The rough for my Octavia (pics)...

[yennyfire]

DF did you pay one fixed price regardless of the resulting carat weight, color and clarity?
If not, are you obligated to buy it regardless of final specs at some as-yet undisclosed price, or were several prices quoted to cover all possible weight and grade combinations?
Do you own the rough, IOW if it were to explode on the wheel do you still have to pay for it?
Who's risk is it?
We always read here that if we submit a diamond for recutting the risk is 100% ours.
Is there insurance for such a concern for such a project?

I realize I'm asking personal and perhaps rude questions, so you are totally free to not answer or even respond.

I'm just curious how such a unique project, with so many complicated business considerations, would be structured and priced for GOG and the customer to agree to to proceed.

Kenny...I think it would be best for Jon to answer these Qs.

No problem.
I bet I'm not the only one who has wondered about the gory details of commissioning such a project.

Yup, I'll admit to having several of these questions float thru my mind. Hope we are lucky enough to get some additional info so that we can see the process from beginning to end. It's totally incredible!! Thanks for sharing it with us DF and Yoram!

 

[Dancing Fire]

DF did you pay one fixed price regardless of the resulting carat weight, color and clarity?
If not, are you obligated to buy it regardless of final specs at some as-yet undisclosed price, or were several prices quoted to cover all possible weight and grade combinations?
Do you own the rough, IOW if it were to explode on the wheel do you still have to pay for it?
Who's risk is it?
We always read here that if we submit a diamond for recutting the risk is 100% ours.
Is there insurance for such a concern for such a project?

I realize I'm asking personal and perhaps rude questions, so you are totally free to not answer or even respond.

I'm just curious how such a unique project, with so many complicated business considerations, would be structured and priced for GOG and the customer to agree to to proceed.

Kenny...I think it would be best for Jon to answer these Qs.

No problem.
I bet I'm not the only one who has wondered about the gory details of commissioning such a project.

Kenny
If Jon feels comfortable answering your Qs on this thread he is welcome to do so, b/c I don't have an answer to every Q above...

 

[texaskj]

Well DF, this is one helluva way to celebrate your 20,000th post.
Lucky dog.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

WoooHooo! If DF is getting an Octavia for 20k posts, just think what I should get!!!

I will just say to Kenny and those interested, in my experience even if Jon has a stone custom cut for you, you are paying for the finished stone as projected. They can fairly accurately project the specs.

 

[kenny]

I will just say to Kenny and those interested, in my experience even if Jon has a stone custom cut for you, you are paying for the finished stone as projected. They can fairly accurately project the specs.

Here are the 'projected specs' from this thread's OP.
Polished weight estimation: 2.34 to 2.23ct+/-
Color: 10% G - 20% H - 50% I - 20% J.
Clarity: VS++ (I can’t visualize any inclusions in its natural rough state), but as you notice in the image, it’s a bit frosty.

So do you feel Jon and DF agreed to one fixed price, regardless of the lab grading it G, H, I, or J?
That would surprise me.
I think it more likely Jon presented, and DF agreed to, a list of prices for all the possible combinations of grades and weights.

I'm very curious about who is taking the financial risk of putting the stone to the wheel.

I think this is a legit topic since other customers may 'commission' diamonds from rough in the future.
Wanting to understand how such projects are structured is reasonable, though Jon and DF are certainly under no obligation to reveal anything.
The details are nobody's business, but even a discussion in generic terms may be helpful.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

All I can tell you is that when he was going to cut a stone for me (but the rough was a diamond that was already cut), he set a price prior to the new grading. I ended up deciding to go for a larger stone and he sold that stone before it ever hit the website. DF may have a different arrangement, but I don't think Jon makes someone financially commit to a stone being cut without a price being set. There may be variables that are different in different situations, so he may not want to state all those details.

 

[kenny]

All I can tell you is that when he was going to cut a stone for me (but the rough was a diamond that was already cut), he set a price prior to the new grading.

Starting with a stone that was already cut and graded seems quite different from fixing a price based on a rough diamond with frosty skin and color that an expert anticipates will fall somewhere over a range of four grades.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

All I can tell you is that when he was going to cut a stone for me (but the rough was a diamond that was already cut), he set a price prior to the new grading.

Starting with a stone that was already cut and graded seems quite different from fixing a price based on a rough diamond with frosty skin and color that an expert anticipates will fall somewhere over a range of four grades.

I agree, however, you cannot assume that one that was previously graded will come back the same.

 

[kenny]

All I can tell you is that when he was going to cut a stone for me (but the rough was a diamond that was already cut), he set a price prior to the new grading.

Starting with a stone that was already cut and graded seems quite different from fixing a price based on a rough diamond with frosty skin and color that an expert anticipates will fall somewhere over a range of four grades.

I agree, however, you cannot assume that one that was previously graded will come back the same.

Still, a cut and graded diamond vs. a rough with frosty skin and a 4-grade range do not even compare when it comes to Jon's ability to anticipate a post-polish price.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Kenny...I hope Jon replies to this thread so he can explain the details about purchasing a rough for cutting. Like I said in my post above I don't mind sharing information, but like DS say... "there may be variables that are different in different situations".

 

[kenny]

Kenny...I hope Jon replies to this thread so he can explain the details about purchasing a rough for cutting. Like I said in my post above I don't mind sharing information, but like DS say... "there may be variables that are different in different situations".

Absolutely!
I would not expect Jon to publish detailed terms that tie his hands in the future.

It's Jon's call.
I'd totally understand if he wanted to handle every aspect of every deal in private.

But this is PS and we discuss all things diamonds ... and this is a very unique project so IMO curiosity is understandable.
Again, no problem if no details are forthcoming.

Just had to ask.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Kenny...I hope Jon replies to this thread so he can explain the details about purchasing a rough for cutting. Like I said in my post above I don't mind sharing information, but like DS say... "there may be variables that are different in different situations".

Absolutely!
I would not expect Jon to publish detailed terms that tie his hands in the future.

Just had to ask.

Exactly, b/c I don't wanna put Jon in a difficult situation.

Kenny, here's what I can tell you...I did asked Jon to sent you the bill when my Octavia is done ...

 

[Rhino]

Just catchin this guys (late here in NY and eyes closing). . Not difficult but will answer in detail over the next 48. They are honest questions that deserve honest answers.

 

[kenny]

Kenny...I hope Jon replies to this thread so he can explain the details about purchasing a rough for cutting. Like I said in my post above I don't mind sharing information, but like DS say... "there may be variables that are different in different situations".

Absolutely!
I would not expect Jon to publish detailed terms that tie his hands in the future.

Just had to ask.

Exactly, b/c I don't wanna put Jon in a difficult situation.

Kenny, here's what I can tell you...I did asked Jon to sent you the bill when my Octavia is done ...

DF, you are such a good friend.

 

[pyramid]

Yes big difference in price between a 2.34 G VVS2 and a 2.20 J VS2. I am wondering too how this is priced out. At that carat weight too it may affect a persons ability to buy the stone or not. Not Dancing Fire just a person in general I mean.



[quote="kenny|1403411826|3698419
Here are the 'projected specs' from this thread's OP.
Polished weight estimation: 2.34 to 2.23ct+/-
Color: 10% G - 20% H - 50% I - 20% J.
Clarity: VS++ (I can’t visualize any inclusions in its natural rough state), but as you notice in the image, it’s a bit frosty.

So do you feel Jon and DF agreed to one fixed price, regardless of the lab grading it G, H, I, or J?
That would surprise me.
I think it more likely Jon presented, and DF agreed to, a list of prices for all the possible combinations of grades and weights.[/quote]

 

[pyramid]

Just read up the page and see Rhino has pre-answered us.

 

[kenny]

Wow, I realized the spec range could result in a wide price range, but not this wide.

I just searched Bluenile's database for their top-cut rounds, Signature Ideal.
2.20 - 2.35 carat
G - J
VVS1 - VS2

It found 15 diamonds, priced from $25,628 to $46,752.
The most expensive is almost double the price of the least.

I realize a round Sig Ideal and an Octavia are very different cuts, but how weight, color and clarity influences price is probably not that different.

If Jon and DF agreed to one mid-range price regardless of resulting specs both might win or lose about $10,000.
With a twenty-thousand dollar spread I can't imagine either would agree to gamble on a single price.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Wow, I realized the spec range could result in a wide price range, but not this wide.

I just searched Bluenile's database for their top-cut rounds, Signature Ideal.
2.20 - 2.35 carat
G - J
VVS1 - VS2

It found 15 diamonds, priced from $25,628 to $46,752.
The most expensive is almost double the price of the least.

I realize a round Sig Ideal and an Octavia are very different cuts, but how weight, color and clarity influences price is probably not that different.

If Jon and DF agreed to one mid-range price regardless of resulting specs both might win or lose about $10,000.
With a twenty-thousand dollar spread I can't imagine either would agree to gamble on a single price.

Kenny, I made an offer to Jon that he can't refuse..

 

[Dancing Fire]

WoooHooo! If DF is getting an Octavia for 20k posts, just think what I should get!!!

I will just say to Kenny and those interested, in my experience even if Jon has a stone custom cut for you, you are paying for the finished stone as projected. They can fairly accurately project the specs.

Have Yoram cut you a 3.5ct AVR! ...

 

[texaskj]

Wow, I realized the spec range could result in a wide price range, but not this wide.

I just searched Bluenile's database for their top-cut rounds, Signature Ideal.
2.20 - 2.35 carat
G - J
VVS1 - VS2

It found 15 diamonds, priced from $25,628 to $46,752.
The most expensive is almost double the price of the least.

I realize a round Sig Ideal and an Octavia are very different cuts, but how weight, color and clarity influences price is probably not that different.

If Jon and DF agreed to one mid-range price regardless of resulting specs both might win or lose about $10,000.
With a twenty-thousand dollar spread I can't imagine either would agree to gamble on a single price.

Kenny, I made an offer to Jon that he can't refuse..

A trade with a watch involved, perhaps?

 

[ckrickett]

I am loving this thread!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Just catchin this guys (late here in NY and eyes closing). . Not difficult but will answer in detail over the next 48. They are honest questions that deserve honest answers.

The Rhino is awake!

 

[Lorelei]

This thread....

 

[OoohShiny]

This thread....

Will anyone on the left hand side of the pond get that picture? lol

 

[Lorelei]

This thread....

Will anyone on the left hand side of the pond get that picture? lol

That, my shiny friend, I cannot answer....

 

[diamondseeker2006]

WoooHooo! If DF is getting an Octavia for 20k posts, just think what I should get!!!

I will just say to Kenny and those interested, in my experience even if Jon has a stone custom cut for you, you are paying for the finished stone as projected. They can fairly accurately project the specs.

Have Yoram cut you a 3.5ct AVR! ...

What a great idea!!!!

 

[kenny]

This thread....

Will anyone on the left hand side of the pond get that picture? lol

Characters from the show, Absolutely Fabulous.
They call it AbFab.
Hilarious.

 

[OoohShiny]

This thread....

Will anyone on the left hand side of the pond get that picture? lol

Characters from the show, Absolutely Fabulous.
They call it AbFab.
Hilarious.

Very good! You pass the test

 

[WinkHPD]

Just catchin this guys (late here in NY and eyes closing). . Not difficult but will answer in detail over the next 48. They are honest questions that deserve honest answers.

Waiting! Or did you mean 48 days???

Wink

 

[Karl_K]

Just catchin this guys (late here in NY and eyes closing). . Not difficult but will answer in detail over the next 48. They are honest questions that deserve honest answers.

Waiting! Or did you mean 48 days???

Wink

lol Wink.
We are debating on which way of doing it will best serve our customers while at the same time make sure we can afford to do it.