Suggestions for golden gem..

[Harriet]

Here's my neon yellow Danburite. It's heavily included, but I don't care because of its rarity.

And here's my Heliodor: http://com.pricescope.com/photos/martin_designsart_cut_gems/picture1364.aspx

 

[mochi]

Date: 2/21/2009 9:41:38 PM
Author: Harriet
Here''s my neon yellow Danburite. It''s heavily included, but I don''t care because of its rarity.

And here''s my Heliodor: http://com.pricescope.com/photos/martin_designsart_cut_gems/picture1364.aspx

Oh, I love the color of those stones... Must add it to my list!

 

[babysteps]

OMG, these are all such beautiful stones - I love them! I so wish that I could wear yellow, but I have absolutely the wrong skin tone for it. (Too Irish!) I will just have to live vicariously thru all the PS beauties!

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 2/21/2009 9:37:15 PM
Author: Harriet
Hey,
My answer was too simplistic (sorry) and I''ve modified it (see above). There are pictures of my heliodor on here, which I''ll try to find. I also have a pure yellow Danburite.

Hey Harriett, thats cool thankyou very much for elaborating. This thread has been very helpful for me.
So, do all different varieties of the same family have the same RI, dispersion and lustre, or does it vary ?
As in, do different varieties of garnet have different properties as per the above?

Both of those gems are gorgeous, thankyou for sharing. I think that is the nicest heilodor I''ve seen, beautiful!

Love the new av!

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 2/21/2009 9:36:14 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 2/21/2009 9:22:50 PM
Author: arjunajane

Great info, thanks TL!
So does yellow beryl have similar optical properties to aquamarine? Or are they very different, if you know what I mean? As in, Coati's aqua asscher looks quite sparkly and bright to me - could I expect something similiar from yellow beryl?

Beryls (aquamarines, heliodores, morganites, goshenite, emerald, bixbite, and I'm probably missing a group here) do not sparkle in the sense like a diamond or a garnet with a high RI. They don't throw off rainbows. If well cut and clean, they will sparkle due to that, but beryls are typically sought after for their colors than the 'sparkle factor.' I know some people would disagree with me on that, but I own a heliodore, morganite, aquas and emeralds, and they are not the sparkliest of stones. A really well cut one will sparkle nicely, but the fire and dispersion will be lacking. Coati's aqua assher is beautiful because it has a good saturation of color (which is rare in aqua) and it's cut well, and it has an excellent polish to it.

ETA: When you tilt a beryl, you can often see through the stone, even if it's well cut. This is what it means to have a low RI. Even if there is no window face down, you can easily see through a beryl at various vantage points. This is very difficult to do with a diamond, even a poorly cut one. The light travels differently through a diamond than a beryl, and that's why diamonds are so brilliant. It has to do with how the light bends and travels through the stone. Tourmalines also have low RI's and the same is true of those stones as well as beryls. That's why tourmalines are highly sought after for their color and not their brilliance. Again, some people would disagree with me on that, and that's fine.

TL, you're a champ! I know I really need to do my reading and find out what all these term mean, but this one thread and especially many of your posts have explained alot - cheers hon.
So, if I'm someone who really likes the "sparkle factor" and fire, should I stick to garnets (at least for this gem)? I understand they come around second/third after diamond and corundum?
Agreed, Coati's aqua asscher is a colour I have never really seen before in an aqua, amazing!

Is sparkle the same thing as dispersion, or am I wrong again?

I very much appreciate all the help guys, keep it coming, and I promise tons of piccies in return, ha!

 

[T L]

Date: 2/21/2009 10:56:36 PM
Author: arjunajane

TL, you're a champ! I know I really need to do my reading and find out what all these term mean, but this one thread and especially many of your posts have explained alot - cheers hon.
So, if I'm someone who really likes the 'sparkle factor' and fire, should I stick to garnets (at least for this gem)? I understand they come around second/third after diamond and corundum?
Agreed, Coati's aqua asscher is a colour I have never really seen before in an aqua, amazing!

Is sparkle the same thing as dispersion, or am I wrong again?

I very much appreciate all the help guys, keep it coming, and I promise tons of piccies in return, ha!

Thank you. Here's a good website that explains dispersion. Although diamond has a high degree of dispersion, some gemstones are even higher like demantoid, sphene and sphalerite. Here is an example of dispersion in a sphene. The base color of the stone is an apple green, but it throws off almost every color of the rainbow. You won't see a rainbow of colors coming off a beryl. This webpage is great, and it even shows beryl as having a very low degree of dispersion. All well cut transparent and clean gemstones sparkle if they're exposed to a light source, but the degree of dispersion is very different.

http://www.bwsmigel.info/GEOL.115.ESSAYS/Gemology.Dispersion.html

What is so amazing about sphene is that even though the stone depicted is a step cut, and step cuts are not the best cuts for taking advantage of dispersion, this stone species still shows a great deal of dispersion. You wouldn't get that as much with a step cut diamond.

 

[arjunajane]

Thanks TL, good link..

So, what do you think about the new yellow Tourmaline on Dan's site? Can I have peoples thoughts on it? I am currently first inline

I think it looks very pretty and pretty close to the colour I'm after - do you think it has a green or brown modifier? I'm guessing brown, no?
Would love anybody's thoughts!

http://www.customgemstones.com/

 

[mochi]

I LOVE IT!!

His cuts are TDF!!

 

[arjunajane]

Thanks Mochi - I thought this is very odd, I start a thread on PS asking for a sunny stone, than one of my fave cutters happens to cut one!
It must be meant for me no?

I am waiting to hear Dan''s thoughts on it before I get too excited - so I guess you think I should get it, lol?

 

[T L]

Date: 2/22/2009 12:03:01 AM
Author: arjunajane
Thanks TL, good link..

So, what do you think about the new yellow Tourmaline on Dan's site? Can I have peoples thoughts on it? I am currently first inline

I think it looks very pretty and pretty close to the colour I'm after - do you think it has a green or brown modifier? I'm guessing brown, no?
Would love anybody's thoughts!

http://www.customgemstones.com/

It has a brown modifier. The rough looks very brown to me. It's probably a dravite tourmaline (brownish tourmaline). Ask Dan about the brown in it. You might like that. I like the cut on it.

 

[mochi]

Yes, it does have underline brown color. If it doesn''t bother you and it speaks to you, yes. The cut and the size is awsome. Maybe email Dan with your concerns if you have any?

 

[arjunajane]

Thanks TL and Mochi - tbh, I just have no idea whether I would like a brown modifier, as I haven''t seen anything like this IRL.
I have already emailed Dan, we will see what he says and I wil report back - I agree the cut is lovely.

 

[T L]

I know you're looking for a golden gem, but here's a very yellow gem with an extremely strong green secondary. Actually the secondary is caused by green fluorescence. This diamond glows green any time it is exposed to any UV light. I just wanted to share for the sake of sharing since we're talking a lot about yellow gems in this fun thread!

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/fancy-deep-yellow-rb-with-strong-green-fluorescence.100126/

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Yay! We were noticing that at the same time - I asked early this morning and I was right behind you.

I think it''s really pretty- the only thing I wonder about is if it''ll come out darker IRL than in the pic (since quite a few of Dan''s stones seem to look darker than in his pics). I don''t know if that means it''ll show any more brown, or just show a darker yellow. I say go for it and see how it looks IRL!

 

[RNgemlover]

Although spene is a very interesting stone, it is extremely soft, and according to the jeweler I spoke to in Durango, CO who works with it... it can be a real bi^#%$ to work with... Just putting that out there... What about an orange sapphire like mine??? It is much more orange in person, but this will give you an idea...

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 2/22/2009 1:03:16 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover
I know you''re looking for a golden gem, but here''s a very yellow gem with an extremely strong green secondary. Actually the secondary is caused by green fluorescence. This diamond glows green any time it is exposed to any UV light. I just wanted to share for the sake of sharing since we''re talking a lot about yellow gems in this fun thread!

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/fancy-deep-yellow-rb-with-strong-green-fluorescence.100126/

Hey TL, yes pls share any other ideas you come across - this has been a fun thread and I hope it is useful for others in future.
That diamond is pretty incredible - def. more lemon yellow than what I''m after, but pretty none the less.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 2/22/2009 1:32:47 AM
Author: Brown.Eyed.Girl
Yay! We were noticing that at the same time - I asked early this morning and I was right behind you.

I think it's really pretty- the only thing I wonder about is if it'll come out darker IRL than in the pic (since quite a few of Dan's stones seem to look darker than in his pics). I don't know if that means it'll show any more brown, or just show a darker yellow. I say go for it and see how it looks IRL!

Hi BEG - yes, there can be some advantages to being in a different timezone, lol

If I don't decide to go for it you'll be the first to know..Dan said it looks a bit like a citrine but he wants to look at it in daylight before giving more details.
Looking forward to hearing about it

Hi Shaun, yeah I think I have ruled out sphene as I don't like stress during setting. Maybe I will go that road another time.
TBH, if I was going to get a sapph it would probably be a yellow one, not orange - but they're outside my budget anyways. Cheers for the suggestion though.
Maybe its just the photo, but that looks very pink?

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Date: 2/22/2009 2:45:57 AM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 2/22/2009 1:32:47 AM

Author: Brown.Eyed.Girl

Yay! We were noticing that at the same time - I asked early this morning and I was right behind you.


I think it''s really pretty- the only thing I wonder about is if it''ll come out darker IRL than in the pic (since quite a few of Dan''s stones seem to look darker than in his pics). I don''t know if that means it''ll show any more brown, or just show a darker yellow. I say go for it and see how it looks IRL!

Hi BEG - yes, there can be some advantages to being in a different timezone, lol

If I don''t decide to go for it you''ll be the first to know..Dan said it looks a bit like a citrine but he wants to look at it in daylight before giving more details.

Looking forward to hearing about it

Hi Shaun, yeah I think I have ruled out sphene as I don''t like stress during setting. Maybe I will go that road another time.

TBH, if I was going to get a sapph it would probably be a yellow one, not orange - but they''re outside my budget anyways. Cheers for the suggestion though.

Maybe its just the photo, but that looks very pink?

Ooh don''t worry about me! It''s lovely but not what I''m looking for (esp. since I just bought something an hour ago) so I don''t want you to feel like I''m peering over your shoulder

I hope you like it and decide that''s the one! It''s really pretty and you know I''d love for those pretties to go to a fellow PSer

 

[ma re]

What shape and cutting style would you prefer for this golden stone? That also might help you make a decision. Zircons have a high refractive index and are more suitable for brilliant cuts, since those take full advantage of their optical properties. I remember seeing a brown zircon and thinking I could easily mistake that for a brown diamond, because it was cut in a brilliant cut and had a scintillation (degree of "life") only comparable to that of a diamond. Beryls, on the other hand, have a lower refractive index, but I think that works great with more gentle, warmer shandes of orangy yellow, usually found in that variety. And even though they''re not as lively or have as much fire (i.e. dispersion) as zircons, they have another interesting property. An extremly high level of transparency. That is something all beryls have, except bixbites and emeralds and that''s the reason why even small aquamarines (I''m sure you''ve seen that) can be very sparkly and have a crisp, "crystal" clarity - something quite hard to find in other varieties. Also note that zircons have high birefringence, which means that a beam of light splits in two when it enters the stone, and that (unlike with most stones), this effect is quite obvious with them. That can make a stone, especially the one with a lighter color, appear fuzzy. It may not be obvious from the distance, but THIS is how it can look from up-close. It is also easier to see in cutting styles with more facets, as edges of pavillion facets are visually doubled (like there''s two of them everywhere, paralel to eachother). And BTW, zircons are known to chip more than most other stones so if you''d like it to last, don''t set it in a ring.

 

[arjunajane]

Hey ma re, great info thankyou for your post.
In all honesty, I think I might lead zircon out of the equation - it simply doesn''t appeal to me much.
So, after Dan''s yellow tourm, the choices are grossular or maybe mali garnet, chrysoberyl, and heliodore.
Personally, I''d rather a garnet but apparently these varieties don''t cut very large sizes much..?

I have no definate ideas for cut, but I was thinking it would be nice to have a step cut maybe an asscher as I don''t own one yet.
I would like it to be at least 6.5mm, preferably more like 7 or 8

Any more tips based on the above?

 

[ma re]

Yes, grossulars rarely come in sizes above 2 cts, and they (garnets) are also quite dense so make for smaller stones than some other varieties. Mali garnets can sometimes (but not very often) be found in sizes of 3 or more carats, while chrysoberyls easily get to three, sometimes even more than four. They''re also less dense than garnets. Beryls have the lowest density and are the easiest to find in large sizes (easily over 5, not rare in 10+). And I''m no expert on cutting, but from what I know asschers tend to be quite deep, which means the stone will not be as large in diameter, as one might think judging by the carat weight.

And a few things I forgot to mention. Both zircons and golden beryls are usually heated to enhance the color. Nothing wrong with that, but thought you might want to know. Unheated materials of both tend to be lighter in tone than heated.

About brown undertones - imagine a lemon on a light wooden table. Light colors of wood sometimes appear yellow, untill we see something in a pure yellow next to it, which makes the browns in the wood more obvious.

Also keep in mind that high dispersion of garnets may, in stronger (more saturated) colors, result in a gaudy combination. Sometimes, not always, and it also depends on your taste; but I''m not crazy about those.

 

[T L]

Date: 2/22/2009 5:48:53 AM
Author: ma re
Yes, grossulars rarely come in sizes above 2 cts, and they (garnets) are also quite dense so make for smaller stones than some other varieties. Mali garnets can sometimes (but not very often) be found in sizes of 3 or more carats, while chrysoberyls easily get to three, sometimes even more than four. They''re also less dense than garnets. Beryls have the lowest density and are the easiest to find in large sizes (easily over 5, not rare in 10+). And I''m no expert on cutting, but from what I know asschers tend to be quite deep, which means the stone will not be as large in diameter, as one might think judging by the carat weight.

And a few things I forgot to mention. Both zircons and golden beryls are usually heated to enhance the color. Nothing wrong with that, but thought you might want to know. Unheated materials of both tend to be lighter in tone than heated.

About brown undertones - imagine a lemon on a light wooden table. Light colors of wood sometimes appear yellow, untill we see something in a pure yellow next to it, which makes the browns in the wood more obvious.

Also keep in mind that high dispersion of garnets may, in stronger (more saturated) colors, result in a gaudy combination. Sometimes, not always, and it also depends on your taste; but I''m not crazy about those.

LOL, funny. I never thought of the dispersion in garnets resulting in gaudy combinations!! You are very up to speed on your gem knowledge Mr. Ma Rae. I always enjoy your posts.

I think if I had to pick a golden gem, it would be a Mali garnet hands down. Durability, the gawdy dispersion (I love it!!), and the pricepoint for the sizes, are all things that are in it''s favor. Multicolour.com has many very affordable and well cut Mali''s.

 

[Rockit]

Beautiful yellow tourmaline. My concern would be that it may appear quite yellow in sunlight, but more brown indoors. I''m curious to hear Dan''s comments. It really is lovely...

 

[ma re]

Date: 2/22/2009 8:56:23 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover

LOL, funny. I never thought of the dispersion in garnets resulting in gaudy combinations!! You are very up to speed on your gem knowledge Mr. Ma Rae. I always enjoy your posts.

I think if I had to pick a golden gem, it would be a Mali garnet hands down. Durability, the gawdy dispersion (I love it!!), and the pricepoint for the sizes, are all things that are in it''s favor. Multicolour.com has many very affordable and well cut Mali''s.

OK, maybe I overreacted a bit, they''re rarely gawdy, but they can be IMO, especially in green-brown-yellow body tones. And the degree to which dispersion would be visible also depends on the cutting style. Higher crowns result in more fire, just so you know

 

[Harriet]

Date: 2/21/2009 10:51:14 PM
Author: arjunajane
Hey Harriett, thats cool thankyou very much for elaborating. This thread has been very helpful for me.
So, do all different varieties of the same family have the same RI, dispersion and lustre, or does it vary ?
As in, do different varieties of garnet have different properties as per the above?
Both of those gems are gorgeous, thankyou for sharing. I think that is the nicest heilodor I''ve seen, beautiful!

Love the new av!

Intra-family, those characteristics can vary. For example, demantoids have greater dispersion than other garnets. Thanks!

 

[Harriet]

Date: 2/22/2009 10:35:46 AM
Author: ma re
OK, maybe I overreacted a bit, they''re rarely gawdy, but they can be IMO, especially in green-brown-yellow body tones. And the degree to which dispersion would be visible also depends on the cutting style. Higher crowns result in more fire, just so you know

Aw, you don''t like demantoids? I''ve recently fallen in love with the spectral green ones.

 

[coatimundi_org]

Whatup again ajgemmagem,

Garnet is a group of gems--within that group, there are different species--within the different species, there are varieties. Each variety has different properties, and not all garnets have varieties, some are identified by species and group only--like spessartite garnets.

For example:

Mali Garnet is a trade name for the species-grossularite-andradite within the group of garnet.

If you're interested in garnets, it's best to research them individually, as their properties are unique.

With beryl, properties are similar among the different varieties--they don't share atoms in the way garnets do.

Yellow beryl can have great color, but if you want a superstar yellow, get a garnet.

 

[coatimundi_org]

Date: 2/21/2009 8:21:18 PM
Author: arjunajane

Hey fellow gemnut

May I see a pic of your heliodore? That is one that is one the shortlist..Thankyou for your thoughts

Here's my yellow beryl. It's a 12mm Portuguese cut. Like TL said, because of its lower RI and dispersion, it does not have the brilliance or fire of a grossular or Mali garnet, but it's decently cut and is actually quite lively, though the picture does not indicate that! I bought if for very little, and it's a very fun stone!

 

[T L]

Date: 2/22/2009 1:11:12 PM
Author: coatimundi

Date: 2/21/2009 8:21:18 PM
Author: arjunajane

Hey fellow gemnut

May I see a pic of your heliodore? That is one that is one the shortlist..Thankyou for your thoughts

Here's my yellow beryl. It's a 12mm Portuguese cut. Like TL said, because of its lower RI and dispersion, it does not have the brilliance or fire of a grossular or Mali garnet, but it's decently cut and is actually quite lively, though the picture does not indicate that! I bought if for very little, and it's a very fun stone!

Coati can probably correct me if I'm wrong, but I think golden beryl is not classified as heliodore. Her beryl looks to have more green in it, and it is more of a lemony yellow, so I would classify that as heliodore. I see some brown, but I think that's a reflection off of the object in the background.

That's a very pretty beryl Coati. I have a step cut one which is not a golden color, but a more lemony shade of yellow. I must admit it's not my favorite color, but I bought the ring over 20 years ago. I also forgot, but I have an oval portuguese cut loose golden beryl as well (bought around 15 years ago). I should post some pics when I get a chance. I never wear the ring, and the oval golden beryl was forgotten about until now, which is a pity since it's nicely cut, and has scintillation. Heck I forgot I had a euclase until that stone was brought up in this forum. Euclase is a very rare gem and also comes in a yellow color.

 

[ma re]

Date: 2/22/2009 12:45:13 PM
Author: Harriet
Aw, you don''t like demantoids? I''ve recently fallen in love with the spectral green ones.

Depends on the shade. THIS (green with brown and yellow) I don''t like, but THIS I don''t have a problem with (a purer green). Additional colors, like that of a fire, would IMO be a bit much for the first one. But that''s a matter of taste.