Royal Jewels

[LadyMaria]

In Lady Katie Percy's wedding photos, it looks like her tiara is crooked? I hope that is just poor photograpy. Does any one know anything about this tiara or anything else in the Duke's (her father) collection?

Check out the tiara thread...Bobby and I were talking about this! He had a great picture that will answer your question of the crooked tiara.

 

[LadyMaria]

I got the Suzy Menkes book on Royal Jewels about a month ago. I've looked at (drooled over) the pictures, but just finally found some time to actually read the book. Here's the most interesting tidbit I've found...opinions wanted on this, especially considering there was just a debate on Queen Mary wearing false jewels on the last page.

The crown made for Queen Alexandra is now set with paste. How does the crown still look so pristine if jewels like the Koh-i-noor were taken out of it? Was it possible Queen Alexandra was crowned with a light weight, fake crown?

 

[prince.of.preslav]

HM KGV and HM QM at the Dehli Durbar. I think Mary may have added a velvet cap to the diadem, but no ermin trim. Very clever of her having a diadem made rather than another crown, because as it wasn't part of the crown jewels (so it could leave the UK) it meant she could have it altered as she wished and worn so many way. I think in the form that the Duchess of Cornwall wears it in it flares out more near the top than when it was first made.

I think you're actually right, Neil! Here's a photo of George V and Queen Mary at the Durbar. Their Majesties are against white background and it does look like there's something in the diademe. Quite clever from Queen Mary's to do so (and maybe little people doubt how much she adored her jewels and played with them!). Perhaps Queen Mary was inspired by George IV who wore the State Diaideme (as we know it today) around a velvet cap.

Bobby

 

[prince.of.preslav]

I got the Suzy Menkes book on Royal Jewels about a month ago. I've looked at (drooled over) the pictures, but just finally found some time to actually read the book. Here's the most interesting tidbit I've found...opinions wanted on this, especially considering there was just a debate on Queen Mary wearing false jewels on the last page.

The crown made for Queen Alexandra is now set with paste. How does the crown still look so pristine if jewels like the Koh-i-noor were taken out of it? Was it possible Queen Alexandra was crowned with a light weight, fake crown?

No, it is not possible and in a way you answer your question yourself - Queen Alexandra's Crown is set with paste stones now. When QA wore it in 1902 it was all diamonds, but (at least) the largest diamonds were taken out of it and were replaced by paste stones. I beleieve some of the diamonds in the Crown were on loan from Gerrards and other from HM's private collcetion. Those from Alexandra's collection were returned to the jewels they came from. The Koh-i-Noor, for example, was returned to its brooch setting and, of course as a lady that loved jewels, Queen Alexandra (and later Mary) proudly wore the brooch.
The reason for all this is rather simple IMO - as the arches of her crown were not detachable, QA couldn't wear the base of it as a circlet. When she had to wear one, she wore Queen Victoria's Regal Circlet or the State Diademe (as at Daisy's wedding).

BTW, it's great to hear that you have the book! Someday I'll have it as well.

Queen Alexandra's Crown - here the fake Koh-i-Noor is quite obvious:

Bobby

 

[neil31uk]

Hi bobby,

it's good to see an example of a diadem it the true sense of the word, as there are only two other known examples in the UK: Mary of Modenedina's and that of George IV that you mentioned. In many ways it was better than having a new crown that she would not wear again, as she already had a crown with an option to remove the arches. A diadem that could could be converted to a tiara after was a fine example of the design of jewels that had multiple uses.

Which leads on to the question regarding the crown of HM QA. the koo I nor like several other gems, such as the Star's of Africa and the Stewart Sapphire are set into setting of their own which is then secured into the crown or used to attach it into other jewels? This allows transfer without damage to the gem and the piece of jewellery. This helped keep them in good condition. And of course part of the role of the crown jewellery is to maintain the jewels each year.

it was also very common to hire gems from a jewellery for use in a crown! The gems currently in the St Edward's crown were set in it in 1911 and kept, but before they were hired for a coronation and then taken out after the event and replaced with paste.

 

[T L]

here some pics from the Royal Dresss Collection

in the background of the Coronation Robe, you can see some of QM day dresses

Queen Victoria's dress reminds me a great deal of Diana's.

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Hi bobby,

it's good to see an example of a diadem it the true sense of the word, as there are only two other known examples in the UK: Mary of Modenedina's and that of George IV that you mentioned. In many ways it was better than having a new crown that she would not wear again, as she already had a crown with an option to remove the arches. A diadem that could could be converted to a tiara after was a fine example of the design of jewels that had multiple uses.

Didn't Mary of Modena have a set of a crown and a tiara? Do you know for what ioccasions was the diademe worn?

Which leads on to the question regarding the crown of HM QA. the koo I nor like several other gems, such as the Star's of Africa and the Stewart Sapphire are set into setting of their own which is then secured into the crown or used to attach it into other jewels? This allows transfer without damage to the gem and the piece of jewellery. This helped keep them in good condition. And of course part of the role of the crown jewellery is to maintain the jewels each year.

Yes, you're right that the Star of Africa, the Koh-i-Noor, the Stewart Sapphire (and possibly the Black Prince's Ruby) are in settings of their own.
Here we can see the two largest Cullinans out of the jewels they're set in. The prongs and hooks of their own settings are clearly visible.
The Koh-i-Noor on its own. The claws are also visible:
And finaly here's a photo of the original Imperial State Crown made for Queen Victoria - as you can see ther aren't any prongs for the Stewart Sapphire, but rather a place in which the sapphire in its own setting should be placed:

Bobby

 

[neil31uk]

Hi Bobby,

Mary of Modena had a diadem (that is still part of the crown jewels) that she wore to Westminster Abbey for her coronation, a coronation crown of her own that one report says no longer exists and another says is in the Museum of London. Then there is a State Crown that she wore for leaving the Abbey and for other state occations, though the diadem was also used. Queen's Regent and Consort including Mary II, Anne, and the wofe of George II all wore the diadem and the state crown at various points. The state crown, like the diadem, is in the crown jewels today. I have seen them, they are gold, and were set with gems for a coronation and fake pearls and crystals for display after. Some years ago the fake pearls were replaced with cultured pearls, but the crystals remain.

 

[neil31uk]

The best picture I could find of the diadem and the state crown of Mary of Modena http://www.flickr.com/photos/29633143@N05/2901106113/

 

[alexander1917]

the royal dress collection (Kensington Palace) show some different outfits of the RF (f.e. wedding dresses, QM coronation robe, QM evening dresses from the 1930's) all are displayed with paste jewels of the original pieces which were worn with the dresses.
which I remember were crowns, Empress MF saphire brooch, Lover's knot tiara etc...

Thanks you, Alexander. This are interesting info and photos. I'd love to see the copies of the jewels and to understand which firm makes them.
Does anybody happen to know if Princess Margaret's wedding dress was on loan from her children?

I'm not really sure who made the copies. the Lovers knot could be from Butler&Wilson (I got the same), the other items resemble much of works from here :http://www.stagejewellery.com/royal/

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Hi Bobby,

Mary of Modena had a diadem (that is still part of the crown jewels) that she wore to Westminster Abbey for her coronation, a coronation crown of her own that one report says no longer exists and another says is in the Museum of London. Then there is a State Crown that she wore for leaving the Abbey and for other state occations, though the diadem was also used. Queen's Regent and Consort including Mary II, Anne, and the wofe of George II all wore the diadem and the state crown at various points. The state crown, like the diadem, is in the crown jewels today. I have seen them, they are gold, and were set with gems for a coronation and fake pearls and crystals for display after. Some years ago the fake pearls were replaced with cultured pearls, but the crystals remain.

I dodn't know why but for some odd reason I wrote tiara instead of diademe, when I'm sure I meant a diademe. I guess it's the headache to blame...
Anyway, thanks for the additional info and the link (there are some great photos there of the Pahlavis & the Windsors).
Here are my two cents - Queen Mary (of Modena)'s diademe (this time I really mean diademe) was last used by Queen Adelaide in 1831 and the crown by Queen Charlotte in 1761. The diademe was usually worn by a Queen Consort when they went to the Abbey, then a crown was used at the actual crowning and after that another crown was worn during the procession when the King and Queen were leaving the Abbey. The last crown (for the procession) is what we know as Mary of Modena's Crown. Both the Crown and the diademe are now in the Tower, the frame of the crown that was used for the actual crowning is in the Museum of London.
As far as I know, the Crown and diademe are now set with coltured pearls and rocky crystal.
Here are illustrations of the above-mentioned head gear:
Mary of Modena's diademe
The crown that was used for the crowning of the Queen Consort
Mary of Modena's crown

Bobby

 

[prince.of.preslav]

I'm not really sure who made the copies. the Lovers knot could be from Butler&Wilson (I got the same), the other items resemble much of works from here :http://www.stagejewellery.com/royal/

Thanks, Alexander! I had totally forgotten about that site (StageJewellery). They do have some nice pieces
Didn't Diana, PoW have some nice stuff from Butler&Wilson (a snake brooch comes to mind)? I checked their site but there aren't any tiaras

Alexander, would it be too insolent (is this the right word to use?) on my part if I ask you to post some photos of your replicas of royal jewels? Perhaps just your favourite piece...

Bobby

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Hi!

The past few day I was thinking of the tiaras in possession of the current claimants to the Russian Imperial throne. The tiaras are not as grand as the ones we have seen the Russian Impresses and Grand Duchesses wear in the past (pre 191 but I find them rather nice. And I was wondering if there is anything known about them?

A ruby and diamond tiara, convertible into necklace. HIH is also wearing mathing earrings here:
The late Grand Duchess Leonida Georgievna wearing a diamond and pearl tiara (note the brooch!):
Maria Vladimirovna wore a diamond and pearl tiara at her wedding and at least once more (perhaps s.o. has a better photo):

Bobby

 

[alexander1917]

I'm not really sure who made the copies. the Lovers knot could be from Butler&Wilson (I got the same), the other items resemble much of works from here :http://www.stagejewellery.com/royal/

Thanks, Alexander! I had totally forgotten about that site (StageJewellery). They do have some nice pieces
Didn't Diana, PoW have some nice stuff from Butler&Wilson (a snake brooch comes to mind)? I checked their site but there aren't any tiaras

Alexander, would it be too insolent (is this the right word to use?) on my part if I ask you to post some photos of your replicas of royal jewels? Perhaps just your favourite piece...

Bobby

Diana bought some stuff from Butler & Wilson. also some earings and so an.

of course. hope that it will be okay, because the're fakes - and by the way I will not occur in rivalry with dear ladymaria

here some of my fav's..
the Greville Boucheron Tiara
the Empress Alexandra Tiara (ruby instead of saphires)
the Empress Alexandra Aquamarin Tiara

 

[alexander1917]

and
the Dehli necklace in the original one is also a Cullinan (VI) there - former bought by King Edward VII and given to Queen Alexandra
the King George VI necklace and Grevile every cut earrings
the King George III Tiara

 

[alexander1917]

and as the Culinans were discussed above
the Cullinan V heart brooch
the Cullinan I and II brooch (QM wore it at her breast)
the Empress Maria Feodorovna saphire choker, MF saphire real drop brooch, Teck corsage brooch, Queen Alexandra pearl necklace, Albert brooch, Q Mary's russian saphire brooch

 

[laurensmama]

Wow are those the only pieces the Russian royal family has left? Queen Mary got the best of the lot!

 

[alexander1917]

Wow are those the only pieces the Russian royal family has left? Queen Mary got the best of the lot!

I don't know if this jewels were taken from russia.
I think that could seen in categories
first, great parures which were left in russia (and the Crown Jewels - which were partly sold later by the sovjets or still in the Kremlin.)
second, taken with the rightful owner outside but later sold as the main income
third, smaller items - daytime jewels f.e. MF's famous box

and maby other items (family portraits, photos, letters) were in the first place to take with them.

from time to time the descendants sell items. like the GD Helen Vlad. saphire brooch and earrings last year

 

[alexander1917]

Hi!

The past few day I was thinking of the tiaras in possession of the current claimants to the Russian Imperial throne. The tiaras are not as grand as the ones we have seen the Russian Impresses and Grand Duchesses wear in the past (pre 191 but I find them rather nice. And I was wondering if there is anything known about them?

A ruby and diamond tiara, convertible into necklace. HIH is also wearing mathing earrings here:[attachment=3]53900157.jpg[/attachment]
The late Grand Duchess Leonida Georgievna wearing a diamond and pearl tiara (note the brooch!):[attachment=2]LeonidaGeorgievnaFormal.jpg[/attachment]
Maria Vladimirovna wore a diamond and pearl tiara at her wedding and at least once more (perhaps s.o. has a better photo):[attachment=1]MariaVladimirovna.jpg[/attachment]

Bobby

couldn't these pieces not also a jeweller loan?
another wed.pic

 

[Principessa]

I would Really like to know were I can find more pictures of the dresses above

Queen Shelly, I hope you'll like these few from my possession...forgot where I found them...sorry..
Enjoy!

 

[Principessa]

These two are from Getty Images , Queen Mary's coronation dress.
I wonder it her sleeves are made of strung pearls and perhaps small stones?

 

[Principessa]

This is dress must be for the coronation of Queen Alexandra and Edward VII given Princes of Wales(Mary of Teck) young age at these photos. BUt here are two pictures from the actual Queen Mary's Coronation .

 

[Principessa]

Hi Bobby,

Mary of Modena had a diadem (that is still part of the crown jewels) that she wore to Westminster Abbey for her coronation, a coronation crown of her own that one report says no longer exists and another says is in the Museum of London. Then there is a State Crown that she wore for leaving the Abbey and for other state occations, though the diadem was also used. Queen's Regent and Consort including Mary II, Anne, and the wofe of George II all wore the diadem and the state crown at various points. The state crown, like the diadem, is in the crown jewels today. I have seen them, they are gold, and were set with gems for a coronation and fake pearls and crystals for display after. Some years ago the fake pearls were replaced with cultured pearls, but the crystals remain.

I dodn't know why but for some odd reason I wrote tiara instead of diademe, when I'm sure I meant a diademe. I guess it's the headache to blame...
Anyway, thanks for the additional info and the link (there are some great photos there of the Pahlavis & the Windsors).
Here are my two cents - Queen Mary (of Modena)'s diademe (this time I really mean diademe) was last used by Queen Adelaide in 1831 and the crown by Queen Charlotte in 1761. The diademe was usually worn by a Queen Consort when they went to the Abbey, then a crown was used at the actual crowning and after that another crown was worn during the procession when the King and Queen were leaving the Abbey. The last crown (for the procession) is what we know as Mary of Modena's Crown. Both the Crown and the diademe are now in the Tower, the frame of the crown that was used for the actual crowning is in the Museum of London.
As far as I know, the Crown and diademe are now set with coltured pearls and rocky crystal.
Here are illustrations of the above-mentioned head gear:
Mary of Modena's diademe
The crown that was used for the crowning of the Queen Consort
Mary of Modena's crown

Bobby

I think you will appreciate this picture!

 

[Principessa]

...and Queen Mary of Modena Crown again...

 

[prince.of.preslav]

Alexander, your replicas are gorgeous!!! Thank you for sharing them with us here! Wsh I had jewels like that of my own to share with you... I'm in love with the aquamarine kokoshnik and the fringe tiara
Where did you find all these? Would i be too much to ask for a photo of the Lover's Knot tiara?

Bobby

 

[prince.of.preslav]

I think you will appreciate this picture!

Nice replicas of Mary of Modena's crown and diademe, Principessa. Thanks for posting them!

...and Queen Mary of Modena Crown again...

This one is quite different from MoM's crown. And is yet another copie, I believe. Its nice, though.

Bobby

 

[alexander1917]

Alexander, your replicas are gorgeous!!! Thank you for sharing them with us here! Wsh I had jewels like that of my own to share with you... I'm in love with the aquamarine kokoshnik and the fringe tiara
Where did you find all these? Would i be too much to ask for a photo of the Lover's Knot tiara?

Bobby

many thanks.

the aqua tiara is one of my most favs. (of course the complete set I own LOL)

some are german some UK products, and it take long to collect ... for the materials some are normal paste or diamante stones the large stones are most CZ.

yes I'll do it and post it later.

 

[alexander1917]

here the two Lover's knot tiara I have

the second one (smaler one) is this which was produced by Butler & Wilson. they also offered the Girls of GB Tiara in a nice version.

 

[alexander1917]

Hi Bobby,

Mary of Modena had a diadem (that is still part of the crown jewels) that she wore to Westminster Abbey for her coronation, a coronation crown of her own that one report says no longer exists and another says is in the Museum of London. Then there is a State Crown that she wore for leaving the Abbey and for other state occations, though the diadem was also used. Queen's Regent and Consort including Mary II, Anne, and the wofe of George II all wore the diadem and the state crown at various points. The state crown, like the diadem, is in the crown jewels today. I have seen them, they are gold, and were set with gems for a coronation and fake pearls and crystals for display after. Some years ago the fake pearls were replaced with cultured pearls, but the crystals remain.

I dodn't know why but for some odd reason I wrote tiara instead of diademe, when I'm sure I meant a diademe. I guess it's the headache to blame...
Anyway, thanks for the additional info and the link (there are some great photos there of the Pahlavis & the Windsors).
Here are my two cents - Queen Mary (of Modena)'s diademe (this time I really mean diademe) was last used by Queen Adelaide in 1831 and the crown by Queen Charlotte in 1761. The diademe was usually worn by a Queen Consort when they went to the Abbey, then a crown was used at the actual crowning and after that another crown was worn during the procession when the King and Queen were leaving the Abbey. The last crown (for the procession) is what we know as Mary of Modena's Crown. Both the Crown and the diademe are now in the Tower, the frame of the crown that was used for the actual crowning is in the Museum of London.
As far as I know, the Crown and diademe are now set with coltured pearls and rocky crystal.
Here are illustrations of the above-mentioned head gear:
Mary of Modena's diademe[attachment=3]MoM_diademe.JPG[/attachment]
The crown that was used for the crowning of the Queen Consort[attachment=2]QC_Cor_crown.JPG[/attachment]
Mary of Modena's crown[attachment=1]MoM_crown.JPG[/attachment]

Bobby

I think you will appreciate this picture!

this are copies made by a janitor from berlin. he used svaroski stones and already made the UK jewels, prussia, french (king and emporer), russia and is now working on the german roman empire stuff.
his works go from time to time on display.

 

[Principessa]

What a fabulous hobby the man has,Alexander!!! don't you think?
do you know if he "resurrects" some of the jewels that were broken down or which are known only from pictures?
Just curious..I really don't intend to purchase! LOL
Thank you for sharing!
liza