Royal Jewels

[Feeshalori]

I realize that many Japanese women do have the traditional makeup of submission to their culture and society; it's very evident in the IF. IDK, I had thought that because such ladies had the push and drive to go forward with their advanced studies and degrees and brought such talent and skills to their roles, they would be able to create a more modern culture in the IF. Obviously that's not the case since there's thousands of years of tradition and ceremony embedded in that environment and the IHA has an iron rule. Because Kiko demonstrates the traditional mindset of a Japanese lady, it's easy for her to survive in the culture of the IF; for Masako, less so. It's more the pity that Masako knew what she was most likely getting into, but had to capitulate to the pressure to marry the heir. She probably knew she'd be a trapped bird in a gilded cage, no doubt.

And as much as we'd all have wanted to see the survival of the Wales' marriage, for Charles and Diana to have stayed together in such a combative and tumultuous marriage would have definitely harmed the monarchy for sure. Inevitably, they had to divorce because this was no genteel relationship where the proverbial blind eye is turned and scandals swept under the rug. It was out there for the world to see, and inevitably the monarchy would have become a laughingstock. The constant negative publicity in the tabloids were already becoming a source of embarrassment to the BRF, and that was the last thing the regal and traditional Queen wanted to see in her reign. I hated to see the outcome, especially the effect on the two boys, but in the long run it was the wise thing to do. I just find it a shame that had Charles married Camilla years ago when they were younger, two marriages wouldn't have been destroyed and Diana would have most likely married someone else and perhaps be alive and happy today. Who knows.....

Patricia

 

[Imdanny]

I agree with Imdanny. Prince Philip had numerous affairs but the Queen did not divorce him. Diana and Charles should have remained married.

Thank you, lulu.

 

[JewelFreak]

I wish they could have stayed married too, but that's from my own selfish point of view (except that Diana would be alive, also). I loved seeing her & the good things she did. One other difference today vs. the past is that royals now want to marry for love like everyone else. Marriages in the past were alliances, not love matches, and therefore adultery was accepted as long as it was discreet. With Victoria the RF began modeling itself as the example, ironically, of solid middle-class values & paramours went out of style. The way Diana & Charles eventually felt about each other, it would have been impossible for them to live monogamously together. I think the monarchy would not have survived, Feeshalori; it was already a laughingstock & the public's attitude was becoming really negative.

I hope Naruhito can change things once he becomes emperor. It's kind of a mystery to me how a bureaucracy can rule the IF to the degree of telling them when to have children & if they're allowed to speak at banquets. Creepy. I know bureaucrats get dug in & like chiggers, are hard to get out, but holy cow! P. Masako was getting bad press for a while, negative comments on blogs, etc. & apparently the IHA was doing that to stem some mild rebellion of hers -- so if anyone tries to get rid of them, they won't go quietly.

And there's the problem. Negative anything in public is totally taboo in Japan. Showing emotion -- good or bad -- is Not Done. The pressure to conform is irresistably powerful -- they have a saying that makes it clear: "The nail that sticks up will be hammered down." Ditching the IHA would inevitably be noisy, possibly lurid, and that's the main hold they must have on the IF. It's hard to imagine this house of cards surviving the winds of future generations but we'll have to wait & see -- the current emperor isn't going to change anything.

--- Laurie

 

[prince.of.preslav]

The discussion about the Japanese Crown Princess, her sister- and mother-in-law made me think that I've not seen any photos from their weddings, apart from a cople of photos from the CP couple's. Has anybody seen any? Can (s)he post some?
Since the wedding of the Crown Prince was white tie, I think we'll all enjoy them.

Bobby

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Today I came across this photo of Zara Phillips' engagement ring. I think it shows the ring better than the official photos. Now I like it even more. Somehow remindes me of Elizabeth II's ring.


Bobby

 

[JewelFreak]

Nice ring of Zara's, thanks for the photo.

Per your request, Bobby, here are some photos of Japanese royal weddings. The first is a montage of the weddings of Akihito & Michiko and Naruhito and Masako. The actual ceremony is Shinto in traditional clothing, then usually a change to a western wedding dress for a reception. Michiko wore 12 kimonos for the Shinto rite, weighing a total of 33 lbs, at a cost of $100,000. I read that Masako wore 17 kimonos, though not sure if that's accurate. Will look up just what goes on in a Shinto wedding -- I'm wondering if layers come off at various points or why so many are worn.

In Japan I have seen wedding kimonos and they qualify is jewelry all by themselves, even though they have no gems. The work is breathtakingly beautiful: embroidery, design, and fabric weaving. Many cost $100K each nowadays, or even more if real gold thread is used in the embroidery -- when Michiko was married in, I think, '59, it probably translated to a similar cost in inflation-adjusted yen.

 

[JewelFreak]

This next is really interesting. Screen captures from an old British newsreel about Akihito's wedding. As the couple rode in a carriage, a young man ran out to it & threw a rock at Akihito. He then climbed onto the carriage & tried to grab Michiko. Police took him off, presumably to jail -- he said he was an anti-monarchist. It was pretty dramatic. Not to mention, extremely un-Japanese!! Hope this is clear enough to see,

--- Laurie

 

[Feeshalori]

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/forum/download/file.php?id=115539']https://www.pricescope.com/forum/download/file.php?id=115539[/URL]

Great photos, Laurie. Those of the protester approaching the royal carriage are really incredible.

Here's a wedding photo of Prince Akishino and Princess Kiko in Western dress. Because of its informality and departure from the usual rigid postures, it's said the photographer was fired but nevertheless this was a highly popular photo in Japan.

Patricia

 

[T L]

Nice ring of Zara's, thanks for the photo.

Per your request, Bobby, here are some photos of Japanese royal weddings. The first is a montage of the weddings of Akihito & Michiko and Naruhito and Masako. The actual ceremony is Shinto in traditional clothing, then usually a change to a western wedding dress for a reception. Michiko wore 12 kimonos for the Shinto rite, weighing a total of 33 lbs, at a cost of $100,000. I read that Masako wore 17 kimonos, though not sure if that's accurate. Will look up just what goes on in a Shinto wedding -- I'm wondering if layers come off at various points or why so many are worn.

In Japan I have seen wedding kimonos and they qualify is jewelry all by themselves, even though they have no gems. The work is breathtakingly beautiful: embroidery, design, and fabric weaving. Many cost $100K each nowadays, or even more if real gold thread is used in the embroidery -- when Michiko was married in, I think, '59, it probably translated to a similar cost in inflation-adjusted yen.

You know, when you told me that kimonos didn't really lend themselves well to jewels, now I know why. They are beautiful, and in a way, jewels themselves. Love those Japanese RF photos. Thanks JewelFreak.

 

[T L]

Very true words, Danny! Diana's lineage had more blue blood in it than the BRF, it was said. And to have been stripped of her HRH after the divorce - as the mother of a future king - was disgraceful and unjust. Diana was on a different level than anyone else. Wallis Simpson was denied her HRH upon marriage to the Duke of Windsor and no matter how unpopular she was, she had legitimate right to the title because of her husband's royal status. I wouldn't blame William at all if he reinstated Diana's title after he comes to the throne. Although it does Diana little good now, poor lady, at least she'll go down in history as HRH.

I also hope Kate doesn't receive the equivalent of a royal "hazing" once she enters the Firm from the ladies of royal birth, but we will see. I'm sure it won't be the nightmare that the Japanese ladies suffer since William seems very protective of her. And if the Imperial Household Agency doesn't straighten its act out, little Prince Hisahito will have a real tough time bagging a wife in the future to propagate the line!!

I heard Kate came from a very working class background (her decendants, and no royal blood whatsoever), so unlike Diana's. However, times have changed, and I hope no one in the RF or their staff, is snotty towards Kate for being so "common." I know that the establishment treated Sarah Ferguson as a "commoner," but again, times have changed.

 

[JewelFreak]

You know, when you told me that kimonos didn't really lend themselves well to jewels, now I know why. They are beautiful, and in a way, jewels themselves.

They truly are, TL. Once on a 2-wk business trip to Japan I spent the weekend in Kyoto in the ancient part of town. Went into a kimono shop & came out dazzled. These were not tourist things; it catered to Japanese brides & I never saw textiles so magnificent. Silk finer than a spider web & depth & subtlety of color you can't imagine. I'll never forget one particular kimono -- felt the almost physical "need to acquire" that I do for beautiful gems. It was a tangerine color, rich & deep, with inch-wide piping on the sleeve edges and skirt hem all embroidered in silver & gold thread geometric pattern. Across the back, I gasped at the beauty, were big snowy white egrets (symbol of purity), their wings spread. These were embroidered in gleaming white silk, silver, black, gray & gold, threads & stitches so small you couldn't see individual ones. Other designs were woven into the fabric and embroidered onto it, the composition & placement artistically marvelous. I don't know how much that baby cost, more than a decade's income for me, no doubt, but I had to drag myself out before I whipped out the old Visa card & mortgaged my life! If the kimonos were so perfect, just imagine what the obis looked like. Jewelry is unnecessary; this garment made the bride a jewel.

Re Sarah Ferguson -- she may have been treated like a commoner, but she behaved commonly. To some extent she earned it. I don't mean getting her toes sucked more than general demeanor. I can imagine her being overly familiar w/servants, for instance, which would have put them off: there's snobbery among servants as well as nobility. I don't imagine Kate will have that problem and hope the royal establishment has learned from its mistakes. She has an innate dignity Sarah never did.

--- Laurie

 

[JewelFreak]

Aha!! They DID learn! Kate to Attend "Princess" classes: http://www.exposay.com/v/32114/kate-middleton-attend-princess-classes/

They could simply send me to RF jewel classes & I'd promise to be good!

--- Laurie

P.S. Do you suppose this necklace is real? Earrings presumably, yes. Interesting necklace, whatever.

 

[T L]

If the kimonos were so perfect, just imagine what the obis looked like. Jewelry is unnecessary; this garment made the bride a jewel.

--- Laurie

RE: Obi's also make gorgeous table runners. I have an antique one I use as a table runner.

 

[T L]

Aha!! They DID learn! Kate to Attend "Princess" classes: http://www.exposay.com/v/32114/kate-middleton-attend-princess-classes/

They could simply send me to RF jewel classes & I'd promise to be good!

--- Laurie

P.S. Do you suppose this necklace is real? Earrings presumably, yes. Interesting necklace, whatever.

Sarah Ferguson visited my jeweler. He has a photo of himself with her in his store. I think she was publicizing moissanite for a time too, which is a bad choice for a royal (it's a diamond simulant).

That necklace looks like champagne diamonds. Very pretty. I think she's gotten more classy over the years. I guess it's a bit too late now though.

 

[LadyMaria]

P.S. Do you suppose this necklace is real? Earrings presumably, yes. Interesting necklace, whatever.

So how would this necklace look if it were mounted as a tiara? It almost has the Russian fringe look to it.

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Time for a bit of glitter from Sweden - Queen Silvia at the State Banquet for the Estonian President Toomas Hendrik and his wife - The Queen is wearing the Connaught tiara, the larger of the three row pearl necklaces, pearl poire earrings and a pearl pendant brooch. Her Majesty is the only royal lady present as her daughters Victoria and Madeleine are in Abu Dhabi and NY respectively. Strange that even Prince Daniel isn't at the dinner. Perhaps he feels too unsure without Victoria or is also in Abu Dhabi?



BTW, I also miss The Queen's elaborate hairstyles for galas...

Bobby

 

[prince.of.preslav]

P.S. Do you suppose this necklace is real? Earrings presumably, yes. Interesting necklace, whatever.

Yes, I actually think this is a real necklace. Ithink Sarah York has worn quite a lot of borrowed jewels since the divorce. She certanly isn't wearing the stuff the got during her years as a royal Duchess.

So how would this necklace look if it were mounted as a tiara? It almost has the Russian fringe look to it.

As you already answered yourself, Maria, this would make a fringe tiara. Maybe a bit more modern that the ones we're used to, but still quite nice and impressive. Maybe even something like your own Tsarina of Teaching (albeit with higher stikes), don't you think?

Bobby

 

[prince.of.preslav]

As I already said, Crown Princess Victoria of Sweden is in Abu Dhabi. HRH wore her pearl and diamond cluster earrings:

HRH also attended a reception at Radison SAS (where else) for which she were one of her new favourite cosume pieces:

Bobby

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Per your request, Bobby, here are some photos of Japanese royal weddings. The first is a montage of the weddings of Akihito & Michiko and Naruhito and Masako.

Thank you very much, Laurie! The photos, esp. the collage, are great. I've never seen most of them. The info about the wedding ceremonies and the attack in 1959 were also new to me. As a male I'm not interested in the kimonos, but that was also interesting to read and I agree that some of them look very luxurious and I'm not surprised how much they cost given what you said about the materials used.

Patricia, thanks for the photo of the Prince & Princess Akishino's wedding. It's really unconventional and I can only imagine how the IHA must've reacted. The poor photographer!

Bobby

 

[JewelFreak]

Patricia, I love that photo of Akishino & bride so unposed & happy & cute. Can imagine the Japanese public did too, though the IHA probably had a collective heart attack. They have been "responsible" for the IF since the 8th century, how about that?

Interesting earrings Victoria is wearing at the Swedish reception in Abu Dhabi, Bobby. Also, in the other picture, her pearl & diamond earrings match the buttons on that elegant suit -- here's a pic that shows the buttons, if not the earrings, a tiny bit better.

--- Laurie

 

[JewelFreak]

Also just saw that Giorgio Armani says he will be designing Charlene Wittstock's wedding dress. I can't wait to see what jewels she will wear with it!

--- Laurie

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Yes, Laurie, I noticed the buttons on CPss Victoria's coat. I actually hesitated wheter to post the photo or not but finally chose the rear shot. Thanks for posting, BTW.

I am very happy to be proven wrong this time - Princess Christina, Mrs. Magnuson was also present at the State Banquet tonight. She wore her own pearl tiara and the necklace and earrings (pearls and pink stones) from (a.o. occasions) last year's dinner offered by The King for the Nobel laureates.
There's a very special reason for my happiness - obviously the Princess is feeling well enough to attend, despite having cancer and undergoing special treatment.

Bobby

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Also just saw that Giorgio Armani says he will be designing Charlene Wittstock's wedding dress. I can't wait to see what jewels she will wear with it!

--- Laurie

One of Princess Charlotte's tiaras, I hope.

 

[JewelFreak]

A photo of Queen Elizabeth looking uncharacteristically martial last month in Oman.

What brooch is she wearing? It looks a little like the Frosted Sunflower brooch but I'm not sure.

--- Laurie

 

[Feeshalori]

http://madhattery.royalroundup.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/2010-11-27-britain-elizabeth2.jpg

I haven't quite figured out how to actually copy the picture rather than the link, but here's a better picture of the Queen in her military finery with a clearer view of the brooch. She was attending a cavalry show in Oman, and dressed for the occasion. Is that the sunflower brooch of which you were speaking, Laurie?

Patricia

 

[bebe]

For what this is worth -

A diamond and pearl necklace that belonged to Princess Di was bought many years ago
by a Houston Texas business man. "Mattress Mac" (made his fortune in the furniture business)
He had the necklace on display at his store in Houston - under protected glass, for years.

His daughter was married last summer and she wore the necklace !! Awesome. I saw the pics
in a Texas wedding/bridal magazine. Wish I could post them.

 

[Imdanny]

Danny, in the old days when Prince Philip was doing his thing -- and forever before that -- utmost discretion was the key to making it work. Among the nobility, divorces usually resulted if anyone was caught openly in compromising circumstances. I shudder to think what would have happened if Philip's involvement in the Christine Keeler affair had been known by the British people at the time, for instance. It was no secret in diplomatic & social circles but was treated with good old-fashioned silence publicly.

Essential to this was the cooperation of the press, which printed not a whisper, nor of Philip's other peccadillos. There were no paparazzi thrusting telescope lenses over garden walls, no tabloids offering bundles of money to "friends" and servants for gossip, no reporters stalking every step they took. It's completely impossible to conduct an affair now with any kind of secrecy. Miserable together, both the Waleses would have continued affairs; they were human. If they had stayed married, the monarchy would have fallen. The tabs made the RF look like Peyton Place on steroids as it was. I'm sure that's why QE consented & encouraged them to get it over with. It's a completely different time now with the gentlemanly behavior all around that made discretion possible a long-gone memory.

--- Laurie

Laurie, I understand your point of view on this. Discretion isn't possible in the modern age and the monarchy would have fallen but for the divorce.

I guess we can agree to disagree. This type of disagreement is truly one of the reasons why I had wanted this thread to remain focused on royal jewels but most of us didn't feel this way and it's become a thread about royal personages as much as anything else.

Well, so be it, but the Charles, Diana, Camilla love triangle is something people are never going to agree on. This makes it difficult as a topic of discussion, unfortunately.

I don't think that divorce washed away the scandals, the scandal of Charles apparently having always had Camilla as a mistress, the scandal of Diana's affairs, the scandal of divorce itself, and the resultant facts and circumstances which lead to Diana not being protected properly. Frankly, the whole thing is a debacle that can't be fixed by the divorce having occurred IMO.

HRH Princess Michael and her husband (although minor royals, it's true) seem to have a wink and a nod type relationship and people seem to accept it. It's just my opinion but I continue to believe that if Charles and Diana had acted discreetly (and I can point to numerous incidences of them both not having done so; I don't think it was only the media that was a factor- they didn't have to use the media in way they did- and they didn't have to continue to do so) the public would have respected the institution of marriage.

I think forcing the divorce on Diana was a mistake for the royal family's image, but that's just my opinion.

With respect and appreciation,
Danny

 

[prince.of.preslav]

A photo of Queen Elizabeth looking uncharacteristically martial last month in Oman.

What brooch is she wearing? It looks a little like the Frosted Sunflower brooch but I'm not sure.

--- Laurie

Hi Laurie!

At the cavalry show in Oman last year, Elizabth II wore the so called Gold Dahlia brooch. The brooch is one of HM's favourites and is regularly seen.
What's that Frosted Sunflower brooch you're talking about? Anothe name for the same jewel maybe?
BTW, that kind of attire is not uncommon among the Windsors for military events. See, for example, Diana and Camilla.

Bobby

 

[JewelFreak]

Patricia -- I presume you mean the necklace below of Diana's. I tried to find a pic of the bride but no luck. Also, her father put it up for auction on 9/24/2010, estimate $1.5 million to 2.5 million. Much searching hasn't turned up a price realized -- wonder if he withdrew it or it didnt' make the reserve?

Bobby -- YES!! That's the brooch! Hadn't found that. Thank you!

Danny, I agree with almost everything you wrote. Even if I didn't, your opinions are fine by me, we all have different outlooks. Diana got a really raw deal & was too inexperienced & young to see it coming until she was trapped. Judging from the pics of their last Thailand trip, they could barely stand to be in the same room. Had they stayed nominally married but led separate lives -- and every single thing they did would've been on the front pages in today's Fleet St. climate -- it would hardly have served as a good example to the British public. Modern people, when contemplating ending their own unhappy marriages, don't look to the RF for what to do, anyway. I don't frankly care if Charles is happy but do feel that Diana had the right to try to make a satisfying life for herself & admire her guts in staying public & refusing to go into the background afterward. But as I say, we all see things in our own ways & that's good.

I'm ready to get back to jewels too!

--- Laurie

 

[JewelFreak]

Bobby, in re-reading your post on the brooch, I don't think they're the same but am not sure. Looks like the Frosted Sunflower brooch is kind of covered in diamonds, but they are very similar in shape. What do you think?

I do remember Diana's white & gold military suit -- not imo one of her more successful outfits, but I don't recall seeing the Queen wear something of that style before. If she has, anyone know of pics?

--- Laurie