Should Hillary throw in the towel?....

[MoonWater]

Haha, you think he did it early? So many people I''ve spoken to are asking why he took so long. Some think he''s lame for waiting until it was pretty much certain that Obama would be the nom. When did you think he would endorse?

 

[FrekeChild]

I'm glad he did it. In a lot of ways I think it's basically a signal from the rest of the party to Hillary. But honestly, I was watching interviews with her yesterday and she's just not as *there* as she used to be. She's lost her edge or something. And after seeing that, it makes me think that she knows that she's not going to win, she's just not giving up yet. When she was being interviewed by Wolf Blitzer, he held up a copy of the the latest issue of TIME magazine and asked her, "What do you think of this cover?" And she said, "I think it's a great picture of Barack." And went on to say how no matter what she'd fight for the Democratic party. She's just got a different tone...anyway...

latest TIME cover

In other news:
Clinton's campaign in 20 million dollars in the red.
Obama says that Edwards and Clinton are on the short list for potential Vice Presidential Candidates.

Hmmm...

 

[strmrdr]

I like it the way it is.
I think the fight is bringing out the true colors in both candidates.
I cant stand any of the 3 but the more the people know the candidates the better.
I know a lot of people that used to support Hillary that are just sick at seeing her true colors emerge.
I just laugh she is just like her husband and as slimy except without the slickness to cover the edges.
Better now than when/if she was in the white house.

 

[MoonWater]

Well, this may be the first time I''ve agreed with the woman in a while. That is a great picture of Barack!

 

[FrekeChild]

I know! He looks great!

 

[FrekeChild]

Bush attacking Obama in Israel.

 

[zoebartlett]

I like the idea of everyone getting a say in the primary, as much as I wish it was over already.

Why can't the primaries be on the same day, just like the general election? I'm in the "first in the nation primary" state and we voted so early. It's hard to believe that they're still going on, so many months later. I feel like so much has been said by both Dem. candidates since our primary -- what if what they said since changed my mind? I'm not sure that sentence makes sense but hopefully you know what I mean.

Anyway, so although I do think Obama will win the Dem. nomination and it would be nice to get on with the next phase of campaigning, I do think everyone's voice has a right to be heard. I just wish it were on the same day (or within the same week or something).

Speaking of getting on with the next phase of campaigning, why is that so much MORE time is spent on the primary than the general election? I really want to begin seeing McCain and the Dem. nominee (who I think will be Obama, as I said earlier) debate. Where has McCain been?

 

[FrekeChild]

I don't know where he's been Zoe, but today he's been making outlandish fairytale claims, read more here..

ETA: I agree with the primary season lasting WAY TOO LONG.

 

[miraclesrule]

Is it a good thing that when I get home, the first place I go after feeding my cats, is to this PS thread to see what everyone has written?

I''m pretty sure it is.

 

[FrekeChild]

Lol miracles. I think it is.

Freke's Daily Delegate Count:

Obama
Super delegates: 291
Total delegates: 1,899

Clinton
Super delegates: 274
Total delegates: 1,719

Difference of 180 delegates in Obama's favor. That's an increase of 14 delegates for him since yesterday.

I'm guessing that has something to do with Edwards' endorsement and his delegates going to Obama.

 

[Elmorton]

Dude, Zoe, I''m with ya...the other day I was listening to election coverage and thinking that it seemed like a year ago that I was freezing my rear off to get into the caucus! I can''t imagine how exhausting this must be for the candidates if it''s exhausting just to watch.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Edwards just want to be VP, if Clinton was ahead he would of endorse her.

 

[Elmorton]

Well...yeah...if I were in his position, I''d do the exact same thing.

DH and I were talking about this the other day though - we caucused for Edwards (*ducks* - we didn''t think at that point that Obama was a viable candidate!), and wonder if the delegates that we elected will vote for Obama since Edwards endorsed him. Does it work that way?

 

[FrekeChild]

Of course he is. But a lot of people voted for Edwards, and if he gets behind Obama(and is trying to be VP-even though it didn't work 4 years ago), all the better for Obama. It's a clear sign from him (and probably other prominent Dems) that Clinton hasn't much of a chance anymore.

For the most part it seems to Elmorton. I watched CNN for most of the day and they had a discussion about how Edwards' delegates would follow his lead and vote for Obama. I'm sure they can do whatever they want-but that's a lot of pressure, you know?

 

[ksinger]

Date: 5/15/2008 6:06:24 PM
Author: FrekeChild
Bush attacking Obama in Israel.

Yep. And the more times our Smearer In Chief with popularity ratings in the toilet in both parties, stands next to his best buddy McCain, the more he''s gonna help out Obama.

And here''s a little tidbit: http://themoderatevoice.com/places/asia/middle-east/palestine/gaza/19669/john-mccain-for-talking-to-hamas-before-he-was-against-it/

excerpt:
In what could prove to be a damaging moment for the McCain campaign, Former Clinton Administration State Department spokesman James Rubin has written an op-ed highlighting an interview he conducted with McCain a few years ago for Sky News in the UK. In the interview, conducted shortly after Hamas’ victory in Palestinian elections, the following exchange occurred:

[Rubin] asked: “Do you think that American diplomats should be operating the way they have in the past, working with the Palestinian government if Hamas is now in charge?”

McCain answered: “They’re the government; sooner or later we are going to have to deal with them, one way or another, and I understand why this administration and previous administrations had such antipathy towards Hamas because of their dedication to violence and the things that they not only espouse but practice, so . . . but it’s a new reality in the Middle East. I think the lesson is people want security and a decent life and decent future, that they want democracy. Fatah was not giving them that.”

And why do the words of that immortal 1965 Tom Lehrer classic "Send The Marines" keep running through my head?

..they have to be protected!
all their rights respected!
until someone we LIIIKE can be elected!

Only this time it didn''t work out quite they way we''d hoped....

 

[FrekeChild]

Hi Karen!!!!!

I think that their are digging themselves into a huge hole, and sometime around November 4th, they''re going to have to try to get themselves out of it. Regardless of whether or not it''ll be successful, it should be entertaining!!

 

[AGBF]

Date: 5/16/2008 2:29:09 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
Edwards just want to be VP, if Clinton was ahead he would of endorse her.

Why do you say this?

Deborah

 

[FrekeChild]

Freke''s Daily Delegate Count

Obama
total: 1,904
super: 292

Clinton
total: 1,717
super: 274

Obama is ahead by 187. That is an increase of 7 delegates since yesterday, with a pick up of only one superdelegate.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/16/2008 11:47:45 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 5/16/2008 2:29:09 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
Edwards just want to be VP, if Clinton was ahead he would of endorse her.

Why do you say this?

Deborah

cuz he''s hoping Obama would pick him as his running mate.

 

[AGBF]

Dancing Fire,

I do not know how you know that John Edwards wants Barack Obama to pick him as his running mate. Senator Edwards has, after all, already been there and done that. (You do remember that he was John Kerry''s running mate in the 2004 elections, do you not?)

If you do have some insight into the situation, however, that is a far cry from alleging that Senator Edwards would sell himself to anyone who won the Democratic nomination for president. In other words, wishing to be Barack Obama''s running mate does not mean that one would would wish to be Hillary Clinton''s running mate.

Furthermore, wishing to be Hillary Clinton''s running mate does not mean that one would sell oneself to be her running mate.

I think you are defaming Senator Edwards and you have still not provided the grounds for why you think he would sink so low; simply saying that he would like to be Barack Obama''s running mate is not grounds for saying that he would sell himself to the highest bidder as you did.

Deborah

 

[MoonWater]

The impression I got from Edwards is that he cares more about poverty issues than being a VP. I think as long as either of them promised to make poverty a focus, he would support them. That said, a lot of people felt Edwards endorsed in order to help the likely nominee battle against the obvious racism that started to come out after West Virginia ('I want someone who is full blooded American' WTF does that mean?). Not to mention the fact that Edwards' stance is more in line with Obama than it ever was Clinton. He was probably praying she wouldn't be the nominee lol. That all said, I really do hope Obama asks Edwards, and Edwards accepts he VP slot.

 

[coatimundi_org]

Edwards has been quoted saying that he is not interested in being VP. It has been circulating for awhile that he held out for a long time, because his wife supports Clinton on healthcare. This makes sense, as Elizabeth Edwards is battling cancer, and I can only imagine her thoughts are with those who don't have access to the health care she has. Clinton's health plan is better as it is more affordable, and it requires that every American be insured. This is more along the lines of what Edwards was planning to do as President--concerning healthcare.

I'd be surprised if Edwards became Obama's running mate.

Attorney General--that is where I'd like to see Edwards, in an Obama administration, of course. ...with Kucinich heading HUD. Okay, now I'm in fantasy land.


oh, and I think his endorsement came at a good time. Enough is enough. Let's get this show on the road.

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 5/17/2008 9:10:04 AM
Author: MoonWater
The impression I got from Edwards is that he cares more about poverty issues than being a VP. I think as long as either of them promised to make poverty a focus, he would support them. That said, a lot of people felt Edwards endorsed in order to help the likely nominee battle against the obvious racism that started to come out after West Virginia (''I want someone who is full blooded American'' WTF does that mean?). Not to mention the fact that Edwards'' stance is more in line with Obama than it ever was Clinton. He was probably praying she wouldn''t be the nominee lol. That all said, I really do hope Obama asks Edwards, and Edwards accepts he VP slot.

Moon, that is a comment from one person - not a whole state of people. And who knows what he really meant? Being West Virginia born and raised (and my entire family still living there) I can tell you that West Virginians, as a whole, are extremely patriotic. I think WV has one of the highest percentages of people who enlist in the military - very disproportianate to most other states. I know some would view that it is un-American to have no military experience and to sit in a congretation where the pulpit is shouting "God damn America", and expect to sit in the White House. Which brings up another point - about church. Church is very much a part of who West Virginians are. Every single West Virginian I know - would never stay a member of a church where they didn''t share the same views as the pastor (much less choosing a church based on furthering your political career). As an example - my very first job was as the congregation and choir pianist at my home church when I was 13 years old. I held that job for 6 years - one of the best things I''ve ever done. However, when I was 19 - the pastor at that time would occasionally preach some things that didn''t sit well with me. I had different views. While I did agree with the pastor''s message as a whole, those few "little things" was a cause on much internal conflict for me. The outcome was that as a 19 year old, not yet college educated, from a blue color hard working family, white girl - my personal integrity would not allow me to continue to sit at that piano stool, sing the praises of the Lord and collect a check. I resigned - and never went back to that church (the church where I had spent my entire life).

I know that there was a question with some of the exit polling - "Did race play a factor in your vote?" I forget the actual percentage of those who said yes (2 in 10, maybe?). That is not the same as asking "Did you not vote for Obama because he is black?" Race could play a factor when you choose not to vote for someone who aligns himself with a hateful, racist preacher. And if you don''t think that matters to West Virginians - please read my first paragraph again.

Also, West Virginians love guns - they''re armed to the teeth. They have one of the best concealed weapons laws - and alot of them are packing (including my Dad). They also have the second lowest crime rate in the USA. So I guess the whole "low income + guns = crime" is proven false in WV.

SO - does WV have its fair share of racists? Probaly - but no more than any other state. Heck, I lived in WV until I was 26 - and I never, not one time, witnessed any kind of racism. Well, not until I moved to Los Angeles. And I can guarantee 100% that there isn''t a West Virginian alive that wouldn''t love for Pat White (quarterback of the West Virginia Mountaineers who happens to be African American) to marry their daughter. Pat is probably the most loved person in the state of WV right now.

We can speculate all day as to why WV voted the way they did - but the TRUTH is that Obama didn''t campaign there. WV loves the Clintons - they elected Bill twice and the Clintons have spent a lot of time getting to know the people. Perhaps Obama should try to change their minds - he has time until November. WV is a democratic state. But he better get crackin'' because I believe McCain is there today. He should take this approach:
http://www.dailymail.com/Opinion/HoppyKercheval/200805130163

 

[MoonWater]

LAJennifer. Sorry to say I didn''t read your whole post because off the bat it seems like something I don''t feel like getting involved in. The gist of what I got is that you are under the impression that *I* am coming to some conclusions about WVa citizens. The fact is, a couple of news sources reported what I said as the reason for Edwards backing and I was simply repeating it. If you have a problem with it, feel free to write to those journalists.

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 5/17/2008 4:28:38 PM
Author: MoonWater
LAJennifer. Sorry to say I didn''t read your whole post because off the bat it seems like something I don''t feel like getting involved in. The gist of what I got is that you are under the impression that *I* am coming to some conclusions about WVa citizens. The fact is, a couple of news sources reported what I said as the reason for Edwards backing and I was simply repeating it. If you have a problem with it, feel free to write to those journalists.

Moon - I''m sure you aren''t someone who enjoys being spoonfed misconceptions from the media. But, since you didn''t read my post - maybe you do.

 

[MoonWater]

Since I specifically said in the post in question that "a lot of people felt Edwards endorsed in order to..." I have no idea why you felt the need to defend your state to ME personally. Frankly, I think Edwards endorsed simply because it's much more obvious that Obama will be the nom. But if you think that means I enjoy being spoonfed, so be it. Seems completely illogical to me. But whatevs

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 5/17/2008 5:04:44 PM
Author: MoonWater
Since I specifically said in the post in question that ''a lot of people felt Edwards endorsed in order to...'' I have no idea why you felt the need to defend your state to ME personally. Frankly, I think Edwards endorsed simply because it''s much more obvious that Obama will be the nom. But if you think that means I enjoy being spoonfed, so be it. Seems completely illogical to me. But whatevs

I believe your words were "That said, a lot of people felt Edwards endorsed in order to help the likely nominee battle against the obvious racism that started to come out after West Virginia (''I want someone who is full blooded American'' WTF does that mean?).

Simply by the statement above, you are buying the media''s bs as to why Obama lost WV. I thought you were a truth seeker - so I wanted to give you some. Also, I presented a link to an article as to an approach that Obama could take to win WV (and the rest of rural Americal) in November - but since you didn''t read my original post, I''m positive you didn''t read the link either. So yeah, whatevs.

 

[MoonWater]

Would it have made you feel better if I put "obvious racism" in quotations or said "what was perceived as obvious racism." Further, the racial tension post the WVa primary wasn't limited to WVa. The reaction also had jack to do with the reason for why Obama lost WVa. People were speculating on why Edwards endorsed WHEN he did and the comments POST primary were the reasons cited. The point was *I* was not judging your state and don't feel like being subjected to any defense of it. This black chick has been to WVa several times (hell we were thinking of going tomorrow). Your post was attacking ME for some belief you think I am holding (though I'll say one thing, that comment from that one person was more than idiotic). I simply corrected you. Take your defense to those journalists. The end.

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 5/17/2008 6:48:09 PM
Author: MoonWater
Would it have made you feel better if I put ''obvious racism'' in quotations or said ''what was perceived as obvious racism.'' Further, the racial tension post the WVa primary wasn''t limited to WVa. The reaction also had jack to do with the reason for why Obama lost WVa. People were speculating on why Edwards endorsed WHEN he did and the comments POST primary were the reasons cited. The point was *I* was not judging your state and don''t feel like being subjected to any defense of it. This black chick has been to WVa several times (hell we were thinking of going tomorrow). Your post was attacking ME for some belief you think I am holding (though I''ll say one thing, that comment from that one person was more than idiotic). I simply corrected you. Take your defense to those journalists. The end.

Moon - I wasn''t attacking you, or defending WV. I was simply explaining the people. I was subjecting you to truth - something that is lacking when an individual can hear a comment from one person and suddenly have and "epiphany" as to the motives of West Virginians (I believe you dropped a link in the other thread that had something to do with this also). Enjoy your trip to WV tomorrow - it truly is a wonderful place with wonderful people.

And when I say "invidudual" or "someone" - I''m not referring to you personally - I''m referring to anyone (media, journalists, random Obama supporters, et al), so there is no need for you to take it so personally (unless you have your own issue with the subject).

 

[MoonWater]

I apologize if I took it personally when you didn't mean for it to be so. But you quoted me and addressed me by name so I (incorrectly) assumed. I posted the comment only to chime in with the speculation on Edwards reasoning. Honestly, I didn't think it made much sense beyond what some had said, which was that his support would help to finally end this competition by helping bring everyone behind Obama. In that way, I suppose no one can make race the focus any more because it won't be white v. black but simply "Here is our candidate. Now lets go after McCain." The link I provided was just to put it out there on the race issue because it was completely new to me. I thought others would find it interesting. There were no secret motives against WVa. Hell, we were considering getting married there and I was proposed to overlooking Harper's Ferry.

As far as visiting tomorrow, I'm not so sure. Our friend ask if we wanted to go and I got excited because I thought he meant hiking or some type of exploring. However, he's talking about the casino because they're giving away free BMWs! lol (Although, I wouldn't mind a new BMW)