Royal Jewels

[prince.of.preslav]

Hi all!

I'm thinking of starting a thred on tiaras - the past/present/future of tiars, the use, the design, discussion about noble families' collections, auctioned tiaras and such things. Do you think this is going to be intersting to the other Pricescopers? Should I start it here (Jewellery pieces) or in one of the other subforums?

Regards,
Bobby

 

[neil31uk]

Hi Bobby,

I would find that very interesting. Why not start it here.

Neil

 

[neil31uk]

You are all wishing you were in my science class today. We've been studying rocks and minerals. What better rock and mineral to study than DIAMONDS! We've done basic mineral properties like luster and hardness (all hail the Mohs scale). Today we are doing properites specific to diamonds, namely the 4C's. I tell the students that they may all have to deal with this some day....boys will have to buy the ring so they should know the basics and girls want a ring they will like so they should know the basics. And I plan on throwing in a picture of Catherine Middleton's engagement ring for good measure!

I had never thought of the 4Cs of diamonds as being a life-skill before, but I can see your point, the boys will want to know how to get value for money too (see, like to economics class too!).

A useful resource for you might be the Christie's jewellery auction catalogues (you can download for free) as these have a section on purchasing diamonds and the 4Cs.

Just found out my boy friend has ordered me a 2ct Kashmir Sapphire engagement ring (yes, a gay couple)! He was asking me so many questions about stones for so long, I should have guessed. He could have done with your science class Maria!

Neil

 

[JewelFreak]

Neil, congratulations! You must post pictures of the ring on Colored Stones when ready! I'm sure it will be smashing & I'm envious! I'm going out to take outside pics of my new blue spinel to put up; already posted some indoor ones but it's finally sunny so I can show the sparkles.

Patricia, you have a quicker eye than I do -- hadn't noticed the crown above the emerald in that brooch! Of course it goes north-south. I normally don't like those colors together -- in fact I HATE red & yellow combined, but something about the piece really attracts me. It would look better, I think, if it had 2 emeralds on either end.

Bobby, fascinating article about the girls who wear pearls. It's a lesson in why one should never envy anyone's life; wealth doesn't insulate from hard times, be they emotional or financial.

A tiara thread sounds neat, Bobby. If you did it here it would get lost in the shuffle, wouldn't it? Maybe a new thread under Jewelry Pieces, right next-door to Royal Jewels, would make it easier to read. It's a great idea.

--- laurie

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Oh Neil, thanks for the encouregment! I'll wait for a copule of more (or even more) poositive replies and maybe in the end of the week there'll be a new thread, specially dediaceted to the glittering headgear

Congratulations for your upcomming engagement!!! I suppose you're quite excited about the ring. Do you know if it's going to be a men's style ring or something a princess might wear? Hope you'll keep us informed and we'll see an pics in the appropriate thread in due time!

*Sorry for being soooo off-topic!

Bobby

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Lets get back on topic - Royal Jewels!
Take a look at Empress Farah's superb gold necklace, which she wore at the book launch of 'Art and Patronage: The Middle East' at Sotheby's on Noverber 22:
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/107078047/Getty-Images-Entertainment

What gran jewels does the Empress currently have? For galas I've only seen her wearing some nice pearls (necklace and earrings) and this gold set. Oh, there was also a ruby necklace. What about diamonds? Did HIM leave everything in Iran or did she have to sell?

Bobby

 

[neil31uk]

It's going to be a men's style, white gold or platinum band with a solitaire sapphire in a tension setting. I will indeed be posting a picture when I get it.

Ont he subject of tiaras, I have recently read that Edwina, Countess Mountbatten of Burma, owned a tuti-fruti bandeau that went with her other tuti-fruti pieces. It is now in the Victoria and Albert Museum in London. I have not heard of any other tuti-fruti head gear. Has anyone else? I will try and sort out a picture. There is a very good interactive page on it on the V&A website, showing how it broke down into 2 bracelets. http://www.vam.ac.uk/vastatic/microsites/hidden-treasures/flash/

 

[prince.of.preslav]

That's a nice link, Neil! Thanks. I've always loved tuti-fruti jewellery, which is understandable having in mind my affection for Art Deco, and find it a pitty that we don't have photos of Edwina wearing it as bandeau.

You can ask about other tuti-fruti headgear in the new topic - Tiaras. Yes, I couldn't wait till the weekend and started it just a few minutes ago!

Thanks about the additional info about your ering. This reminds me of Nicholas II's ring from Empress Alexandra. Looking forward to the photos.

Bobby

 

[prince.of.preslav]

A most happy birthday to HRH Princess Catharina-Amalia of the Netherlands, The Hereditary Princess of Orange, Princess of Orange-Nassau, who today turns 7!

*I know this isn't about jewellery at all but I couldn't resist posting this lovely photo of the future Queen.

 

[neil31uk]

Just thought I would pot some very royal jewels: Coronets to be exact.

This is the Crown of the Prince of Wales, the standard official representation then the current crown from 1969. It is decorated with amethysts, diamonds and pearls and I think some emeralds. Maybe we will see it at an investiture for Prince William in a few years?

 

[neil31uk]

The Coronet of a Prince/Princess that is the Child or spouse of the Monarch. The Princes Phillip, Princess Anne, Prince Andrew and Prince Edward are all entitled to this, as was The Princess Margaret.

Theses are made from silver gilt and not set with jewels.



Princess Margaret in 1953:



The King's two brothers - The Duke of Kent & The Duke of Gloucester and their wives are wearing those here, as are a young QE II and Princess Margaret in the form of plain circlets.



A princesses coronet - I believe HRH Princess Victoria, daughter of HM Edward VII.



The Prince Phillip in 1953:

 

[neil31uk]

The Coronet of the child of an heir to the throne. Prince William of Wales and Prince Harry of Wales are entitled to this style.

This is slightly different as there are two crosses, two strawberry leaves on the sides and for flur-de-lys. The picture was captioned as being a coronet of this style, but the Princess it belonged to was never the daughter of an heir to the throne, but it was pre-1917, so I wonder if there was a slightly different system then. More research required.

 

[neil31uk]

Finally, the lowest tier of coronet for a prince or princess: four strawberry leaves and four crosses. These are the grandchildren of a monarch and who are Princes or princess' in the male line. The current Duke of Gloucester and Duke of Kent hold this style as does Prince Michel of Kent and Princess Alexandra of Kent as they are grand children of King George V.

The Stylised coronet:



Princess Alexandra of Kent in 1953 holding the coronet:



A Princesses Coronet from the 1800s:

 

[JewelFreak]

Take a look at Empress Farah's superb gold necklace, which she wore at the book launch of 'Art and Patronage: The Middle East' at Sotheby's on Noverber 22:

What gran jewels does the Empress currently have? For galas I've only seen her wearing some nice pearls (necklace and earrings) and this gold set. Oh, there was also a ruby necklace. What about diamonds? Did HIM leave everything in Iran or did she have to sell?

Bobby, maybe she got some out, but I can't find any pictures of her wearing big jewels. Another of the same necklace at Versailles in 2003. A few with a string of pearls & some daytime earrings. Possibly she couldn't leave with much; they were lucky to get out with their lives. I don't have the impression she's been a great socializer, either, could be wrong on that.

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Look at what I found - a photo of how Princesses Elizabeth and Margaret's coronets for the Coronation of their parents were supposed to look. At the end, as we know, they wore simple gold coronets. This was (partly) Queen Mary's idea and design.

Does anybody know why Queen Maud didn't wear a coronet in 1937? After all she attended the coronation in har capacity of British Princess...

Bobby

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Finally, the lowest tier of coronet for a prince or princess: four strawberry leaves and four crosses.

So you fail into that category, right?

These are the grandchildren of a monarch and who are Princes or princess' in the male line. The current Duke of Gloucester and Duke of Kent hold this style as does Prince Michel of Kent and Princess Alexandra of Kent as they are grand children of King George V.

Not to forget Princesses Eugenie and Beatrice of York and Viscount Severn and Lady Louise.

Bobby

 

[JewelFreak]

Neil, interesting info on coronets. Thank you for the research that took. I hope they don't put one of those beanies on William when he's invested as PoW -- and I'll bet William hopes the same! His father was so embarrassed at the get-up he had to wear himself; wasn't that coronet sort of a last-minute for show only creation?

Somehow it seems that coronets for anyone but the monarch & consort are a thing of the past, except perhaps at a king's coronation. Can't imagine a photo like the one you posted of the RF at George VI's being taken now. The British public would rebel!

I like the small diamond crown made in 1870 by Garrard's for Queen Victoria, after the gov't insisted she appear more often in public. She vowed never to stop mourning Albert & wearing mourning dress with a white mourning mantilla -- this little crown worked with the lace head covering. I think it's cute. Victoria left it to the Crown in her will & Alexandra wore it a few times; QM too but haven't found any pics of her with it on. Now in the Tower display.

--- Laurie

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Bobby, maybe she got some out, but I can't find any pictures of her wearing big jewels. Another of the same necklace at Versailles in 2003. A few with a string of pearls & some daytime earrings. Possibly she couldn't leave with much; they were lucky to get out with their lives. I don't have the impression she's been a great socializer, either, could be wrong on that.

Thank you for the reply, Laurie!
But, I'll have to strongly disagree with you - The Empress is a great socializer and I'm sure has a lot of friends in the royal circels. She attended the Danish and Spanish Crown Princely weddings and Prince Hamzah bin Al Hussein, has attended more than one gala in Versailles where she met lots or royals, the funerals of Prince Rainier III, The Css of Paris and Queen Marie-Jose and also the Silver Wedding of Queen Juliana and her husband (sorry, can't write his name), not to forget the glittering Persepolis and just this year the wedding of Prince Nicholaos and Tatiana Blatnik in Greece. And this are just some of the many events where she's had the opportunity to meat and socialize with royalty. HIM is also a friend of Simeor II and has visited Bulgaria once or twice. I believe Empress Farah is also a friend of Constantine II and the Prince of Naples.
I'm not sure if she has attended and British royal event.

 

[NSEB1958]

Sorry to Hear about your problems with the insurance company Danny!

And Congratulations to Neil

 

[prince.of.preslav]

...

Somehow it seems that coronets for anyone but the monarch & consort are a thing of the past, except perhaps at a king's coronation. Can't imagine a photo like the one you posted of the RF at George VI's being taken now. The British public would rebel!
.......
--- Laurie

But coronets are used exclusively at Coronations. The photo of King George VI and his family was taken just after his Coronation... It's not like one of the official photos of the members of the RF we see relesed from time to time.
Shall there be a next Coronation, there will be a photo just like the one of George VI and family.

Here's a photo from the time of Elizabeth II's coronation where HM's posing with even more members of the extended family and some Greek & Battenberg in-laws:

 

[neil31uk]

Finally, the lowest tier of coronet for a prince or princess: four strawberry leaves and four crosses.

So you fail into that category, right?

These are the grandchildren of a monarch and who are Princes or princess' in the male line. The current Duke of Gloucester and Duke of Kent hold this style as does Prince Michel of Kent and Princess Alexandra of Kent as they are grand children of King George V.

Not to forget Princesses Eugenie and Beatrice of York and Viscount Severn and Lady Louise.

Bobby

Yes Bobby, I decided to make myself a low tier of prince, I really like the strawberry leaf/cross combination. Just wish it had more jewels in it!

Yes I forgot about the Queens' other grandchildren!

As for Maud, I always imagined that she was there as she was the new King's aunt, rather than specificly as a princess. Also, as a Queen Consort of Norway it some what over rode her being a princess, so she would dress as she would as queen. Her dress is not a UK court dress as the other princesses are wearing, denoting a difference. Traditionally at a UK corrination no other head of state attends, but that tradition seemed to go out the window in 1953. Maud could not wear her crown as a queen for that reason, and wearing a princesses coronet would have been inappropriate for a queen consort. Of course her maltease tiara was a perfect compromise in my opinion, not a crown, yet sparkling diamonds with the familiar crosses that so many others had.

 

[neil31uk]

Look at what I found - a photo of how Princesses Elizabeth and Margaret's coronets for the Coronation of their parents were supposed to look. At the end, as we know, they wore simple gold coronets. This was (partly) Queen Mary's idea and design.

Does anybody know why Queen Maud didn't wear a coronet in 1937? After all she attended the coronation in har capacity of British Princess...

Bobby

I read once that these ets were originally made with gems set in them and were very elaborate and king and queen thought them inappropriate, which is when queen Mary suggested what was finally used. I don't know if you know this, but the ermine trim and velvet cap come out as one piece on all coronets so I guess they just removed them from these, as they look like the circlets used. They did the same thing with Princess Alexandra of Kent in 1953, I think she was 16 then?

 

[Imdanny]

DANNY, WHERE ARE YOUR PICS????

--- Laurie

My ankle is hurting today and I had to fight with my insurance company for 1 1/2 hours about a separate medication. Then tomorrow I get my last pain medication refill. Insurance will pay for it tomorrow morning but not tonight. Insurance wanted me to go a week without the other medication (a week) because of some arbitrary they rule they have. I had to get a one week supply. It took that whole time with me and the pharmacist and the insurance company and the doctor being on the phone- for 1 1/2 hours to work out a solution. I was like "one week is a long time to go without the medication I need. The doctor restarted the prescription. You (insurance company) want me to go without it for a week? Seriously?). So I don't feel my best but please give me a few days to get my medications back on track. I appreciate Bobby's help and I haven't forgotten you all.

I feel your pain Danny. I will never forget the year-long insurance battle I had when my son was born. He was a month early and we had a two week stay in a Neo-natal intensive care unit...insurance didn't want to cover most of it and tried to stick us with a $14,000 bill. Please note the word tried...I fought it tooth and nail and got it down to about $1500 in the end.

Hang in there, be persistant. If your paitence can outlast theirs, then you will win!!

Thank you. I was very persistent. I wasn't going to leave the pharmacy with no medication for a week. That's not what my doctor wanted. That wouldn't have been good for me at all. It was just dumb. Thanks for your good wishes, all. Ok, I'm off to try to learn what Bobby and Laurie are trying to teach me.

BTW, I too am surprised the ruby ring sold for 3 million dollars. I'm sure it's rare and everything but I can't see liking a ring well enough to pay 3 million dollars for one, unless it was a huge diamond.

Also, I agree that the tiara would look great on Kate especially with Diana's ring but on the other hand I think she'll do alright in the jewel department.

 

[Niclaire]

Wow its just amazing ...Your collection is too good.....................

 

[Imdanny]

Ok, no luck. I'll ask this question here once and if I still can't get it, I'll ask a friend or ask for help from the moderators. I'm just looking for any suggestions:

what happens is I upload the picture I want.
but then when I try to download it, it must not be in the right file, because when I hit the button on the left under Insert, I get a block of old pictures, and it doesn't have the one I just downloaded.

TIA.

BTW, the crown (correct term?) in my avatar is that of an earl.

 

[neil31uk]

The Coronet of the child of an heir to the throne. Prince William of Wales and Prince Harry of Wales are entitled to this style.

This is slightly different as there are two crosses, two strawberry leaves on the sides and for flur-de-lys. The picture was captioned as being a coronet of this style, but the Princess it belonged to was never the daughter of an heir to the throne, but it was pre-1917, so I wonder if there was a slightly different system then. More research required.

After a bit of research I have found out that pre-1917 coronets of this style were issued on an ad hoc basis, and that this was given to the daughters of the monarch and sometimes grand-daughters. There was actually no set rules really, as even titles of prince/princess and styles of highness/royal highness were dished out in an ad hoc manner too!

 

[neil31uk]

Ok, no luck. I'll ask this question here once and if I still can't get it, I'll ask a friend or ask for help from the moderators. I'm just looking for any suggestions:

what happens is I upload the picture I want.
but then when I try to download it, it must not be in the right file, because when I hit the button on the left under Insert, I get a block of old pictures, and it doesn't have the one I just downloaded.

TIA.

BTW, the crown (correct term?) in my avatar is that of an earl.

Your avatar is indeed wearing the coronet (only crown in UK if the King/Queen or Prince of Wales) of an earl.

 

[neil31uk]

Neil, interesting info on coronets. Thank you for the research that took. I hope they don't put one of those beanies on William when he's invested as PoW -- and I'll bet William hopes the same! His father was so embarrassed at the get-up he had to wear himself; wasn't that coronet sort of a last-minute for show only creation?

Somehow it seems that coronets for anyone but the monarch & consort are a thing of the past, except perhaps at a king's coronation. Can't imagine a photo like the one you posted of the RF at George VI's being taken now. The British public would rebel!

--- Laurie

Hi Laurie,

The PoWs crown, far from being a last minute thing, was carefully planned and made in 24ct gold (welsh gold for the crosses and fler-de-lis) and reinforced with platinum. The globe at the tope is engraved with the PoWs coat of arms (and has at its centre a golf ball!) and it is set with diamonds and emeralds. It was a gift of the Worshipful Company of Goldsmiths to QE II. the base ring and globe were made by a then new process of sitting a frame in a bath of gold suspended in liquid that was then elctro-attached (? exact name) to the frame, forming a solid gold crown.

It's not the best by any means, but I think it has a certain charm, and it was a symbol of its age.

 

[JewelFreak]

You're right, of course, Neil. I have it confused w/something else -- I remember reading that something was a last-minute mock-up; could it have been the sword? (Probably wrong on that too, they had swords galore.) Something was faked, research required.

At any rate, the PoW crown made for Charles, designed by the Earl of Snowden (using a golf ball, as you say, to model the orb on top), looks to me like a prop for Star Trek. The very worst of 60s Modern, imho. I hadn't realized why a new one was necessary -- that the Duke of Windsor took the one he had used -- & other Princes of Wales since 1902 -- with him when he abdicated & left England. It is illegal to take any of the Crown Jewels out of the country for any reason, but apparently it was not judged a good idea to charge him w/theft, so they made a new one. After the Duke died in 1972 that PoW crown came back to England. (Side note -- one reason for the creation of the Imperial Crown of India for the Delhi Durbar was that the Imperial State Crown, which George V might have worn, could not be removed from England under the law.)

--- Laurie

 

[JewelFreak]

Bobby, your knowledge of Farah Diba is better than mine! I still doubt she was able to bring much jewelry out of Iran, though; at least, if so, can't find any photos of her wearing great jewels since that time. I read an article on a French website that she works hard to maintain a royal attitude: remains dignified, doesn't drink alcohol, and that when she attends galas or soirees, she does not like to be photographed laughing or candidly & informally enjoying herself.

At any rate, these are representative of the pics I found where she wears any jewelry. It's too bad; she's so pretty, some lovely jewels would be wonderful for her.

--- Laurie