Speculation on the Democratic Nominee vs McCain

[Erin]

http://www.gallup.com/poll/105691/McCain-vs-Obama-28-Clinton-Backers-McCain.aspx

It seems the Democratic voters are so polarized, that when it comes general election, it may not matter who our Dem nominee is. Some of my Republican friends are just watching this primary/caucus with disinterest because they claim, in the end, it won''t matter.

In my opinion, the past seven years have proven to be disastrous for our country and I believe McCain''s views on war, foreign policy, economics, environment, health care, education, national infrastructure and other important areas are much the same as those of the Bush administration.

Does anyone else fear the state of our nation if (when?) the Republican McCain is our next President?

 

[diamondfan]

If you really listen to McCain, he does NOT seem to want to have a continuation of things. He is not well liked by Bush administration because he is not on board with them all the time. I am waiting to see what he says once he really starts campaigning. I think it will be interesting once there is a democratic nominee. I fear some of things each one of them has talked about. However, I am not a big government proponent, so it is tough for me. And all the talk in the world is useless til someone is in the White House, and the other governmental checks and balances come into play.

The Democrats have polarization and this is not new. It is sad, they are getting nasty BUT I do not think Hillary should roll over. Her ten point margin here in PA proved it. But it is getting tough. Neither of them can mathematically win on the delegates alone, even if one of them takes 100% of the ones left. The superdelegates will play a critical role. It is odd to me, the democrats delegate system. They ended up with NEITHER candidate really ahead. It becomes a fight to the end, which cannot do anything positive for the party. How is that fair? His total count is not that far off from hers, yet the numbers do not work. And people still think she should throw in the towel, with primaries still to happen. Why? Since neither can reach 2025 without the superdelegates, it looks like it will come down to the wire. And not allowing Florida or Michigan numbers is absurd. I think she would be in the lead delegate wise if they were. How preposterous to NOT count their results. Not sure why they purposely scheduled their primaries early, knowing the fallout, the whole thing is odd to me. Those delegates are needed to help make the decision.

 

[strmrdr]

No more or less than if Obama or Hillary win.
none of the 3 are what this country needs in my opinion.
We need a president that can pull the country together.
The only president that managed too do that in my lifetime was President Reagan.

 

[Erin]

When it comes to foreign policy, McCain and Bush are extrememly similar. They both believe our idea of democracy is essential in order to justify endless militarism, occupation and war. They believe it is our obligation to re-make the world in our image. By controlling the Middle East we are consuming most of our energy, money, resources and attention. They both believe we should stay there ''as long as it takes'' which could be YEARS. And we tend to cooperate only with foreign countries who support our foreign adventures.

The war is a huge issue to align with. I am all for supporting our troops and making sure they have what they need, but ultimately we are fighting a war which was bizarrely sold to the American public under false pretenses and now look at the outcome.

Are you better off than four years ago?

 

[diamondfan]

I hate that we are in the war. I do not think we have the right to come in and do stuff like that, unless our safety is really at stake. Saddam was a horror, and I am not sorry he is gone, BUT, at the end of it all, what will really have been accomplished?

I do not know enough about McCain''s views on it and what he would really do if elected, so I just repeat that I did hear he has some differences in viewpoint that do distinguish him from Bush in a good way.

As always during elections I think, is this is? Each candidate has strengths and weakness, but our post 9/11 world is so changed. Oil is outrageously high. Joblessness, the environment, healthcare, etc, can anyone say those issues do NOT matter to them? All are important, but Rome was not built in a day. It will take time no matter who is elected. And I just do not trust Obama and Hillary I am really unsure about. Both are smart and want it, but not sure I think either has the experience. McCain HAS the experience, and as long as he is in good health and picks a good running mate, assuming his views are not too nutty, I think he has the stature. His age is not toooo bothersome, I know older people who are super vital and able. His current bill of health is MORE important to me. Anyone can get sick or have something happen health wise, even a younger person. But if he is strong and well now, 4 years is very doable.

 

[MoonWater]

After reading this: http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/04/21/mcgovern_hart/ I''m pretty sure we''re going to end up with McCain.

 

[ksinger]

Except that McCain has admitted publically that he hasn''t the first CLUE about economics. That fills me with absolute terror.

Of course after having just read Kevin Phillips'' "Bad Money", I truly think we are totally screwed economically anyway.

 

[diamondfan]

Raising taxes is NOT the answer totally.

The government needs to trim fat. There is money wasted all over the place.

Raising taxes also can impact consumer spending. If you have to spend more for taxes and other necessities, you have less discretionary income to spend on other things. This causes a ripple effects, profits down, layoffs etc.

I also heard we have crude oil and could help lower gas prices and not be dependent on other nations, but no one wants more refineries to get it out on the market. Americans want their cake and to eat it too. Gas prices are high and there are multiple reasons, but getting the crude refined and out in the marketplace could help ease the crunch. Yet no one wants it, and then Americans, who want to drive everywhere and have gas guzzling cars, get made at the prices. A priority is, of course, finding clean and safe and available fuel alternatives, this is very critical in the scheme of our planet. But in the meantime...

 

[ksinger]

Date: 4/23/2008 9:06:42 PM
Author: diamondfan
Raising taxes is NOT the answer totally.

The government needs to trim fat. There is money wasted all over the place.

Raising taxes also can impact consumer spending. If you have to spend more for taxes and other necessities, you have less discretionary income to spend on other things. This causes a ripple effects, profits down, layoffs etc.

I also heard we have crude oil and could help lower gas prices and not be dependent on other nations, but no one wants more refineries to get it out on the market. Americans want their cake and to eat it too. Gas prices are high and there are multiple reasons, but getting the crude refined and out in the marketplace could help ease the crunch. Yet no one wants it, and then Americans, who want to drive everywhere and have gas guzzling cars, get made at the prices. A priority is, of course, finding clean and safe and available fuel alternatives, this is very critical in the scheme of our planet. But in the meantime...

Yes money is wasted. But desperately needed is the spending of monies on such things as ensuring our safe food supply, in funding REAL science, not vacuous talking heads worked by government puppetmasters, to name but a few. Stop this war and you''ll have a MAJOR fat trimmage, since most of the money spent goes to contractors like Blackwater anyway.

As for oil, I really don''t know where you heard that, or in what context. Number one, if we were sitting on enough oil to drill out and power us, we''d have done it long ago and saved ourselves the troubles in the Middle East. We may indeed have crude to be got, but the cost of diminishing returns is kicking in. I live in Oklahoma, and there ain''t much drilling HERE, I can tell ya. Number 2, many oil experts think the world has already seen, or will see THIS YEAR, "peak oil", a point from which world oil production inevitably declines, although not the demand for this decreasing resource. We''ve all been told that oil is a finite resource, well I suspect we are seeing the first effects of it in our lifetimes. In fact in the words of King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia just last year, "The oil boom is over and will not return. All of us must get used to a different lifestyle." Bottom line, and we all knew this, Americans were NOT going to change their lifestyle one iota until FORCED to do so. Granting ourselves cheap gas at the pump again, (even if we could, and I seriously doubt a few extra refineries would do it, and if so for only a short time), will only encourage us all to lapse back into a dangerous torpor.

While you are correct that oil pricing is complex, the real danger is that in ''74 we tied our currency to Saudi and OPEC. They agreed to require payment for their oil by all parties - in dollars, effectively backing our dollar, recently completely uncoupled from gold, with THEIR OIL. All other countries were effectively forced to carry huge reserves of dollars to buy their energy. What a deal, eh?? But now the Saudis, like most in the Middle East are PISSED at our invasion of Iraq. Our house of cards is looking more than a bit shaky. PLUS, with the tanking of our dollar, the contempt with which our accounting practices are now held, and the increased demand from countries with currencies that actually are based on manufacturing rather than inflating debt on paper, they are seriously considering going off the dollar standard. Iraq did so before the invasion (hence the deeper reason for the invasion: make an example of any oil producer daring to take anything but dollars for oil), and Iran is doing it THIS minute with their oil bourse, (hence the increase in sabre-rattling by The Shrub). I''m sure you see how if that happens we ARE well and truly screwed.

Please please PLEASE read "Bad Money" by Kevin Phillips. I''ve read lots of what he writes about but not ever put together. It coherently puts all the pieces together in one slim volume. He is a brilliant writer and historian, and his predictions have panned out time and time again.

 

[diamondfan]

Sounds like a must read. I am sure my hubby has read it, and if not I will pick it up.

I know oil issues changed with OPEC but I was at a political event a while back and I recall one of the experts saying that. Of course fossil fuel is dwindling and that is why we must come up with an alternative.

Our nation should be viewed in a better light. It is sad that such a powerful and capable nation is looked down upon by many overseas. We have made great strides in some areas, but think we have really messed things up a great deal as well. I think it is a shame, because we are losing our effectiveness globally.

I still would not live any where else. But safe food, clean water, trying to clean up the environment, making sure people have high quality medical care, can be educated...there are so many things all people want at the end of the day.

The war is a money hemorrhage. It is beyond the pale, but I support our men and want them home as quickly and safely as possible. I would never want another 9/11 but am not if we are really preventing it or if we are kidding ourselves. Safety is something that I take seriously now that we live in the post 9/11 world and I guess I used to take it a bit for granted.

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 4/23/2008 11:07:18 AM
Author: strmrdr
No more or less than if Obama or Hillary win.
none of the 3 are what this country needs in my opinion.
We need a president that can pull the country together.
The only president that managed too do that in my lifetime was President Reagan.

nope, i still know people that swear when they hear his name.......

movie zombie

 

[movie zombie]

mccain is more of the same: http://www.capitolhillblue.com/cont/node/6390

ask and you shall receive if your his friend.....i''m not saying the others don''t do it too; but don''t count on him for any change anytime soon.

movie zombie

 

[miraclesrule]

If you care to educate yourself with an objective analysis of the oil crisis I suggest you rent teh documentary titled "Crude Awakening". It''s easy if you have Netflix. I would assume it is available at other video rental sources. But be prepared for a really Rude, Crude Awakening. It''s a sobering experience, especially for Americans

My daughter also bought me a bought some years ago titled: Beyond Oil : The View From Hubbert''s Peak. I asked her if it was going to get me all fired up and she said "Probably".

Ultimately the book was too scientifically challenging for me to read completely, but it was a great primer for the documentary. Unfortunately for my daughter, it caused me to increase my harping on her about her Ford Explorer, not just because I am a Risk Manager and that vehicle is a safety nightmare, but because SUV''s in general were unnecessary for a single young college kid.

I don''t worry about the Earth. Heck, the earth is self-repairing. It''s the human species that is in serious jeopardy of extinction. Our reliance on a non-renewable source is going to get real ugly, real fast. I challenge any of you to watch that documentary and not get really

.

The only solution and one that still isn''t evident to most Americans, is to bring community back. Farmers markets, telecommuting, alternative mass transportation. The only countries that will be strong, are those who had a solid infrastructure prior to the invention of the automobile. If I don''t see us changing quick enough, I am hauling my family to Italy, while we can still afford to fly in a plane.

 

[miraclesrule]

Sheesh, I forgot what I was going to write before I got sidetracked on oil.
The polarization of American politics. It reminds me of a line out of Jon Stearts book where he says that we get to choose our President from a wide open field of two candidates.

 

[diamondfan]

What about this thought?

Due to the way the Democrats nominate a candidate, we have two people duking it out, getting really nasty and snarky, and spending HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO "WIN". Could end up being nearly a billion. How can it cost THAT much to run for President? Couldn''t there be a better way to do this, and put that money into things that are in jeopardy? AIDS research, the search for better fuel options, housing for the homeless ETC.

I mean, we have two grown people fighting and it is going to be down to the wire I have feeling. You have a polarized party, two people showing a lot of anger and making comments that are not great, and in the end a boatload of money will have been spent, and the Superdelegates may be making the choice. Pretty wasteful.

 

[miraclesrule]

I agree diamond fan. but I don''t like to get into political discussions because I tend not to stop.

One of the most screwed up and adulterated aspects of the American election process was the elimination of the proportional delegate votes. That was not what the founding fathers envisioned when they set out to create our democratic process. There only exists two states in our nation that cast their electoral votes on a proportional share of the popular vote and those states are so small that the votes are meaningless. One would have thought that the controversy over the entire Bush vs. Gore debacle would have demanded revisiting the "winner takes all" electoral votes. The problem is that the "winner takes all" ensures that no viable party will ever exist on a large scale and keeps the two parties, Democrats and Republicans, in power. This is why I feel that the parties are simply two sides of the same screwed up coin. You will never get any one of the representatives to lobby for a change because they would essentially be disowned by their party and then they would lose the support that is so critical to their continuing career in politics. It''s absurb that a candidate could get 36% of a states vote but get all of the states electoral votes. The electoral votes should be proportional so that third party candidates have a chance to win, and not just split a parties vote. Unless and until the populace demands change, it will continue the way it has been. So we continue to be preoccupied with consumerism and celebrity watching so that the powers can continue to exploit our ignorance. It bums me out at times.

The SuperDelegate system that the Democrats created is a travesty of our election system. It the powerful ensuring that their buddies aren''t left out of the game and are rewarded. But I think this year will be different. If the SuperDelegates vote against their constituents, they risk being voted out of office by a challenger. The heat is on.

Proof of the Dems/Reps being two sides of the same coin are the Rep and Dem strategists. I would love nothing more than to see a reality show based on the life of James Carville and his wife, Mary Matalin. I would pay money to watch that.

 

[Odilia]

Date: 4/23/2008 10:50:59 AM
Author:Starset Princess
Does anyone else fear the state of our nation if (when?) the Republican McCain is our next President?

{{{{{{"No more or less than if Obama or Hillary win.
none of the 3 are what this country needs in my opinion."}}}}}}

I totally agree w/ strmrdr; I fear for the state of our nation with any of the 3.

I also agree w/ diamondfan about this: {{"Raising taxes is NOT the answer totally.
The government needs to trim fat. There is money wasted all over the place.

Raising taxes also can impact consumer spending. If you have to spend more for taxes and other necessities, you have less discretionary income to spend on other things. This causes a ripple effects, profits down, layoffs etc."

Plus I agree w/ miraclesrule "Dems/Reps being two sides of the same coin." Speaking of miracles, that is what we need.

 

[movie zombie]

the election process has become a reality show: actually reminds me more of Roller Blade, the movie.

movie zombie

 

[coatimundi_org]

Date: 4/24/2008 1:37:55 PM
Author: movie zombie
the election process has become a reality show: actually reminds me more of Roller Blade, the movie.


movie zombie

 

[movie zombie]

mcbeast is at last 30 years behind the times in his view of women: first, he called his wife the word in public when she dared to tease him about balding, and now this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nancy-watzman/mccain-government-lawsuit_b_98618.html

where has this man been?!

movie zombie

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 4/23/2008 11:20:13 PM
Author: movie zombie

Date: 4/23/2008 11:07:18 AM
Author: strmrdr
No more or less than if Obama or Hillary win.
none of the 3 are what this country needs in my opinion.
We need a president that can pull the country together.
The only president that managed too do that in my lifetime was President Reagan.

nope, i still know people that swear when they hear his name.......

movie zombie

me too, but even those that didn''t like him at all like my Dad respected him.
This is why my Dad hated him:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Air_Traffic_Controllers_Organization_%281968%29

It fit in with everything he did in his Presidency.
They severely misjudged his character.
He would not tolerate getting pushed around.
Not by a union or anyone else including the Soviets.

 

[movie zombie]

one of many good reasons, Storm!

movie zombie

 

[ksinger]

Date: 4/27/2008 12:06:26 PM
Author: movie zombie
mcbeast is at last 30 years behind the times in his view of women: first, he called his wife the <C> word in public when she dared to tease him about balding, and now this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nancy-watzman/mccain-government-lawsuit_b_98618.html

where has this man been?!

movie zombie

Even more bizarre because we already DO get more education than men these days. You read any of the recent articles bemoaning the fact that young women are far outstripping young men in college enrollment AND graduation?

He''s smokin''....

 

[movie zombie]

that''s why i wondered what rock he climbed out from under......

movie zombie

 

[HollyS]

Date: 4/27/2008 12:06:26 PM
Author: movie zombie
mcbeast is at last 30 years behind the times in his view of women: first, he called his wife the <C> word in public when she dared to tease him about balding, and now this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nancy-watzman/mccain-government-lawsuit_b_98618.html

where has this man been?!

movie zombie

He called his wife a WHAT??????

And she didn''t slap him into next week . . . unbelievable. My DH would be scrambling to find all of his teeth; although it would never enter his mind to treat me with such disrespect. Or me, him. Hillary''s looking better all the time. We all know Bill would never dare call her anything ''but late for dinner''.

Oh, and I''m a conservative. On even days. This is an odd day.

 

[HollyS]

Did anyone see the O''Reilly interview of Hillary? I think she more than held her own; and I don''t even like the . . . woman. She seemed relaxed, kinda funny, and didn''t spin the answers (well, maybe just a teensy bit).

Had to laugh though when Dennis Miller referred to her as Pinky Tuscadero.

It was a snide aside, but it did make me chortle.

 

[miraclesrule]

Date: 5/1/2008 7:01:34 PM
Author: HollyS
Did anyone see the O''Reilly interview of Hillary? I think she more than held her own; and I don''t even like the . . . woman. She seemed relaxed, kinda funny, and didn''t spin the answers (well, maybe just a teensy bit).

Had to laugh though when Dennis Miller referred to her as Pinky Tuscadero.

It was a snide aside, but it did make me chortle.

Pinky Tuscadero...that is funny...and I am not normally a fan of Dennis Miller.

It did bother me when I found out that Hillary was on O''Reilly Factor. I thought it reeked of desperation. If Obama wasn''t such a threat, no way does she even consider the thought of going on that show.

Love the post about "anything but "late for dinner"...Ahahahahahaha, too funny.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 5/1/2008 10:50:15 PM
Author: miraclesrule

Date: 5/1/2008 7:01:34 PM

Author: HollyS

Did anyone see the O''Reilly interview of Hillary? I think she more than held her own; and I don''t even like the . . . woman. She seemed relaxed, kinda funny, and didn''t spin the answers (well, maybe just a teensy bit).


Had to laugh though when Dennis Miller referred to her as Pinky Tuscadero.

It was a snide aside, but it did make me chortle.

.

Pinky Tuscadero...that is funny...and I am not normally a fan of Dennis Miller.


It did bother me when I found out that Hillary was on O''Reilly Factor. I thought it reeked of desperation. If Obama wasn''t such a threat, no way does she even consider the thought of going on that show.


Love the post about ''anything but ''late for dinner''...Ahahahahahaha, too funny.

Hillary already met with the "vast right wing conspiracy" you know, the guy that spent millions to prove she had Vince Foster murdered among other things. O''Reilly pales in comparison.

 

[miraclesrule]

The election season is alternately depressing and invigorating. I am inspired by our nation''s youth and the increased participation in our election process. I am also depressed at the thought of letting our youth down. I was never happy being born in between the "them" and the "me" generation and have always believed in the "us" generation. I am sick to death of "war" talk and want to hear some "peace" talk. I went and took a peek at an older thread that discussed the primary and the candidates and remembered how nice it would be to have more than two viable candidates at the general election without feeling like you have to "waste" your vote. Voting between the lesser of two evils is not a comforting choice.

I never really got into Kucinich, but I do know about the bill he introduced into the House in July of 2001, prior to 9/11, that was meant to establish a U.S. Department of Peace and Non-Violence. I read a lot of legislation and to find a bill that can be read in 30 minutes, is a miracle in and of itself.

Violence, whether passive or aggressive is so prevalent in our world... in our cities, in our language. :::heavy sigh:::: It actually makes my heart hurt to discover that yet another group of 13 -year girls are beating each other up and filming it so they can upload it onto YouTube.

It''s sad to see that Peace is getting such a bad rap, as though it is a sign of weakness. The anti-war movement is just as violent as the war movement. There is a difference between a peace movement and an anti-war movement. The latter is a protest and the former a fortest! (Hey, I think I just made up my own word)

Did you know that nearly 80 % of all police calls in our U.S. cities are a result of domestic violence? It is also true that police officers are more at risk when responding to these calls. We have a Military Academy but we don''t have a Peace Academy. Even if armed conflict were necessary, we don''t have a resource to educate our military personnel about the culture and source of conflict that they are about to enter. We call our military personnel "Peacekeepers", but that is not true. They are soldiers and have never been trained in peacekeeping skills. They are trained in strategic armed force. My heart weeps for the "Miracle Marine" and his family. He will be on the news today, and forgotten tommorrow.

I whole heartedly support the establishment of U.S. Department of Peace and Non-Violence. If they don''t want to call it Peace...then call it our Security. So, as we approach Mother''s Day, please reflect on the fact that Mother''s Day was originally intended as a movement to rid the wounds of war...but instead, it turned into a Hallmark Moment.

We have a "War Department", which is really what the Department of Defense is...and was before they changed the name, but no "Peace Department", which is really a lot like a lot of Yang without any Yin. A lot of masculine with no feminine. A lot of families without Moms. So, if we truly do have family values, please think about that on Mother''s Day.

 

[tradergirl]

I think McCain will win easily and that''s a good thing.