Suggestions for golden gem..

[coatimundi_org]

Date: 2/22/2009 1:37:22 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Coati can probably correct me if I'm wrong, but I think golden beryl is not classified as heliodore. Her beryl looks to have more green in it, and it is more of a lemony yellow, so I would classify that as heliodore. I see some brown, but I think that's a reflection off of the object in the background.


That's a very pretty beryl Coati. I have a step cut one which is not a golden color, but a more lemony shade of yellow. I must admit it's not my favorite color, but I bought the ring over 20 years ago. I also forgot, but I have an oval portuguese cut loose golden beryl as well (bought around 15 years ago). I should post some pics when I get a chance. I never wear the ring, and the oval golden beryl was forgotten about until now, which is a pity since it's nicely cut, and has scintillation. Heck I forgot I had a euclase until that stone was brought up in this forum. Euclase is a very rare gem and also comes in a yellow color.

Description of heliodor beryl from my lab manual:

"Light toned, weakly to moderately saturated, slightly greenish yellow to orangy yellow." (and that is just general observation--can be more saturated or darker in tone--that's just the basic guideline for identification purposes)

I don't use the term "golden" for a variety of beryl--vernacular/trade usage? I think of it as yellow or heliodor beryl with the greenish or orangeish modifiers. (this is just me anyway--I don't get ticky about terms for yellow beryl--now green beryl and emerald--that's another story!)

Thanks TL--it is slightly greenish.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 2/22/2009 1:37:22 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Coati can probably correct me if I'm wrong, but I think golden beryl is not classified as heliodore.

Some people use "heliodor" to refer to golden beryl, some use it to refer to yellow beryl, and some use it to refer to both. As Shakespeare wrote: "What's in a name. That which we call a rose would by any name would smell as sweet."

ETA:
"Since there is no clear distinction possible in the yellow and green-yellow tones in comparison to golden beryl, heliodors are generally rejected as an independent precious beryl variety and rather are counted among the weak-colored golden beryls." (Walter Schumann, Gemstones of the World)

 

[Harriet]

Date: 2/22/2009 2:02:42 PM
Author: ma re

Date: 2/22/2009 12:45:13 PM
Author: Harriet
Aw, you don''t like demantoids? I''ve recently fallen in love with the spectral green ones.

Depends on the shade. THIS (green with brown and yellow) I don''t like, but THIS I don''t have a problem with (a purer green). Additional colors, like that of a fire, would IMO be a bit much for the first one. But that''s a matter of taste.

Agreed. Wanna help me find one of the latter?

 

[platinumrock]

Date: 2/21/2009 1:15:29 PM
Author: Gailey
Thanks Kitty!

Last shot for now because I am running out again. Here''s a group shot with my Malaya garnet

Ummmm...excuse me while I wipe the slobber oozing down my chin.....

Gailey, you need to warn people before you post pics like that!

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Date: 2/22/2009 1:11:12 PM
Author: coatimundi

Date: 2/21/2009 8:21:18 PM

Author: arjunajane


Hey fellow gemnut

May I see a pic of your heliodore? That is one that is one the shortlist..Thankyou for your thoughts

Here''s my yellow beryl. It''s a 12mm Portuguese cut. Like TL said, because of its lower RI and dispersion, it does not have the brilliance or fire of a grossular or Mali garnet, but it''s decently cut and is actually quite lively, though the picture does not indicate that! I bought if for very little, and it''s a very fun stone!

Coati I love that yellow beryl. I think that color was almost exactly what I was looking for awhile back (in search of something sunny and happy!)

 

[coatimundi_org]

Date: 2/22/2009 7:29:21 PM
Author: Brown.Eyed.Girl



Coati I love that yellow beryl. I think that color was almost exactly what I was looking for awhile back (in search of something sunny and happy!)

Thanks BEG! It''s a very happy stone.

I was going to set it, but I got sidetracked...as you know.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 2/22/2009 12:43:53 PM
Author: Harriet

Date: 2/21/2009 10:51:14 PM
Author: arjunajane
Hey Harriett, thats cool thankyou very much for elaborating. This thread has been very helpful for me.
So, do all different varieties of the same family have the same RI, dispersion and lustre, or does it vary ?
As in, do different varieties of garnet have different properties as per the above?
Both of those gems are gorgeous, thankyou for sharing. I think that is the nicest heilodor I''ve seen, beautiful!

Love the new av!

Intra-family, those characteristics can vary. For example, demantoids have greater dispersion than other garnets. Thanks!

Thanks Harriett, and you''re welcome

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 2/22/2009 12:59:58 PM
Author: coatimundi
Whatup again ajgemmagem,

Garnet is a group of gems--within that group, there are different species--within the different species, there are varieties. Each variety has different properties, and not all garnets have varieties, some are identified by species and group only--like spessartite garnets.

For example:

Mali Garnet is a trade name for the species-grossularite-andradite within the group of garnet.

If you''re interested in garnets, it''s best to research them individually, as their properties are unique.

With beryl, properties are similar among the different varieties--they don''t share atoms in the way garnets do.

Yellow beryl can have great color, but if you want a superstar yellow, get a garnet.

Ha, I love it! maybe that should''ve been my screen name..

That was exactly what I wanted to know, thanks hon!
And I love your sunny beryl, such a pretty photo too.
Cheers for sharing

 

[ma re]

Date: 2/22/2009 2:29:21 PM
Author: Harriet
Agreed. Wanna help me find one of the latter?

I''m afraid I wouldn''t be of much help when it comes to gem shopping, considering my experience in that department so far

But hey, there are enough folks here who buy gems on a daily, correction: hourly, basis

 

[arjunajane]

So, about the yellow tourmaline, Dan says it is very brilliant, eye clean and bright orange-gold color much like a citrine.
Its also a great size at 8mm..

What do folks think? Should I go for the tourm, or hold out for a smaller grossular or mali garnet?

Pic again just incase..

 

[T L]

Date: 2/23/2009 5:20:18 AM
Author: arjunajane
So, about the yellow tourmaline, Dan says it is very brilliant, eye clean and bright orange-gold color much like a citrine.
Its also a great size at 8mm..

What do folks think? Should I go for the tourm, or hold out for a smaller grossular or mali garnet?

Pic again just incase..

In terms of color and sparklke, I personally would rather have a Mali or grossular garnet. If I were to get this particular stone, it would be for the cutting, and not the color. I don''t own any of Dan''t gemstones, but from what I''ve seen posted by PS''ers, that is by far one of my most favorite of Dan''s cuts.

However, if you like the color of a bright orange-gold citrine, go for it. At least this is all natural color, and most citrines are not natural in color. Hope that helps in your decision making.

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Date: 2/23/2009 5:20:18 AM
Author: arjunajane
So, about the yellow tourmaline, Dan says it is very brilliant, eye clean and bright orange-gold color much like a citrine.

Its also a great size at 8mm..


What do folks think? Should I go for the tourm, or hold out for a smaller grossular or mali garnet?

Pic again just incase..

Ooh I know, I know! ::raises hand::

My answer is...get this tourmaline now, and then get a grossular or mali too!

::is proud of self::

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 2/23/2009 7:03:20 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 2/23/2009 5:20:18 AM
Author: arjunajane
So, about the yellow tourmaline, Dan says it is very brilliant, eye clean and bright orange-gold color much like a citrine.
Its also a great size at 8mm..

What do folks think? Should I go for the tourm, or hold out for a smaller grossular or mali garnet?

Pic again just incase..

In terms of color and sparklke, I personally would rather have a Mali or grossular garnet. If I were to get this particular stone, it would be for the cutting, and not the color. I don''t own any of Dan''t gemstones, but from what I''ve seen posted by PS''ers, that is by far one of my most favorite of Dan''s cuts.

However, if you like the color of a bright orange-gold citrine, go for it. At least this is all natural color, and most citrines are not natural in color. Hope that helps in your decision making.

Thanks TL. I agree, I''m not sure if the colour is *exactly* what I was after (but really hard to tell over computer), but the cut and size are awesome.
hrrmmm..not easy!

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 2/23/2009 7:31:48 AM
Author: Brown.Eyed.Girl

Date: 2/23/2009 5:20:18 AM
Author: arjunajane
So, about the yellow tourmaline, Dan says it is very brilliant, eye clean and bright orange-gold color much like a citrine.

Its also a great size at 8mm..


What do folks think? Should I go for the tourm, or hold out for a smaller grossular or mali garnet?

Pic again just incase..

Ooh I know, I know! ::raises hand::

My answer is...get this tourmaline now, and then get a grossular or mali too!

::is proud of self::

Yes Yes very good BEG - I don''t need any more encouragement ya dag! Tee hee, thanks hon..(I think?)..

Any other thoughts?

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Date: 2/23/2009 8:08:32 AM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 2/23/2009 7:31:48 AM

Author: Brown.Eyed.Girl

Date: 2/23/2009 5:20:18 AM

Author: arjunajane

So, about the yellow tourmaline, Dan says it is very brilliant, eye clean and bright orange-gold color much like a citrine.


Its also a great size at 8mm..



What do folks think? Should I go for the tourm, or hold out for a smaller grossular or mali garnet?

Pic again just incase..

Ooh I know, I know! ::raises hand::


My answer is...get this tourmaline now, and then get a grossular or mali too!


::is proud of self::

Yes Yes very good BEG - I don't need any more encouragement ya dag! Tee hee, thanks hon..(I think?)..

Any other thoughts?

Hehe

(sidenote: I had to wikipedia "dag"- I had no idea what it meant!

)

My opinion: I think you can return a stone if you're not happy with it right? So if that's the case, I say go for it and at least see it in person - you might love it and decide it's what you're looking for, or you might decide it's not right, but at least you'll be able to see it in different lighting conditions, etc. If you don't like it (or it doesn't really fit that golden color you want) then return it and keep looking

EDIT: Just realized - maybe returning it isn't the best idea (not sure how much postage would be for you). If you can't or it's not a viable option, I think I'm in the "you should get it because you like the size and cut" camp

 

[T L]

It also depends on the price point as well. Dravite tourmalines are some of the least expensive, especially if there''s a lot of brown in it. I think you would be paying primarily for the cutting on the stone, which is fine, and well worth it from all the beautiful stones I see posted from "happy Dan customers."

Like BEG said, you probably need to see it in person to get a true feeling for it. It''s so difficult to tell from a picture, but keep in mind that I''ve heard this repeated several times on PS, that Dan''s pictures are lighter than the stones. Someone please correct me if that''s an invalid statement.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 2/23/2009 8:17:08 AM
Author: Brown.Eyed.Girl

Date: 2/23/2009 8:08:32 AM
Author: arjunajane


Yes Yes very good BEG - I don''t need any more encouragement ya dag! Tee hee, thanks hon..(I think?)..

Any other thoughts?

Hehe

(sidenote: I had to wikipedia ''dag''- I had no idea what it meant!

)

My opinion: I think you can return a stone if you''re not happy with it right? So if that''s the case, I say go for it and at least see it in person - you might love it and decide it''s what you''re looking for, or you might decide it''s not right, but at least you''ll be able to see it in different lighting conditions, etc. If you don''t like it (or it doesn''t really fit that golden color you want) then return it and keep looking

EDIT: Just realized - maybe returning it isn''t the best idea (not sure how much postage would be for you). If you can''t or it''s not a viable option, I think I''m in the ''you should get it because you like the size and cut'' camp

He he, yes dag , chuckle..

Thanks for your thoughts hon - yes I would love to take a look IRL, but return postage will be kinda expensive with insurance, maybe $50 or so

And I wouldn''t really want to waste Dan''s time..

It''s definately more affordable than a garnet, which would be smaller too - I think it would be good value for the size and cutting alone - maybe I will just get it over for a look anyways, I''m sure it will impress

I''ve just got a real thing for garnets

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 2/23/2009 8:34:12 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover
It also depends on the price point as well. Dravite tourmalines are some of the least expensive, especially if there's a lot of brown in it. I think you would be paying primarily for the cutting on the stone, which is fine, and well worth it from all the beautiful stones I see posted from 'happy Dan customers.'

Like BEG said, you probably need to see it in person to get a true feeling for it. It's so difficult to tell from a picture, but keep in mind that I've heard this repeated several times on PS, that Dan's pictures are lighter than the stones. Someone please correct me if that's an invalid statement.

Hey TL, is there something that makes you think its def. a dravite? I don't want to quote too much of Dan's emails, but he did say it doesn't show much brown tones, just a light golden - he did also say its not quite as light as the photo, so your assessment is correct I think.

How much should one expect to pay for a dravite per ct?

Anyways, I'm sure many of you are convinced I'm giving this way too much thought for a not very important or expensive gem, lol!
Perhaps I should wait until I "fall in love" with something else after all ..?

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Date: 2/23/2009 8:34:12 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover
It also depends on the price point as well. Dravite tourmalines are some of the least expensive, especially if there''s a lot of brown in it. I think you would be paying primarily for the cutting on the stone, which is fine, and well worth it from all the beautiful stones I see posted from ''happy Dan customers.''

Like BEG said, you probably need to see it in person to get a true feeling for it. It''s so difficult to tell from a picture, but keep in mind that I''ve heard this repeated several times on PS, that Dan''s pictures are lighter than the stones. Someone please correct me if that''s an invalid statement.

I''ve heard the same (Dan''s pics are lighter than the stones) and it was also true of the grossular garnet I got from him and the blue sapphire. Actually and my umbalite too. It was fine with me - I love the stones, but still something worth thinking about.

AJ, $50 in postage?? Ouch! I see why you want to make a decision now. I don''t know how much the stone is, but if it''s not outrageous, I would get it even if I ended up getting a grossular or mali later - chalk it up as a learning experience, and a learning experience that gets you a still beautiful stone in both color and cut. And I''m sure you''ll be able to set that later into a stunning ring or pendant or whatnot! But it depends on how comfortable you are with the thought of maybe having to get another stone later that really fits the color you want

 

[T L]

Date: 2/23/2009 8:41:34 AM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 2/23/2009 8:34:12 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover
It also depends on the price point as well. Dravite tourmalines are some of the least expensive, especially if there''s a lot of brown in it. I think you would be paying primarily for the cutting on the stone, which is fine, and well worth it from all the beautiful stones I see posted from ''happy Dan customers.''

Like BEG said, you probably need to see it in person to get a true feeling for it. It''s so difficult to tell from a picture, but keep in mind that I''ve heard this repeated several times on PS, that Dan''s pictures are lighter than the stones. Someone please correct me if that''s an invalid statement.

Hey TL, is there something that makes you think its def. a dravite? I don''t want to quote too much of Dan''s emails, but he did say it doesn''t show much brown tones, just a light golden - he did also say its not quite as light as the photo, so your assessment is correct I think.

How much should one expect to pay for a dravite per ct?

Anyways, I''m sure many of you are convinced I''m giving this way too much thought for a not very important or expensive gem, lol!
Perhaps I should wait until I ''fall in love'' with something else after all ..?

Dravite is brownish tourmaline. It may be my computer monitor, but to me the rough looked very brown for that stone, and the stone itself shows quite a bit of brown in it. If the pictures are truly lighter than the actual stone, I would assume it''s probably very brown. Gold is a combination of yellow and brown, so even if it''s a light golden, it will still have brown in it. However, you want a golden stone. Brown typically is a modifier that brings down the value in a gemstome.

I don''t think I can comment on how much dravite should cost per carat in this case, because USA cutting by fine faceters always has a premium attached to it. However, the fact that it is a golden tourmaline probably makes it one of the more affordable pieces that Dan has cut, since you have mentioned it is affordable for the size.

 

[arjunajane]

Thanks girls for all your thoughts!

I am waiting to hear what Gene thinks he could do in a mali or grossular, then will see how we go.

 

[ma re]

Even if you don''t end up loving it, I''m sure it would make a very nice christmas/birthday/whatever present for someone - maybe your significant other; guys tend to love brownish stones

 

[T L]

AJJ,
Did you get the stone?

 

[mochi]

AJ...I wants to know also if you got the stone???

 

[mochi]

Do you all think there is alot of brown in this tourmaline??

 

[RNgemlover]

Look at this hot mamma!!!

http://www.precisiongem.com/html/html/zircon.html

 

[T L]

Date: 2/24/2009 12:22:10 AM
Author: mochi
Do you all think there is alot of brown in this tourmaline??

As far as my own personal taste, I find orange browns more attractive than yellowish browns. However, I do think there is substantial brown in that round stone. You can tell because if you compare it to a more pure orange with less brown like this stone, you can really see the difference.

 

[arjunajane]

Hey mochi and TL, no I''ve decided to hold out for a gold/yellow garnet like I originally wanted..thankyou all very much for your help.
If anyone''s keen, I thought Dan was offering a fair price..and post Pics!!

 

[bling addict]

Hey AJ
Did you ask Dan if he could do a yellow grossular garnet? I got one from him a few weeks ago and it''s a really pretty sunny yellow --- sorry I don''t have any pics - I didn''t get around to taking any straight away, and then when I tried had a flat battery.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 2/24/2009 6:06:14 AM
Author: bling addict
Hey AJ
Did you ask Dan if he could do a yellow grossular garnet? I got one from him a few weeks ago and it''s a really pretty sunny yellow --- sorry I don''t have any pics - I didn''t get around to taking any straight away, and then when I tried had a flat battery.

Oohh BA, I''d love to see please please please! I have discussed the grossulars with Dan, although they are going to cut a lil smaller than I''d like..
What size and shape did you get?
And do you think it will be the sunny yellow colour that I''m after?
Thankyou for posting BA!