Shorts too short...should I tell her??

[MollyMalone]

Thanks, aljdewey! My very first reaction upon reading Dreamer D's pointed query was "WTH? she thinks that my son needs a lesson on not judging a woman based upon what she's wearing? Her shot across the bow shows she herself has leaped to a conclusion based upon a fleeting snapshot."

I was bemused by my son's comment because it's that of a person who is up for assuming what I consider an appropriately parental role... and because it brought home the fact that I don't always remember, in the truest sense, that he is not the adolescent I butted heads with, he is a mature adult. Something my own mother sometimes forgot when I was in my 20's. Witness the fact that the night before my wedding, she came into the den where my brother & I were talking and laughing (we are very close & hadn't seen each other for a couple of months) and said, "Think you two should be in bed, we have a big day ahead of us tomorrow" -- which sent my brother & me into guffaws of laughter & hoots about how we would have forgotten I was getting married if she hadn't reminded us & how did we ever get through college without her being around to tell us we needed sleep. So the fact that I was surprised to hear my son say something parental meant that Yikes, I too am guilty of being that mom.

I understood it was tough for the DA Office, high school student interns, and even some of the college ones -- male and female -- to simultaneously straddle their two worlds (altho' those weren't the only ones I did clothing counseling with; there was even a middle-aged new hire who needed it). That's why I had some lockers installed & arranged for them to get a nice discount at Lord & Taylor. It was fun for me to see that, as the school year progressed, they would abandon using the lockers; they came from/went to school in their "office clothes", signifying they were taking pride in their accomplishments -- holding a "grown-up" job -- rather than just their bodies.

 

[MollyMalone]

When I first started working, in the late 90s, one of the companies would not allow females to wear pants unless they ALSO wore a jacket/sweater that covered their butt completely. Another company I worked for straight out of college would not allow females to wear pants, period. Imagine that...just 15-20 years ago.

Although I'm older than you, not even my first employer prohibited women from wearing pants. But I was dumbfounded to see, on my first week as a prosecutor, that one of the judges had posted a sign on the door to his courtroom saying "Women attorneys in pants should not enter." That was one of the things that galvanized us, relatively few (at the time) women lawyers to form a county-wide women's bar association. On the up side, more than 1/3 of our members in our very first year were men, ETA including several other judges & my boss, the District Attorney

 

[blackprophet]

My teen daughter interpreted this trend and the accompanying slang for us.

These shorts are called "booty shorts".

And you only wear them if you are "thirsty" (horny ).

They are often worn by a girl who is a "ratchet" (ethnic trashy) or "basic" (caucasian trashy).

So . . . yeah . . . chances are she knew exactly what she was wearing.

Since people are arguing definitions, I'll let everyone know there was something lost in Translation here.

Thirsty = seeking attention

Ratchet = Ignorant in a trashy way. But this more about your lifestyle then your mind set. The way you act, the way your dress, the things you do.

Basic = Stupid

 

[Sky56]

I dress very conservatively and am not a fan of many styles, but I live by the "Mind Your Own Business" rule when it comes to strangers unless someone needs help from imminent danger. I have a tendency to be that way with family and friends, also.

 

[luv2sparkle]

I didn't read all of the last two pages, so if this has been said over and over, I'm sorry. But to say that someone shouldn't judge you by your clothing choices is absolutely ridiculous. Everything you wear in public as well as what you say and do leads the rest of the people to form and opinion about you. If someone is driving a fancy car and dripping in diamonds an observer will think, " that person is wealthy" whether or not it is true. How you present yourself to the world is your choice, but don't say no one has a right to judge because your attire is doing the shouting. If you don't want people to think X about you than don't dress like X. It is not rude, unless you are rude to them. It is the way our brains work. It's how we decide a situation is safe or unsafe, or a person is safe or unsafe. Without the ability to form these opinions in our heads we would all be in big trouble.

Not to say that a person should be written off, or not given a chance to form a different opinion. It is true that all my not be as it seems. But a persons fashion or modesty choices do say something about them. It's their choice to dress how they choose but you can't say that people shouldn't 'judge' them for it because it is the message they are sending out.

 

[CJ2008]

No, she can feel them and she has a mirror. Shorts being too short is just an opinion.

I dunno... when your 26-year-old son comments, upon seeing an attractive teen girl sashay, with her parents, past us at a neighborhood restaurant at brunch last week, "they let her out of the house in those, jeezus, what are they thinking?", I'd say those shorts are too short.

Or maybe the 26 year old son needs a lesson in judging women based on clothing choices, or assuming that parents need to police young women's attire

I have to admit, Dreamer, that if I had a daughter, I'd definitely be policing what she's wearing, until I no longer can/she's and adult.

But if she's a teen and it's like "but mom, everyone's showing their butt cheeks!" Huh...NO.

However - this made me stop to think - would I do the same to a boy? But the thing is for the most part mean don't have as many "sexually" thought of parts...a men's chest doesn't equal a woman's chest...but even then, if say, my son wanted to wear a super tight super see through white shirt to dinner I would find it inappropriate and would definitely police it - while I can.

 

[CJ2008]

Not to say that a person should be written off, or not given a chance to form a different opinion. It is true that all my not be as it seems.

Totally agree with you luv2sparkle, but I think it's the above that we all need to aspire to and remind ourselves about.

Although of course it's unrealistic to think that there's enough "time" in most situations for that happen. Sometimes we meet someone for only a brief moment and the only opinion we get to form will be influenced and shaped mostly by how that person is presenting themselves. More often than not we don't even meet them - it's people we see out and about.

I just think it's important to continually remind our children our nieces our nephews that not all is what it seems - because there are different levels of judgment. Mild (although mild doesn't always = harmless) might be "that person looks trampy" or "that person is seeking attention" - it's a thought on a superficial level, and that's it.

But on the other end, on the extreme, is "that person is saying she wants sex, and would have sex, with anybody who asks." That's the "link" that needs to be broken - in teenagers, male and female, especially, since we still have a shot at influencing their thinking.

 

[kenny]

A timely article about a high school girl's short shorts and her high school.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/teen-girl-accuses-her-school-of-slut-shaming-her-jorts

 

[monarch64]

A timely article about a high school girl's short shorts and her high school.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/teen-girl-accuses-her-school-of-slut-shaming-her-jorts

Yup. That crap happens every day. I'll see your jorts and raise you some doctored yearbook pics:

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/05/29/3442567/utah-high-school-yearbook/

Pretty ridiculous. All those sluts tempting their poor innocent male counterparts, yanno.

 

[chrono]

Do men wear shorts this short too?

 

[MollyMalone]

A timely article about a high school girl's short shorts and her high school.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/teen-girl-accuses-her-school-of-slut-shaming-her-jorts

The high school's dress code is gender-neutral:
http://beaconsfield.lbpsb.qc.ca/conduct.htm

Personally, I think dresses & skirts are more comfortable in hot, humid weather than having, e.g., denim around-between my thighs. Apparently, some of my son's male, NYC high school classmates agreed because on clammy, hot days in the fall and spring, they would wear skirts to school (which had a gender-neutral dress code).

 

[LoversKites]

Do men wear shorts this short too?

I've seen a few boys wear them at my school. Maybe slightly longer and baggier. Not nearly as common as girls though.

 

[iLander]

If you don't want people to go , then don't dress that way.

Shaming them for looking is entrapment.

 

[Stephny691]

Sooooo . . . what exactly is the definition of loose morals?

Any morals looser than mine, of course.
I mean, it's just common sense.
It's just obvious my morals are correct and shared by everyone.

Just skipped ahead to post a reply to this. I was once told by a Doctor (he had been asking my sexual history and I wasn't proud of some of it and I said so, my exact words being "I was a bit of a slut") and the Doctor turned around and said "There is no such thing as a slut, a slut is just someone who has had more partners than you, whether it's 1 more or 50 more- so sluts don't exist, don't think of yourself that way."

And I have to say it was a very refreshing attitude and ever since that conversation I have actually made some sort of peace with my past. But to keep on topic, I try and make a concerted effort to not judge people on what they look like, I don't want to be one of those people that's "What was she THINKING!? She's looks such a mess." I don't want to be that person, I don't want to be negative about people I don't know- it's not a pleasant way to be. So I figure- they're happy, they're not hurting anyone, leave it at that.
I don't always manage to do it obviously, but I do really try.

 

[monarch64]

Sooooo . . . what exactly is the definition of loose morals?

Any morals looser than mine, of course.
I mean, it's just common sense.
It's just obvious my morals are correct and shared by everyone.

Just skipped ahead to post a reply to this. I was once told by a Doctor (he had been asking my sexual history and I wasn't proud of some of it and I said so, my exact words being "I was a bit of a slut") and the Doctor turned around and said "There is no such thing as a slut, a slut is just someone who has had more partners than you, whether it's 1 more or 50 more- so sluts don't exist, don't think of yourself that way."

And I have to say it was a very refreshing attitude and ever since that conversation I have actually made some sort of peace with my past. But to keep on topic, I try and make a concerted effort to not judge people on what they look like, I don't want to be one of those people that's "What was she THINKING!? She's looks such a mess." I don't want to be that person, I don't want to be negative about people I don't know- it's not a pleasant way to be. So I figure- they're happy, they're not hurting anyone, leave it at that.
I don't always manage to do it obviously, but I do really try.

I love your post SO MUCH.

 

[decodelighted]

here in Australia where it is hot I have seen 20,30 and 40 year old women that are extremely overweight with large rolls hanging out of uber uber short shorts. Now THAT isn't a good look!!!!

says you

 

[Sky56]

I wore hot pants and micro-mini skirts in 1970 with chunky sandals.
Now I wear jeans and plaid men's shirts with sensible shoes.

 

[LaraOnline]

here in Australia where it is hot I have seen 20,30 and 40 year old women that are extremely overweight with large rolls hanging out of uber uber short shorts. Now THAT isn't a good look!!!!

says you

lol but we all have opinions so I don't feel it's 'wrong' to make that call (to yourself).

 

[arkieb1]

here in Australia where it is hot I have seen 20,30 and 40 year old women that are extremely overweight with large rolls hanging out of uber uber short shorts. Now THAT isn't a good look!!!!

says you

lol but we all have opinions so I don't feel it's 'wrong' to make that call (to yourself).

Hang on a minute aren't we all making judgement calls about what is and isn't appropriate and what we do and don't like the look of? I am one of those people with excess jiggly bits so it wasn't an attack on overweight people. One of my best friends is morbidly obese and I think even she would surprise you and say yep there are things that you see in QLD that aren't a particularly good look, she has commented when she has visited me that she can't believe that person is wearing that..... I think you would have to see it to fully appreciate what I am talking about.

There are inappropriate ways for people of all body sizes to dress. We are all human we all make snap judgements when we see or meet people based on their appearance regardless of if we like that or not. It's human nature.

 

[kenny]

Sooooo . . . what exactly is the definition of loose morals?

Any morals looser than mine, of course.
I mean, it's just common sense.
It's just obvious my morals are correct and shared by everyone.

Just skipped ahead to post a reply to this. I was once told by a Doctor (he had been asking my sexual history and I wasn't proud of some of it and I said so, my exact words being "I was a bit of a slut") and the Doctor turned around and said "There is no such thing as a slut, a slut is just someone who has had more partners than you, whether it's 1 more or 50 more- so sluts don't exist, don't think of yourself that way."

And I have to say it was a very refreshing attitude and ever since that conversation I have actually made some sort of peace with my past. But to keep on topic, I try and make a concerted effort to not judge people on what they look like, I don't want to be one of those people that's "What was she THINKING!? She's looks such a mess." I don't want to be that person, I don't want to be negative about people I don't know- it's not a pleasant way to be. So I figure- they're happy, they're not hurting anyone, leave it at that.
I don't always manage to do it obviously, but I do really try.

Just to be clear, my post was entirely tongue in cheek.

 

[Stephny691]

Sooooo . . . what exactly is the definition of loose morals?

Any morals looser than mine, of course.
I mean, it's just common sense.
It's just obvious my morals are correct and shared by everyone.

Just skipped ahead to post a reply to this. I was once told by a Doctor (he had been asking my sexual history and I wasn't proud of some of it and I said so, my exact words being "I was a bit of a slut") and the Doctor turned around and said "There is no such thing as a slut, a slut is just someone who has had more partners than you, whether it's 1 more or 50 more- so sluts don't exist, don't think of yourself that way."

And I have to say it was a very refreshing attitude and ever since that conversation I have actually made some sort of peace with my past. But to keep on topic, I try and make a concerted effort to not judge people on what they look like, I don't want to be one of those people that's "What was she THINKING!? She's looks such a mess." I don't want to be that person, I don't want to be negative about people I don't know- it's not a pleasant way to be. So I figure- they're happy, they're not hurting anyone, leave it at that.
I don't always manage to do it obviously, but I do really try.

Just to be clear, my post was entirely tongue in cheek.

Kenny- I thought your post was tongue in cheek don't worry! It's just it reminded me of what this Doctor once said.

monarch64- Thank you The Doctor really did make me think differently. I know the rest may have sounded a bit holier than thou, but I used to be a really negative person, about myself and other people and I woke up one day and realised I didn't like who I was, so I try not to be that way any more, for me it's just a nicer way to live.That's probably really obvious to everyone else, it just took me awhile to get there.

 

[CJ2008]

Kenny- I thought your post was tongue in cheek don't worry! It's just it reminded me of what this Doctor once said.

monarch64- Thank you The Doctor really did make me think differently. I know the rest may have sounded a bit holier than thou, but I used to be a really negative person, about myself and other people and I woke up one day and realised I didn't like who I was, so I try not to be that way any more, for me it's just a nicer way to live.That's probably really obvious to everyone else, it just took me awhile to get there.

I didn't read it that way I felt like it was clear that's what you strive for...and it resonated with me when you said you don't want to be that negative person. I don't want to either, especially as I get older!

It made me stop to think whether my posts may have come off that way because I also talked about not judging. But OF COURSE it's always about striving for that...none of us are perfect. We all make snap judgments. It's about the thought we give it later, when we're discussing it with others like on this forum that we get further and sometimes learn something we did not realize before.

 

[Stephny691]

.

I didn't read it that way I felt like it was clear that's what you strive for...and it resonated with me when you said you don't want to be that negative person. I don't want to either, especially as I get older!

It made me stop to think whether my posts may have come off that way because I also talked about not judging. But OF COURSE it's always about striving for that...none of us are perfect. We all make snap judgments. It's about the thought we give it later, when we're discussing it with others like on this forum that we get further and sometimes learn something we did not realize before.

We do all make snap judgements- even if you try not to, you're going to. That's pretty much how humans are wired to be, I think the important thing is to make sure you don't hold onto those judgements.

Some people would never change their opinion of someone despite evidence to the contrary and that's the kind of stubbornness I don't like.