Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in NYC.

[justginger]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

Our lives in modern times in the western world are so protected that an injection is considered trauma for a baby or child? Do YOU remember your baby vaccinations? Neither do I. Sure, we hate to see little guys crying, but it's over in minutes. If that's the worst trauma they will experience in their lives, they'd do well to grab it. Flame me as heartless, but I hate to think of the mental maiming a skinned knee will cause these protected little dears.

As for the evolution disbelief, I'm in disbelief myself that anyone can be so willfully ignorant. There's evidence all around us. The people who don't think it's real don't hesitate to acknowledge that dogs evolved from wolves, housecats from big cats, birds from dinosaurs, plants from other plants. Only humans, apparently, sprang fully-made as we are. We are still evolving, in fact -- it's not a finite process but a continuum on which we are only one point. I think that's fascinating!

--- Laurie

This made me giggle a little, Laurie! ...but there are so many who believe just that. I love to see the expressions on their faces when I ask about the apparent incestuous relationship between between the children of Adam & Eve. LOL

I'm still good friends with a girl from pharmacy school who didn't believe dinosaurs ever existed. Period. Ummmm, okay. I didn't even bother with the conversation... sometimes ya just have to smile and move on to another topic.

One of my (educated, Christian) friends here genuinely believes that unicorns didn't get on the Ark. That one threw me for a loop the first time she said it. I hardly know the frank, undeniably true history of the Earth, so there's a chance she's right - but it still tickles me. I see t as an endearing quirk.

 

[ksinger]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

One of the downsides of today's political correctness is, stupid is now equal to smart.

The 50% with below average IQ are now equal to the 50% with above average IQ … it follows, so are their ideas.

I'm not being flip, critical or putting down people with low-IQ.
I am putting down not being able to call a spade a spade.

This paradox is a real problem for society and the return of measles in fricking New York City, FRICKING NYC USA!, is a perfect example.

I promise this piece will resonate.

The Death of Expertise
http://thefederalist.com/2014/01/17/the-death-of-expertise/

Relevant clip from the article:

"This isn’t just about politics, which would be bad enough. No, it’s worse than that: the perverse effect of the death of expertise is that without real experts, everyone is an expert on everything. To take but one horrifying example, we live today in an advanced post-industrial country that is now fighting a resurgence of whooping cough — a scourge nearly eliminated a century ago — merely because otherwise intelligent people have been second-guessing their doctors and refusing to vaccinate their kids after reading stuff written by people who know exactly zip about medicine. (Yes, I mean people like Jenny McCarthy.

In politics, too, the problem has reached ridiculous proportions. People in political debates no longer distinguish the phrase “you’re wrong” from the phrase “you’re stupid.” To disagree is to insult. To correct another is to be a hater. And to refuse to acknowledge alternative views, no matter how fantastic or inane, is to be closed-minded."

 

[msop04]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

I'm still good friends with a girl from pharmacy school who didn't believe dinosaurs ever existed. Period. Ummmm, okay. I didn't even bother with the conversation... sometimes ya just have to smile and move on to another topic.

One of my (educated, Christian) friends here genuinely believes that unicorns didn't get on the Ark. That one threw me for a loop the first time she said it. I hardly know the frank, undeniably true history of the Earth, so there's a chance she's right - but it still tickles me. I see t as an endearing quirk.[/quote]

Holy sh!t. That's a new one on me... { smh }

I can't wait to ask my friend (mentioned above) her opinion regarding the non-existent unicorn population. I wonder if it was an accident or if Noah purposefully left them due to that sharp horn being a safety risk - poking a hole in the boat - causing it to sink, thus the extinction of all the species on Earth??? LOL ...seriously, that's freakin' hilarious!

 

[kenny]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

One of the downsides of today's political correctness is, stupid is now equal to smart.

The 50% with below average IQ are now equal to the 50% with above average IQ … it follows, so are their ideas.

I'm not being flip, critical or putting down people with low-IQ.
I am putting down not being able to call a spade a spade.

This paradox is a real problem for society and the return of measles in fricking New York City, FRICKING NYC USA!, is a perfect example.

I promise this piece will resonate.

The Death of Expertise
http://thefederalist.com/2014/01/17/the-death-of-expertise/

Relevant clip from the article:

"This isn’t just about politics, which would be bad enough. No, it’s worse than that: the perverse effect of the death of expertise is that without real experts, everyone is an expert on everything. To take but one horrifying example, we live today in an advanced post-industrial country that is now fighting a resurgence of whooping cough — a scourge nearly eliminated a century ago — merely because otherwise intelligent people have been second-guessing their doctors and refusing to vaccinate their kids after reading stuff written by people who know exactly zip about medicine. (Yes, I mean people like Jenny McCarthy.

In politics, too, the problem has reached ridiculous proportions. People in political debates no longer distinguish the phrase “you’re wrong” from the phrase “you’re stupid.” To disagree is to insult. To correct another is to be a hater. And to refuse to acknowledge alternative views, no matter how fantastic or inane, is to be closed-minded."

But have you SEEN Jenny McCarthy?
She's gorgeous.

 

[msop04]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

One of the downsides of today's political correctness is, stupid is now equal to smart.

The 50% with below average IQ are now equal to the 50% with above average IQ … it follows, so are their ideas.

I'm not being flip, critical or putting down people with low-IQ.
I am putting down not being able to call a spade a spade.

This paradox is a real problem for society and the return of measles in fricking New York City, FRICKING NYC USA!, is a perfect example.

Thus the problem with extreme political correctness. This is when our "rights" will eventually become the death of all of us... quite literally, given the topic of this thread.

 

[msop04]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

One of the downsides of today's political correctness is, stupid is now equal to smart.

The 50% with below average IQ are now equal to the 50% with above average IQ … it follows, so are their ideas.

I'm not being flip, critical or putting down people with low-IQ.
I am putting down not being able to call a spade a spade.

This paradox is a real problem for society and the return of measles in fricking New York City, FRICKING NYC USA!, is a perfect example.

I promise this piece will resonate.

The Death of Expertise
http://thefederalist.com/2014/01/17/the-death-of-expertise/

Relevant clip from the article:

"This isn’t just about politics, which would be bad enough. No, it’s worse than that: the perverse effect of the death of expertise is that without real experts, everyone is an expert on everything. To take but one horrifying example, we live today in an advanced post-industrial country that is now fighting a resurgence of whooping cough — a scourge nearly eliminated a century ago — merely because otherwise intelligent people have been second-guessing their doctors and refusing to vaccinate their kids after reading stuff written by people who know exactly zip about medicine. (Yes, I mean people like Jenny McCarthy.

In politics, too, the problem has reached ridiculous proportions. People in political debates no longer distinguish the phrase “you’re wrong” from the phrase “you’re stupid.” To disagree is to insult. To correct another is to be a hater. And to refuse to acknowledge alternative views, no matter how fantastic or inane, is to be closed-minded."

Very well stated, ksinger.

 

[kenny]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

I promise this piece will resonate.

The Death of Expertise
http://thefederalist.com/2014/01/17/the-death-of-expertise/

Thanks.
Lots of excellent points here.

Unfortunately, stupid is gaining power.

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

Has anyone ever seen Idiocracy? We're not that far off!

 

[Rhapsody]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

RE the booster thing-I worked for my Dr. for 8 years and never ONCE had anyone come in for imm. boosters, and we saw a minimum of 60 patients, closer to 80 if you counted labs, daily. And, I'd worked there for over 6 years before finding out that you even had to *get* boosters. I'd never ONCE heard any of the nurses or providers mention it, *ever*. I'd never seen anything anywhere about it. It was just a random hey we need to get everyone in the office updated on their shots...I said mom was meticulous about taking us in for them, so I've had them all. Nurse looks at me like I'm dumb..uhhh yeaaah they're not lifetime, you need them again. I said well maybe you should be telling people, I dunno, seems a smart way to let people know maybe, seeing as how I wasn't a nurse or provider, how would a layperson know?

The flu thing drives me crazy every year. "I get the shot but I still get the flu". Well maybe if more people would immunize themselves, it wouldn't go around so dang bad. ugh.

Some vaccines are effective longer than others, and it depends on a lot of factors. It is frustrating that most doctors don't talk to their patients about it.

Instead if just getting boosters I ask for antibody titers tests every 5 years to see whether they're still high enough to confer immunity. They're taking blood anyway, and who likes getting more shots than they have to

There's a lot of backlash against science and medicine now. I remember during the 2008 election a lot of the "government pork" commercials were about science related topics. People are afraid that the desire for profit guides doctors recommendations more than care for their patients health. People don't know who to trust so they latch on to whatever they want to believe.

I work in research and my father has told me that I am the enemy, we can really cure all disease and the companies hide these cures to make more money. Oi.

 

[msop04]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

Some vaccines are effective longer than others, and it depends on a lot of factors. It is frustrating that most doctors don't talk to their patients about it.

Instead if just getting boosters I ask for antibody titers tests every 5 years to see whether they're still high enough to confer immunity. They're taking blood anyway, and who likes getting more shots than they have to

There's a lot of backlash against science and medicine now. I remember during the 2008 election a lot of the "government pork" commercials were about science related topics. People are afraid that the desire for profit guides doctors recommendations more than care for their patients health. People don't know who to trust so they latch on to whatever they want to believe.

I work in research and my father has told me that I am the enemy, we can really cure all disease and the companies hide these cures to make more money. Oi.

I'm always shocked when someone says that... it irks my nerves, to say the least. It's really scary to me that there are people would actually think the government would just sit back and let people suffer so drug companies can prosper.

 

[ksinger]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

Some vaccines are effective longer than others, and it depends on a lot of factors. It is frustrating that most doctors don't talk to their patients about it.

Instead if just getting boosters I ask for antibody titers tests every 5 years to see whether they're still high enough to confer immunity. They're taking blood anyway, and who likes getting more shots than they have to

There's a lot of backlash against science and medicine now. I remember during the 2008 election a lot of the "government pork" commercials were about science related topics. People are afraid that the desire for profit guides doctors recommendations more than care for their patients health. People don't know who to trust so they latch on to whatever they want to believe.

I work in research and my father has told me that I am the enemy, we can really cure all disease and the companies hide these cures to make more money. Oi.

I'm always shocked when someone says that... it irks my nerves, to say the least. It's really scary to me that there are people would actually think the government would just sit back and let people suffer so drug companies can prosper.

No, it's perfectly understandable, if un-nuanced and misdirected. Obviously we can't cure all disease and there is no overarching conspiracy to hide stuff, but government policy these days usually favors the financial interests of corporations over the individual. I would like to say surely there is no one who would dispute that anymore, but I'm sure there would be. Anyway...

In any large corporation or bureaucracy, there are many good and ethical people working for them, but the higher up one goes, the larger the egos, and the more suspect the motives become.

Lack of effective government oversight and regulation allowed the financial/housing meltdown, resulting in the insane enrichment of the financial class.

We are seriously discussing whether corporations - which are now even more firmly, immortal people - should be allowed to patent human genes. And we could go on endlessly about the tactics of a corporation like Monsanto. GMO food anyone?

I personally know several geologists who work for large oil companies, and they (probably to reduce cognitive and moral dissonance) INSIST that fracking and the attendent injection wells, are NOT causing the literally 100s of earthquakes that are always right near the injection wells, that are happening in my non-earthquake-prone area. Even as the geologists working at the USGS publishes reports saying otherwise. So yes, personal financial interest can skew the stances of even the best scientists too.

All of these corporate interests spend billions on lobbying. And the government, alas, responds with legislation favorable to the money. Is it any wonder people (you know, the messy flesh and blood ones) have trust issues with that government? To just dismiss every bit of government as corrupt is just the least labor-intensive response. Otherwise you have to parse a bunch of data pretty hard to figure out which areas of governemt aren't screwing us. A lot of people just aren't willing to make those distinctions, because the issues are so overwhelming, and you get responses like the one above...

 

[msop04]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

No, it's perfectly understandable, if un-nuanced and misdirected. Obviously we can't cure all disease and there is no overarching conspiracy to hide stuff, but government policy these days usually favors the financial interests of corporations over the individual. I would like to say surely there is no one who would dispute that anymore, but I'm sure there would be. Anyway...

In any large corporation or bureaucracy, there are many good and ethical people working for them, but the higher up one goes, the larger the egos, and the more suspect the motives become.

Lack of effective government oversight and regulation allowed the financial/housing meltdown, resulting in the insane enrichment of the financial class.

We are seriously discussing whether corporations - which are now even more firmly, immortal people - should be allowed to patent human genes. And we could go on endlessly about the tactics of a corporation like Monsanto. GMO food anyone?

I personally know several geologists who work for large oil companies, and they (probably to reduce cognitive and moral dissonance) INSIST that fracking and the attendent injection wells, are NOT causing the literally 100s of earthquakes that are always right near the injection wells, that are happening in my non-earthquake-prone area. Even as the geologists working at the USGS publishes reports saying otherwise. So yes, personal financial interest can skew the stances of even the best scientists too.

All of these corporate interests spend billions on lobbying. And the government, alas, responds with legislation favorable to the money. Is it any wonder people (you know, the messy flesh and blood ones) have trust issues with that government? To just dismiss every bit of government as corrupt is just the least labor-intensive response. Otherwise you have to parse a bunch of data pretty hard to figure out which areas of governemt aren't screwing us. A lot of people just aren't willing to make those distinctions, because the issues are so overwhelming, and you get responses like the one above...

To clarify, are you saying it is your belief that our government knows how to cure diseases, but keeps those cures secret so that drug companies can make more money?

 

[Trekkie]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

It is interesting to note that the anti-vaccers on Pricescope have been conspicuously absent.

Dare I hope that fact and science have finally forced them to see the light?

 

[chrono]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

What can anti-vaccers say in this thread and who would want to? The "full attack mode" tone is very strong and clear.

 

[msop04]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

What can anti-vaccers say in this thread and who would want to? The "full attack mode" tone is very strong and clear.

What is left for them to say? It's been made clear that their stance against vaccinations can really hurt themselves and others. This issue isn't as simple as as "I don't like it" or "it's against my beliefs"... this is when your actions (or lack thereof) affect everyone's health. I'm not saying that to be mean ...people can die. They are dying.

 

[vintagelover229]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

What can anti-vaccers say in this thread and who would want to? The "full attack mode" tone is very strong and clear.

I agree-with terms being thrown around such as 'hate' 'punch them in the face' and 'child abuse' I'd crawl into a hole too. Besides would any 'evidence' they provided actually do anything to change anyone's minds? Seems that faith (I won't use religion because I believe that is a controlling factor and one can have faith and not be religious) = anti-science in this thread.

Doesn't matter anyways. The only way to make everyone vax would be to make it a law-which is unconstitutional at least in the USA. And if the gov't starts doing that I do believe that changes freedom into something else...and that's a slippery slope IMO. If they start forcing people to do stuff like this how far of a cry is it to say that people who are a burden on the medical system don't have a right to care?

I know-I'm stretching it but one can't deny that there is a LOT of money to be made in forced vax just like the guy in FL who's transferred a drug testing company into his wife's name just before they made drug tests mandatory to get aid (not saying I disagree with the drug tests-just saying that is' awfully convenient to stand to make millions upon that decision)

 

[justginger]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

What can anti-vaccers say in this thread and who would want to? The "full attack mode" tone is very strong and clear.

What is left for them to say? It's been made clear that their stance against vaccinations can really hurt themselves and others. This issue isn't as simple as as "I don't like it" or "it's against my beliefs"... this is when your actions (or lack thereof) affect everyone's health. I'm not saying that to be mean ...people can die. They are dying.

Yes. I believe your individual rights end when your actions do severe harm to other individuals, and the health of society as a whole.

 

[Trekkie]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

What can anti-vaccers say in this thread and who would want to? The "full attack mode" tone is very strong and clear.

What is left for them to say? It's been made clear that their stance against vaccinations can really hurt themselves and others. This issue isn't as simple as as "I don't like it" or "it's against my beliefs"... this is when your actions (or lack thereof) affect everyone's health. I'm not saying that to be mean ...people can die. They are dying.

Yes. I believe your individual rights end when your actions do severe harm to other individuals, and the health of society as a whole.

Absolutely. People are dying.

 

[justginger]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

What can anti-vaccers say in this thread and who would want to? The "full attack mode" tone is very strong and clear.

I agree-with terms being thrown around such as 'hate' 'punch them in the face' and 'child abuse' I'd crawl into a hole too. Besides would any 'evidence' they provided actually do anything to change anyone's minds? Seems that faith (I won't use religion because I believe that is a controlling factor and one can have faith and not be religious) = anti-science in this thread.

Doesn't matter anyways. The only way to make everyone vax would be to make it a law-which is unconstitutional at least in the USA. And if the gov't starts doing that I do believe that changes freedom into something else...and that's a slippery slope IMO. If they start forcing people to do stuff like this how far of a cry is it to say that people who are a burden on the medical system don't have a right to care?

I know-I'm stretching it but one can't deny that there is a LOT of money to be made in forced vax just like the guy in FL who's transferred a drug testing company into his wife's name just before they made drug tests mandatory to get aid (not saying I disagree with the drug tests-just saying that is' awfully convenient to stand to make millions upon that decision)

I don't think it is a slippery slope. Vaccinations save lives. Blood transfusions save lives. Legally, parents can NOT refuse a blood transfusion for their child, no matter what their religious or personal beliefs are. The same should be held for vax, only more strict as it is a matter of both individual and public health.

 

[Trekkie]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

What can anti-vaccers say in this thread and who would want to? The "full attack mode" tone is very strong and clear.

I agree-with terms being thrown around such as 'hate' 'punch them in the face' and 'child abuse' I'd crawl into a hole too. Besides would any 'evidence' they provided actually do anything to change anyone's minds? Seems that faith (I won't use religion because I believe that is a controlling factor and one can have faith and not be religious) = anti-science in this thread.


Doesn't matter anyways. The only way to make everyone vax would be to make it a law-which is unconstitutional at least in the USA. And if the gov't starts doing that I do believe that changes freedom into something else...and that's a slippery slope IMO. If they start forcing people to do stuff like this how far of a cry is it to say that people who are a burden on the medical system don't have a right to care?

I know-I'm stretching it but one can't deny that there is a LOT of money to be made in forced vax just like the guy in FL who's transferred a drug testing company into his wife's name just before they made drug tests mandatory to get aid (not saying I disagree with the drug tests-just saying that is' awfully convenient to stand to make millions upon that decision)

Faith? Faith in what? I don't recall reading any scripture (in any religion) that said, "thou shalt not vaccinate".

The decision not to vaccinate is irrational, reckless and dangerous.

No anti-vaccer has been able to prove otherwise.

Like someone else once said (possibly here or possibly elsewhere), on the one hand we have facts and science. On the other hand we have Jenny McCarthy.

 

[Tuckins1]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

Ya know, a friend of mine was worried about Autism, so she didn't vaccinate.... Her son has moderate-severe Autism.... I am a special ed teacher and a school psychologist in training... I have extensively studied child development, psychopathology, etc... and there is no credible link. The original study had been long disputed and discredited for a variety of reasons, including faulty methodology, and even ethical dilemmas. I have seen kids who had reactions for vaccines, who have ended up with SEVERE multiple impairments. However, there may have been something present already in their system/structure that would have reacted the same with another substance or pathogen, and the same thing may have ended up happening, vaccine or no. It is scary to think that something that you choose to do to your child could cause them harm, but the harm that could be caused by NOT vaccinating far outweighs the harm of doing it.

 

[msop04]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

Seems that faith (I won't use religion because I believe that is a controlling factor and one can have faith and not be religious) = anti-science in this thread.

Doesn't matter anyways. The only way to make everyone vax would be to make it a law-which is unconstitutional at least in the USA. And if the gov't starts doing that I do believe that changes freedom into something else...and that's a slippery slope IMO. If they start forcing people to do stuff like this how far of a cry is it to say that people who are a burden on the medical system don't have a right to care?

I agree that making it law would be a violation of our freedom... but with our rights being slowly taken away, would it be such a stretch for our government to make it a legal issue? I seriously doubt it would happen anytime soon. We (as Americans) may wait until years of outbreaks of various infections cause many people (whatever number that may be) to die, or until several high-profile people are seriously affected. Then the government might consider making it law, and many would wonder why it was never required in the first place (the exception would be those in which the vaccine is contraindicated). You can't save everyone from themselves, but when it affects everyone they come in contact with, it is a major cause for concern. Ignorance is definitely abundant, and it seems to be increasing rapidly.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

[quote="msop04|1395001410|
We have seen so many more flu cases these past 4 or 5 years bc parents refuse to vaccinate their children or themselves, for that matter! I had one pt (a dad) bring is little girl in this past winter -- she tested positive for flu, as did two other family members when it was all said and done... As I was ringing him up for her $75.00 Tamiflu, he made the comment, "Thank goodness for Tamiflu! We don't do flu shots, so we've all taken our share of it... it seems like we deal with this every year now!" and I kid you not, in the same breath he said, "...ya know, this flu is a mess! My mother-in-law had to go to the hospital and almost died from it!!" Ummmm.... HELLO??!! She probably got it from your family!

It was everything I could do to keep my composure when I expressed how important vaccinations were... I don't think he even cared because they can just take Tamiflu, right??!! [/quote]



I have never taken a flu shot in my life, and the last time I caught the flu was over 25 yrs ago.... Some of my friends who took the flu shot every year will catch the flu after a few days.

 

[AN0NYM0US]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

...or so the government wants you to think.

*Twilight zone music*

 

[ksinger]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

No, it's perfectly understandable, if un-nuanced and misdirected. Obviously we can't cure all disease and there is no overarching conspiracy to hide stuff, but government policy these days usually favors the financial interests of corporations over the individual. I would like to say surely there is no one who would dispute that anymore, but I'm sure there would be. Anyway...

In any large corporation or bureaucracy, there are many good and ethical people working for them, but the higher up one goes, the larger the egos, and the more suspect the motives become.

Lack of effective government oversight and regulation allowed the financial/housing meltdown, resulting in the insane enrichment of the financial class.

We are seriously discussing whether corporations - which are now even more firmly, immortal people - should be allowed to patent human genes. And we could go on endlessly about the tactics of a corporation like Monsanto. GMO food anyone?

I personally know several geologists who work for large oil companies, and they (probably to reduce cognitive and moral dissonance) INSIST that fracking and the attendent injection wells, are NOT causing the literally 100s of earthquakes that are always right near the injection wells, that are happening in my non-earthquake-prone area. Even as the geologists working at the USGS publishes reports saying otherwise. So yes, personal financial interest can skew the stances of even the best scientists too.

All of these corporate interests spend billions on lobbying. And the government, alas, responds with legislation favorable to the money. Is it any wonder people (you know, the messy flesh and blood ones) have trust issues with that government? To just dismiss every bit of government as corrupt is just the least labor-intensive response. Otherwise you have to parse a bunch of data pretty hard to figure out which areas of governemt aren't screwing us. A lot of people just aren't willing to make those distinctions, because the issues are so overwhelming, and you get responses like the one above...

To clarify, are you saying it is your belief that our government knows how to cure diseases, but keeps those cures secret so that drug companies can make more money?

Not entirely sure how you'd get that out of my post, but it was stupidly early when I made it. Maybe I was more incoherent than I thought....so...

No, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. But a preponderance of people making decisions based on a single world view, can look like one in certain lights. What I'm saying is there are plenty of examples to point to, that support the idea that government is favoring the money-making goals of corporations, over the good of society as a whole. (Because NEWS FLASH: money motivation does NOT always result in the best outcome for the most people) A person would have to be living in a fantasy world to assert otherwise.

Likewise, a distrust of the corporations and those that run them, who are essentially paying huge sums for access to and undue influence on the levers of power, is understandable. And there are more than a few examples of that too.

It's a pretty unholy combination, and I can easily see why some people would just say, "Screw it, they're ALL corrupt." And if that person is also conspiracy minded in the first place, they might see a conspiracy.

I didn't say I agreed, or that it was intelligent, only that I can understand how it happens. It takes lots of effort to navigate a shades-of-grey world, casting that world as black OR white takes far less energy. Feeling overwhelmed by the world, and too much data, is a recipe for a churned-up emotional state, which is NOT a good place from which to take a rational, nuanced stand on ANY issue.

Basically, what we see is an almost complete erosion of trust in our fellow men, a concomitant erosion of the concept of "the public good",and the rise of a very unselfconscious screw-you-I've-got-mine mentality. And the extolling of using one's "gut" over one's brains, where every opinion is worthy of equal time and SHOULD carry equal weight. It's what allows anti-vaxers to hold those positions and not have the least qualms about it. If these people gave a single damn about anyone but their own kids, and themselves, they'd be getting vaccinations. Period.

 

[ksinger]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

[quote="msop04|1395001410|
We have seen so many more flu cases these past 4 or 5 years bc parents refuse to vaccinate their children or themselves, for that matter! I had one pt (a dad) bring is little girl in this past winter -- she tested positive for flu, as did two other family members when it was all said and done... As I was ringing him up for her $75.00 Tamiflu, he made the comment, "Thank goodness for Tamiflu! We don't do flu shots, so we've all taken our share of it... it seems like we deal with this every year now!" and I kid you not, in the same breath he said, "...ya know, this flu is a mess! My mother-in-law had to go to the hospital and almost died from it!!" Ummmm.... HELLO??!! She probably got it from your family!

It was everything I could do to keep my composure when I expressed how important vaccinations were... I don't think he even cared because they can just take Tamiflu, right??!!

I have never taken a flu shot in my life, and the last time I caught the flu was over 25 yrs ago.... Some of my friends who took the flu shot every year will catch the flu after a few days.[/quote]


Yes DF, we are very well aware that to you, anecdote is data. For the rest of us living in the reality-based world, not so much.

 

[msop04]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

To clarify, are you saying it is your belief that our government knows how to cure diseases, but keeps those cures secret so that drug companies can make more money?

Not entirely sure how you'd get that out of my post, but it was stupidly early when I made it. Maybe I was more incoherent than I thought....so...

No, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. But a preponderance of people making decisions based on a single world view, can look like one in certain lights. What I'm saying is there are plenty of examples to point to, that support the idea that government is favoring the money-making goals of corporations, over the good of society as a whole. (Because NEWS FLASH: money motivation does NOT always result in the best outcome for the most people) A person would have to be living in a fantasy world to assert otherwise.

Likewise, a distrust of the corporations and those that run them, who are essentially paying huge sums for access to and undue influence on the levers of power, is understandable. And there are more than a few examples of that too.

It's a pretty unholy combination, and I can easily see why some people would just say, "Screw it, they're ALL corrupt." And if that person is also conspiracy minded in the first place, they might see a conspiracy.

I didn't say I agreed, or that it was intelligent, only that I can understand how it happens. It takes lots of effort to navigate a shades-of-grey world, casting that world as black OR white takes far less energy. Feeling overwhelmed by the world, and too much data, is a recipe for a churned-up emotional state, which is NOT a good place from which to take a rational, nuanced stand on ANY issue.

Basically, what we see is an almost complete erosion of trust in our fellow men, a concomitant erosion of the concept of "the public good",and the rise of a very unselfconscious screw-you-I've-got-mine mentality. And the extolling of using one's "gut" over one's brains, where every opinion is worthy of equal time and SHOULD carry equal weight. It's what allows anti-vaxers to hold those positions and not have the least qualms about it. If these people gave a single damn about anyone but their own kids, and themselves, they'd be getting vaccinations. Period.

No problem!! I must have read something into it that wasn't there... and I agree with what you've said.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

[quote="msop04|1395064302|

To clarify, are you saying it is your belief that our government knows how to cure diseases, but keeps those cures secret so that drug companies can make more money?[/quote]



If we didn't live in a "sue happy society" the drug companies will release more drugs to cure more diseases.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

[quote="ksinger|1395073401
Yes DF, we are very well aware that to you, anecdote is data. For the rest of us living in the reality-based world, not so much.[/quote]



let me just say that I don't wanna break my 25 yr winning streak.

 

[msop04]

Re: Thanks, Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought Back Measles in N

[quote="msop04|1395001410|
We have seen so many more flu cases these past 4 or 5 years bc parents refuse to vaccinate their children or themselves, for that matter! I had one pt (a dad) bring is little girl in this past winter -- she tested positive for flu, as did two other family members when it was all said and done... As I was ringing him up for her $75.00 Tamiflu, he made the comment, "Thank goodness for Tamiflu! We don't do flu shots, so we've all taken our share of it... it seems like we deal with this every year now!" and I kid you not, in the same breath he said, "...ya know, this flu is a mess! My mother-in-law had to go to the hospital and almost died from it!!" Ummmm.... HELLO??!! She probably got it from your family!

It was everything I could do to keep my composure when I expressed how important vaccinations were... I don't think he even cared because they can just take Tamiflu, right??!!

I have never taken a flu shot in my life, and the last time I caught the flu was over 25 yrs ago.... Some of my friends who took the flu shot every year will catch the flu after a few days.

That's great that you've never had to experience the flu -- it's horrible. I can't imagine anyone wanting another person to catch it. That said, by not being vaccinated, you may can be a carrier (even though you show no symptoms) and pass it on to someone else. Not everyone just gets over it and then everything is fine. The very young, elderly, and immunocompromised can die.