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The Trump Policy of Separating Families at the US Border

AGBF said:
I have noticed this heart-wrenching phenomenon in Central America and Bolivia. I do not know if it is prevalent in other parts of South America and other parts of the world: both parents leaving one or more young children at home while they go to the United States to work, hoping to make more money to bring the others over. In my family of origin, that was not the pattern. My great-grandfather and my grandfather left the family in the Austro-Hungarian Empire and traveled back and forth by ship when they could. The rest of the (very large) family remained in Europe until other boys were old enough to work in the United States, too, and share in doing the passage. Eventually, when there was enough money, everyone together, the women and girls included, migrated to the United States. So there was separation, but the young children were never separated from their mother.

AGBF
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I’m sure many affluent people have cleaning ladies or housekeepers who have left their children behind in order to provide for them. These mothers are everywhere. In my community we try not to judge as we can only imagine what dire circumstances they were in to make that sacrifice.
 
Matata said:
Yes it is and more's the pity. Disclaimer: I'm not calling you out. I want to respond to this particular statement because someone says it every time our government or some radical left-right wing group engages in another atrocity. Whether we like it or not, there is an uncomfortably large population of citizens in this country who support and advocate all that has come to the fore since trump was elected. They are part of us and if we don't like it, we need to find ways to change it.
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You are using my post to fit your commentary though. The majority of Americans find this situation abhorrent, across party lines.
 
ceg said:
I am a total supporter of the 1st Amendment so I believe these jackasses have their rights but they disgust me.
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This administration has repeatedly violated the 1st amendment. It is frightening. As for our ill-mannered and immoral fellow citizens who support this bull, they've changed me from a tolerant let's-find-a-way-to-compromise person to one who now challenges friends, neighbors, relatives, and strangers when I see/hear behavior that doesn't respect equal rights for all.
 
Bonfire said:
You are using my post to fit your commentary though. The majority of Americans find this situation abhorrent, across party lines.
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No. You said this isn't who we are. Doesn't matter what the percentages of good and bad are. The bad are just as much a part of who we are as the good. They represent us as much as the good, more so because they have majority rule in government at this point. The world knows, as do we, that we aren't all bad. When the bad have the power, are in control, and present that face on the world stage, that is who we are. Denial doesn't fix it.
 
Hi,

As I understand it there are two classes of immigrant entrants. The illegal entrants were previously caught and just returned across the border. Now, they decided to criminalize this action as a misdemeaner (Sp), and as such the children can be removed from the parent. The other entrant is the asylum seeker, which is handled by an administrative court judge. I do not see anything that would allow Gov't to take your children. They could increase administrative courts to hear cases and adjudicate more quickly. They are making people wait at the border. They are deliberately slow processing them, hoping they go away. Even once they cross the border I don't see how they can remove children from the asylum seeker. No legal redress for this?

Now, if Trump were smart, he would have seen this as an opportunity to fire the Attorney General. His new campaign manger suggested it. I know I thought I would fire Jeff Session for instituting such a policy. It would be hard to object. MSNBC was suggesting Steve Miller had to go. Me, I'd fire the AG

Hope the babies make it. Most of us treat our animals better.

Annette
 
Dancing Fire said:
Simple solution, don't bring your childs into U.S. illegally. If it was this easy my grandpa could have saved a lot of money for sponsoring us here into the U.S. legally.
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Even simpler solution: Don't be so foolish as to be born into a country that the US has had a major part in destabilizing for the last six decades, rendering it completely unsafe for you and your children to live there.

Instead, either be born into a country that has already "taken care of" its indigenous population to make room for you or have the good fortune (like my parents and apparently yours) to be able to immigrate here legally. Easy peasy!

If you're not able to do that, tough sh*t, why should we care? Take your little infestations back to your country and hope you get murdered sooner rather than later so that you don't have to suffer for too long. Or save money, like DF's wonderful grandpa, so that you can immigrate legally, because we DNGAF what happens to you.
 
My thoughts are meandering all over the place. Apologies in advance if this post lacks cohesiveness.
* Trump is worrying about an infestation of criminals, rapists, drug lords. What type of people does he think those traumatized children he's incarcerated could turn into because of the damage being done by that incarceration and separation from their families? The irony. Those potentially damaged kids being raised in foster care in the US potentially turning into the types of people trump wants to keep out. Wonder who he'll blame for that. On the other hand he's also creating a self-fulfilling prophesy because he can then claim he was right about all those brown-skinned criminals.

*Think about all the adults and children who have been traumatized by the horrors of war in the Mideast. Generations of people. The numbers are staggering. They are emotionally, physically, psychically damaged and they will have impact on the present and the future of any country in which they reside.

....and drat, I have more but need to leave for appointments. Sorry. In the meantime, folks, let's try to come up with ideas about what should be done for a global citizenry in crisis, how it should be done, and how the share of workable solutions should be split among developed nations on this tiny blue globe.
 
@redwood66 I can’t agree with you that congress needs to fix this when Trump could have ended this the day it started. This policy was made by Miller, Trump and Kelly for the sole purpose of torturing these families.

Trump will NEVER admit he was wrong. He is responsible for the zero tolerance policy. He has been chipping away bit by bit everything our country stands for. We’ve all watched him degrade a war prisioner, gold star families, women, blacks, mexicans, EVERYONE who isn’t a white male. We all watched What happened in Charlottesville. Separating these families is just his the next powerful step. The Republican Party has backed Trump the entire way. None of them have the backbone to stand up to him even when he is torturing children.

Past presidents (Bush included) would never have acted like this. The Republican Party is now the Trump Party. Every decent Republican I know of has left the Republican Party. Or as the put it, the Republican Party has left them.

I’m way to emotional about this subject and I won’t back down. Everyone of these children and their families may develop PTSD. They probably won’t be able to get proper mental health care to treat it. Republicans should be ashamed of themselves. Quit blaming the democrats for what your party has done to these families when your party is control of all branches of government. If they are silent, they are complict.

Drop this policy and then sit at a table with republicans and democrats to come up with humane solutions to fix the immigration problems.
 
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nala said:
I’m sure many affluent people have cleaning ladies or housekeepers who have left their children behind in order to provide for them. These mothers are everywhere. In my community we try not to judge as we can only imagine what dire circumstances they were in to make that sacrifice.
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You assume I only know Hispanic people because I have cleaning women. My "cleaning woman" is a white woman who speaks only English since she never managed to learn a foreign language in high school. And my daughter was born in Colombia. She has always gravitated to Hispanic friends.

...and my daughter's boyfriend is from Bolivia. He was left there alone for his entire childhood, sometimes in an orphanage and sometimes with relatives. He is now a heroin addict. I did not say I was judging his mother, but I will say that his loss of her traumatized him. He adores her and would never allow anyone to say a disparaging word against her (nor would I have any inclination to do so). But I believe he was adversely affected by her loss. I also believe his addiction is due to the trauma of that loss. And I am sure he is going to die from it. He has overdosed in my house and in my father's car.
 
Thank you for your post @Matata
 
AGBF said:
You assume I only know Hispanic people because I have cleaning women. My "cleaning woman" is a white woman who speaks only English since she never managed to learn a foreign language in high school. And my daughter was born in Colombia. She has always gravitated to Hispanic friends.

...and my daughter's boyfriend is from Bolivia. He was left there alone for his entire childhood, sometimes in an orphanage and sometimes with relatives. He is now a heroin addict. I did not say I was judging his mother, but I will say that his loss of her traumatized him. He adores her and would never allow anyone to say a disparaging word against her (nor would I have any inclination to do so). But I believe he was adversely affected by her loss. I also believe his addiction is due to the trauma of that loss. And I am sure he is going to die from it. He has overdosed in my house and in my father's car.
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My comment was a general one. Not aimed at you. I’m sorry you took it that way.
 
AGBF said:
You assume I only know Hispanic people because I have cleaning women. My "cleaning woman" is a white woman who speaks only English since she never managed to learn a foreign language in high school. And my daughter was born in Colombia. She has always gravitated to Hispanic friends.

...and my daughter's boyfriend is from Bolivia. He was left there alone for his entire childhood, sometimes in an orphanage and sometimes with relatives. He is now a heroin addict. I did not say I was judging his mother, but I will say that his loss of her traumatized him. He adores her and would never allow anyone to say a disparaging word against her (nor would I have any inclination to do so). But I believe he was adversely affected by her loss. I also believe his addiction is due to the trauma of that loss. And I am sure he is going to die from it. He has overdosed in my house and in my father's car.
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Good grief! I’m my “cleaning woman”, but I understand what @nala is saying here. How we digress :oops2:
 
Hi,

At least one difference from the mother who eaves her child in her native country is that child is prepared for the mothers departure, is staying with relatives, and gets money and phone calls from mom. A child is not wrenched from a mothers arms or care without warning. As in all things they may or may not be damaged. I actually worry about the physical harm that may come to these kids.

Annette
 
I apologize @AGBF My comment was uncalled for.
 
Bonfire said:
I apologize @AGBF My comment was uncalled for.
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Thank you, but that did not bother me at all, Bonfire. This is a diamond forum, after all. It's not as if I started to talk about having a cleaning woman while I was at work as a social worker or volunteering at a soup kitchen! People here post about all kinds of things I cannot afford like BMWs and Mercedes Benzes. And Cartier watches. I drive a Jeep and wear a Timex.

I appreciated what nala wrote, too.

Deb :wavey:
 
nala said:
My comment was a general one. Not aimed at you. I’m sorry you took it that way.
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No harm, no foul. Thanks, nala. :wavey:
 
Trump is supposed to sign an executive order to end separating children from their parents at the border. He is not ending his zero tolerance policy

I saw an interview with a NYT report who is outside one of the shelters small children are being taken. People working inside told him these children are in crises due to being separated from their families. Some of these children who were verbal when they were taken into custody are no longer talking. Many small children are suffering from panic attacks, they can’t sleep. Some of these children have not seen their parents for 28 days.
 
And so, Steve Schmidt quit the Republican Party and called for a blue wave in the 2018 midterm elections. (I always liked him.)

"'This child separation policy is connected to the worst abuses of humanity in our history,' Mr. Schmidt said, reflecting the larger outpouring ofanger over the administration’s zero-tolerance policy, which has included immigrants seeking asylum.

'It is connected by the same evil that separated families during slavery and dislocated tribes and broke up Native American families,' Mr. Schmidt said. 'It is immoral and must be repudiated.'

He also accused several officials of being 'complicit' in enabling the president’s policies, including Kirstjen Nielsen, the secretary of homeland security, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and House Speaker Paul D. Ryan.

Save for a few governors, he said, the Republican Party is now filled with 'feckless cowards.' He said that the few who deserved to be spared that label included Govs. Charlie Baker of Massachusetts, Larry Hogan of Maryland and John Kasich of Ohio.

As a result, Mr. Schmidt called for a Democratic wave in the midterms, describing that party as the only one remaining 'that stands for what is right and decent.'"



https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/20/us/politics/party-of-trump-steve-schmidt.html
 
AGBF said:
And so, Steve Schmidt quit the Republican Party and called for a blue wave in the 2018 midterm elections. (I always liked him.)

"'This child separation policy is connected to the worst abuses of humanity in our history,' Mr. Schmidt said, reflecting the larger outpouring ofanger over the administration’s zero-tolerance policy, which has included immigrants seeking asylum.

'It is connected by the same evil that separated families during slavery and dislocated tribes and broke up Native American families,' Mr. Schmidt said. 'It is immoral and must be repudiated.'

He also accused several officials of being 'complicit' in enabling the president’s policies, including Kirstjen Nielsen, the secretary of homeland security, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and House Speaker Paul D. Ryan.

Save for a few governors, he said, the Republican Party is now filled with 'feckless cowards.' He said that the few who deserved to be spared that label included Govs. Charlie Baker of Massachusetts, Larry Hogan of Maryland and John Kasich of Ohio.

As a result, Mr. Schmidt called for a Democratic wave in the midterms, describing that party as the only one remaining 'that stands for what is right and decent.'"



https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/20/us/politics/party-of-trump-steve-schmidt.html
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I live in Mass. I love Charlie Baker.
 
  1. Now Ivanka decides to tweet. Princess Complict has been quiet for days and now is tweeting like her father is wonderful. She works for this administration. Why was she not going to the border to see what was happening there? Why was she not speaking out against this horrible policy?
 
https://www.npr.org/2018/06/20/6217...gration-votes-amid-doubts-that-bills-can-pass
President Trump signed an executive order on Wednesday to end his controversial policy that has resulted in thousands of family separations and brought criticism from Democrats and Republicans.
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Trump's decision to reverse course comes despite the fact that administration officials have insisted for days that only Congress could fix the problem.
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Don't let Trump sweep this one under the rug. Remember to vote his Republican enablers out of office in the midterms!
 
It’s very predictable,
He had to bow down because of the outcry, but of course blames everyone else. He will hold deep resentment for this.
 
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Calliecake said:
@redwood66 I can’t agree with you that congress needs to fix this when Trump could have ended this the day it started. This policy was made by Miller, Trump and Kelly for the sole purpose of torturing these families.

Trump will NEVER admit he was wrong. He is responsible for the zero tolerance policy. He has been chipping away bit by bit everything our country stands for. We’ve all watched him degrade a war prisioner, gold star families, women, blacks, mexicans, EVERYONE who isn’t a white male. We all watched What happened in Charlottesville. Separating these families is just his the next powerful step. The Republican Party has backed Trump the entire way. None of them have the backbone to stand up to him even when he is torturing children.

Past presidents (Bush included) would never have acted like this. The Republican Party is now the Trump Party. Every decent Republican I know of has left the Republican Party. Or as the put it, the Republican Party has left them.

I’m way to emotional about this subject and I won’t back down. Everyone of these children and their families may develop PTSD. They probably won’t be able to get proper mental health care to treat it. Republicans should be ashamed of themselves. Quit blaming the democrats for what your party has done to these families when your party is control of all branches of government. If they are silent, they are complict.

Drop this policy and then sit at a table with republicans and democrats to come up with humane solutions to fix the immigration problems.
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My post is talking about immigration as a whole, not this new policy to charge every illegal border crosser. I never asked or demanded that you back down. My posts reflect my opinion only and I don't require that you agree with them. I will continue to blame all Congresses and all presidents for failing to address immigration. They can fix it for good if they had the political will.
 
Here's an interesting take on what's been going on:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BkQvXWkHqsU/

A family concentration camp is still a concentration camp.

In my freshman political science seminar, we learned about a concept called the Overton Window. The #OvertonWindow holds all ideas that are considered normal. Agreeable. Acceptable. The further outside of the window you go, to the left or right, the ideas get more radical. Extreme. Unthinkable.

Everyone from political strategists to real estate agents-like y’alls president-is obsessed with the idea of moving the window-so that the things they really want to happen no longer seem extreme.

How do you move the #OvertonWindow? You suggest something so far to the extreme, that the slightly less extreme alternative suddenly seems more acceptable to the public.

Moving the Overton Window can be used for good: Malcolm X intentionally presented himself as an extremist in certain respects, so white moderates would accept Dr. King as the reasonable one, even though they didn’t want to.

But there is a very real possibility, perhaps a probability, that this administration has been moving the Overton Window since they started campaigning. All of the tweets, the rallies, the antics, the previously unthinkable behaviors are the extreme. Now? A tax cut that hurts the poor and middle class, moves against health care, and yes, detention centers that keep families together-are suddenly thought to be preferable alternatives.

Lying and Gaslighting are tools of this strategy: Sec. Nielsen telling us that the administration’s policy was not actually to separate the families we watched them separate with our own eyes.

So is distraction: tweets on tweets on tweets, calling this TV star a failure and that dictator short and fat.

THIS IS THE TRICK OF THE ENEMY. DO NOT FALL FOR IT.

The executive order signed to keep families together STILL upholds a Zero Tolerance policy that destroys people seeking a better life, fleeing harm and persecution. A FAMILY concentration camp is STILL a concentration camp. #Trump did not end his Zero Tolerance policy-he merely moved the window, from the most extreme to slightly less.

STAY WOKE. KEEP FIGHTING.
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