Somebody's Gotta Buy This Stone!

[minousbijoux]

I would agree as well and say I would be happy to try his cutting some time, but am not sure I would want to take the chance on one of his stones either as I too, would worry they would be quite different in hand. CL, even your amethyst is quite different, as you've pointed out - lovely, but different!

 

[digdeep]

Mmmmmm I beg to differ about the backgrounds he uses. Agree he typically uses this blue but he also uses variations.

In any event, I agree with Lady D that his photography distorts the colour of the gems you see when they're in your hand. I hate to say this because he's a lovely guy to work with but I can't buy from him knowing there's a 50/50 chance I will have to send something back.

Before finding this forum I had correspondence with some of the vendors who also happened to be on the list here. I was sometimes asked if I'd seen their name through this forum.......to which I had replied "no". What followed was sometimes a disclosure that the amount of requests for photo's/hand shots/whatever that comes from some people is a real PITA. Maybe you all know this, but I've found the best thing to do is say what I'm looking for and ask the vendor to tell me IF what they have will match what I want............all the technology in the world is useless when our eyes see things differently and our screens show color's differently. I think when you choose not to buy from someone because you don't like the photo background or the pictures or you've returned stones, or because it's Monday......that's fine. But to advertise that on a forum goes a bit over the top. These are incidental issues.......not deceptive practices. I figure every stone I get has a 50/50 chance of staying or going back........until I see it IRL that is the reality I live with.

 

[JewelFreak]

You make some good points, Digdeep, but this is a consumer forum, part of whose purpose is discussions like this. Dan, among other vendors mentioned here, has a lot of respect (and business) from many members, & different opinions on these subjects are welcome and expressed. No accusations of deceptiveness were intended or written -- just comments about how people perceive his photos.

I think it's impossible to compare Dan's photos with Colorluvr's -- different lighting, camera, environment. I take all vendor pics with a grain of salt. Gems have got to be the hardest things on earth to photograph accurately! Reputable folks like Dan do the best they can but it's never gonna be perfect. We all know that.

Written descriptions of stones are problematic too. I bought a tourmaline from a well-respected guy with whom I'd done business before -- photo looked close to what I wanted & when I emailed, he described it as "seafoam," which I was looking for. IRL it was, to me, more sea-green than blue-green. When I returned it, we exchanged chips of what "seafoam" meant to each of us -- and they were different. That's life.

You're right that in-hand is the only way tell about a stone. Shipping back & forth gets expensive so we all -- vendors & buyers -- do the best we can, but you don't win them all.

--- Laurie

 

[chrono]

And sometimes the vendor's idea of a particular colour is different from my perspective. To decrease the chance of returns, it is best for me to find out as much as I can beforehand. When a stone is inexpensive, it is understandable that the vendor has little incentive for additional pictures as his or her time is best doing other business related tasks. That said, perhaps that $100 stone is a lot of money to the buyer and he or she needs the extra reassurance. The buyer is then free to take his or her business elsewhere if not reassured.

 

[digdeep]

Thanks for the comments Jewel Freak. I agree with what you said, and I think we are saying the same thing.

It was LD's last sentence that struck a chord with me........it is her choice who she purchases from, but why air it publicly at Dan's expense? Just my two cents and change............

 

[chrono]

LD is cautioning that regardless of vendor, when a stone has the same colour as the background, it is typically enhanced (just the way gems behave) so expect it to look less blue, less whatever saturated than shown. Since this stone is "recommended", the caution to those interested is that this sapphire is likely to be as blue as pictured because the background colour amps it up. PSers advice so on any and all vendors, not singling out any one in particular by intent to discredit them.

 

[digdeep]

Chrono-- I agree with everything you have said about information, education and making good, well informed decisions......it's this phrase that irk's me as it has nothing to do with that process.

" I can't buy from him knowing there's a 50/50 chance I will have to send something back." That statement was aimed at one vendor - Dan.

Hopefully you veteran's will take a moment to step back and look at what someone 'new' to the forum saw in this statement, that was IMO, better left unpublished as it had nothing to do with education about colored stone purchases. I knew this might be a sensitive issue to bring up, but this isn't the first time I've seen comment's like this. It is however, the first and "maybe" only time, I'll bring it up!

 

[GregS]

It's gone, so somebody bought it. If that person is a member I'd love to see pictures of it.

 

[iLander]

Before finding this forum I had correspondence with some of the vendors who also happened to be on the list here. I was sometimes asked if I'd seen their name through this forum.......to which I had replied "no". What followed was sometimes a disclosure that the amount of requests for photo's/hand shots/whatever that comes from some people is a real PITA. Maybe you all know this, but I've found the best thing to do is say what I'm looking for and ask the vendor to tell me IF what they have will match what I want............all the technology in the world is useless when our eyes see things differently and our screens show color's differently. I think when you choose not to buy from someone because you don't like the photo background or the pictures or you've returned stones, or because it's Monday......that's fine. But to advertise that on a forum goes a bit over the top. These are incidental issues.......not deceptive practices. I figure every stone I get has a 50/50 chance of staying or going back........until I see it IRL that is the reality I live with.

But we WANT them to think of us as a PITA, that's how we get good treatment , full disclosure, and vendors that do a great job for us. That is the PURPOSE of this forum, is that we can all buy with confidence because the vendors are vetted by shared experience. Without that, we would be just like the general public, flailing around, buying glass-infused messes from ebay, or overpaying at the brick and mortar jewelers. If we all minced around, not mentioning the good and the bad, this would be a complete waste of time.

When you read some more threads, you'll realize that we all say the same thing "Ask questions of the vendor (IF what they have will match, yes, we know), ask for extra shots (yes, we know screens are different), check the return policy (we know about the 50/50 return), etc." We don't lightly toss aside a good vendor, and we know that one man's junk is another man's gem treasure.

As for the complaints we are also what's known in marketing terms as "heavy users", a coveted market. We provide a steady business for many. It frees the vendors up to invest in bigger and better rough and stones, since they know that one of us is a potential buyer. If all the vendors were just jumbled on the internet, mashed in with every other shmoe, do you think they would be doing as well with their businesses? I can tell you that the conversion rate (turning internet browser into a buyer) is less than .001%.

They may grumble, and we may grumble, but this is a match made in heaven. For everybody.

Minous- Sorry for the thread jack . . .

 

[chrono]

DigDeep,
Thanks for the clarification; it clears up exactly what you were bothered about. I read that as LD's personal choice since she felt it wasn't worth the risk to her. Everyone is different and that's her decision. She's not in the US and has to pay taxes and duties, which makes it more of a hassle (and cost) to her than to others like you and I.

 

[corundum_conundrum]

I have had very good interactions with Dan in the past. I would order from him in the future.

However, given that he now has a discretionary restocking fee and shipping charge that may be deducted from certain customers' refunds, the accuracy of his photos warrants all the more scrutiny, I should think.

http://www.customgemstones.com/returns.html

 

[minousbijoux]

Before finding this forum I had correspondence with some of the vendors who also happened to be on the list here. I was sometimes asked if I'd seen their name through this forum.......to which I had replied "no". What followed was sometimes a disclosure that the amount of requests for photo's/hand shots/whatever that comes from some people is a real PITA. Maybe you all know this, but I've found the best thing to do is say what I'm looking for and ask the vendor to tell me IF what they have will match what I want............all the technology in the world is useless when our eyes see things differently and our screens show color's differently. I think when you choose not to buy from someone because you don't like the photo background or the pictures or you've returned stones, or because it's Monday......that's fine. But to advertise that on a forum goes a bit over the top. These are incidental issues.......not deceptive practices. I figure every stone I get has a 50/50 chance of staying or going back........until I see it IRL that is the reality I live with.

But we WANT them to think of us as a PITA, that's how we get good treatment , full disclosure, and vendors that do a great job for us. That is the PURPOSE of this forum, is that we can all buy with confidence because the vendors are vetted by shared experience. Without that, we would be just like the general public, flailing around, buying glass-infused messes from ebay, or overpaying at the brick and mortar jewelers. If we all minced around, not mentioning the good and the bad, this would be a complete waste of time.

When you read some more threads, you'll realize that we all say the same thing "Ask questions of the vendor (IF what they have will match, yes, we know), ask for extra shots (yes, we know screens are different), check the return policy (we know about the 50/50 return), etc." We don't lightly toss aside a good vendor, and we know that one man's junk is another man's gem treasure.

As for the complaints we are also what's known in marketing terms as "heavy users", a coveted market. We provide a steady business for many. It frees the vendors up to invest in bigger and better rough and stones, since they know that one of us is a potential buyer. If all the vendors were just jumbled on the internet, mashed in with every other shmoe, do you think they would be doing as well with their businesses? I can tell you that the conversion rate (turning internet browser into a buyer) is less than .001%.

They may grumble, and we may grumble, but this is a match made in heaven. For everybody.

Minous- Sorry for the thread jack . . .

No, please, iLander, no apology necessary! You are helping a newcomer to understand the value of this forum, and that is the greatest value we can serve! Thank you for your excellent explanation, ILander!

 

[minousbijoux]

I am in the U.S. and go by 1) photos; 2) written descriptions; and 3) past history/feedback from other members. I know from personal experience that if you put a stone on a background of similar color, then you amplify the color of the stone. This is, perhaps inadvertently, the result of Dan's photos. If you do a little research on PS of past purchases, you will realize that many of his stones are not quite as intense as they appear in his photos, due to the background color. That is not to say that he doesn't have great stones; its just to say that sometimes folks are disappointed based on the intensity that his photos imply. I agree with LD that if there is a small likelihood that I will be happy with the stone based on photos which amplify the color, and such amplification has been documented in the past, I will likely not risk a purchase as there are enough other factors that make it dicey enough.

Digdeep, I advise you to hang around a bit more and see what you think then.

 

[colorluvr]

Wow....I'm almost sorry I jumped in and mentioned Dan's photos/stones. I was actually trying to defend the quality of his stones by mentioning that I don't think his photos usually do them justice AND I don't think he manipulates the photos, I just think it's his style of photography.

I do however, understand why someone from outside of the US might not want to take the chance on a US vendor if they are afraid they might be disappointed in their stones. I have several of Dan's stones and am pleased with the ones I have (including the purple amethyst). I now hesitate to purchase an expensive stone from a non-US vendor because sending it back with insurance and tracking is quite expensive, even without any restocking fees.

 

[erinl]

I don't know if Dan reads PS but I have purchased one stone from him-- a faceted Welo opal, and I am very happy with it and I have not returned any other stones to him. I have to say that I fear that the wording of his new return policy will put off some buyers. I totally agree about custom faceting and returns-- that could create a problem. However, I do know that some other precision cutters won't cut in certain cuts for clients because they know that the particular cut is less favorable and will be a hard sell. So if it is nice rough cut in a traditional cut, then selling to another client shouldn't be a problem.

Deducting shipping fees from returns seems pretty standard to me, but the 10% restocking fee-- even if this policy isn't applied every time, gives me pause. Returns seem to be part of the nature of online vending-- kind of a pain for the vendor, but you are selling a good that is desired only for its physical looks or attributes, qualities that are very hard to convey by picture or video.

The alternative means of selling stones is traveling to gems shows, which is time consuming and costly, or opening a bricks and mortar shop, which again involves a lot more time and money than an online presence. Everything has a tradeoff.

I don't own five stones from any one vendor (well, maybe Tan??) so I would never be eligible for Dan's client list....

 

[digdeep]

I give up.......being a PITA is important in a transaction? All these same vendors are vetted by this process? Supporting that behavior en masse is important? Seriously?
I am new to this forum, but not new to the world of rocks/gems, so don't assume I need an education, other than the lesson on display right now. What I commented on and tried to be clear about was one sentence that I believed was not appropriate to link with 'educational information' as it was a personal choice/opinion directed at one vendor. That's it.

 

[innerkitten]

I give up.......being a PITA is important in a transaction? All these same vendors are vetted by this process? Supporting that behavior en masse is important? Seriously?
I am new to this forum, but not new to the world of rocks/gems, so don't assume I need an education, other than the lesson on display right now. What I commented on and tried to be clear about was one sentence that I believed was not appropriate to link with 'educational information' as it was a personal choice/opinion directed at one vendor. That's it.

I think the PITA part was said in a joking way.

 

[digdeep]

Thanks innerkitten, that makes a lot more sense that the PITA method........one of the faults of this communication, I cannot read context!

 

[VapidLapid]

In the interest of putting this thread back on topic I think, somebody's gotta buy this stone!

http://www.wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/1080/11514

eta: I mean with the 33% off on red-pink stones right now

 

[minousbijoux]

Hold on a second, VL, need to get my sunglasses...

 

[innerkitten]

Thanks innerkitten, that makes a lot more sense that the PITA method........one of the faults of this communication, I cannot read context!

Me too. It's hard sometimes when things are written instead of spoken.

 

[FrekeChild]

Yes, Dan reads PS. When it suits him.

I also find that sometimes his photos can be harder to read, but since I have bought a number of stones from him, I've gotten better at it. His photos are always on a gray background though, and I think it's really more of a factor of his style of photography with a background as a graphic artist. His photos are always beautiful, they are just not necessarily the most accurate to the stones attributes.

 

[minousbijoux]

Hi Freke! Nice to see you!

 

[FrekeChild]

Hi Freke! Nice to see you!

Hello Minou!!!!

(I haz goodies to share! Tee hee!)

 

[apropos]

In the interest of putting this thread back on topic I think, somebody's gotta buy this stone!

http://www.wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/1080/11514

eta: I mean with the 33% off on red-pink stones right now

My goodness, every corundrum on that site is (IMO) overpriced. Am finding it hard to fathom anyone who will pay $3000 for an opaque pink stone cut en cabochon, even if it is a big one?

 

[chrono]

Wildfish caters to a very specific clientele that prefers to purchase untreated gems that have been mined in a sustaining (of sorts) and fair practice environment. You can read more about it on Ed's website, which he claims costs more to obtain such coloured gems. I have my own opinion on this but this is not the thread for it.

 

[minousbijoux]

These caught my eye: 1.91 tcw precision diamond cut 4.5mm heat only sapphires, $245

Jeff Davies Jewellry https://www.facebook.com/jeffery.davies.9?hc_location=stream

 

[JewelFreak]

I came close to snapping those up, Minou. Not quite the right tone for what I'm looking for, unfortunately. Somebody should take 'em home!

--- Laurie

 

[minousbijoux]

Okay, what am I missing? Maybe not vivid saturation, not great cutting, but 4+cts, unheated blue Ceylon sapphire for $3,350?!!! Not too shabby!

http://www.litnon.com/index.php?page=viewgem&id=9583

Edited for typo

 

[wordie89]

Wow is right! Would those things you mention, Minous, be enough to keep price that reasonable?