PS Mommy Thread-Newborn to 12 months!

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 7/19/2009 9:44:32 AM
Author: cdt1101
wow...lots of sleep talk

We are having a HORRIBLE time as well! Lex was up from 1:00am - 9:00 am today! My DH and I are ready to pull our hair out! Lex is NOT a great sleeper to begin w/...he''s always fussy, never sound asleep for more than 30 minutes...i think the reflux has a lot to do w/ that. But yesterday he napped REALLY well, so I was hopeful (you know sleep begets sleep thing), but the night was a pure nightmare! We cannot get him to go more than 3 hours between feeds even w/ trying to do the EASY cluster feeding thing before bed. Just doesn''t work. I''m starting to think E.A.S.Y. ain''t so EASY

Lex is 6 1/2 weeks so I''m not expecting much, but it would be nice to at least get 4-5 hours straight at night instead of just 2! And I have NO idea what happened last night....he''s still not asleep now, but quietly babbling to himself in his crib. I just don''t know how he can''t be tired at this point???

I know I''m rambling, but could use any advice! Maybe I''ll pick up another book because I''m not so sure about EASY for us! Do you think we are expecting too much of an almost 7 week old? Or should he be sleeping better at night and it''s us (DH and I) that has to change something?

Mela - Lex looks just like my DH too...so not fair..we carried them

CDT I think you can try to do small things, but at 6 weeks it may be too much to expect 4 hours between feeds! You are FF so you can tell exactly how muc hhe is getting... is he drinking a fair amount at each feed, even though they are close together? He may just need to feed more often! All babies are different. Hunter still needs to eat every 3 hours, sometimes we will go 4 but it really depends. As for the "not tired" thing, Pandora and more recently, I think, Fiery (??) both had kids who were "never tired" and it turned out they were missing the cues. Pandora maye can reiterate some of her ideas? But EASY may not work for you. I know now that Hunter is older we do EAESY because he is awake often 2.5 or 3 hours and sleeps 1.5 to 2, so can''t go from waking to waking without eating.

 

[cdt1101]

dreamer - I hear ya about missing cues..we were doing that. And I think I have a really good handle on his cues during the DAY, but the night is just awful! I cannot figure it out. I''d like to up his intake at each feeding but right now we can''t per doctor''s orders because of the reflux. But he still is getting anywhere from 24 - 28 oz a day before midnight even comes! so he "should" be well fueled for the nighttime. I don''t know....it''s very frustrating and i''m super tired. I''m just worried that it''ll never get better and I have to go back to work in November (i know i still have time), but I just don''t think I will be able to function like this when I go back to work!

Was Hunter better last night?

 

[mela lu]

Just a quicky here.

Blen - I totally see the resemblance to your uncle. WOW!!!

NYC - that tat sounds AMAZING! Cannot wait to see pics.

Pandora - Oh she''s SO sweet!!!!! Love that photo.

DD - I think your "modified" CIO (in DH arms) sounds like a GREAT idea. The thing is, CIO will only work if you do not give in and feed him. So, your (poor) DH will have to hold him until he falls back asleep. In theory though, Hunter will learn that he is not getting the boob, and in theory, his crying spells should progressively get shorter. Try it for a week. I think its a good "project"

. Easy for me to say.

re: EASY. If I fall off the EASY train, then all hell breaks loose. I really have to stick to it for it to work.

I like that there are such a wide variety of opinions here. Ob I dislike it when we all can''t get along, but I do think there is some value in hearing the spectrum of parenting styles. That''s my final thought. Jerry Springer, OUT.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 7/18/2009 10:42:05 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
Blen and Tacori I value both of your opinions and respect both opinions. FWIW, I didn''t read Blen''s comment as judgemental of parents who use CIO, but rather as a simple expression of her family''s reasons for not CIO. I have also not personally read comments in support of CIO as judging people who don''t do it. I think it is important to share every experience. I''m really sorry that either of you have felt judged about this issue, but I suspect that we all have felt that way sometimes, I know I have. It is hard not to with so many different points of view, but I doubt in most cases that the perceived slight wa intentional.


Some of my best friends used CIO, most actually, and I think when used correctly and at the right time in your child''s life it may really be a necessary and important tool. I certainly agree with Tacori that sleep is a learned skill. But for now I want to try and use other teaching tools, such as allowing Hunter to CIO in his father''s arms, which feels very different to me than crying on his own. We may transition to the more pure form of CIO when we are down to one wake up in the night.

I fear that as things stand now, jumping straight to CIO would result in a lot of crying at night and I''m not ready to do that yet.

DD just to add to the debate...make sure that in your effort to avoid CIO that you aren''t mistaking letting him CIO for him just being a tad upset.

I personally don''t like to let the boys get really worked up either. BUT I have learned that there are two VERY distinct "upset" cries. One is just mildly upset...maybe gas, or just startled themselves awake. When they cry like this I just let them go for a few minutes because they almost always fall right back asleep.

THEN there is the "I am SO UPSET mom and I am going to let the whole neighborhood hear it" cry. When they escalate it to this-or when they start out this way-I go to them pretty much right away because I know they are really upset.

We find this works well for us because you are going right away when they really need you but at the same time 90% of the time they aren''t really that upset so it allows them to self-soothe a bit. Best of both worlds IMO. And honestly-at least with my boys they don''t manipulate us. They hardly ever use the REALLY upset cry unless they need something-even if we let them CIO for a few minutes when they are only mildly upset. That lets me know that they didn''t REALLY need me KWIM? They let me KNOW when they really need me!

Now almost always the boys can fall right back asleep if they wake up-it''s great.

Anyway-sorry for the tome-and this might not work for babies who are really screamers or don''t have two levels of crying. But it works well for us and has allowed them to learn the important sleep habits while still making me feel like I am not letting them cry alone when they are really upset.

I think for most kids CIO isn''t an hours and hours long affair...but for those whose kid will scream for hours on end I think you just have to pick a method and commit whatever it is!

 

[neatfreak]

Quick HELLO to everyone else! It's moving weekend so things are nuts around here. My DH left on Friday with the furbabies to drive out to CA so I have been left on my own until Wednesday to handle both babies and the move. Ugh.

My DH promised me that he'd help get the apartment all in order before he left-and guess what? He didn't! So I am spending the majority of the boys nap time and once they go to sleep at night (thank god for 7pm bedtime) cleaning, sorting, throwing stuff away, etc. It is kind of cathartic for me...and I get to get rid of a lot of DH's crap that he's carted with him from house to house. But it's a lot of work.

But since he feels bad that he didn't follow through with helping me clean/sort he is going to buy me a DBTY necklace from BGD as soon as we get settled in the new house (it'll be a few months because we have to put some $ into the house first).

So he's out of the doghouse for now.

Anyway-tomorrow packers are coming, they load us on Tuesday, and the boys and I fly to CA on Wednesday! Should be a busy few days-at least I have a lot of great girlfriends who are coming over to bring meals and entertain the boys so I can clean and help the movers. I will miss them for sure. I am very thankful to be moving a town away from our very own lovely gal Gypsy though! It'll be fun to get together with her and her DH more often-they are both great people.

Please send over some dust tomorrow that the house closes before DH gets to CA with our pups! It was supposed to close on Friday but the lender hadn't called the insurance company to verify my policy yet

so it didn't close. I am SO pissed because I gave them that info 2 weeks ago. Ugh. Just hoping that it closes as expected tomorrow!

 

[Lorelei]

closing dust**************closing dust************closing dust**********

 

[Mrs]

hi moms! Lots of activity here for a weekend!

Mgal, I hope you''re having a great time in SD!

nycb, that''s great that you''re so pleased with your tat and that you took time for yourself! I agree 100% that in order to be a good caretaker, one needs to take good care of one''s self in addition to caring for the baby.

cdt, I''m glad to hear your Lex is napping better but I''m sorry last night was so bad! I think S was still waking up a lot at 6 1/2 weeks... I hope he starts sleeping better soon!

Mela, I''m so sorry to hear that BFing is still hurting. I hope you''re able to figure it out soon since it stinks to be in pain like that! Your DH as a baby and Romy look so much alike it''s crazy! so cute!

Fiery, I cant believe your in laws come to visit so late! What a nightmare! You cracked me up with that "happiest mother-in-law on the block"comment! too funny! I''m glad you''ve got a sense of humor about it but I do agree with the others that you should probably try to curtail the late visits if you can. Your sleep (and Sophia''s) is so important right now.

DD, How did last night go? Were you able to wait until 3AM to feed as you had planned? Sage and I have had a similar regression ever since we got sick. She was getting up at least 3 times a night for a while but just last night she only got up once! It was wonderful. One thing that I think I have learned in the last few nights has to do with temperature. For a while we weren''t using the AC since I was worried about Sage getting cold but we now keep the AC on at night set to 73 degrees and I have turned off the air in her room. I read that the ideal temp for a nursery is 61-69 degrees - that seems too cold to me but I started sleeping with the AC anyway. I think She was too warm when we weren''t using the AC and then when we did start using the AC, I think she was too cold in just her sleep gown. For the last two nights I''ve had her sleeping in her gown plus a sleep sack and I think she''s more comfortable - not too hot or cold which means she sleeps better. Perhaps Hunter is similarly sensitive to the temperature and you could try modifying what he wears to bed to see if it makes a difference.

TDM, It seems like you and I are dealing with similar sleep issues with our little ones! And like you, I have to do all the night wakings which is just really tough. I completely agree with you that staying home with a baby is really hard work... now that I am unemployed, I''m kinda nervous about being home. I think I''ll probably go back to work sooner than later (if I can) but I''ll be home for at least 2 mos and as much as I''m looking forward to it, I''m also kinda scared and overwhelmed.... Anyway, congrats on getting A to sleep in his crib for 5 min the other day! Sage still fights napping in her crib as well but every now and then I''m able to get her to do it. Keep trying and let us know how it does and I''ll do the same!

neat, congrats on the move!! I hope the move and plane trip this week goes well. I''m so impressed that you will fly with both boys on your own! I''m scared to fly with just one WITH DH much less on my own! Yay for a new necklace! can''t wait to see it!

pandora, great new pic! Daisy is beautiful! I''m sorry she was fussy due to the shots the other day but it sounds like she''s doing really well besides that. I''m also sorry you''re STILL dealing with the legal stuff. I hope it''s resolved (in your favor) soon!

blen, did you enjoy Harry Potter the other day? That pic of you when you were a baby is cute and I actually agree with your mom that there certainly is a resemblance between you and George!

tacori, thanks for your thoughts on CIO. We all value your input here and certainly want you to feel comfortable sharing your experiences! How early would you recommend trying that method for those of us who are inclined to do so?

puffy, thanks for your thoughts as well!

We''re doing okay here. S took her shots relatively well the other day. She weighed in at 13 lbs 10 oz (50th percentile) and measured 23 1/2" long (22nd percentile) so she''s kind of petite and certainly less heavy than I expected - she has lots of rolls and feels like a ton... The pedi prescribed more antibiotics since her chest is still so congested as well as some cough medicine. if she isn''t better in 5 days we might do a chest xray...

I think Sage might be getting a tooth since she''s been a little more fussy than usual and she keeps chewing on her paci instead of sucking on it.

She hasn''t rolled over again which is fine by me since it sounds like our sleep troubles may increase when she does!

we took her in the pool again yesterday and she seemed to like it this time. DH was so excited - as soon as we came home and ordered her a floaty thing with a canopy.

I''m still feeling conflicted about what to do next in terms of my career. I think I''ll take at least 2 mos off but if i can get another job ASAP after that, I think that''s what I''ll do. There''s a part of me that wants to stay home and another part of me that feels like I should find work if I can... And another part of me wants to have another baby right away since we know we want to have two. (I know that''s kinda crazy) As much as it scares me to have another so soon, there''s a part of me that feels like we might as well just do it since having two will be difficult whenever we do decide to and as long as I''m out of work.... etc. We''ll see. I don''t really want to be BFing AND pregnant though so we''ll probably wait a while longer. Anyone else thinking about #2 yet?

Anyway, I''m feeling really fortunate to have such a sweet little girl. She''s lots of fun these days - very chatty and smiley. She doesn''t cry nearly as much as she did when she was really small. She''s also very cuddly and kinda holds on when I have her on my shoulder which is nice.

I hope you''re all well!
Mrs

 

[Mrs]

DD, I also wanted to say thanks for posting your birth story on the other thread! What a super woman you are! WOW!

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Date: 7/19/2009 11:15:50 AM
Author: Mrs

tacori, thanks for your thoughts on CIO. We all value your input here and certainly want you to feel comfortable sharing your experiences! How early would you recommend trying that method for those of us who are inclined to do so?

Thank you. I appreciate that. I read and followed the HSHHC book and he says 4 months is when sleep training can start so that is what I did. My own pedi said there is NO reason a healthy child should not be STTN at 6 months so that was my goal. She JUST made it. Life is easier when the whole family is getting sleep. Sounds like S is a sweet little girl. Hope you figure out what you want to do (in terms of career) soon. Being a mom is a juggling at for sure!

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 7/19/2009 10:06:51 AM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Date: 7/19/2009 9:44:32 AM
Author: cdt1101
wow...lots of sleep talk

We are having a HORRIBLE time as well! Lex was up from 1:00am - 9:00 am today! My DH and I are ready to pull our hair out! Lex is NOT a great sleeper to begin w/...he''s always fussy, never sound asleep for more than 30 minutes...i think the reflux has a lot to do w/ that. But yesterday he napped REALLY well, so I was hopeful (you know sleep begets sleep thing), but the night was a pure nightmare! We cannot get him to go more than 3 hours between feeds even w/ trying to do the EASY cluster feeding thing before bed. Just doesn''t work. I''m starting to think E.A.S.Y. ain''t so EASY

Lex is 6 1/2 weeks so I''m not expecting much, but it would be nice to at least get 4-5 hours straight at night instead of just 2! And I have NO idea what happened last night....he''s still not asleep now, but quietly babbling to himself in his crib. I just don''t know how he can''t be tired at this point???

I know I''m rambling, but could use any advice! Maybe I''ll pick up another book because I''m not so sure about EASY for us! Do you think we are expecting too much of an almost 7 week old? Or should he be sleeping better at night and it''s us (DH and I) that has to change something?

Mela - Lex looks just like my DH too...so not fair..we carried them

CDT I think you can try to do small things, but at 6 weeks it may be too much to expect 4 hours between feeds! You are FF so you can tell exactly how muc hhe is getting... is he drinking a fair amount at each feed, even though they are close together? He may just need to feed more often! All babies are different. Hunter still needs to eat every 3 hours, sometimes we will go 4 but it really depends. As for the ''not tired'' thing, Pandora and more recently, I think, Fiery (??) both had kids who were ''never tired'' and it turned out they were missing the cues. Pandora maye can reiterate some of her ideas? But EASY may not work for you. I know now that Hunter is older we do EAESY because he is awake often 2.5 or 3 hours and sleeps 1.5 to 2, so can''t go from waking to waking without eating.

I think formula fed babies are meant to sleep longer at each stretch than breastfed as it takes longer to digest, but even so 4 to 5 hours seems a lot at 6 weeks.

At the moment I generally get Daisy to sleep about 1-2 hours in the daytime. Then I''ll get 3 and sometimes 4 hours from when she''s put down for the night (but that includes a dream feed an hour or so in), she''s then half-awake for 15 minutes to feed and back for another 3 hours - and she''s 9 weeks.

When you feed him at night, are you having to get up and make bottles etc or do you have one ready next to your bed?

When I feed Daisy at night, I try to respond while she''s still talking to herself and before she starts crying so she''s not totally awake and then she''ll fall fast asleep while I''m feeding her - part of that will be the oxytocin, but I did find that when I was giving her a bottle that she drinks it very fast and it seemed to wake her up rather than lulling her to sleep. It was better if I only let her drink it really slowly with lots of pauses - but some babies would probably get frustrated by that. If I had to get up to make up a bottle she got way too wide-awake and we''d be up for several hours before she''d go back to sleep again.

With the daytime sleeping, I work on calculating how long she has been awake so that after 1.5 to 2 hours I can start to look out for the signals: staring into space, yawning, the cough, cough, cough cry, general whinginess and often no signal at all

. Even when I spot the signals I normally have to help her get to sleep and that can sometimes take up to an hour. It''s only the last week that there have been a couple of occasions where she''s put herself to sleep.

I think you are probably expecting a bit too much at this age, but it''s possibly worth trying another method to see what happens.

Whoever said that babies sleep 16 hours a day deserves to be shot for giving us all false hope!

 

[DivaDiamond007]

Date: 7/19/2009 10:35:25 AM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 7/18/2009 10:42:05 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
Blen and Tacori I value both of your opinions and respect both opinions. FWIW, I didn''t read Blen''s comment as judgemental of parents who use CIO, but rather as a simple expression of her family''s reasons for not CIO. I have also not personally read comments in support of CIO as judging people who don''t do it. I think it is important to share every experience. I''m really sorry that either of you have felt judged about this issue, but I suspect that we all have felt that way sometimes, I know I have. It is hard not to with so many different points of view, but I doubt in most cases that the perceived slight wa intentional.


Some of my best friends used CIO, most actually, and I think when used correctly and at the right time in your child''s life it may really be a necessary and important tool. I certainly agree with Tacori that sleep is a learned skill. But for now I want to try and use other teaching tools, such as allowing Hunter to CIO in his father''s arms, which feels very different to me than crying on his own. We may transition to the more pure form of CIO when we are down to one wake up in the night.

I fear that as things stand now, jumping straight to CIO would result in a lot of crying at night and I''m not ready to do that yet.

DD just to add to the debate...make sure that in your effort to avoid CIO that you aren''t mistaking letting him CIO for him just being a tad upset.

I personally don''t like to let the boys get really worked up either. BUT I have learned that there are two VERY distinct ''upset'' cries. One is just mildly upset...maybe gas, or just startled themselves awake. When they cry like this I just let them go for a few minutes because they almost always fall right back asleep.

THEN there is the ''I am SO UPSET mom and I am going to let the whole neighborhood hear it'' cry. When they escalate it to this-or when they start out this way-I go to them pretty much right away because I know they are really upset.

We find this works well for us because you are going right away when they really need you but at the same time 90% of the time they aren''t really that upset so it allows them to self-soothe a bit. Best of both worlds IMO. And honestly-at least with my boys they don''t manipulate us. They hardly ever use the REALLY upset cry unless they need something-even if we let them CIO for a few minutes when they are only mildly upset. That lets me know that they didn''t REALLY need me KWIM? They let me KNOW when they really need me!

Now almost always the boys can fall right back asleep if they wake up-it''s great.

Anyway-sorry for the tome-and this might not work for babies who are really screamers or don''t have two levels of crying. But it works well for us and has allowed them to learn the important sleep habits while still making me feel like I am not letting them cry alone when they are really upset.

I think for most kids CIO isn''t an hours and hours long affair...but for those whose kid will scream for hours on end I think you just have to pick a method and commit whatever it is!

I''ve been mostly lurking, but I''ll comment on the CIO debate.

DH and I have started using CIO with James (he''s 1) because it''s the only thing that has sort of worked for us. I *hate* listening to him cry and it breaks my heart, but he''s gotta learn how to self-soothe. So far, it''s working. As Neat mentioned, we''ve learned to differentiate between different types of cries. Sometimes he is just tossing and turning while whining, so we don''t go in to check on him. Other times he starts screaming bloody murder so we go in after about 2 minutes. If he''s just "complaining" then we give him about 10 minutes before we go in to check on him. He''s now waking only about once per night for a bottle and then sleeping until about 7am (goes to bed around 8pm). That''s a vast improvement from waking 3-4 times a night for a 4oz bottle!

I think the main point is that we all have to do what''s best for our own families. We are ALL good moms here so let''s not forget that

 

[cdt1101]

Pandora - thanks for responding...so I think i''m expecting too much. I just wanted to get a feel for what the rest of you were going thru w/ older babies then Lex. At night I make the bottle before I even go into the room, no lights on and only change him if I feel it absolutely necessary. He pees A LOT though, so more often than not, I change him as well, which he HATES. So that never goes well

But one night I tried to see if I could go w/ not changing and he ended up peeing all over himself and me while I was feeding him (diaper was obviously too full). The thing is, is that he also HATES to be burped, and when i say hates, I mean cries and cries the entire time. Not fuss, but crying....LOUD! And we have to burp him, so if I feed him at night it just gets him so wound up between the changing and burping process. He''s only quiet when he eats. And I agree, the 16 hour thing is a crock! Lex NO WAY sleeps that much, not even when we first brought him home. And unfortunately he just seems to be cranky...most of the time

My DH says if he wasn''t our kid, he would find him really annoying. Like the kid you don''t want to be around

He really is a handful!

 

[lili]

cdt--
this is probably not good practice, but when i had to change j's saturated diaper in the middle of the night, i usually just skip the wipe step since that seem to wake her up.
Out w/ the wet diaper and popped in the dry one -- no diaper wipe. and she'd sleep right through it.

 

[Blenheim]

DD - I also hope that Hunter did better last night.

NF - We let George fuss if he''s just fussing, but if he''s actually upset we go tend to him as soon as we can. But definitely a good point!
That sucks about closing - I''m also sprinkling some closing dust for you!

Mrs - we did go see Harry Potter! I really enjoyed it, although they left our certain details that make me wonder how they''re going to be able to do later films. Although, I''m sure they wouldn''t have done that if they didn''t have something particular in mind, you know?
We''re going through a lot of the same conflicts right now - with both working and child spacing. My midwife said that milk supply often takes a big hit around 12-15 weeks pregnant, so from that standpoint she wouldn''t recommend that I get pregnant before George is 9 months old. I''m not sure what your long-term nursing goals are, though. My middie also has told me that some of her moms who space closer together tell her that they wish that they had taken the time to regain tone (abs and pelvic floor) before getting pregnant again, but that you can do it relatively quickly if you put your mind to it. Just some things to think about. Not that it makes it any easier to come to a good answer!

Diaper changes... do other people wipe every time? Is this something we should be doing? We just wipe if it''s dirty.

We actually went by the local baby store today to ask for diapering advice, as G has now leaked out 3 nights in a row. The boy just won''t tell me when he''s wet. When I described what we''re currently doing they said it sounds like we have a heavy wetter on our hands, and gave us some tips for that. (Even more hemp, maybe a higher rise setting.) Let''s hope tonight''s better... I''m tired of the two of us waking up in a puddle!

 

[Dreamer_D]

More later but re wiping according to health canada you do not need to wipe if it is only pee, since pee is sterile, just let it air dry a little before putting on the new diaper. This is what we have been doing and so far so good!

 

[DivaDiamond007]

CDT - We don''t change James in the middle of the night unless he pees through. For a long time though we had to because he pees so much. Have you tried any of the overnight diapers? We use Huggies and they work really well for us.

Re: wiping - we wipe at every change. These days it''s always a wrestling match to get him changed

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 7/18/2009 8:51:10 PM
Author: Blenheim
NYC - OMG! What does it look like? Where is it?

Mela - They really do look exactly the same. That''s really cool that you could find that.

DD - We won''t do CIO for similar reasons. We value kindness and compassion, and we don''t want to teach George that it''s okay to ignore people who are crying. So if you''re silly, then we are too. I hear that the No Cry Sleep Solution is really good if you want more non-CIO methods in your arsenol... I haven''t read it yet (DH was supposed to put a hold on it at the library) but I''m reading her discipline book right now.

gadzooks, that actually made me laugh.

Blen, I hope (and know) you will be able to diffentiate types of crying and figure out that some of it isn''t worth responding to. Because I reckon since I''ve always thought you were a bright girl, you have a bright son who is going to figure out that crying = getting what he wants = evolving into some crazy tantrums if you respond to every cry and whimper.

DD, another thing to throw in your arsenal - it probably is too early for this but if Hunter is CONSISTENTLY not napping for one of his naps, it could be that he needs one less nap a day. I watched Amelia skip naps daily for a week to two weeks before I cut. This worked beautifully for both 3 to 2 naps and 2 to 1.

Also with summer, a lot of kids have a harder time sleeping because of the heat.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 7/18/2009 9:30:41 PM
Author: Blenheim

Date: 7/18/2009 9:23:48 PM
Author: Tacori E-ring

Date: 7/18/2009 9:14:35 PM
Author: Blenheim
Tacori, we''re just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I''m glad that you found techniques that worked well for you and your family.

I agree but think it might be more thoughtful not to openly judge other people''s parenting. DD''s situation is not working and she was asking for help. I told her what worked for us.

I''ve just seen several mentions on here about how sometimes CIO is necessary to teach children how to sleep - which carries the implication that if you''re not doing it, then you''re doing a disservice to your children. DD has expressed that she has reservations about CIO and would prefer to try other methods first, and I was trying to express to her that we feel similarly about CIO potentially teaching children things that we don''t want to teach them, and recommended a source that I''ve heard is really good if you''re looking for sleep techniques that don''t involve CIO. I really don''t see how I''m being more judgmental than other people on here have been.

I don''t recall ever reading such a thing (although that doesn''t mean it wasn''t said, since I skim a lot) It is absolutely not NECESSARY to teach children how to sleep. CONSISTENCY is necessary. Unfortunately, with sleep deprivation it''s really easy to not be the best at consistency early on. Once certain habits are in place (many of them happen inadventertly by the parents), CIO is just ONE tool to try and teach babies that sleep time is sleep time. It doesn''t work for every family, but it DOES work for some and babies are not going to hate you, think it''s OK if people cry, etc.

No one has said if you don''t use CIO, you''re spoiling your kid and obviously not teaching them how to sleep. Because obviously that is not true. In fact, I am very impressed how all of the latest crop of new moms have managed (and I mean, SERIOUSLY impressed!) and all are using different techniques to help their babies learn to sleep.

And for the record, HSHHC says from the getgo, if you make sleep a priority and be consistent, you should not have to CIO. I did not have to CIO with her at ALL to train her how to sleep through the night. I DID have to CIO much much later at over a year old (have only done it twice) when she started throwing tizzy fits because she decided staying up was much more fun. A couple of times of leaving her be nipped that right in the bud and she''s back to being fine when we put her down for bed.

 

[Blenheim]

Date: 7/19/2009 10:52:46 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 7/18/2009 9:30:41 PM
Author: Blenheim

Date: 7/18/2009 9:23:48 PM
Author: Tacori E-ring

Date: 7/18/2009 9:14:35 PM
Author: Blenheim
Tacori, we''re just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I''m glad that you found techniques that worked well for you and your family.

I agree but think it might be more thoughtful not to openly judge other people''s parenting. DD''s situation is not working and she was asking for help. I told her what worked for us.

I''ve just seen several mentions on here about how sometimes CIO is necessary to teach children how to sleep - which carries the implication that if you''re not doing it, then you''re doing a disservice to your children. DD has expressed that she has reservations about CIO and would prefer to try other methods first, and I was trying to express to her that we feel similarly about CIO potentially teaching children things that we don''t want to teach them, and recommended a source that I''ve heard is really good if you''re looking for sleep techniques that don''t involve CIO. I really don''t see how I''m being more judgmental than other people on here have been.

I don''t recall ever reading such a thing (although that doesn''t mean it wasn''t said, since I skim a lot) It is absolutely not NECESSARY to teach children how to sleep. CONSISTENCY is necessary. Unfortunately, with sleep deprivation it''s really easy to not be the best at consistency early on. Once certain habits are in place (many of them happen inadventertly by the parents), CIO is just ONE tool to try and teach babies that sleep time is sleep time. It doesn''t work for every family, but it DOES work for some and babies are not going to hate you, think it''s OK if people cry, etc.

No one has said if you don''t use CIO, you''re spoiling your kid and obviously not teaching them how to sleep. Because obviously that is not true. In fact, I am very impressed how all of the latest crop of new moms have managed (and I mean, SERIOUSLY impressed!) and all are using different techniques to help their babies learn to sleep.

And for the record, HSHHC says from the getgo, if you make sleep a priority and be consistent, you should not have to CIO. I did not have to CIO with her at ALL to train her how to sleep through the night. I DID have to CIO much much later at over a year old (have only done it twice) when she started throwing tizzy fits because she decided staying up was much more fun. A couple of times of leaving her be nipped that right in the bud and she''s back to being fine when we put her down for bed.

Re: teaching him to throw tantrums - I said before that we don''t always rush to him if he''s fussy - just if he actually sounds like he needs us. And I fully acknowledged that our reasoning may be silly, and you just confirmed it! But seriously, it goes against our instincts and we don''t feel like it''s necessary so we''re still not going to do it.

And I''d just like to apologize to everyone. Thinking more, I''ve had at least five people IRL tell me the highlighted part above (unprompted, by the way). Same thing about picking him up if he wants to be held and I''m able to hold him. At least one of them regularly left her kids to CIO past the vomiting stage, so we''re also talking more extreme than I''ve seen any one on here mention. I think that (a) all of the criticism is starting to make me a little sensitive to the subject, and (b) I''m getting confused about sources, particularly if no one else on here has gotten that message from what''s been written. And I''m not about to go through all of the pages on this thread and the old general mommy thread just to make sure.

So, I''m very sorry if I''ve been putting words into people''s mouths. It was not my intention at all.

By the way - all of those people were coworkers. This is another reason why I''m getting very anxious about hearing back about that job for DH.

 

[kennedy]

Blen -- I totally understand where you're coming from. We, too, had TONS of pressure to try CIO. I had one friend who would bring it up literally every time we spoke during the first year of my daughter's life. It does appear that more people than not use this technique. I'm sorry to say we did try it when my daughter was 15 months. I'm sure many would say that was simply too late, but it was an awful experience for all of us. We were VERY consistent for 3 full weeks and my daughter continued to cry for VERY LONG stretches every single night. I'm deeply ashamed that we didn't stop it earlier, but we were desperate and were doing it under the guidance of a so-called "sleep expert" who assured us it would work. I think it probably works best on very young babies, but I do believe that, for babies who simply are not ready to sleep through the night, it will come at a pretty high cost. I absolutely reject the idea that all babies SHOULD be sleeping through the night by 6 months. In fact, research suggests that frequent night wakings actually serve a purpose. Some say that babies need the stimulation of frequent wakings to assist in normal neurologic function that controls breathing. Also, given that SIDS is related to a diminished arousal response, babies who wake frequently are thought to be at a reduced risk of SIDS. All of this is to say that it's very normal for a baby not to sleep through the night and, in fact, it might be good for your baby.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 7/20/2009 7:28:44 AM
Author: Blenheim

Re: teaching him to throw tantrums - I said before that we don''t always rush to him if he''s fussy - just if he actually sounds like he needs us. And I fully acknowledged that our reasoning may be silly, and you just confirmed it! But seriously, it goes against our instincts and we don''t feel like it''s necessary so we''re still not going to do it.

And I''d just like to apologize to everyone. Thinking more, I''ve had at least five people IRL tell me the highlighted part above (unprompted, by the way). Same thing about picking him up if he wants to be held and I''m able to hold him. At least one of them regularly left her kids to CIO past the vomiting stage, so we''re also talking more extreme than I''ve seen any one on here mention. I think that (a) all of the criticism is starting to make me a little sensitive to the subject, and (b) I''m getting confused about sources, particularly if no one else on here has gotten that message from what''s been written. And I''m not about to go through all of the pages on this thread and the old general mommy thread just to make sure.

So, I''m very sorry if I''ve been putting words into people''s mouths. It was not my intention at all.

By the way - all of those people were coworkers. This is another reason why I''m getting very anxious about hearing back about that job for DH.

Blen, I do appreciate your apology, although I wasn''t offended at what you said (I was just surprised to read it!)

All you have as a mom are your instincts. You should trust them no matter what anyone says because it is YOUR child. We all have our opinions on parenting styles, and I think that''s OK, as long as we are civil about it (and that''s not always easy because I think most moms are pretty passionate about parenting!) I even think that all moms are judgmental to a degree because we spend so much effort trying our best and therefore *my* way must be the best way because if it is not, then it must mean I am not a good mom, right?

And I know it''s hard, but I hope no one is put off if people suggest CIO here. People are trying to be helpful because it''s something that DID work for them and their kids all seem fine. I know as a mom who was sleep deprived, I honestly FEEL for mothers who go through it and just want to toss out as many ideas as possible that may help, and I''m sure I''ve sounded offensive about my opinions at one point or another.

 

[sbde]

mustanggal - glad kyle's taking well to the new foods. it's soo cute to see the faces they make when trying something new eh?

cdt1101 - glad to hear EASY is working well for you so far, and the new formula is helping lex! i do agree with DD on the sleep issue, 6.5 weeks is still young, he may need feeding more often than every 4 hrs.

blen - from what i know, baby food proc's are just smaller to allow for making small quantities of food at a time, and the blades are much lower in the base for the same reason. i think something like the "magic bullet" would do the job just as well.i guess i needed one because i didn't want to pull out my full sizes food proc each time i needed to make baby food! with the new one i can just make 1-2 servings of puree'd veggies as i need them. i'm also starting to think about baby # 2 like you and mrs. so much to think about re: spacing and everything that a second child entails.

fiery - i'm appalled by your MIL's behaviour! how on earth can they think it is ok to drop by at 9 PM - wow! i hope you guys are able to set some boundaries with them, and that they will get the hint after your hubby asks them to leave a few more times.

nycbkgirl - lol @ your DH. they can be so clueless sometimes - i actually left J home with daddy for the first time ever. yes, at 6 mths old haha! he did a great job taking care of J though yay for your tattoo! do we get to see a pic?

neatfreak - congrats on the house, it must be so exciting now that you've signed!! good luck with the packing and move - you deserve that DBTY necklace!

pandora - beautiful picture!! daisy is adorable.

dd - you've gotten tons of sleep advice here, i hope it helps! i do think that it's just the 4-5 mth sleep regression that i hear so many babies go through because hunter was such a champion sleeper before. hopefully this will pass and he will go back to his old ways soon enough.

mela - IDENTICAL PICS, wow that is uncanny!

mrs - so cute that sage is loving the water now. it's so sweet to read what you've said about her becoming more fun, it's just so cool when you realize all of a sudden that the baby has gone from not doing too much to being this little bundle of awareness and activity and responsiveness.

kennedy - very interesting stuff re: sleeping. i think i've taken a very passive approach towards sleep training. i really feel like J doesn't really *want* to wake up @ night, so if he does it is because he needs something. luckily this has worked for us in the sense that he is sleeping at night for longer and longer stretches. all we do is ensure consistency with his bedtime routine and put him to sleep at the same time each night. he still wakes up once or twice in a 14 hr night but i can tell that he needs that feeding and he goes to sleep within 2 minutes of drinking milk. i think we're going to continue this method of letting him settle into his sleep routine on his own and not worry too much if he isn't sleeping through the night at 6 mths just because children at his age "should" be. the way i see it, all babies are different anyways so it's just a matter of finding out what works for your individual baby.

phew, all caught up i think! things are well with us - 6 month appointment tomorrow so i will report back with stats then. hope everyone is having a great Monday!!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Update

So we have been experimenting and trying different things the last couple days and I thought that some of you may like to hear about what we have tried and maybe it can help you too.

On Saturday during the day I made sure not to nurse Hunter to sleep, putting him down always with eyes open, but we still do EAESY now because he is awake close to 3 hours between naps now. That time plus a two hour nap is too long for him without eating, so he ends up eating about every 3 hours.

Saturday night I dream fed him at 10 pm and then at midnight he woke. DH went in and attempted to pick-up put-down, but that wasn't gonna happen

Hunter was in a really hysterical mode! But I knew he had only eaten about 2 hours earlier so I didn't nurse him. DH ended up holding him for close to 25 minutes while be cried. That was a horrible 25 minutes! Eventually, I went to the door and motioned for him to just put Hunter down so that he and I could talk about what we wanted to do... within a few minutes of being put down, Hunter started calming down and went to sleep after about 5 minutes of crying with longer and longer pauses. At 3am he woke again and I fed him, and he drank a lot! He then slept until 7am, his usual wake up time! So all told a good night compared to the previous and I felt like we learned a lot.

So that night marked our first big discovery -- crying in Dad's arms does NOT work! LOL! We think now that when we try to "help" him it actually interrupts his own efforts to try and calm down. So we decided that unless he sounds hysterical we will not go in and help him, as he seems to calm down on his own better and in a relatively short time.

Yesterday he napped really well again -- two two hour naps and a 30 minute nap in the early evening (his usual pattern). Last night we put him down and he woke at 9:30. We decided to give him 10 minutes to settle, and he wasn't hysterically crying, just moaning, groaning, crying, coughing, complaining. His crying/complaining did get more and more insistent, and just when we thought that he was not going to calm down, after 7 minutes it stopped and he was asleep! We were very happy. He woke again at midnight and we let him go for about 7 minutes but he sounded more wild than before and I knew he hadn't eaten well before bed (he ate a tonne at 6pm and not much at 7:30) so I thought it was *possible* that he was hungry. I went in and fed him and although he ate a fair bit, he was not awake and obviously didn't need to be fed. At 4 am he woke again and we let him go for about 5 minutes but he sounded a little hysterical again, so I fed him and he really ate well for about 20 minutes. So obviously at 12am he did *not* need to eat, but I think he needs a 4am feed still which I am ok with.

Today I made a good discovery and Hunter's own particular pattern of falling asleep. I put him down for his nap and he groaned and moaned and complained and seemed to get more and more worked up, so I went in and picked him up and then put him down when he was calm. But he got all worked up again, and I picked him up and put him down calm, but he got worked up again! So I decided to give it 10 minutes and see what would happen. He started sounding fairly hysterical after about 5 minutes and then he fell asleep.

Little stinker like the fake out apparently, because we would ordinarily go in and pick him up when he sounded hysterical, that's what we did the night before, but apparently hysteria preceded sleep for him

All told he complained and cried for about 5 minutes.

So now that I know that we will leave him longer tonight, though I will still feed him at 4am. When all the earlier wakeups are gone we will consider phasing out the 4am wake up, but one step at a time.

ETA moved to next post

 

[Dreamer_D]

Tandogmom I wonder with A whether he is like Hunter, and you need to just persist in waiting past his peak? It seems that from the moment Hunter starts grumbling to falling to sleep is only about 5-7 minutes, which is not very long, but he sure gets worked up in the moment before sleep comes! How long have you been waiting with A before you give in and nurse him? I was always giving in when Hunter got hysterical, then he would fall asleep the instant the boob touched his lips -- I now know he would have fallen asleep on his own if I hadn''t intervened

CDT I know it is frustrating but it will get better. You just have to keep trying and be as consistent as you can be. Hopefully, like all of us have at one time, you will stumble on something that will really help you out! It sounds like Lex is a "grumpy" baby

! The baby whisperer calls such babies "old souls" and I think that is so fitting for some babies!

Mela Yup, complete dopplegangers! Hunter looks just like me, I''ll try to find comparison pics.

Neatfreak Good luck with closing! I am so jealous you found a great house, I hope we do too. I think you are right about the 2 different cries. As I said in my previous post, Hunter seems to get pretty hysterical for about 30 seconds before he sleeps... I wonder if when he really needs something that hysteria will either start immediately or will continue? Not sure. I feel happy that we figured out how long we need to wait before helping him, I really do think that helping him learn to sleep is a gift. But I don''t want to make him suffer either, so it is a hard and fine line to walk sometimes!

Mrs I think temperature matters, but we don''t have AC and it is hard to get it just right! I''m glad sage is calming down now that she is getting older. Too cute that she chats a lot. Hunter sings and makes lots of humming type noises, and laughs, but he isn''t a babbler yet. As for thinking about number 2

Noooo, not yet. Sometimes I don''t even know if I want another one! LOL! The physical recovery for me is taking a long time and I an so hesiatant to do that again!

Diva I''m glad that James is waking less! Our friend''s son is also a big boy and he needed a middle of the night bottle too until he was over a year. I know they say bigger kids can sleep through the night earlier, but I think that applies more the fatter kids, not just bigger boys like our sons, who probably have large caloric needs and higher metabolisms.

Blen Hunter needs a change in the night now too or he leaks through. Sorry about the CIO pressure, any type of parenting pressure sucks. We got that too a lot when people at DH''s work found out we planned to co sleep

TGal Yes, I think Hunter may not take an evening nap for too much longer, and we have already stretched the time between naps to closer to 3 hours. Now he naps from 10 to 12, 2-4, and the takes a little cat nap around 5:30.

Kennedy I read similar research. I suspect that Hunter will not sleep through the night completely by six months as I think he needs one feed at night. But I would still like to do what I can to eliminate the other 1-4 wakeups! LOL! I want to respond to him and at the same time teach him to sleep.

SBDE I think HUnter will sleep well again, but it is a learning curve for sure sometimes for all of us!

 

[MustangGal]

Really busy at work, so I don''t have time to respond to everyone, sorry!

All the sleep issues around here suck! I''m sorry ladies! Kyle''s been really good about sleeping, so I''ll send some sleepy vibes out to the restless babies

We survived San Diego, and had a lot of fun. The car rides went pretty well, and Kyle actually did amazing on the way back, which I thought was going to be the worst. He slept about 1.5 of the 2 hours from San Diego to Palm Springs, where we stopped and visited with DH''s family, then he slept 3 of the 4 hours back to Phoenix!

We took him down to the beach on Friday, and got a few pics sitting on a boogie board in a few inches of water. The whole weekend I only got in up to my knees, I ended up hanging out with my mom and the baby while DH went off surfing with his friends. I''ll et pics downloaded tonight and post some tomorrow.

 

[sbde]

style="WIDTH: 99%; HEIGHT: 112px">Date: 7/20/2009 11:47:09 AM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Kennedy I read similar research. I suspect that Hunter will not sleep through the night completely by six months as I think he needs one feed at night. But I would still like to do what I can to eliminate the other 1-4 wakeups! LOL! I want to respond to him and at the same time teach him to sleep.

DD, i feel exactly the same, as you can read in my response to Kennedy. I think we all have read the labels of when kids *should* be sleeping through the night but at the end of the day those are just guidelines, and we all know our babies better than anyone else and should follow our instincts. glad to hear last night was better for you all!

 

[cdt1101]

Dreamer - Grumpy baby indeed! He has his moments where he smiles and coos, but for the most part he is just not happy...unfortunate, since my DH is such a clown I was hoping he''d take after him! Apparently though he seems more like me...stubborn and has to get his way

Glad this weekend seemed better for Hunter!!!

I''ll consider yesterday a success. Lex napped REALLY well all day. We kept him up for a good 2 hour stretch leading up to bedtime. Fed him, he slept from 8:00 - 11:30, ate, slept from 12:30 - 3:00, ate, slept again from 4:00 - 6:00...not so bad! so really I was only up at 3 and 6 (my DH does the feed before midnight). I realized after I posted yesterday that if I just lower my expectations a little, things seem more manageable for me. One step at a time and for now, we''ll stick w/ EASY for awhile longer and see how it goes.

I just wanted to comment too that I personally appreciate all advice from both new moms and the moms w/ toddlers! I certainly have no freakin clue so it''s nice to hear what''s worked for others, no matter what method!

 

[nycbkgirl]

MRS- im so happy everything is going well with S! i think u should follow ur heart when it comes to deciding to work or stay home a little..its a tough decision buti hope u do whats best for u!

@ wanting another baby lol...bless u! i know its rougher for me bc i have 2 at once but no wayyyy do i want anymore

DD- im glad u are finding methods that work bc imo reading a book and practicing what is said isnt always the way to go..u just have to find what works best for ur baby bc every baby is totally different! i wish u continued success!

MGAL- yay for a good trip! pics plzzzz

AFM- cant complain on the sleep front ...they basically sleep 6 or 7 hrs a nite...i try to put them down a little later (i.e. 11pm -6 or 7am)...bc i dont like waking up early !!

 

[Tacori E-ring]

DD, Yay!!!

Sounds like you made great progress. You know I found with T she really DOES need alone time. I guess we don''t think of babies being that independent but some are. That''s why for us the 15 min. rule always worked well.

cdt, I appreciate that. Usually I don''t have time to keep up with both threads but since DD called out for help I gave her my experience. I don''t think I twisted anyone else''s words or even commented on their parenting. What works for me might not work for you. But I would hope we could all be civilized about it. You know in the early days with my daughter she wanted to nurse every hour! Basically she used me as a human pacifier which was not okay. She also didn''t sleep well and I found things are SO much easier if you STOP looking at the clock! Seriously if you are up at 3 am or 3 pm what does it really matter? You can get through it and it DOES get easier. I promise.

 

[mela lu]

DD - SO good to hear your update! That is progress indeed. Romeo too, needs to "work it out" as we call it before he can fall asleep. 5-7 mins is GREAT for "working it out". Sounds like you''ve made one step forward. YEY!

Let''s see these comparison pics! Genetics are so freaky.