Still overwhelmed, need a place to start looking

[Cobra]

Hi everyone,

So I've been sifting through this site for a few days now and I've gone through some threads in these forums, the basic tutorial, and even tried to understand the advanced tutorial. It's definitely a lot of information to handle. When I first started looking for an engagement ring about a month ago, I had no idea that choosing a diamond would be so difficult. There's so many stats and specs aside from the basic 4 Cs. I've been to a few B&M stores (Tiffany, Birks, Mappins, Peoples, Spence) around town (I live around Toronto) and I've always been wary of the salespeople. I just don't feel I have the knowledge to pick out a diamond for the right price. That's when I took to the internet and found this site. Looking around the threads here, I admit I'm still a bit shy posting here as there seems to be a lot of techie talk, but I need your help because I want to find the best possible diamond for my gf and hopefully fiancé.

Sorry for the long intro, but here are my questions:
1. I'm always worried about getting scammed or ripped off because it's a big purchase for something very tiny. What are some reputable B&M stores in my area that I can trust? I'm not averse to buying online either. What are the best online vendors?

2. My budget is around 6000 CAD after tax (13%) for the entire ring. There is leeway if it's worth it. It's kind of a soft budget but I needed to start somewhere. With this budget, can I get a platinum setting with a round brilliant diamond with the following specs:
- Cut: VG+
- Color: I+
- Clarity: SI2+ (eye-clean)
- Carat: 1.0 +/-
My gf wants size and quality so I figure (and according to the tutorial) that it should have these basic specs.

3. Is there anything else that can help point me in the right direction or any other tips?

4. Is there any more information that I can provide to help you help me?

Thank you for your help in advance.

 

[yssie]

Hi everyone,

So I've been sifting through this site for a few days now and I've gone through some threads in these forums, the basic tutorial, and even tried to understand the advanced tutorial. It's definitely a lot of information to handle. When I first started looking for an engagement ring about a month ago, I had no idea that choosing a diamond would be so difficult. There's so many stats and specs aside from the basic 4 Cs. I've been to a few B&M stores (Tiffany, Birks, Mappins, Peoples, Spence) around town (I live around Toronto) and I've always been wary of the salespeople. I just don't feel I have the knowledge to pick out a diamond for the right price. That's when I took to the internet and found this site. Looking around the threads here, I admit I'm still a bit shy posting here as there seems to be a lot of techie talk, but I need your help because I want to find the best possible diamond for my gf and hopefully fiancé.

Sorry for the long intro, but here are my questions:
1. I'm always worried about getting scammed or ripped off because it's a big purchase for something very tiny. What are some reputable B&M stores in my area that I can trust? I'm not averse to buying online either. What are the best online vendors?

2. My budget is around 6000 CAD after tax (13%) for the entire ring. There is leeway if it's worth it. It's kind of a soft budget but I needed to start somewhere. With this budget, can I get a platinum setting with a round brilliant diamond with the following specs:
- Cut: VG+
- Color: I+
- Clarity: SI2+ (eye-clean)
- Carat: 1.0 +/-
My gf wants size and quality so I figure (and according to the tutorial) that it should have these basic specs.

3. Is there anything else that can help point me in the right direction or any other tips?

4. Is there any more information that I can provide to help you help me?

Thank you for your help in advance.

Hi cobra - you came to the right place

1. There are many people from canada who post regularly, someone will see this and be able to help you with local jewellers/taxes/etc. I know many PS vendors will work with out-of-country customers.. does your budget include import duties and such?

2. Well-cut RBs are many, you can start your search by plugging in your parametres in the "diamond search" under "Resources" at the top of the page, should give you some idea of what you can expect to pay. If you're looking for a hearts and arrows stone you can expect to pay a premium, but choosing a branded stone is an easy way to ensure a nice performer and they come with perks like lifetime upgrades that non-branded stones may or may not have. I personally do not feel H&A is worth the premium IF you are prepared to take your time and do some legwork, or you prefer a different set of parametres from that which H&A are generally cut to, but it is important to many people.

3. off the top of my head I'm thinking
www.whiteflash.com
www.goodoldgold.com
www.highperformancediamonds.com
www.briangavindiamonds.com
if you want an easy-find H&A or GOG "modern antique" designed to optimize light performance
www.jamesallen.com,,,,, www.idjewelryonline.com,,,,, www.niceice.com usually have good pricepoints but you have to do some searching
www.diamondsbylauren.com if you're looking for something a little different

I think your parametres of I SI are a great balance between a clean white stone and budget, some prefer to go higher in colour and clarity and some lower depending on sensitivity - I strongly advise looking at some well cut stones in your size range in person, see what *your* preferences are

4. When you do find stones you can use the HCA to help you weed when an IS is unavailable: https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

 

[tyty333]

A few on-line diamonds that might be worth taking a look at...
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2531871.htm
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-104045953023 (may fit in soft budget)
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-1040399230041 (same)
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1324923.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1218732.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1307898.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1334575.asp (looks like a good buy to me if eye-clean)

All SI1s would have to be checked for eye-clean (ask vendor). Ask for idealscope image of any jamesallen diamonds that
you are seriously interested in.

Post any diamonds that you are interested in for further scrunity .

 

[antelope1]

If she wants quality, I would up your parameters a bit. For a RB, I'd recommend:

Cut: Excellent-Ideal (this really matters for sparkle + fire + brightness, etc)
Color: H (not worth paying for G, and an I may appear warm from the side, since she likes quality, I'd shoot for H)
Clarity: SI1 or VS2 (not worth paying for VS1 or better because you can't tell it is clearer to the naked eye, and SI2 has a big range -- with more likely to be not eye clean than eye clean; by sticking to SI1, you're more likely to find an eye clean diamond)

Carat: Whatever you can afford after the other parameters above. Note that there is a cliff at 1.0 ct. So if you buy a 1.01 ct diamond, you're going to pay more than a 0.99 ct diamond (not just because the diamond is larger) because the wholesale price per carat is higher. I'd actually shoot for the 0.9-0.95 ct range because it looks almost as big surface-area wise as a 1ct and you'd pay a lot less because it's not close to the cliff.

You should be aware that when you go into B&M stores, they've spent a lot on lighting that makes frozen spit look fantastic. I'd insist on taking the diamond over to other light sources for examination. If they won't let you close to the window, I would ask for office lighting in the back (like flourescent overhead or an incandescent desk lamp). You're most likely to see leakage (you'll be able to see your skin tone behind the diamond) in direct sunlight, so get window light if you can.

 

[Lucy2]

I would say that cut is the most important thing, as this will have the biggest effect on sparkle-factor.

I am sure most people on here would agree that the best deals are online. I think you can get much more bang for your buck online than through B&M stores. The above links that people gave you are great, trusted retailers (whiteflash, Brian Gavin, Good Old Gold etc). If you contact a retailer they will be able to help you find some options.

 

[yssie]

If she wants quality, I would up your parameters a bit. For a RB, I'd recommend:

Cut: Excellent-Ideal (this really matters for sparkle + fire + brightness, etc)
Color: H (not worth paying for G, and an I may appear warm from the side, since she likes quality, I'd shoot for H)
Clarity: SI1 or VS2 (not worth paying for VS1 or better because you can't tell it is clearer to the naked eye, and SI2 has a big range -- with more likely to be not eye clean than eye clean; by sticking to SI1, you're more likely to find an eye clean diamond)

Carat: Whatever you can afford after the other parameters above. Note that there is a cliff at 1.0 ct. So if you buy a 1.01 ct diamond, you're going to pay more than a 0.99 ct diamond (not just because the diamond is larger) because the wholesale price per carat is higher. I'd actually shoot for the 0.9-0.95 ct range because it looks almost as big surface-area wise as a 1ct and you'd pay a lot less because it's not close to the cliff.

You should be aware that when you go into B&M stores, they've spent a lot on lighting that makes frozen spit look fantastic. I'd insist on taking the diamond over to other light sources for examination. If they won't let you close to the window, I would ask for office lighting in the back (like flourescent overhead or an incandescent desk lamp). You're most likely to see leakage (you'll be able to see your skin tone behind the diamond) in direct sunlight, so get window light if you can.

Antelope I disagree w/ some of what you wrote
1. The "right" VG (remember, not all AGS ideal proportions fall into GIA's EX range and vice versa) or an AGS1 dinged for sym/pol is a fantastic way to save on the slight premium that the highest cut grades command
2. Colour depends very much on OP's and OP's intended's vision and stone size - I agree that a 1ct H is likely to look very white from all angles to most casual observers unless put next to a colourless stone, but OP may or may not be "most"
3. Clarity - not hard to find an SI2 in this size that's eyeclean by standards most vendors use

carat/lighting - ditto antelope, be sure to check the stone in various lighting types

 

[IceExplorer]

I strongly advise looking at some well cut stones in your size range in person, see what *your* preferences are

This is GREAT advice. You can research online for hours and days. It's important to train your eyes.

Get into as many B&Ms as you can. Look at multiple colors beside each other and separately. Do the same with cut and clarity.

Also, be sure to keep a list of stats and what they are charging.

Good luck with your search. I'm sure you'll find the people on the forum to be extremely informative and helpful!

 

[Cobra]

Wow! Thank you so much for your replies

You guys are certainly quick to answer the bell. I appreciate it. To Yssie, the $6000 budget includes all taxes, import duties, shipping, etc. Again, it's not a hard budget as I don't mind exceeding it a bit if it's worth it. But that would be the number I'm looking at to start.

I will go through all of the links posted and will take my gf to the B&M stores again to see what she thinks about colour and clarity. I think clarity-wise, she'll just want an eye clean stone. No one will take a loupe to a friend's engagement ring...right? I would assume that it's more size and sparkle factor that she prizes.

In any case, thank you all again for the quick responses. I will post updates throughout my selection process.

 

[Cobra]

Sorry almost forgot one more thing. I don't know if anyone would know this but would it be beneficial for me to open a US savings account at my bank and then buy some USD so that I can buy from the US online merchants? Or is it similar to me using my Mastercard at 2.5% conversion fee?

I know the bank will take a cut out when I buy the USD. Will my Mastercard convert USD with the cut AND the extra 2.5% or is 2.5% part of the cut? Just wondering if anyone has experience with this.

 

[audball]

I think you're parameters to start are good, the only thing I'd "up" is cut to Excellent-Ideal. If I've learned ANYTHING in my time on PS, it's that CUT is KING. She wants performance? She wants Ideal.

 

[MarkBroumand]

Sorry almost forgot one more thing. I don't know if anyone would know this but would it be beneficial for me to open a US savings account at my bank and then buy some USD so that I can buy from the US online merchants? Or is it similar to me using my Mastercard at 2.5% conversion fee?

I know the bank will take a cut out when I buy the USD. Will my Mastercard convert USD with the cut AND the extra 2.5% or is 2.5% part of the cut? Just wondering if anyone has experience with this.

I'm not sure about the MC fees, but I think the fees would be more reasonable if you were to use paypal or do a wire transfer.

 

[Cobra]

So I just started looking through some of the sites and I found these two:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-104047963005
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-104047963007

What do you guys think? How are the prices? Is a $400 difference between SI1 and VS2 normal? I also find the premium for the magic weight to be quite steep (~$500). Is there a big noticeable difference between 0.92 and 1 carat?

 

[antelope1]

Only a $400 difference? That seems pretty reasonable. There might be other differences (say in the cut, which I didn't look at closely) that play into the price difference too (e.g., if the SI1 is better cut than the VS2).

IMO, over 6mm, you're doing just fine with a RB. If you're going to go from 6.2mm diameter to 6.7mm diameter (would require a lot more than 0.08 ct to get there), then you'd notice the difference in size right off the bat. But I don't think a difference of 0.1mm (which is what you're looking at with a 0.08 ct increase) is going to be readily apparent to the naked eye.

I wouldn't punk to go over 1ct myself (but I am a girl, and remodeling my condo, so ... different priorities right now).

 

[Marley]

Hey Cobra... I saw your post and thought I might be able to lend a hand and offer a little advice.

I was in a similar position to you about a month ago and found a great deal of help from the wonderful members on pricescope. I'm also Canadian (in Toronto) and found that going to B&M stores just wasn't doing it for me. On one hand I found that I wasn't really sure what I was getting and on the other hand I found I was being pressured by a salesperson (I can't stand being pressured with any decision, let alone one of this magnitude). I also thought the prices seemed very high (particularly at Spence who advertise that they offer better diamonds at a better price). After doing a quick price comparsion between the online vendors and the prices in stores, there was no contest. I figured if I spent the same amount online, I'd be able to get a much better diamond/setting, than I would be able to in store for the same $$'s. I decided online was the way I was going to go (I knew my g/f wasn't concerned with where the ring came from...so I actually showed her some of the sites to look at so I could get an idea of what she liked for settings). I started looking at Blue Nile as they seemed to be the biggest online vendor...then I found James Allen (I found pricescope after, so I wasn't aware of how many quality vendors there really are). What I really liked about James Allen was the virtual loupe they have which lets you see the actual stone you're considering.

I've pasted my original thread below. I wound up buying the first diamond I posted, along with a platinum setting from James Allen. All in, it came to just under $4900 USD. When they shipped it, I was contacted by Fed Ex on the Canadian side in Mississauga - I had to pay them $11 to act as a broker to clear the ring through customs. The cost to import it was 13% because the ring is made in the USA (part of the NAFTA agreement). After the Fed Ex charge and the 13%, it cost an extra $650. So with the Canadian dollar basically the same as the US dollar right now... not paying tax online when you buy it, and then being charged 13% to import it, it's basically the same as buying a ring in Canada - only for a lot less.

One thing I wasn't sure of when I was making my final decision was colour. I got so many mixed opinions from people regarding colour and yes, a lot boils down to personal preference. But I found that an "I" colour was plenty white enough and I do not have any second thoughts about my choice.

The ring arrived a few weeks ago and I was VERY impressed...I haven't proposed yet...likely in the coming days.

Here's the link so you can get an idea of the specs I decided on (0.90, I colour, GIA triple Ex; platinum setting) that came to a final price of approximately $5700 CDN. I could have gone a little bigger and sacrificed clarity or cut, but I think the key is to find a balance that works for you (and your budget).

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/diamond-on-hold-for-24-hours-your-thoughts-please.150654/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/diamond-on-hold-for-24-hours-your-thoughts-please.150654/[/URL]

 

[Cobra]

So I was looking at WF and I found some potential diamonds from their Virtual Stock. To bring them to their facility to examine further (Idealscope, ASET, etc.), they need my credit card info and billing address. I'm ok with giving out an address but I'm a bit wary about giving the credit card unless I'm making the purchase. Any suggestions?

Also, how does virtual stock work? It sounds like that means the vendor doesn't own the diamond. Do all vendors draw from the same stock in that case? If I started posting diamonds on here for your opinions, what are the chances that someone else buys my diamond first?

Hope you guys can alleviate some of my fears. Thanks.

 

[Cobra]

Ok, I think it's time check in to see if I'm doing ok picking out the good diamonds. What do you think of these two?

0.92ct, I, SI1, 6.24x6.30x3.81, 1.4 TIC, GIA 2121524191 - $3539
0.90ct, I, VS2, 6.23x6.20x3.76, 0.9 TIC, GIA 2121248898 - $3290

The second one was rated VG for the cut rating even though it's 0.9 on HCA. I guess there's no relation between the two? What I don't know is how to judge the proportions based on the measurements. Does 6.24x6.30 mean that it's not really round? Is rounder better? To me, the stats seem to indicate that the second one is better even though it's $250 cheaper. Having said that, are these even good diamonds to begin with?

Any pointers or suggestions would help keep me from straying off the right track. Thanks so much!

 

[yssie]

yes, vendors draw from basically the same listings. when you post the cert, crop out the listed cert#, exact ct wt, and colour/clarity unless you have questions about them - can still post the clarity plot, proportions plot, "additional grading information" section.


It is quite normal to ask for your info before having a stone shipped in - makes sense, they want something by which to find/charge you for the return shipping if you have the stone brought in and they never hear from you again

Ok, I think it's time check in to see if I'm doing ok picking out the good diamonds. What do you think of these two?

0.92ct, I, SI1, 6.24x6.30x3.81, 1.4 TIC, GIA 2121524191 - $3539
0.90ct, I, VS2, 6.23x6.20x3.76, 0.9 TIC, GIA 2121248898 - $3290

The second one was rated VG for the cut rating even though it's 0.9 on HCA. I guess there's no relation between the two? What I don't know is how to judge the proportions based on the measurements. Does 6.24x6.30 mean that it's not really round? Is rounder better? To me, the stats seem to indicate that the second one is better even though it's $250 cheaper. Having said that, are these even good diamonds to begin with?

Any pointers or suggestions would help keep me from straying off the right track. Thanks so much!

niether of those stones can be considered 'out of round', not to worry, but I would be concerned about obstruction in that second stone - pav angle is very shallow. HCA/the labs do not create ranges of 'best' based on each other - there is overlap but there are also proportion combinations that are present in one system's top grade but not the others'..

 

[Dreamer_D]

You have been covered re: cut by Yssie, but wanted to second the assurance that you should not worry about giving your cc for calling in stones -- but know if you decide not to buy a stone they call in that they deem acceptable by their standards, then you will be billed for the return shipping of the item. This is part of the cost of buying virtual stones over stones that are in house. You can't be a looky-loo

 

[Cobra]

Ok, I think it's time check in to see if I'm doing ok picking out the good diamonds. What do you think of these two?

0.92ct, I, SI1, 6.24x6.30x3.81, 1.4 TIC, GIA 2121524191 - $3539
0.90ct, I, VS2, 6.23x6.20x3.76, 0.9 TIC, GIA 2121248898 - $3290

The second one was rated VG for the cut rating even though it's 0.9 on HCA. I guess there's no relation between the two? What I don't know is how to judge the proportions based on the measurements. Does 6.24x6.30 mean that it's not really round? Is rounder better? To me, the stats seem to indicate that the second one is better even though it's $250 cheaper. Having said that, are these even good diamonds to begin with?

Any pointers or suggestions would help keep me from straying off the right track. Thanks so much!

So is the first stone worth having WF bring in? Is it a good buy? I don't want to be charged if I don't end up wanting it. With the setting I want from them, the complete ring with that stone would cost roughly $5500 CAD after taxes and foreign exchange.

I looked at James Allen and they seem to have cheaper diamond prices in general, plus their settings seem to be nicer. Does that mean they probably have worse cut diamonds or do they just have a lower markup?

Here's another stone: http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Premium-Cut-Round-Diamond-1262067.asp

How am I doing with picking out potential stones? I'm pretty much looking at the 4Cs and HCA exclusively to whittle down my choices. Aside from Idealscope images, is there anything else that I can or should consider when narrowing down my selections even more?

 

[stone-cold11]

Ok, I think it's time check in to see if I'm doing ok picking out the good diamonds. What do you think of these two?

0.92ct, I, SI1, 6.24x6.30x3.81, 1.4 TIC, GIA 2121524191 - $3539
0.90ct, I, VS2, 6.23x6.20x3.76, 0.9 TIC, GIA 2121248898 - $3290

The second one was rated VG for the cut rating even though it's 0.9 on HCA. I guess there's no relation between the two? What I don't know is how to judge the proportions based on the measurements. Does 6.24x6.30 mean that it's not really round? Is rounder better? To me, the stats seem to indicate that the second one is better even though it's $250 cheaper. Having said that, are these even good diamonds to begin with?

Any pointers or suggestions would help keep me from straying off the right track. Thanks so much!

So is the first stone worth having WF bring in? Is it a good buy? I don't want to be charged if I don't end up wanting it. With the setting I want from them, the complete ring with that stone would cost roughly $5500 CAD after taxes and foreign exchange.

I looked at James Allen and they seem to have cheaper diamond prices in general, plus their settings seem to be nicer. Does that mean they probably have worse cut diamonds or do they just have a lower markup?

Here's another stone: http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Premium-Cut-Round-Diamond-1262067.asp

How am I doing with picking out potential stones? I'm pretty much looking at the 4Cs and HCA exclusively to whittle down my choices. Aside from Idealscope images, is there anything else that I can or should consider when narrowing down my selections even more?

JA are cheaper because their upgrade policies are more strigent than WF.

That JA stone is not a good candidate, notice the thick girdle? That is hidden weight which will mean a small diameter that similar weight but well cut stone, this being a 6.1mm instead of a 6.2-6.3mm stone and you are paying for the weight. There is a jump in $/carat at the 0.9c mark. For a 6.1mm stone, you could probably get a 0.85mm stone.

In picking stone, also look at the girdles, for the reason I stated above. Also check the lower half/lower girdle facet size, most prefer that to be 75-80%, smaller the number the thicker the arrows look.