* sleeper of my two

especially now that he''s been sick) he took a 4 hr 15 min nap yesterday!!

He woke at the 2 hour mark (which is about his usual afternoon nap) but woke crabby and hungry so I fed him and he fell back asleep. I figured he needed the sleep since he''s been up so much because he hasn''t felt well so I let him sleep. He had a much better night last night too so he must be starting to kick this stuff. Thank goodness because I''m tired. DH also worked from home today so he got up with K at 7:15 when K woke and let me sleep until 8:30 when T got up. Heaven!

 

[jcrow]

Date: 6/16/2010 8:57:00 AM
Author: MonkeyPie
Ouch, Burk!

That''s awful, I hope tonight is better.


Anybody else mommy blog? I started one when I was PG trying to log my pregnancy but my goldfish memory kept making me forget. Now I have rediscovered it and I am enjoying it tons. I want to eventually make a book out of the posts from the first year

yep. i find it a great way to keep family and friends in the loop with all she''s doing. i also had a pregnancy blog too.

 

[PrettyBlues]

I agree that so much depends on the kid, as well as the parents. As Burk said you can have the same parents, same plan and different results. I have seen it with my sister who has three kids. And I also don''t think so much in terms of black and white, which is why I have made the decision to carry Miles even though I do worry it might change his sleeping and I know some people would not agree with my decision. Luckily, he''s my baby so I call the shots!

Viz, I''m new to this thread, but was following it a bit before when I had a moment to read and I''m sorry for all the sleep troubles you have had. I think I would be doing whatever worked if Miles had the same issues. I''m so glad that the tubes seem to be working well for you, I''m sure it''s such a relief. Thanks for the compliments on his name, I love it too.

Mara, I did discuss it with the pedi. She was actually the one who noticed it. As I mentioned it''s really slight, so I had missed it, though noticed he had a tiny bit of a bald spot there. It is actually on one side, not straight on the back. And it will probably correct itself, but hey, I have to be anxious about some things.

I guess I could always try rolling it around every day hehe.

 

[anchor31]

PB - Welcome! Miles is so beautiful! I'm sorry to hear about the hardships at the beginning, I'm glad that things are better and you are able to EBF despite it all. Congrats on finding a house! We moved on May 1st and J was 4 months, I can't imagine if he'd been younger. Yikes, you are one tough woman.

viz - I'm so glad C's infections are clearing up and things are looking up for him. And sleep! Yay for sleep!

Re: Sleep training - I do believe in CIO, but in certain conditions. I usually wait 5 minutes. If he cries for a longer time, usually it means something is wrong. I don't let him scream, though. Again, that usually means something is wrong. J is a calm baby and that works with him. For a while crib napping didn't work, so I would put him in his swing to nap. But when he was hospitalized for his 2nd UTI last month, obviously he had to nap in his crib, and CIO wasn't an option for naps or nighttime, so I learned how to put him to sleep better and he learned to nap in his crib. When we got home, I kept going with the crib napping, and I took the time to put him to sleep every time. Then, after a week, I started letting him put himself to sleep again. I have a little thingy strapped to him crib that plays music and lights for about 15 minutes, and a fan for white noise, and it works. Sometimes it takes a while for him to settle, he'll kick his legs, babble, sometimes wine a little, sometimes cry a little, but it works now 98% of the time.

Now the next thing I want to tackle is 12-hours nights. He does 8-10 hours consistently since 3 months, but I'd like him to sleep his whole night soon! I talked to DH about this this morning, because when he gets up at 5AM to get ready for work he likes to check up on J and if he's awake he'll play with him and of course that means I had to get up to feed him. I told DH as nicely as possible that I understand that he wants to spend time with J and play with him, but J has to get used to sleeping longer, so he has to stop going into his room in the morning. If he wants he can play more with J in the evening!

Question: I'd like to get something for J to practice sitting up while I can just watch him and do something else at the same time. Right now I don't have anything and I want him to practice this without me having to hold him all the time! What would you recommend?

 

[vizsla]

kim - i wasn''t disagreeing with you at all i held C alllll offfff tthheeee tiiimmeeee when he was itty bitty (and now when i''m home

). #1 because i wanted too #2 because he actually slept when i held him #3 because it made a huge difference in *my* mental state.

burk - glad you got some relief yesterday! hopefully the new dosage will help little K.

and to clarify my earlier post before i get it

- i just meant that *i* was be-YOND frustrated for sooo many months (and still am to some degree) because no matter what i did my baby still cried... and cried.... and cried... and cried..... and cried..... when i put him down.
pick up/put down - shhhhhh - swing - swaddle (rinse, repeat) ... and NADA. there is only so many hours you can do this before realizing ''yeah, this isn''t working''. so i held him and he was content.
then, when c was able to settle himself, he started getting sick.. and stayed sick for 3.5 months. even the pedi didn''t recommend sleep training or letting him cry when he was sick (the reason why we have an apt next week to get the "all clear").
when he is sick, it is my job to hold him and comfort him and make him better.
the hindsight of the last 4 months is that i totally ''fought'' the fact that he was sick. i thought either i was doing something wrong, i wasn''t being consistent enough or my baby was ''defective''

. after seeing the dramatic results from the tubes (and being consistent with his reflux meds) coupled with how truly awful his infection was - i *now* realize that no matter what i did in the beginning, it wasn''t going to make a difference. he was in pain - he was sick - he needed love and comfort.
did this create a ''bad habit'' - heck if i know? are we still doing the same things as before? yes! is he ''getting'' it? yes! is it because he''s finally feeling better? YES YES and YES!! i don''t have any delusions that we won''t continue to suffer setbacks - and i''ll probably resort back to the same frustrations - but it''s just not so black and white when it comes to sleep.

 

[Mara]

hey viz i totally agree that something like sleep training can only even possibly work IF your kid seems generally agreeable (as i noted that if your kid doesn''t want to sleep then what can you really do but keep trying)...AND if they are totally healthy. I can''t imagine knowing J was sick or in pain and just being like ''CIO kid, peace out!'' ...unless I was so exhausted I passed out or something. and YAY for tubes. i am so happy they seem to be working. poor C! did you ever say why he gets so many infections? just wondering if it''s something i can try to prevent or is just mother nature.

i don''t think it''s B/W at all BUT if you have a kid that doesn''t decide they want to be up 24 hours a day AND they are healthy then IMO if the kid doesn''t sleep well then it''s usually because the parents are wishy washy on their teachings. and again it''s more about peeps i know in real life, who have totally healthy kids and the parents seem paralyzed by too many options or not knowing what to do or whatever. one of them hired an expensive sleep consultant, i was like, read HSHHC! hehe.

so in that sense i am ''lucky'' that J decided he kinda maybe likes sleep and has been healthy.

oh and kim... i don''t think being fed to sleep isnt something you can''t outgrow...it''s more like fiery''s example, if you let the kids stay up til 2am their whole growing life, then it''s basically like overriding their natural circadian rythyms.

burk.. i hope K gives you some peace soon...!! and i hope he outgrows his allergies soon so you can experiment more with food and try the formula again. J totally seems to love it and it smells sooo good. haha.

pb..i also forgot to say i love the name miles. it was not on Greg''s list so we couldn''t consider it.

mp...yup i sleep with my face right near the blankets and also with my hand by my face. J totally likes to do that too. i feel safest when i am cocooned in blankets, i hate sleeping with just a sheet or without any coverings, i feel exposed and unsafe. it''s totally from childhood, i prob had like 12 blankets in the crib with me.

J is in this new ''ball up a fist and hit my thigh'' phase... i figure it''s just something about learning to control his limbs, but it looks so mean... like why is he hitting himself??!

and last nite he woke up once at 4am, put paci in and it fell out 5 min later, put it back in, fell out 5 min later so i just put the covers over my head -- lo and behold he only lightly fussed (moaned really) and then fell asleep within 15 min and slept til 7:50!

also for the last ~2 weeks when putting him down to bed he had started really flailing, moaning, playing... and it would sometimes take him 30 min to calm down--and i''d have to re enter like 2x to paci him again before he''d finally fall asleep. the last few nights its only taken about 5-10 min and i don''t even have to go in anymore, he will fall asleep more quickly. so i think he''s finally really learning to put himself down and hopefully learning at night he doesn''t need me to paci him either.

 

[TravelingGal]

I don't ever think sleep is black or white. As people say, too many variables. I do think a generally healthy baby makes a difference in terms of what I think will work with consistency.

My friend has triplets and it's fascinating to see them develop, and what's going on with sleep. E and C are fairly healthy, although E is a more independent baby than C. N is sickly and has more issues since birth. N cries more. N had a harder time eating and sleeping in the beginning.

So N gets held more. E and C have to make do. N absolutely loses if it he's not held (or carried on the back in the Korean backcarrier), and amazingly can wake up within 5 minutes of being put down, sound asleep, EVERY TIME. N is ALWAYS held, even when sleeping as he co-sleeps with his grandmother, has been since he was practically out of the womb. E and C are also held, but not nearly as much, and usually just left to play themselves if they are not fussing.

N had to be admitted into the hospital awhile back, where he couldn't be held constantly for several days. After a while, he stopped crying and was totally fine on his own and slept beautifully - my friend wondered where her normally fussy baby went. So the question is, was it because he couldn't be held there that he figured it out OR was it because they were somehow making him feel better? And if so, why did he do well for a couple of days at home, only to be undone when my friend's mom decided he needed to be held/carried again? Within a day, he was back to screaming his head off. Was it because he knew holding was back in the cards again or was it because he wasn't feeling well again? Or a little of both?

And E&C who were held in moderation are much better at putting themselves to sleep and sleep for longer stretches.

It's fascinating. What came first, the chicken or the egg, so to speak. Hard for me to say. I obviously think nature plays a huge factor, but because of the baby's nature, I think it's affected the type of nuture, which is in turn affecting his expectations. Very hard to say, but it's an interesting study, for sure.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 6/17/2010 11:01:48 AM
Author: PrettyBlues
I agree that so much depends on the kid, as well as the parents. As Burk said you can have the same parents, same plan and different results. I have seen it with my sister who has three kids.

Just because you have the same parents, I don''t think that can equate to the same plan. There are variables that may make a difference. The triplets scenario above, as well as people who have more than one child. Is the situation the same with the second child as the first? I don''t think it can be. Even if you try to sleep train them the same, I am not sure it can be the SAME, if you know what I mean. Can you pay attention to the second baby like you did with the first? Could one be as watchful for signs of sleepiness? Can naps and schedules be as consistent when it is not revolving only around one child? Would one be more inclined to pick up the baby when crying, so not to wake up the toddler?

All things I wonder about.

 

[vizsla]

oh no, TG/mara i totally get what you are saying.
*because* C was held all of the time when he *was* sick - i can see that expects it now for comfort. and cries when i won't give in to his demands
this is never more evident than when i put him to sleep. if i am close enough to him where he can touch me he's happy as a clam and would fall asleep in 5 mins. when i sit at the edge of the bed it takes him 30mins to calm down and when he *wants* to fall asleep he *wants* me to touch him. finally, when i'm out of the room completely he is beside himself - but if i come back into the room and put my hand on him he stops crying immediately. so i know he wants me to just be there when he is falling asleep.
he's learning .... and i'm learning..... but again, i wouldn't ever hesitate to be his 'crutch' - so to speak - when he's sick.
for our situation, we never had enough 'well' time to establish a more "agreeable" (for us) sleeping pattern.
and that's what it really comes down to. whatever works for the parents is what is best.
for us, we need to get him to stay asleep - and he's been naturally doing that after tubes (and maybe because he's getting older too??). and we need to tackle c sleeping by himself - again, because it would be better for DH and i and not because i don't think co-sleeping isn't an awesome experience or great option.

i think when you are a parent it is really easy to (for lack of a better word) judge other parent's decisions - that can be a slippery slope when you don't know all of the pieces of the puzzle.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 6/17/2010 11:49:03 AM
Author: vizsla
oh no, TG/mara i totally get what you are saying.
*because* C was held all of the time when he *was* sick - i can see that expects it now for comfort. and cries when i won''t give in to his demands
this is never more evident than when i put him to sleep. if i am close enough to him where he can touch me he''s happy as a clam and would fall asleep in 5 mins. when i sit at the edge of the bed it takes him 30mins to calm down and when he *wants* to fall asleep he *wants* me to touch him. finally, when i''m out of the room completely he is beside himself - but if i come back into the room and put my hand on him he stops crying immediately. so i know he wants me to just be there when he is falling asleep.
he''s learning .... and i''m learning..... but again, i wouldn''t ever hesitate to be his ''crutch'' - so to speak - when he''s sick.
for our situation, we never had enough ''well'' time to establish a more ''agreeable'' (for us) sleeping pattern.
and that''s what it really comes down to. whatever works for the parents is what is best.
for us, we need to get him to stay asleep - and he''s been naturally doing that after tubes (and maybe because he''s getting older too??). right now we need to tackle c sleeping by himself - again, because it would be better for DH and i and not because i don''t think co-sleeping isn''t an awesome experience or great option.

i think when you are a parent it is really easy to (for lack of a better word) judge other parent''s decisions - that can be a slippery slope when you don''t know all of the pieces of the puzzle.

Viz, I do agree. Especially seeing my friend''s son N. I would never suggest she try CIO with him while he is not well. Yes, it is affecting his expectations, but he is also for whatever reason (like being sick!) needs the extra TLC. She asks me to help her all the time, and I say I know nothing about sleep training multiples and don''t have much to say.

I do tell her though that if she''s going to try some of the stuff I did with Amelia, focus on the other two and leave N be for now.

I think all parents are judgmental to a degree. If you don''t find yourself judging about sleep, it may be about something else. And judging is probably the wrong word...it''s totally OK to have an OPINION. I consider judging if you make that opinion known, whether it be to the other parent, or even anyone else.

My general opinion TRULY has been that if what one is doing is working for them, then GREAT! Everyone is happy. But if one is unhappy and constantly complaining (not just simply venting), asking for advice, then refusing to take in any of it or even try something different, that''s when I start to judge that perhaps the parent isn''t that effective at finding a solution for the family. I have many, many social friends like this. The one right now who is getting on my nerves is the one whose son is hitting everyone and she hates it, but won''t do anything effective about it!