Speculation on the Democratic Nominee vs McCain

[FrekeChild]

Miracles-if you don''t mind me asking, what do you do? (If you do mind me asking, tell me to shut my piehole. I promise I won''t be offended!)

 

[miraclesrule]

Date: 5/12/2008 9:17:41 PM
Author: diamondfan
I think, as long as it is not illegal, what consenting adults do is their business. I do not condone and would not tolerate cheating in MY life, but I cannot say what makes people cheat or what makes spouses stay with cheaters, assuming they know it is occurring.

What I HAVE issue with is if an important figure''s dalliances put us in jeopardy. A president with a girlfriend while he is in office is possibly setting himself up for an issue, unless he does not care what will happen if it becomes public. If his affair uses taxpayer money or resources OR diverts him from doing his job, then I think it does become a public thing. Most regular couples are not under this scrutiny if they are cheating on their spouse. Unfortunately, people in the public eye must face different things. And while I may end up disliking a celeb who cheats and decide he or she is a hypocrite, I tend to doubt a celeb having affairs would be problematic to our nation. A President is another story, as time invested in cheating and hiding an affair could certainly be best utilized in another way.

I would generally agree that consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want...but that would mean that the spouse consents as well. I somehow doubt that Hillary Clinton consented to the whole Monica episode, but who knows...maybe she did.

I think that two consenting adults should be free to engage in any kind of kinky activity that floats their boat and I don''t care how much either of them wants to pay for it. But, keeping secrets is evil. Having privacy for adult behavior is significantly different than having to keep secrets because you know what you are doing is wrong. So what if it is illegal? That doesn''t make it morally or socially beneficial.

I think it''s crazy that if I offer one of my "Bumble Bee" pills to my co-worker because she is in excrutiating pain from a sudden onset UTI, I am breaking the law and could be prosecuted. But if a husband squanders 80K of the family finances on a high priced call girl...well, it''s not illegal.

Bah Humbug...

 

[miraclesrule]

I''m a Corporate Risk Manager. It''s a joy, joy, job...

 

[FrekeChild]

Hee hee hee. You sound THRILLED!

 

[miraclesrule]

Date: 5/12/2008 11:32:58 PM
Author: FrekeChild
Hee hee hee. You sound THRILLED!

I am...on paydays.

 

[diamondfan]

Miracles, first, I did say, assuming the spouse KNOWS, which is a big assumption, as I do know couples who knew the other was cheating and still stayed, for a variety of reasons. I cannot imagine a situation where I would stay, knowing that...but have never been in that boat. There could be reasons that make sense to the person staying. I do not like secrets either, and would not roll over for this type of thing, but cannot speak for anyone else. And PS, Monica was NOT the first time he cheated OR faced the music publicly. He was nailed by Gennifer Flowers while he was running and he still won.

Also, Elliot Spitzer broke the law, whether one agrees that prostitution should or should not be illegal. It currently IS, in the US, illegal. The decision of the government NOT to levy charges I do not get, as he broke the law and is a total hypocrite to boot. Is his wife forgiving him and staying? or is she throwing him out? Not sure at this point. But that aside, I usually say something like, if it is not illegal, unethical, immoral or fattening...but in reality, something can be unethical or immoral but legal...so it is a hard call to make when something is clearly unpalatable but not against the law.

Someone''s motives as to why they do or do not do things are interesting and often obscure. I would really have to be in very extenuating circumstances to stay with someone who was cheating on me so blatantly. And my main point was, if two people who are adults want to engage in something, there is not really a legal basis to object upon. I find cheating vile, but that does not mean two adults cannot decide to do it. Some couples have an open marriage...again, something I would never agree to, but some people might. Cheating on a spouse is not illegal, but it is nasty to me to hurt someone that way. I was trying to say that as the President, I feel those indiscretions show a bad character, but that again, there are things in other people''s relationships that we are not privy to, good or bad things...that make judging things more complicated. I would just think that someone running the free world would be better putting his energies into running the country, not having trysts.

 

[miraclesrule]

I know what you meant Diamondfan.

I just wanted to keep the debate alive.

Sometimes I just like to get all riled up and have other people get all riled up with me. For me personally, I just want them only to cheat on me if it benefits me, ala...dang, what''s that movie with Julie Christie that she was nominated for?!?! Oh, "Away From Her" Oh, I loved that movie. Sad, but beautiful.

 

[diamondfan]

M, I will tell you that some women are fine with it but they make hubby pay. Jerry Hall used to get AMAZING bling as apology/make up gifts from Mick when he cheated on her, which, judging from her collection happened A LOT. She knew he dallied and had girlfriends, and she stayed, kept having kids with him...she felt he always came home to her eventually so she would wait it out, get some nice bling and wait til the next time when he strayed again. Her moral code allowed her to tolerate it, his allowed him to keep doing it to her, and the jewelry industry was the winner in all of it.

 

[miraclesrule]

Date: 5/13/2008 12:36:49 AM
Author: diamondfan
M, I will tell you that some women are fine with it but they make hubby pay. Jerry Hall used to get AMAZING bling as apology/make up gifts from Mick when he cheated on her, which, judging from her collection happened A LOT. She knew he dallied and had girlfriends, and she stayed, kept having kids with him...she felt he always came home to her eventually so she would wait it out, get some nice bling and wait til the next time when he strayed again. Her moral code allowed her to tolerate it, his allowed him to keep doing it to her, and the jewelry industry was the winner in all of it.

No joke, Guilt Gifts. Kobe Bryant''s wife is the new poster child!
I''m sure Jerry Hall wasn''t exactly a patron saint. I agree with you, some couples can get over it, but that is probably because they both consent. However, if you get caught publicly, I think it''s foolish to think that you aren''t going to pay the price, not for the indiscretion, but for the lies to cover it up. Personally, I think the witch who tattled on Clinton and Monica was pathetic, and everyone knows it wasn''t the first time Bill played with *toys*. It was a national disgrace that the opposition exploited the situation to the extent that they did. It was the exploitation that was the most damaging and risky to our national security. But still, it''s just stupid to hand someone bullets when they have been pointing a gun at you for years and are just waiting for ammunition. Dumb, dumb, dumb. That is why I just can''t bring myself to support another Clinton in the White House. Although I have to say, I think Hillary is smarter than her husband. But hey, I think most woman are smarter than men.

Heck, everyone knows JFK was getting a little on the side too, but that didn''t effect his inspriational brillance. As far as character goes, for the frontrunners, Obama would probably rank the highest on ethics. Of the non-front runners, I liked what Ron Paul had to say. I had fun watching Bill Richardson, he injected some humor and authenticity into the otherwise stale political debates. Kucinch is a good man, but not presidential...at all. I don''t trust Guiliani, he looked too much like the lying cheater that was dating me when he had a live in girlfriend. I just can''t get past that.

Anyway, I just love that the Obama campaign has energized our youth and increased participation. After all, the people were getting apathetic and even if Hillary works her connections to get the superdelegate nomination, and win the election, I predict she won''t last more than one term. My daughter is a Hillary supporter all the way. I think it''s because I score the same as Hillary on the Keirsey.com personality test. I thought by pointing that out, it would persuade my daughter to jump ship, but dangit if she doesn''t have her own mind.

 

[FrekeChild]

Good for you for raising a daughter that has her own mind, miracles!

 

[FrekeChild]

Super delegate count update:

Clinton: 273
Obama: 277

I think this is the beginning of the end...

 

[diamondfan]

A guilt GIFT is one thing. GIFTS implies MANY times. I think it is weird to keep taking someone back who cannot keep their pants zipped, but...to each his own!

I remember Vanessa's purple diamond. She stayed and I have not heard much more about him cheating...hopefully he learned something.

Cheating does not preclude genius sometimes, BUT I think in this era it is hard to think you can really go for it and not eventually get nailed.

I mentioned in one of my posts about Kennedy. It was legendary, his escapes were known to a few in his circle and NO ONE really talked. Many people claim Jackie knew, and she tried to leave, but as Joe wanted his son to be the first Catholic President, he went to her personally and begged her to stay, offering her a million bucks to do so. This might be part of the myth, who knows, but his exploits are still talked about, how he women being led out the back as Jackie was pulling into the White House. Back then there was a much more hands off approach. Nowdays, the computer makes things sooo easily to dig up. I swear, if you run for President, you are sure they are going to go on a digging mission...and find something, just to do it. Some things are definitely note worthy but most of it is crap.

 

[miraclesrule]

Date: 5/13/2008 1:22:03 AM
Author: FrekeChild
Super delegate count update:

Clinton: 273
Obama: 277

I think this is the beginning of the end...

I hope so, but I read today that they were boosting Obama just before Clinton catches up wtih the next state where she is polling at 40% gain. I have to say it''s been interesting. Many of my rational Republican freinds are Obama converts. Even those of my friends who are rather apolitical have expressed their support of him in the general election. I was surprised by this revelation. I didn''t realize that he has inspired so many people across all political spectrums. It''s refreshing. I would have assumed that most Republicans were as afraid of him as a lot of older democrats. But hey, that''s the impact of fresh, frank and fearful. It can create miracles. Now, I just hope that humanity has risen above the level of violent hatred and that there are no assasinations in the our future.

 

[FrekeChild]

Miracles-all of the super staunch Repubs my parent''s know are declaring support for Obama. So I hear ya!!

 

[diamondfan]

I actually have the opposite, die hard Dem''s who say if he gets it they will vote for McCain. I live in a pretty mixed area, I know just as many Democrats as Republicans.

He basically conceded West Virginia to her, so I heard on the news tonight. Gave a speech and was suddenly, after all the talk to the contrary, wearing a TIE LAPEL PIN. Interesting that he is deciding to now, after he did not wear one and felt it was unimportant. While I agree that merely wearing one does not indicate true patriotism (just as NOT wearing one does not mean you are NOT patriotic)...just think it is noteworthy that it was this source of high discussion and now appears on his suit.

 

[diamondfan]

noticing typos as I am tired, so if my post makes no sense forgive me! I keep skipping a word here and there!

 

[FrekeChild]

No worries Diamondfan. Just out of curiosity, how many hours of sleep do you get every night?

And my parents live in a huge majority of Republican neighborhood. Probably one of the biggest in our city. But the Dems they know (and I know) are totally mixed between Hillary and Obama.

Politics are fascinating.

 

[diamondfan]

TOO LITTLE.

My insomnia is nutty.

I feel torn about the Dems. I am not a fan of his, but not really of her either. But feel mixed because on one hand, she is entitled to still try for it, it ain''t over til it is over, and since neither can win on just pure delegate counts from the primaries, she COULD do it. Not as likely but still, why should she give up? But I also see that it is divisive to the party to have this still undecided. But truly, I blame that on the way the nomination process is set by the Democrats, and why she should bow out if she thinks she has a chance? Just to appease them? Really hard to say.

I have suuuccchhh sleep issues. Hubby snores, and it is terrible. Had mother in law here, she just left, so now I have my ability to sleep in the guest room. Hubby has been snoring a lot as he has a cold, and it has kept me up for days. But normally I would say a good night is 4-5 hours and a bad night 2. Certainly not a lot, and I have to be at the doctor''s at 7:45 am for an EMG. HOW FUN.

 

[FrekeChild]

Aw DF, I feel for you. I used to be an insomniac, going to sleep around 4 and having to wake up at 6 for work. I lived off Red Bulls during the day to keep me away, but when I got home and could actually go to sleep, I couldn''t. Insomnia sucks. Period. Whats funny is now I sleep too much. I don''t get it.

I think the Dem''s system sucks too. I think that Howard Dean should look into changing it somehow, because this election has been a freaking mess.

I''m watching CNN and they''re showing voters in West Virginia...Gosh I''m bored.

 

[FrekeChild]

Clinton won West Virginia. No big surprise there.

Updated super delegate count:
Clinton: 273
Obama: 282

Total delegate counts:
Clinton: 1,713
Obama: 1,881

 

[diamondfan]

I hate these sleep issues.

I do not see why she should bow out, when she did well in W. Virginia, which was known going in. Clearly she reaches certain people and so does he, but there is not as much overlap as the Dems would like or need. They are not far apart on superdelegates. I simply do not get the need for this system. It is bizarre and needlessly draining.

 

[movie zombie]

mccan doesn''t reflect the military re iraq: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-bergmann-and-ilan-goldenberg/petraeus-hearings---more_b_103084.html

movie zombie

 

[MoonWater]

So now McCain finds Hagee offensive

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN2252526620080522

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 5/22/2008 3:23:17 PM
Author: movie zombie
mccan doesn''t reflect the military re iraq: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-bergmann-and-ilan-goldenberg/petraeus-hearings---more_b_103084.html

movie zombie

Interesting! Thanks for posting. McCains chances seem slim, but you never know in this country.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 5/22/2008 5:25:58 PM
Author: MoonWater
So now McCain finds Hagee offensive

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN2252526620080522

Humph. He only just now realizes what a complete whack-job Hagee is? Puh-leeze. Where are his advisors?? Oh yeah, too busy lobbying I ''spect.

I find it offensive every day that the American people are, by and large, applying a litmus test to candidates that is expressly forbidden in the constitution, and blythely calling it "democracy", when in reality it serves to create a de facto state religion. But I suppose it''s easy to be sanguine about such things when you aren''t the one contemplating the real possibility of one day being thrown in jail for not being "whatever" enough.

You ever watch Hagee? He doesn''t need to have anyone dig back to 1990 for hate-filled sermons. They''re on almost every week. And lord, but you should hear his seminars on marriage (I was bored, and it was like watching a trainwreck: you can''t take your eyes away for revolted amazement). When I caught him that time he was up there ranting about women who "let themselves go to pot and get fat" etc, etc. All the while I could only think, "Dude, if you had a two-tone beanie with a propeller, you''d look just like Tweedledee!". Arrogant jerk...

 

[miraclesrule]

Ahahahahaha, Karen, you crack me up!! Great writer too!
It always cracks me up when men attack a womens weight when they are obese. The things that make you go...hmmmmm.

 

[MoonWater]

Heavens to betsy, this is why I prefer Buddhism...http://www.slate.com/id/2192145/ (btw, this is why Bush is so pro-Israel)

 

[ksinger]

Date: 5/23/2008 7:55:22 PM
Author: MoonWater
Heavens to betsy, this is why I prefer Buddhism...http://www.slate.com/id/2192145/ (btw, this is why Bush is so pro-Israel)

Well, all I can say is it''s about dang time that this country started an open discussion of that which shall not be discussed - that our foriegn policy is being heavily influenced by people whose goals are to usher in the end times. For people who don''t believe that way, and for moderate Christians, warnings of such things sound like the rantings of some sort of paranoid delusional, but all you have to do is really listen to the sermons of the Hagees, Parsleys, and Robertsons of the world for more than just a few minutes, and remember that our Theocrat in Chief truly believes that he hears the voice of God himself and is "chosen", and you know....we''re in deeeeep doo doo. And of course, now with YouTube, people outside "the fold" who never would have given a moment to try to catch these guys on TV, can listen anytime and be appalled.

To dismiss this stuff as irrelevant - oh it''s just those TV preachers - is to miss the point. What is truly scary is their rantings can be found any Sunday in local churches nationwide. The casual contempt with which other religions are referred to in our nation''s churches on a weekly basis, is truly scary. I realize I may sometimes sound like a nut to some people, but if you think the way I do, and have lived your whole life in the middle of fundamentalist land, you have a different view of the world in that regard. Unless you want to be proselytized on a daily basis, you learn to keep a low profile. It seems that in the last 20 years, more places have begun to see it too, as fundamentalism has grown.

I''m truly glad that the attitude that religion is sacrosanct and shall not be critically examined in the public square, is going away. It''s time that we began casting a truly critical eye to what these people actually say and calling them on it. It seems that the days of the free ride are over.

" ... even a superstitious man has certain inalienable rights. He has a right to harbor and indulge his imbecilities as long as he pleases, provided only he does not try to inflict them upon other men by force. He has a right to argue for them as eloquently as he can, in season and out of season. He has a right to teach them to his children. But certainly he has no right to be protected against the free criticism of those who do not hold them. He has no right to demand that they be treated as sacred. He has no right to preach them without challenge."

H.L. Menken

 

[FrekeChild]

Freke''s Not So Daily Delegate Count:

2,026 needed to win

Obama
Total: 1,974
Super: 314

Clinton
Total: 1,780
Super: 280

Obama is 52 delegates away from the nomination.
Clinton is 246 delegates away from the nomination.
That is a difference of 194 delegates.

I think she needs some speechwriter to start getting on her withdrawal speech.

 

[FrekeChild]

Freke''s Not So Daily Delegate Count:

2,026 needed to win

Obama
Total: 1,978
Super: 317

Clinton
Total: 1,780
Super: 281

Obama is now 48 delegates away from the nomination.
Clinton is now 246 delegates away from the nomination.
That is a difference of 198 delegates with Obama leading.

(As usual)