Should Hillary throw in the towel?....

[AGBF]

In my opinion John Edwards set the stage for the policies that Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton have proposed. Had it not been for him, neither of them would have had the courage to push for the programs they are pushing for. It was only after they saw that Edwards could take the liberal, "Great Society" positions he did and still get votes that they dared to stand for the programs they now do. And that includes Hillary and health care. Edwards changed the tenor of the campaign. To say that he is more like Barack in one way or more like Hillary in another (health care) is like saying that Einstein takes after one high school science student in some ways and another high school science student in others. It's backwards.

Deborah

 

[FrekeChild]

 

[coatimundi_org]

Date: 5/17/2008 8:08:19 PM
Author: AGBF



In my opinion John Edwards set the stage for the policies that Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton have proposed. Had it not been for him, neither of them would have had the courage to push for the programs they are pushing for. It was only after they saw that Edwards could take the liberal, ''Great Society'' positions he did and still get votes that they dared to stand for the programs they now do. And that includes Hillary and health care. Edwards changed the tenor of the campaign. To say that he is more like Barack in one way or more like Hillary in another (health care) is like saying that Einstein takes after one high school science student in some ways and another high school science student in others. It''s backwards.


Deborah

I agree.

That was a great article you posted awhile back, "The Edwards Effect" by Paul Krugman.

Edwards dropped out too early, and Clinton...has overextended her stay.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/17/2008 7:18:12 AM
Author: AGBF
Dancing Fire,

I do not know how you know that John Edwards wants Barack Obama to pick him as his running mate. Senator Edwards has, after all, already been there and done that. (You do remember that he was John Kerry''s running mate in the 2004 elections, do you not?)

If you do have some insight into the situation, however, that is a far cry from alleging that Senator Edwards would sell himself to anyone who won the Democratic nomination for president. In other words, wishing to be Barack Obama''s running mate does not mean that one would would wish to be Hillary Clinton''s running mate.

Furthermore, wishing to be Hillary Clinton''s running mate does not mean that one would sell oneself to be her running mate.

I think you are defaming Senator Edwards and you have still not provided the grounds for why you think he would sink so low; simply saying that he would like to be Barack Obama''s running mate is not grounds for saying that he would sell himself to the highest bidder as you did.

Deborah

Deb
why do you think Edwards waited for so long to endorse

 

[Dancing Fire]

anyway, i had already made my bet (two months ago) on the Nov. election.

Ronald Reagen was the best President ever!!

 

[movie zombie]

DF, while i always agreed with you re the housing bubble and those those awful tools, we never did agree on politics....and still don''t!

movie zombie

 

[ksinger]

Date: 5/18/2008 4:26:24 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
anyway, i had already made my bet (two months ago) on the Nov. election.

Ronald Reagen was the best President ever!!

That was then, this is now, and Reagan is dead. The times he presided over are dead and gone too. Move on.

And here''s a great big ouchy for Republicans, from none other than Peggy Noonan. When the heavy-hitting party faithful leave the ship in droves, I think it''s in trouble.

http://online.wsj.com/article/declarations.html

 

[FrekeChild]

Freke''s Daily Delegate Count

Obama
total: 1,904
super: 292

Clinton
total: 1,717
super: 274

No change since yesterday.

 

[AGBF]

This is from, "The New York Times". It is an excerpt from a piece by Frank Rich, writing on today's Op-Ed page. I found it to be thoroughly delicious. The facts are the facts in Mississippi.

May 18, 2008
Op-Ed Columnist
McCain Can Run, but Bush Won’t Hide
By FRANK RICH

THE biggest gift President Bush has given his party this year was to keep his daughter’s wedding nearly as private as Connie Corleone’s. Now that his disapproval rating has reached the Nixon nadir of negativity, even a joyous familial ritual isn’t enough to make the country glad to see him. The G.O.P.’s best hope would be for both the president and Dick Cheney to lock themselves in a closet until the morning after Election Day.

Republicans finally recognized the gravity of their situation three days after Jenna Bush took her vows in Crawford. As Hillary Clinton romped in West Virginia, voters in Mississippi elected a Democrat in a Congressional district that went for Bush-Cheney by 25 percentage points just four years ago. It’s the third “safe” Republican House seat to fall in a special election since March.

Party leaders have been haplessly trying to identify possible remedies ever since. It didn’t help that their recent stab at an Obamaesque national Congressional campaign slogan, “The Change You Deserve,” was humiliatingly identified as the advertising pitch for the anti-depressant Effexor. (If they’re going to go the pharmaceutical route, “Viva Viagra” might be more to the point.) Yet for all the Republican self-flagellation, it’s still not clear that the party even understands the particular dimensions of its latest defeat and its full implications for both Congressional races and John McCain in November.

The Mississippi election was actually a runoff, required by law after a preliminary vote left neither candidate with the required 50 percent. In the last round, on April 22, the Democrat, Travis Childers, beat the Republican, Greg Davis, 49 percent to 46 percent. (The rest went to minor candidates.) On Tuesday, that margin increased dramatically: the Republican remained at 46 percent while the Democrat jumped to 54 percent.

What happened in the intervening three weeks helps explain why. The G.O.P. didn’t merely step up its expensive negative campaign, attempting to take down Mr. Childers (who is a white, conservative Democrat) by linking him with Mr. Obama, a ranting Rev. Jeremiah Wright and Nancy Pelosi. It also brought in the party’s big guns. Mr. Bush and Mr. McCain recorded mass phone pitches for Mr. Davis. Karl Rove and Mr. Cheney campaigned for him.

The vice president’s visit was last Monday, the centerpiece of a get-out-the-vote rally in DeSoto County, a G.O.P. stronghold. “We’ll put our shoulders to the wheel for John McCain,” the vice president promised as he bestowed his benediction on Mr. Davis. Well, he got out the vote all right. In the election results the next day, the Childers total in DeSoto County increased 142 percent, while the Davis count went up only 47 percent.

The district as a whole is the second whitest in Mississippi. (Its black population is 27.2 percent.) It’s the sole district Mr. Obama lost to Mrs. Clinton in the state’s Democratic primary in March. Yet even in this unlikely political terrain the combination of a race-based Republican campaign and the personal intervention of Mr. Cheney energized enough white moderates and black voters to flip the district to the Democrats. Keep in mind, it’s the Deep South we’re talking about here. Imagine how the lethal combination of the Bush-Cheney brand and backlash-inducing G.O.P. race-baiting could whip up a torrential turnout by young voters, black voters and independents in true swing states farther north and west.

Go to "The New York Times" website to continue reading the article.

Deborah

 

[FrekeChild]

to that article Deb. Wow. Not surprising, but wow.

 

[ksinger]

Frank Rich''s piece: I quite literally guffawed and giggled all the way through it. Yeah, I bet ol'' McCain is wishing right about now that Bush and Cheney would just sit down and shut up!

 

[AGBF]

I meant to post a link to Frank Rich''s piece in my posting earlier. It is now to late to edit my earlier posting, but here is a link to his piece if you want to finish reading the piece from which I quoted above. (It may not be an actual link. You may have to cut and paste.)


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/opinion/18rich.html?hp


Deborah

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/18/2008 10:12:32 AM
Author: movie zombie
DF, while i always agreed with you re the housing bubble and those those awful <creative financing> tools, we never did agree on politics....and still don''t!

movie zombie

MZ
when did i open my mouth about politics?

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 5/18/2008 7:04:44 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 5/18/2008 10:12:32 AM
Author: movie zombie
DF, while i always agreed with you re the housing bubble and those those awful <creative financing> tools, we never did agree on politics....and still don't!

movie zombie

MZ
when did i open my mouth about politics?

News to me.... But It's been a while since DF has been here, so nice to have you back. I miss your threads about what's for breakfast, now that's something that doesn't get heated. I'll have pancakes.

 

[Dancing Fire]

methink.... Deb,MZ and Ksinger are Dems

 

[ksinger]

Indeed.

Date: 5/18/2008 11:11:42 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
methink.... Deb,MZ and Ksinger are Dems

Indeed. And I suspect that someone who speaks of Reagan in much the same way as The Second Coming, is not.

I am a bit curious why you say he was "the best president ever". What do you base that on? His character? Economic policies? What exactly puts him above a Lincoln or a Washington?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/18/2008 11:43:48 PM
Author: ksinger
Indeed.

Date: 5/18/2008 11:11:42 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
methink.... Deb,MZ and Ksinger are Dems

Indeed. And I suspect that someone who speaks of Reagan in much the same way as The Second Coming, is not.

I am a bit curious why you say he was ''the best president ever''. What do you base that on? His character? Economic policies? What exactly puts him above a Lincoln or a Washington?

b/c he was mean. he took the wall down w/o firing a single shot. remember the Iran hostage crisis and how Carter made a fool of himself? (well,he still does

) anyway,the Iranians knew when Reagan takes office he won''t play games with them, so they decided to release our hostages right before Reagan takes office. i have no doubt that Reagan would of level the whole country of Iran.

btw; Carter was the worst President ever. hmmm....now i forgot what party Carter belong to?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 5/18/2008 11:43:48 PM
Author: ksinger
Indeed.

Date: 5/18/2008 11:11:42 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
methink.... Deb,MZ and Ksinger are Dems

Indeed. And I suspect that someone who speaks of Reagan in much the same way as The Second Coming, is not.

I am a bit curious why you say he was 'the best president ever'. What do you base that on? His character? Economic policies? What exactly puts him above a Lincoln or a Washington?

I would not put him above Washington, above Lincoln? yep even Clinton is above Lincoln in my book.

Why was Reagan a great president? simple he was a leader.
Something we haven't had since and don't have running this time.

Can either of the 3 clowns in the running right now lead the country?
The answer is a resounding..... NO!

 

[ksinger]

Hmm...He was a leader. He was mean. He wouldn''t have flinched at leveling Iran. He single-handedly had the Russians quaking in their shoes so that they tore down the wall just because he was breathing.

In all seriousness, I kinda was looking for a bit more detail, but that will do I guess. I''ve got the general gist.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 5/19/2008 2:51:23 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 5/18/2008 11:43:48 PM

Author: ksinger

Indeed.

Date: 5/18/2008 11:11:42 PM

Author: Dancing Fire

methink.... Deb,MZ and Ksinger are Dems

Indeed. And I suspect that someone who speaks of Reagan in much the same way as The Second Coming, is not.

I am a bit curious why you say he was ''the best president ever''. What do you base that on? His character? Economic policies? What exactly puts him above a Lincoln or a Washington?

b/c he was mean. he took the wall down w/o firing a single shot. remember the Iran hostage crisis and how Carter made a fool of himself? (well,he still does

) anyway,the Iranians knew when Reagan takes office he won''t play games with them, so they decided to release our hostages right before Reagan takes office. i have no doubt that Reagan would of level the whole country of Iran.


btw; Carter was the worst President ever. hmmm....now i forgot what party Carter belong to?

Huh? I thought it was Warren Christopher that negotiated the release of the hostages and that was at the direction of Carter.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 5/19/2008 8:29:52 AM

Author: MoonWater


Huh? I thought it was Warren Christopher that negotiated the release of the hostages and that was at the direction of Carter.

U.S. Department of State
BIOGRAPHY

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SECRETARY OF STATE WARREN CHRISTOPHER

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Warren Christopher was sworn in as the 63rd Secretary of State on January 20, 1993. Prior to his appointment, Secretary Christopher served as Chairman of the law firm, O'Melveny & Myers.

Born in Scranton, North Dakota, on October 27,1925, Mr. Christopher received an undergraduate degree magna cum laude from the University of Southern California in February 1945. From July 1943 to September 1946, he served in the Naval Reserve, with active duty as an ensign in the Pacific Theater. He attended Stanford Law School from 1946-49, where he was President of the Law Review and was elected to the Order of the Coif.

From October 1949 to September 1950, Mr. Christopher served as law clerk to Justice William O. Douglas of the US Supreme Court. He practiced law with the firm of O'Melveny & Myers from October 1950 to June 1967, becoming a partner in 1958. Mr. Christopher served as Deputy Attorney General of the United States from June 1967 until January 20,1969, after which he rejoined O'Melveny & Myers.

Mr. Christopher was sworn in on February 26,1977, as the Deputy Secretary of State and served in that position until January 20,1981. As Deputy Secretary, he is credited with skillfully negotiating the release of 52 American hostages in Iran. He also spearheaded the normalization of relations with China, helped to win ratification of the Panama Canal treaties, and headed the first interagency group on human rights. President Carter awarded him the Medal of Freedom, the nation's highest civilian award, on January 16, 1981."

The Iranians finally agreed to a release date for the hostages on the day President Carter left office, but that was most likely unrelated to who the incoming president was and may, even, have been in part to pay back President Carter for his attack on Iran. The latter has not been suggested by Mr. Christopher, however.

Deborah

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/19/2008 8:29:52 AM
Author: MoonWater


Huh? I thought it was Warren Christopher that negotiated the release of the hostages and that was at the direction of Carter.

LOL....at the direction of Carter.

b/c the Iranians knows Reagan will become the next President.they can''t play Reagan like a puppet like they did with Carter.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 5/19/2008 1:50:14 PM

Author: Dancing Fire

LOL....at the direction of Carter.

b/c the Iranians knows Reagan will become the next President.they can''t play Reagan like a puppet like they did with Carter.

Everyone is entitled to his opinion, whether he has any information with which to back it up or not. When others judge him, however, they will take into account whether he has ever backed up his opinions or merely spouted them.

As Camus said, "tout le monde juge".

Deborah

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 5/19/2008 3:13:06 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 5/19/2008 1:50:14 PM

Author: Dancing Fire

LOL....at the direction of Carter.

b/c the Iranians knows Reagan will become the next President.they can''t play Reagan like a puppet like they did with Carter.

Everyone is entitled to his opinion, whether he has any information with which to back it up or not. When others judge him, however, they will take into account whether he has ever backed up his opinions or merely spouted them.

As Camus said, ''tout le monde juge''.

Deborah

Word. I think the next time I see Secretary Christopher I''m going to tell him that it was actually Reagan that got those hostages released.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 5/19/2008 3:13:06 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 5/19/2008 1:50:14 PM

Author: Dancing Fire
LOL....at the direction of Carter.

b/c the Iranians knows Reagan will become the next President.they can''t play Reagan like a puppet like they did with Carter.

Everyone is entitled to his opinion, whether he has any information with which to back it up or not. When others judge him, however, they will take into account whether he has ever backed up his opinions or merely spouted them.

As Camus said, ''tout le monde juge''.

Deborah

Word x 2.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 5/19/2008 3:13:06 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 5/19/2008 1:50:14 PM

Author: Dancing Fire

LOL....at the direction of Carter.

b/c the Iranians knows Reagan will become the next President.they can''t play Reagan like a puppet like they did with Carter.

Everyone is entitled to his opinion, whether he has any information with which to back it up or not. When others judge him, however, they will take into account whether he has ever backed up his opinions or merely spouted them.

As Camus said, ''tout le monde juge''.

Deborah

The air traffic controllers found out the hard way what Iran already knew.
He wasn''t a man to be messed with.
He would have leveled the country had they not released the hostages.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/19/2008 4:01:05 PM
Author: MoonWater


Word. I think the next time I see Secretary Christopher I'm going to tell him that it was actually Reagan that got those hostages released.

don't need to. why you think the hostages were being release as Reagan was saying "so help me god" with his hand on the bible.

 

[MoonWater]

You really believe a country was so scared of ONE guy before he was even president that they suddenly decided to release the hostages? LMAO...are you kidding? This would be more beleivable if he had been around a few months to actually pull some rank. Apparently Rudy thought the way you did as well...yet still incorrect. Complicated issues don''t tend to be resolved overnight.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/223/

 

[Dancing Fire]

i''ll add MW to the Dems list.

Deb,MZ, Ksinger and MW.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 5/19/2008 7:52:21 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 5/19/2008 4:01:05 PM
Author: MoonWater
Word. I think the next time I see Secretary Christopher I''m going to tell him that it was actually Reagan that got those hostages released.

don''t need to. why you think the hostages were being release as Reagan was saying ''so help me god'' with his hand on the bible.

Because they didn''t want Carter to get credit. That seems pretty obvious.

I suggest, DF, that you produce some facts to back up your argument. Except that I don''t think there are any. So good luck with that.

Again, as Deb said,
"Everyone is entitled to his opinion, whether he has any information with which to back it up or not. When others judge him, however, they will take into account whether he has ever backed up his opinions or merely spouted them.

As Camus said, "tout le monde juge"."