Strong Windowing in Emerald Cut, Engagement planned for next week...Help

[Joseph Herrera]

Ok ... I have some skin in the game bc everyone likes it when someone chooses their pick. But the stone on Ritani is marked as SOLD even though it's still up on Adiamor and Loose Grown. I suspect that someone purchased it through the Ritani site.

I fully understand that $4k is a lot to spend on something you're not sure of. I vote using a CZ and seeing what PSers can find for you. Although it's time consuming, it's not impossible to find a nice EC. There's another thread going on right not (although she's looking at 7-8ct), so a lot of great EC knowledge is going around right now.

Hahahha I didn't realize people get so into their diamonds picks! That's cool to know.

Also, what exactly is a CZ in the diamond world?

 

[Joseph Herrera]

I love the stone John found. I feel like it's a world better, but the price difference is a lot.

Yes I agree, the other thing is, we are lucky in that we can afford it and it not make a difference to us.

But I grew up broke so $1500 is still $1500 to me hahaha.

I think I also just really want to have the diamond when I do the proposal, and i'll be leaving this coming Friday, so the clock might have expired on finding a goldilocks rock. Will need to see what I decide today.

 

[Joseph Herrera]

If this is an issue of the second stone being too expensive for comfort, then absolutely send it back and try to find something smaller withing budget that is as well cut.

But your assumption that you gf “won’t know the difference” is interesting. I feel like most people recognize a truly well cut diamond especially when they wear it every day. People comment all the time on how sparkly my engagement diamond is. They see it is better than other diamonds. I think it’s worth having a better cut diamond.

How about letting her pick instead of making the decision for her.

Perhaps won't know the difference is the wrong way to put it but it's good to know that people can actually pick up on the difference between a well cut and an ok cut diamond.

This is making me feel better about the purchase.

And hahahaha letting her pick really would solve my problem! But then it won't be a surprise.

Perhaps I'll keep the diamond from John, not set it, and then let her know we can potentially return it and find another.

 

[Joseph Herrera]

I would take both stones outside into the sunlight, shade, car, to dinner, wherever you normally go. If you don't love them, if you don't say to yourself " that's a very nice diamond" return them.
Here's a whiteflash stone. Take a look https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-dream-ec-from-whiteflash.244807/

Is Whiteflash known for really high quality cuts? I checked their website and seems like their stones are similar prices to John's.

 

[0515vision]

Also, what exactly is a CZ in the diamond world?

I thought you were willing to use a cubic zirconia stand-in ring in case you didn’t find something you’re at peace with. That’s a great option. You’re pretty close to finding Goldilocks.

Whiteflash is great, but you still have to sort through all the stones.

Do you like any of the ones @joe2 or I picked? Are you waiting to hear from others?

 

[0515vision]

You might like this one from Whiteflash. 2.56 Precision Cut $2888.

Diamond | 2.56 ct F VS1 Emerald Cut Precision Lab Grown Diamond GIA Certified | 320061

This fabulous 2.56 carat Emerald None cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS1 and color grade of F.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 320061

www.whiteflash.com

 

[0515vision]

Loupe360

loupe360.com

Media Links

wish that one rotated vertically, it may be nice

Loupe360

loupe360.com

I'm not mad at the top stone. And to be honest, we can't see the crystal in detail on Jonathan's stone. Minor crystal issues might not be a dealbreaker.

 

[Joseph Herrera]

I thought you were willing to use a cubic zirconia stand-in ring in case you didn’t find something you’re at peace with. That’s a great option. You’re pretty close to finding Goldilocks.

Whiteflash is great, but you still have to sort through all the stones.

Do you like any of the ones @joe2 or I picked? Are you waiting to hear from others?

Yes a cubic zirconia will be in the ring but still would prefer to have A/The actual diamond with me.

To be honest I'm quite conflicted. Part of me wants to keep the stone because I know its an amazing cut, and it seems like any labs known for cutting this well are going to have similar prices if not more.

So I have the option of looking for another stone online with the help of all you wonderful people but I might end up getting a dud. Maybe I might just pay Jonathan directly to help me find a good stone in the middle ground.

So I guess best case scenario is I end up with a stone that has similar performance for about $1k less?

 

[Joseph Herrera]

You might like this one from Whiteflash. 2.56 Precision Cut $2888.

Diamond | 2.56 ct F VS1 Emerald Cut Precision Lab Grown Diamond GIA Certified | 320061

This fabulous 2.56 carat Emerald None cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS1 and color grade of F.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 320061

www.whiteflash.com

Yeah this looks great but a little on the small side, I think there stuff is priced fairly similar to Jonathan's stuff

 

[0515vision]

Yeah, I knew it was a little on the small side. And of course, it would be better to have the stone in hand instead of a temp ring.

Maybe @musicloveranthony could take a look at some of the recent ones @joe2 and I selected? I really believe there's a solid stone out there. Everyone gushed about that 3ct stone that someone else snagged, so there are definitely live fish in the sea!

 

[Joseph Herrera]

This is a great point, if we can get some more opinions on this one I would order it now and then compare it to the one from Jonathan:

I really like the pattern it has going on - very lively.

I'm thinking for half the price of the one from Jonathan, if it's similar performance it would be a great deal.

Inventory

Shop your perfect lab grown diamond from thousands of ethically sourced certified lab created diamonds inventory.

www.loosegrowndiamond.com

 

[0515vision]

This is a great point, if we can get some more opinions on this one I would order it now and then compare it to the one from Jonathan:

I really like the pattern it has going on - very lively.

I'm thinking for half the price of the one from Jonathan, if it's similar performance it would be a great deal.

Inventory

Shop your perfect lab grown diamond from thousands of ethically sourced certified lab created diamonds inventory.

www.loosegrowndiamond.com

The link isn’t giving the exact diamond. If you copy the SKU# and put it in the search bar, it will pull up just that single stone.

 

[Joseph Herrera]

Gotcha, this is the loupe link: https://loupe360.com/diamond/3485150500/video/500/500

Also update I just emailed jonathan so hopefully I can have us review stones here and then he can check them out with his equipment before I make a final decision and ideally he can get commission + whatever fees he charges for concierge.

Curious if you all like any of the 2.7-3.1 EC's he has on his website?

Distinctive Gem Inc.

www.distinctivegem.com

 

[Dreamer_D]

To be frank, it is very difficult to buy a fancy cut like emerald on your own. You need many videos in different lighting or ideally advanced imaging to assess cut quality. It could take many attempts, even with our help, to find a winner. And you are likely correct that the cutting houses making truly precision stones are not typically selling to the drop shippers. Engaging a professional to help is the way to go. Asking Jon to find a stone that is more reasonable priced is one way to go. Another, if it is affordable, is to value the time the vendor spent and the added quality of cut — which you will appreciate over time as you go to different lighting as see your stone flashing and looking fantastic while every else’s diamonds look lifeless. There isn’t really much concrete value in diamonds. There is a large portion of personal preference. It is a choice to find value in cut and service and lapidary skill. You can make that choice.

 

[0515vision]

Gotcha, this is the loupe link: https://loupe360.com/diamond/3485150500/video/500/500

Also update I just emailed jonathan so hopefully I can have us review stones here and then he can check them out with his equipment before I make a final decision and ideally he can get commission + whatever fees he charges for concierge.

Curious if you all like any of the 2.7-3.1 EC's he has on his website?

Distinctive Gem Inc.

www.distinctivegem.com

I’m not crazy about how this faces up on the en face view. But again - that’s just me.

Out of curiosity, what’s the GIA number on Jonathan’s pick? I’d love to see the magnified video if we can find it.

 

[Joseph Herrera]

Hey Dreamer_D,

thank you for the detailed reply.

I completely understand where you're coming from and you're starting to make me appreciate the stone I have now a bit more. There is a part of me that is leaning towards just keeping it but I will see what Jon has to say (like I mentioned before it really is mesmerizing to look at)

Appreciate the advice!

 

[Joseph Herrera]

I’m not crazy about how this faces up on the en face view. But again - that’s just me.

Out of curiosity, what’s the GIA number on Jonathan’s pick? I’d love to see the magnified video if we can find it.

GIA number is: 5234119059

https://www.stonealgo.com/diamond-details/GIA-number-LG5234119059

 

[Karl_K]

https://www.stonealgo.com/diamond-details/GIA-number-LG5234119059

igi LG602399405

 

[Dreamer_D]

I also understand the thrill of the hunt and searching for a “deal”. But time is money, including your own. Just suggesting that “overpriced” vs “deal” and all those labels are more complex than just comparing the end dollar amount. Happy hunting!

 

[Joseph Herrera]

I also understand the thrill of the hunt and searching for a “deal”. But time is money, including your own. Just suggesting that “overpriced” vs “deal” and all those labels are more complex than just comparing the end dollar amount. Happy hunting!

I think you are very right on the amount of effort it will take to (1) find rings online with potential (2) vet them with an expert and (3) actually find one that can compare with a well cut stone is going to be difficult.

At the end of the day, this is the only thing from a wedding that gets to be used regularly so probably best I spend the money here.

 

[lovedogs]

I think you are very right on the amount of effort it will take to (1) find rings online with potential (2) vet them with an expert and (3) actually find one that can compare with a well cut stone is going to be difficult.

At the end of the day, this is the only thing from a wedding that gets to be used regularly so probably best I spend the money here.

Yup, I agree this is where you should be spending money.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I mean you are asking a bunch of diamond obsessed people here, so the answer is going to be biased, but I also agree that spending a little more on the engagement diamond is absolutely worth it.

I know I am not alone in saying that when I wear my diamond rings I look at them alllllll day long. I enjoy their pastels under trees, their bright whiteness on cloudy days, their bold flashes of white chunky light in the grocery store, their colorful fire. And these optical properties exist, and my enjoyment exists, because I selected very well cut diamonds for their type. It is a gift that keeps on giving day after day. Many women wear diamonds. Very few wear exquisitely cut diamonds. It is unique and special to wear such jewels.

Just keep them clean lol.

 

[Joseph Herrera]

Hey folks, over the last few days I have been wondering about a couple of things and wondering if anyone know more about it. As a business strategy consultant, this is where my mind naturally wonders.

(1) These "high quality cutters", where are they typically based e.g. NYC vs India, and why don't they work with traditional aggregators? e.g. James Allen, Blue Nile
(2) Are natural diamonds typically cut to much higher quality than lab grown diamonds due to the price differential? e.g. a 2.0 CT Lab grown diamond that costs $1000, having it cut by someone who is top notch might double or even triple the price; however, for a 2.0 CT earth diamond that cost $15k, you might as well spend another $2-3k to have it be cut immaculately.
(3) How many of the diamonds on the market are coming from firms that are top notch cutters e.g. people that white flash and or Jon work with?
(4) Do y'all think that as time goes on technology will allow us to cut diamonds better for less? Or was an immaculately cut diamond 20 years ago still an immaculately cut diamond today?

 

[Joseph Herrera]

I mean you are asking a bunch of diamond obsessed people here, so the answer is going to be biased, but I also agree that spending a little more on the engagement diamond is absolutely worth it.

I know I am not alone in saying that when I wear my diamond rings I look at them alllllll day long. I enjoy their pastels under trees, their bright whiteness on cloudy days, their bold flashes of white chunky light in the grocery store, their colorful fire. And these optical properties exist, and my enjoyment exists, because I selected very well cut diamonds for their type. It is a gift that keeps on giving day after day. Many women wear diamonds. Very few wear exquisitely cut diamonds. It is unique and special to wear such jewels.

Just keep them clean lol.

hahaha your quote at the end has convinced me to keep it

 

[Dreamer_D]

(1) These "high quality cutters", where are they typically based e.g. NYC vs India, and why don't they work with traditional aggregators? e.g. James Allen, Blue Nile

I don’t know the answer to this but @Karl_K might? I assume that better cut diamonds are not mass produced because they require more rough and more time and skilll to produce, while the push to save rough is not as strong with labs, the cost of labour does matter. And most people don’t understand that cut is not just the shape of the diamond, nor do they understand it is the most important factor in diamond beauty. So demand is not strong.

(2) Are natural diamonds typically cut to much higher quality than lab grown diamonds due to the price differential? e.g. a 2.0 CT Lab grown diamond that costs $1000, having it cut by someone who is top notch might double or even triple the price; however, for a 2.0 CT earth diamond that cost $15k, you might as well spend another $2-3k to have it be cut immaculately.

The issue is the rarity of very high quality rough and the waste produced by cutting a nicer diamond most of the time, which actually used to create a huge mass market for very very ugly natural diamonds. Gary Holloway has been waxing poetic that the market for “frozen spit” natural diamond may dry up as well cut labs permeate the market. Good riddance. This is to say that well cut natural diamonds can be harder to find than well cut labs at times. Plus, as I said before, most people do not understand and the vendors are not motivated to educate about the importance of diamond cut. Pricescope is a rarified population of people who covet extremely well cut, rare diamonds.

(3) How many of the diamonds on the market are coming from firms that are top notch cutters e.g. people that white flash and or Jon work with?

Very very very few. @Karl_K may know details. The diamond you have is incredibly rare even among lab diamonds, where the volume of gems in the market is virtually limitless (theoretically).

(4) Do y'all think that as time goes on technology will allow us to cut diamonds better for less? Or was an immaculately cut diamond 20 years ago still an immaculately cut diamond today?

Cutters and connoisseurs have been perfecting diamond cut for centuries. I own antique diamonds and love the history of this art form. Yet truly well cut diamonds remain rare even across history. Again it comes down to the rough and the losses created by chasing perfection, and the lack of demand for said perfection.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

 

[Karl_K]

Answers not in order:
4.. Modern tooling and processes makes entry level PS definition super-ideals Rounds much much easier to cut then the old days. Even steep deeps will often be well executed just cut to angles for weight retention.
There are cutters using that to cheat on the GIA and even AGS grading systems.

However cutting step cuts remains more of an art.
Many of them are not well cut because the cutter either had bad models or could not properly execute good models or got greedy.
There are far fewer companies capable of cutting high end step cuts than there are capable of cutting well cut rounds.
The well cut ones that make the list are usually the result of a cutter hits on a decent model and the stars align and that stone was well executed.

3) very few(some have a fine make line and a regular line so have more stones on the market) and they are not generally step cut cutters so it does not help us here.

2) The gross profit for the cutter may only be 10% with 20% considered to be good on mined diamonds.
That percentage is much higher on LGD.
However in some cases its probably barely covering expenses.
However the improved process and tools along with more automation keeps the quality up and the amount produced high.
This over stock is driving prices down on LGD and will put some of them out of business.

1) NYC cutters are mostly doing repairs and recuts these days the amount of stones cut from rough is tiny.
The best step cut cutters are often cut to order from commercial customers and designers.
They are in Israel, India and Antwerp may have a few left.

It would take a book to list all the details but that's a fairly decent overview.

 

[Lemonlime]

Hahahha I didn't realize people get so into their diamonds picks! That's cool to know.

Also, what exactly is a CZ in the diamond world?

@Joseph Herrera Hey friend! I'm the other PSer hunting for a well cut lab EC, just came here to wish you the best of luck! Your future fiancée is so lucky to have someone so dedicated to the hunt! The questions you raised earlier today resonated with me quite a bit, I work in the business strategy arena too lol

 

[Joseph Herrera]

I don’t know the answer to this but @Karl_K might? I assume that better cut diamonds are not mass produced because they require more rough and more time and skilll to produce, while the push to save rough is not as strong with labs, the cost of labour does matter. And most people don’t understand that cut is not just the shape of the diamond, nor do they understand it is the most important factor in diamond beauty. So demand is not strong.


The issue is the rarity of very high quality rough and the waste produced by cutting a nicer diamond most of the time, which actually used to create a huge mass market for very very ugly natural diamonds. Gary Holloway has been waxing poetic that the market for “frozen spit” natural diamond may dry up as well cut labs permeate the market. Good riddance. This is to say that well cut natural diamonds can be harder to find than well cut labs at times. Plus, as I said before, most people do not understand and the vendors are not motivated to educate about the importance of diamond cut. Pricescope is a rarified population of people who covet extremely well cut, rare diamonds.


Very very very few. @Karl_K may know details. The diamond you have is incredibly rare even among lab diamonds, where the volume of gems in the market is virtually limitless (theoretically).

Cutters and connoisseurs have been perfecting diamond cut for centuries. I own antique diamonds and love the history of this art form. Yet truly well cut diamonds remain rare even across history. Again it comes down to the rough and the losses created by chasing perfection, and the lack of demand for said perfection.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

Very interesting, I never realized how much the cut played into the final size. I always assumed the final size would stay the same but I guess when you start to factor in crystal properties, inclusions, etc maybe it will reduce your workable area and increase your refuse.

The more time I spend here the happier I am that I chose the route I did. I will be quoting you @Dreamer_D after I propose lol.

It sitll blows my mind that even when I went to jewelers in houston (albeit not very high end ones) that they knew absolutely nothing about the importance of cut or how it worked! So glad I was able to do enough research to realize the stone I bought was bad which led me to here.

 

[Joseph Herrera]

Answers not in order:
4.. Modern tooling and processes makes entry level PS definition super-ideals Rounds much much easier to cut then the old days. Even steep deeps will often be well executed just cut to angles for weight retention.
There are cutters using that to cheat on the GIA and even AGS grading systems.

However cutting step cuts remains more of an art.
Many of them are not well cut because the cutter either had bad models or could not properly execute good models or got greedy.
There are far fewer companies capable of cutting high end step cuts than there are capable of cutting well cut rounds.
The well cut ones that make the list are usually the result of a cutter hits on a decent model and the stars align and that stone was well executed.

3) very few(some have a fine make line and a regular line so have more stones on the market) and they are not generally step cut cutters so it does not help us here.

2) The gross profit for the cutter may only be 10% with 20% considered to be good on mined diamonds.
That percentage is much higher on LGD.
However in some cases its probably barely covering expenses.
However the improved process and tools along with more automation keeps the quality up and the amount produced high.
This over stock is driving prices down on LGD and will put some of them out of business.

1) NYC cutters are mostly doing repairs and recuts these days the amount of stones cut from rough is tiny.
The best step cut cutters are often cut to order from commercial customers and designers.
They are in Israel, India and Antwerp may have a few left.

It would take a book to list all the details but that's a fairly decent overview.

Interesting, Sounds like economics just aren't there due to demand. Perhaps a marketing genius will walk around soon enough who is able to emphasize and educate the masses on the important of cut above all else and really drive some meaningful change! until then, I will be content knowing what this forum can find

I also asked a similar question to Jon and he said his cutters are in India and Antwerp! you are spot on.

 

[Joseph Herrera]

@Joseph Herrera Hey friend! I'm the other PSer hunting for a well cut lab EC, just came here to wish you the best of luck! Your future fiancée is so lucky to have someone so dedicated to the hunt! The questions you raised earlier today resonated with me quite a bit, I work in the business strategy arena too lol

Very nice to meet you lemonlime and thank you! I will have to tell her about all of your kind words.

Also glad my curiosity is shared

I would tell you good luck but seems like you already know where to go based on your profile pic collection. Maybe I will have to get my GF a tennis bracelet as well