Royal Jewels

[prince.of.preslav]

I really apologise for the mistake then. And thank you, Fly Girl, for the correction and for providing the link to the article.
Obviously I should've put to my knowledge in my original post.

Bobby

 

[Fly Girl]

No apologies necessary. I thought it was funny you mentioned "planting a tree", and there she is, shovel in hand.

 

[Principessa]

Neil[/quote]
Hi Neil!
As you see I gave it a second thought LOL I did realize that but was too slow to post it.
You are absolutely right. Still I like the simplicity..almost medieval feel to it..speaking of which! here is one of my all time favorites..
a Bohemian Princess crown[/quote]

The Bohemian crown is stunning isn't it, even 800 years after it was made. It was made in England and was part of the Royal Tressury and used as part of a dowary for an English Princess (Blanche) who married a Palatine Elector Ludwig III in 1402.

Its the only English made crown pre-1661 that still exists.[/quote]

Oh that is very interesting Neil! I didn't know that.
Here are two photos(evidently it's impossible to make a good photo under such strict security rules) of
the Czech (Bohemian) Crown. The crown is called "St.Wenceslas' " because it copied in its shape the St.Wenceslas Patron Saint of Bohemia's original crown.
Made in 1347 for the Prague coronation of Charles (Karel) IV of Luxembourg,Holy Emperor and King of Bohemia (his mother was Eliska Premyslovna, Queen of Bohemia, who married 17 year old Prince Jean de Luxembourg).The crown weighs 2,5 kg and is made of pure (21-22)carat gold.The cross on the top holds a carved sapphire.In total, there is 19 sapphires,44 spinels, 1 ruby,30 emeralds and 20 pearls.
Here are the front and the side views. It has a feel of monumentality when the stones are not faceted IMHO.

 

[Principessa]

Hi Principessa,

These are not the same tiaras. The one int he top picture was a gift from Brazil in the 1950s and was later modified with somes taken from another gift of Brazil, a necklace, aslo in the 1950. I think the tiara may even have come from teh Govenor of Sau Paulo. the pict8.

The 1957 tiara is the one on the left in your photo. It was not a present from Brazil, though; as far as I remeber, HM liked the aquamarine necklace and earrings so much that she decided to have a tiara made to go with them. Later Brazil gave her a brooch and a bracelet to go with them. The central stone in the first tiara and the necklace's pendant swithed places in the final setting. The Queen might be wearing the 1968 gift from the Governor of São Paulo in the photo below.

Bobby

Thank you Bobby! I do think that sometimes less is more. In the photo of the Queen and Princess Ann I love the lightness of the floral piece. It remotely reminds me of the versatile pins?head pieces of Queen Margarethe of Denmark.
It seems to me that as an artist in her own right, HM has more courage or curiosity to wear pieces in the way the ladies did in the past centuries, while Queen Elizabeth II prefers the shape of a crown.
..and thanks for posting the babies!!! they are very sweet.

 

[Principessa]

Hi love how versitile the Dehli Durbar tiara is. I have to say my favorate is the emeralds the large diamond, I hope it get used again as such in the future/

Hi Neil!
that would be my choice too. I wonder if that diamond is one of the Cullinans? The size sure looks like that.
Hope this will be one of Duchess of Cornwall's choices in the future.

 

[JewelFreak]

Thanks for the pic of Diana-with-a-shovel, Flygirl. Answers my question. I did remember that after seeing your photo.

Principessa, one of the Cullinan diamonds was worn in the Delhi Durbar tiara; in the pic below it looks like possibly two -- could they be III and IV from the brooch? In the pic below, QM is also wearing Cullinanas V and VIII on her bodice.

--- Laurie

 

[RobertaB]

Great close up of her fascinator. I believe she was wearing enormous diamond studs to St. Andrews. I wish there were some close ups of them. Swoon.

 

[JewelFreak]

Welcome, Roberta! Here's the closest I could find. Wonder if they're a gift from William. Or, if she's anything like Diana, they might even be CZs.

--- Laurie

 

[laurensmama]

So is the delicate floral aquamarine tiara worn by QEII the same one worn by Princess Anne (that the Princess Royal received from the Queen Mum? I was not aware that QEII owned two acquamarine tiaras (I have only seen the the one that was eventually altered with the stones from Brazil). My daughter saw the smilies and wanted the "red one" lol

 

[Principessa]

Thanks for the pic of Diana-with-a-shovel, Flygirl. Answers my question. I did remember that after seeing your photo.

Principessa, one of the Cullinan diamonds was worn in the Delhi Durbar tiara; in the pic below it looks like possibly two -- could they be III and IV from the brooch? In the pic below, QM is also wearing Cullinanas V and VIII on her bodice.

--- Laurie

I found these photos of the largest Cullinans and so we can get the idea better. No. II has two platinum loops and so can be suspended as well as be worn as a brooch. I must admit that the size enchants me always! LOL

 

[Principessa]

to have an idea of the size here is an additional photo and the rough stones

 

[Principessa]

Oh, Laurie, I am forgetful! we need the photo here again to compare; Here it is!
Liza

 

[laurensmama]

In Lady Katie Percy's wedding photos, it looks like her tiara is crooked? I hope that is just poor photograpy. Does any one know anything about this tiara or anything else in the Duke's (her father) collection?

 

[JewelFreak]

Liza, great photo! Have seen that before somewhere -- of the jeweler holding the Cullinan piece -- but it's simply stunning! Can you imagine the thrill?

It is both "chips" in the Delhi Durbar. This is from Munn:

 

[Principessa]

Liza, great photo! Have seen that before somewhere -- of the jeweler holding the Cullinan piece -- but it's simply stunning! Can you imagine the thrill?

It is both "chips" in the Delhi Durbar. This is from Munn:

This is great!!!! thank you!!!! mistery solved! you are wonderful!
and here is an additional No V. so that we have them together. I read, that this one was given by the Gov of S. Africa to Q. Maru in 1910 and made into this detachable brooch in 1911...the stone was intended as an alternative centre stone for the emerald Delhi Durbar stomacher. Q.Mary also used it in her coronet in 1937 coronation, when she gave the Star of Africa(II?) to Queen Elizabeth for her coronation crown.

 

[JewelFreak]

I have always loved that brooch. The surrounding diamond design is so graceful.

Laurensmama, I can't find much on Northumberland jewels. Anybody else know? I located only one tiara & it is not the one in this wedding. (Picture below.) There must be some nice jewelry in the family -- the Percys are among the oldest nobility in England, dating to the Norman Conquest with W. the Conqueror's creation of Baron Percy in 1066. They do not appear to be on their uppers, either. In the past 2 years the Duke bought at auction 2 Meissen plates, of the few missing from a Percy family service dating to 1748 (pic below). For one plate he paid 27,000BP and for the other 36,000BP.

My favorite thing I uncovered in the search was the (almost) theft of the Crown Jewels, carried out by an Irishman named Blood, who was the Duke of Northumberland's librarian at one point in his colorful life. Having backed both sides in the English Civil War, Blood found himself persona non grata with Charles II; he lived abroad for a while, then returned to England using an assumed name. Short of cash, he decided to go for the gold...er...and diamonds, etc., and steal the Crown Jewels. Befriending Edwards, the Keeper thereof, who lived above their storeroom at the Tower, Blood and cohorts persuaded him one night to give them a private peek. Once Edwards had unlocked the storeroom door, Blood coshed him on the head. The rest of the story as related in a blog I stumbled upon:

The grille was forced open and the Crown, Orb and Sceptre were removed. Blood flattened the Crown with the mallet and stuck it into a bag. He stuffed the Orb down his trousers. As the Sceptre was too long to go into the bag, one of the accomplices, Blood’s brother-in-law Hunt, tried to saw it in half.

At this point, Edwards came to and began to shout "Murder, Treason". The thieves tried to make good their escape but Blood was arrested trying to leave the Tower after trying to shoot one of the guards. When being questioned in custody, Blood became adamant that he would not answer his questioners, but repeated several times "I’ll answer to none but the King himself". He was relying on his charm and ‘gift of the gab’ to influence the King whom he knew to have a likeness for rogues and scoundrels.

He was not wrong, for when he was taken to the Palace and questioned by King Charles, Prince Rupert, The Duke of York and other members of the Royal Family, Blood laid the ‘Blarney’ on in large doses. The King was so amused by Blood’s audacity especially when he claimed that the Crown Jewels were only worth £6,000 and not the £100,000 that was claimed. When the King asked Blood "What if I should give you your life"? he replied "I would endeavour to deserve it, Sire".

Charles loved the cheek of Blood and thought that his defence was hilarious so, as you may have guessed, Charles not only pardoned Blood, but to the utter disgust of many, including Lord Osmonde, he was given Irish lands worth £500 per year and pardoned of all his wrongs. Blood soon became a well-known figure around London and was a regular caller at the Court of the King.

--- Laurie

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Oh that is very interesting Neil! I didn't know that.
Here are two photos(evidently it's impossible to make a good photo under such strict security rules) of
the Czech (Bohemian) Crown. The crown is called "St.Wenceslas' " because it copied in its shape the St.Wenceslas Patron Saint of Bohemia's original crown.
Made in 1347 for the Prague coronation of Charles (Karel) IV of Luxembourg,Holy Emperor and King of Bohemia (his mother was Eliska Premyslovna, Queen of Bohemia, who married 17 year old Prince Jean de Luxembourg).The crown weighs 2,5 kg and is made of pure (21-22)carat gold.The cross on the top holds a carved sapphire.In total, there is 19 sapphires,44 spinels, 1 ruby,30 emeralds and 20 pearls.
Here are the front and the side views. It has a feel of monumentality when the stones are not faceted IMHO.

Thank you for the interesting information about the Czech crown, Principessa! Never knew it was so old and tat the Bohemian King was also HRE. Do you know if the crown and other Bohemian rogalia was used at the Coronation of Franz Josef and Empress Elizabeth?

The Wales couple was shown the Czech crown jewels last year during their tour of the country:
Bobby

 

[neil31uk]

Oh that is very interesting Neil! I didn't know that.
Here are two photos(evidently it's impossible to make a good photo under such strict security rules) of
the Czech (Bohemian) Crown. The crown is called "St.Wenceslas' " because it copied in its shape the St.Wenceslas Patron Saint of Bohemia's original crown.
Made in 1347 for the Prague coronation of Charles (Karel) IV of Luxembourg,Holy Emperor and King of Bohemia (his mother was Eliska Premyslovna, Queen of Bohemia, who married 17 year old Prince Jean de Luxembourg).The crown weighs 2,5 kg and is made of pure (21-22)carat gold.The cross on the top holds a carved sapphire.In total, there is 19 sapphires,44 spinels, 1 ruby,30 emeralds and 20 pearls.
Here are the front and the side views. It has a feel of monumentality when the stones are not faceted IMHO.

Thank you for the interesting information about the Czech crown, Principessa! Never knew it was so old and tat the Bohemian King was also HRE. Do you know if the crown and other Bohemian rogalia was used at the Coronation of Franz Josef and Empress Elizabeth?

The Wales couple was shown the Czech crown jewels last year during their tour of the country:
Bobby

The Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall were quite lucky to see the crown jewels, normally they are not on display, only a set of reproductions made in the 1970s are normally seen at Prague Castle and the real items are only displayed once every 6-7 years for a few days. Sadly that didn't include my trip to Prague last August (but they had a Cartier exhibition on).

Just to clarify something I wrote earlier, the medivel English crown now in Germany and I refered to as the Boheimian crown is more normally call the Palatine Crown, but the website also calls it the Boheamian crown. VERY confussing!!

 

[neil31uk]

The Czech crown jewels were used last for the coronation of Czech king Ferdinand V in 1836.

 

[prince.of.preslav]

This is great!!!! thank you!!!! mistery solved! you are wonderful!
and here is an additional No V. so that we have them together. I read, that this one was given by the Gov of S. Africa to Q. Maru in 1910 and made into this detachable brooch in 1911...the stone was intended as an alternative centre stone for the emerald Delhi Durbar stomacher. Q.Mary also used it in her coronet in 1937 coronation, when she gave the Star of Africa(II?) to Queen Elizabeth for her coronation crown.

Of the numbered stones, only # 1, 2 and 6 were not a present to Queen Mary from the Government of South Africa. 1 and 2 are part of the Crown Jewels and thus are State property; #6 was bought by Edward VII for Queen Alexandra. The other 6 numbered stones and a number of other, much smaller ones were a present to Queen Mary.

Re. Queen Mary's regal circlet - we know that HM wore the brooch with Cullinan V instead of the Koh-i-Noor at the Coronation in 1937, but which diamond she wore at the base instead of Cullinan IV? The brooch with Cullinan VIII perhaps?
Queen Mary wore both Cullinan III & IV as a brooch. The second largest stone - the lesser Star of Africa - was worn by George VI in the Imperial State Crown.

Bobby

 

[prince.of.preslav]

The Czech crown jewels were used last for the coronation of Czech king Ferdinand V in 1836.

Thank you, Neil! You're always so kind to answer my questions

Regrds,
Bobby

 

[neil31uk]

This is great!!!! thank you!!!! mistery solved! you are wonderful!
and here is an additional No V. so that we have them together. I read, that this one was given by the Gov of S. Africa to Q. Maru in 1910 and made into this detachable brooch in 1911...the stone was intended as an alternative centre stone for the emerald Delhi Durbar stomacher. Q.Mary also used it in her coronet in 1937 coronation, when she gave the Star of Africa(II?) to Queen Elizabeth for her coronation crown.

Of the numbered stones, only # 1, 2 and 6 were not a present to Queen Mary from the Government of South Africa. 1 and 2 are part of the Crown Jewels and thus are State property; #6 was bought by Edward VII for Queen Alexandra. The other 6 numbered stones and a number of other, much smaller ones were a present to Queen Mary.

Re. Queen Mary's regal circlet - we know that HM wore the brooch with Cullinan V instead of the Koh-i-Noor at the Coronation in 1937, but which diamond she wore at the base instead of Cullinan IV? The brooch with Cullinan VIII perhaps?
Queen Mary wore both Cullinan III & IV as a brooch. The second largest stone - the lesser Star of Africa - was worn by George VI in the Imperial State Crown.

Bobby

I wonder if she wore the circlet (which of course was that of her crown, not the regal circlet that is seen in other picture) with the crystal models of the C III and C IV, as these were made for display purposes as she liked to wear the real tingsas the broaches as you have said. or she could have had other diamonds set that were smaller and the settings adapted especially to take a smalled stone but suggest the size of the original.

Just a theory.

 

[JewelFreak]

The Crown of the Austrian Empire (earlier called the Crown of Rudolf II), made in 1602, was probably used for Franz Josef's coronation. Hard to find good pictures of the coronation itself, maybe my luck is bad. Photo of Austrian regalia below -- in the etching it appears to be what F-J is wearing. Sorry it's not bigger or better quality.

Another crown was used in HRE coronations. This is magnificent! First used for Konrad II in 1047, last for Franz II in 1792. The regalia went to Vienna from Nuremburg in 1796 to escape Napoleon's advance & have remained there, except for a few years after the Anschluss in 1936 when Hitler stole them; they were recovered in 1945 by U.S. soldiers & returned.

--- Laurie

 

[neil31uk]

The Crown of the Austrian Empire (earlier called the Crown of Rudolf II), made in 1602, was probably used for Franz Josef's coronation. Hard to find good pictures of the coronation itself, maybe my luck is bad. Photo of Austrian regalia below -- in the etching it appears to be what F-J is wearing. Sorry it's not bigger or better quality.

Another crown was used in HRE coronations. This is magnificent! First used for Konrad II in 1047, last for Franz II in 1792. The regalia went to Vienna from Nuremburg in 1796 to escape Napoleon's advance & have remained there, except for a few years after the Anschluss in 1936 when Hitler stole them; they were recovered in 1945 by U.S. soldiers & returned.

--- Laurie

I read that the Austrian regalia was created when it was obvious that the HRE was coming to an end and that Austria would be the focal point of the seat of power for the dynasty that had been the Holy Roman Emporor's. So a new set of regalia was seen as most appropriate. Also, the Austrian Emporors were crowned in Hungery with the Hungarian Regalia in addition to in Austria.

 

[prince.of.preslav]

I wonder if she wore the circlet (which of course was that of her crown, not the regal circlet that is seen in other picture) with the crystal models of the C III and C IV, as these were made for display purposes as she liked to wear the real tingsas the broaches as you have said. or she could have had other diamonds set that were smaller and the settings adapted especially to take a smalled stone but suggest the size of the original.

Just a theory.

That's also a possibility, though I don't think Queen Mary (of all peaple) ever wore an imitation jewel, let alone for such an important occasion. I still think either Cullinan VI or VIII in the band of QM's circlet.
BTW, it was not necessary to wear a crystal/glass replica of Cullinan III as the portion of the Crown where the pear-shaped stone was set (in the cross above the monde) was not in use at the coronation.

 

[neil31uk]

I wonder if she wore the circlet (which of course was that of her crown, not the regal circlet that is seen in other picture) with the crystal models of the C III and C IV, as these were made for display purposes as she liked to wear the real tingsas the broaches as you have said. or she could have had other diamonds set that were smaller and the settings adapted especially to take a smalled stone but suggest the size of the original.

Just a theory.

That's also a possibility, though I don't think Queen Mary (of all peaple) ever wore an imitation jewel, let alone for such an important occasion. I still think either Cullinan VI or VIII in the band of QM's circlet.
BTW, it was not necessary to wear a crystal/glass replica of Cullinan III as the portion of the Crown where the per-shaped stone was set (in the cross above the monde) was not in use at the coronation.

Ah, so that is the diamond in the cross, I did wonder.

I found this on a website about famous diamonds:
"The Cullinan V is a triangular-pear cut weighing 18.80 carats, was originally mounted in a brooch for Queen Mary, to be worn alternately in the circlet of her crown as a replacement for the Koh-i-Noor. This was after the Koh-i-Noor was removed to the new crown that was made for Elizabeth (now the Queen Mother) in 1937."

I think that lends weight to the idea of one of the other stones, like the VI being set in the band.

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Queen Mary's Crown featured three very large named diamonds - the Koh-i-Noor and the Chips. In the photograph below, there are chrystal replicas of these three diamonds. From top to bottom they represent: Cullinan III (in the cross above the monde), the Koh-i-Noor (the central cross on the band) and Cullinan IV set in the band.

At the 1937 Coronation Queen Mary is obviously wearing a much smaller stone in place of # III, which she wore as a brooch. Judging by the photos I've seen, I'd say it looks most like the emerald-cut # VIII without its brooch setting.
As to Cullinan V - It was indeed used in place of the Koh-i-Noor.

Bobby

 

[JewelFreak]

I read that the Austrian regalia was created when it was obvious that the HRE was coming to an end and that Austria would be the focal point of the seat of power for the dynasty that had been the Holy Roman Emporor's. So a new set of regalia was seen as most appropriate. Also, the Austrian Emporors were crowned in Hungery with the Hungarian Regalia in addition to in Austria.

Thanks for the extra info, Neil. I did have a photo of the Hungarian regalia too but somehow zapped it before I could put it up. The old HRE crown is just amazing to me, so beautiful, and it's amazing that it has survived since 1047 without having been dismantled.

--- Laurie

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Queen Mary's Crown featured three very large named diamonds - the Koh-i-Noor and the Chips. In the photograph below, there are chrystal replicas of these three diamonds. From top to bottom they represent: Cullinan III (in the cross above the monde), the Koh-i-Noor (the central cross on the band) and Cullinan IV set in the band.

At the 1937 Coronation Queen Mary is obviously wearing a much smaller stone in place of # III, which she wore as a brooch. Judging by the photos I've seen, I'd say it looks most like the emerald-cut # VIII without its brooch setting.
As to Cullinan V - It was indeed used in place of the Koh-i-Noor.

Bobby

I horgot to attach the photo yesterday
Queen Mary's crown (photo from The English Regalia by Marting Holmes, 1972):

Bobby

 

[prince.of.preslav]

I read that the Austrian regalia was created when it was obvious that the HRE was coming to an end and that Austria would be the focal point of the seat of power for the dynasty that had been the Holy Roman Emporor's. So a new set of regalia was seen as most appropriate. Also, the Austrian Emporors were crowned in Hungery with the Hungarian Regalia in addition to in Austria.

Thanks for the info, Neil. I never knew that.
Here are two photos of Emperor Karl I wearing the Hungarian Crown at his Coronation in late 1916:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Karlfamily.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Karloath.jpg

Bobby