To Foie Gras ... OR ... Not To Foie Gras???

[diamondfan]

I just do not like any liver at all. But I do eat meat, including veal, which is not treated that well either, so I really feel in a bind. I do not think it is nice what they do, and do not eat it, but do not like the idea of someone else deciding what I can order in a restaurant. I used to joke to my sister in law who at times has been a pretty vocal vegetarian...that how did we know the veggies don''t scream in pain when pulled from the ground or picked off a tree?

But I guess I will defend someone else''s right to order it...I guess things fall on a continuum and this is still within the acceptable realm to some.

 

[monarch64]

Date: 8/14/2006 11:13:40 PM
Author: diamondfan
I just do not like any liver at all. But I do eat meat, including veal, which is not treated that well either, so I really feel in a bind. I do not think it is nice what they do, and do not eat it, but do not like the idea of someone else deciding what I can order in a restaurant. I used to joke to my sister in law who at times has been a pretty vocal vegetarian...that how did we know the veggies don't scream in pain when pulled from the ground or picked off a tree?

But I guess I will defend someone else's right to order it...I guess things fall on a continuum and this is still within the acceptable realm to some.

Hee hee, diamondfan, there are actually people who follow that logic with their diet--they're called "fruitarians" and don't eat anything except the fruit from a plant. (Think tomatoes, oranges, cucumbers, etc.) I'm totally not making fun of fruitarians, but it's funny to me, as a vegetarian, when people, especially meat eaters, make that argument. I would've said the same thing prior to making the switch a year ago to not eating meat. You're right...there is a continuum of diets in this world, and just like religion (to me) what gives anyone the right to judge someone's character based on diet or personal preferences? Being a vegetarian has brought me tons of grief, but I will never, ever, tell a meat eater that he/she is wrong and that their choices are not as good as mine. Choosing what you eat is a very personal decision, especially when one is educated about how your food gets to be on your plate. Some people choose not to educate themselves, some do, some never ever think about it, bottom line is, just like religion and politics and healthcare, I believe we all have the right to decide for ourselves what we want to do/eat/say/believe in our lifetimes. It is basically a question of what you are willing to put up with in life. I do believe that every person has a right to know exactly what happens to the food on their plate from beginning to end, though. But like health care, you are your own best advocate, and it's up to each individual if they care enough to find out. The big businesses of dairy, meat, etc. aren't going to do it for you, just like the tobacco business didn't.

ETA: Oh, and diamondfan my opinions are in no way aimed at you. I was just expanding on your point, hope you don't mind?! I certainly don't mean any offense in this thread, and I hope I've conveyed that with my posts.

 

[Kaleigh]

Monarch, I hear what you are saying. Now since you grew up on a farm is eating chicken bad too?? I mean they must suffer as well. I am so confused on all this. I do love a good steak now and then but mostly we eat chicken. So much so I could cluck. Just kidding, want to know the truth. Then what''s left?? Fish suffer the pain from the hook in their mouth or swimming into a net and then die on the fishing boat. No easy answers, just trying to understand, thanks.

Lisa

 

[diamondfan]

No offense taken at all! I applaud you for being a vegetarian. I know it is not easy to deal with the flack, and I frankly think it is really healthier if you know how to combine your foods to get the proper mix of nutrients. I love ALL veggies and fruits, and love grains, but sadly I also love meat and cheese and some fish too. I think I am pretty healthy overall but have quite a sweet tooth. I think what bothers me most the ignorance of some people, esp, in terms of what they put into themselves. There is a theory of garbage in, garbage out. I am not tyring to sound preachy and I love junk food too sometimes...Certainly people who do eat meat, like me, can be savvy about the food they do eat. I find that sometimes people who eat so much junk and crap and are not healthy (not a weight comment, but a health one)..they wonder why they feel badly most of the time. I never saw Supersize Me but have been meaning to, the guy said after a month his organs were impacted and he felt awful. Of course he was doing something extreme to make a point but still...I understand for some socioeconomic levels, higher quality food is more expensive and less available, but I learned that even some flash frozen veggies, egg whites and canned fruit in juice are easily gotten for the most part...replacing some of the fattier and more refined foods with these items can make such a difference. I do like wine, and love dessert and stuff, but I try to limit my portions and choose well. And I do not eat that all of the time. So, if someone loves foie gras and wants to get it, I support it, but just think we could all benefit from a little knowledge about what we are putting in our bodies.

 

[monarch64]

Date: 8/14/2006 11:53:35 PM
Author: Kaleigh
Monarch, I hear what you are saying. Now since you grew up on a farm is eating chicken bad too?? I mean they must suffer as well. I am so confused on all this. I do love a good steak now and then but mostly we eat chicken. So much so I could cluck. Just kidding, want to know the truth. Then what''s left?? Fish suffer the pain from the hook in their mouth or swimming into a net and then die on the fishing boat. No easy answers, just trying to understand, thanks.

Lisa

Hi Lisa! I hope I''m not causing you to think I''m a total freak, here. When I first posted on this thread, I definitely had no intentions of turning anyone off, or making this about "don''t eat meat", lol! But to answer you questions as best I can: of course chickens suffer. If you think about it, they are mammals/living beings just like us humans, and they do feel pain, and of course they fear death. Fish? well, depends on who you talk to and who is in what mindset. I will not try to make an argument towards whether fish feel pain, or are social, or whatever. There are studies which point toward fish having social tendencies, feeling pain, etc. But, my not eating fish has more to do with what we have polluted the water with, even though I care about cold-blooded species feeling pain and being social. I really don''t want to crap my system up with mercury, and other toxins, because I want to indulge in some caviar or whatever fresh or salt water fish is in vogue at the moment. Of course fish suffer...if you''ve ever been fishing, or seen a fish gasp for its last breath, it''s kind of a sad thing. I remember watching my father fillet a mama catfish who was pregnant when I was a little girl...he was sad himself when he found eggs inside her and I don''t even know what he did with the carcass, but I know we didn''t eat it. I used to hate even baiting a hook with an earthworm/nightcrawler (as they were called) because I knew I was killing a living being without necessity. I guess growing up not needing to hunt, farm, or fish was my downfall. My family back home, and my husband, and my friends, certainly don''t understand my viewpoint. But I just don''t like the taste of meat, period, so why should I consume it? Seems wasteful to me, I guess.

You''re right, Lisa, there are no easy answers. Again, I refuse to place judgment on anyone who eats meat. That definitely goes against my most basic value that each of us has the right to choose what we do on this Earth, and that I am SO not here to judge anyone. It is my choice, period, to do what I feel is right for me, and far be it for me to tell someone else they are wrong in their beliefs. I hope I sort of answered your questions, I know I probably got a little carried away, but the hour is late and my tired mind let me ramble, lol!

Take care!

 

[monarch64]

Date: 8/14/2006 11:54:10 PM
Author: diamondfan
No offense taken at all! I applaud you for being a vegetarian. I know it is not easy to deal with the flack, and I frankly think it is really healthier if you know how to combine your foods to get the proper mix of nutrients. I love ALL veggies and fruits, and love grains, but sadly I also love meat and cheese and some fish too. I think I am pretty healthy overall but have quite a sweet tooth. I think what bothers me most the ignorance of some people, esp, in terms of what they put into themselves. There is a theory of garbage in, garbage out. I am not tyring to sound preachy and I love junk food too sometimes...Certainly people who do eat meat, like me, can be savvy about the food they do eat. I find that sometimes people who eat so much junk and crap and are not healthy (not a weight comment, but a health one)..they wonder why they feel badly most of the time. I never saw Supersize Me but have been meaning to, the guy said after a month his organs were impacted and he felt awful. Of course he was doing something extreme to make a point but still...I understand for some socioeconomic levels, higher quality food is more expensive and less available, but I learned that even some flash frozen veggies, egg whites and canned fruit in juice are easily gotten for the most part...replacing some of the fattier and more refined foods with these items can make such a difference. I do like wine, and love dessert and stuff, but I try to limit my portions and choose well. And I do not eat that all of the time. So, if someone loves foie gras and wants to get it, I support it, but just think we could all benefit from a little knowledge about what we are putting in our bodies.

Oh Diamondfan, I think you hit the nail on the head with that last sentence! Education is key, no matter what you choose to eat. I really have no problem with anyone''s choices in life, as long as they are making educated choices and are not ignorant to what''s healthiest for humans. Your whole post was very spot on, in fact. Of course it isn''t easy to feed a family without doing some processed foods when you are living paycheck-to-paycheck, like the majority of the working class is. Even in my household, without kids, and a double income, it is easier for me to buy things frozen that I know DH will like, or canned things that he was used to and loved growing up when his mom was working! For many people, I know there is no question in making a lifestyle change because money is a factor. For others, such as those who earn enough to eat delicacies like caviar or foie gras, it really is a choice, though. And you know what? That absolutely IS their choice, and I would never take that away from them. I have no intention of changing the world, or PS, or anything...I just felt free (as always) to state my opinion. Thank you all for listening, and thanks diamondfan also for your comments.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 8/15/2006 12:55:57 AM
Author: monarch64

Date: 8/14/2006 11:53:35 PM
Author: Kaleigh
Monarch, I hear what you are saying. Now since you grew up on a farm is eating chicken bad too?? I mean they must suffer as well. I am so confused on all this. I do love a good steak now and then but mostly we eat chicken. So much so I could cluck. Just kidding, want to know the truth. Then what''s left?? Fish suffer the pain from the hook in their mouth or swimming into a net and then die on the fishing boat. No easy answers, just trying to understand, thanks.

Lisa

Hi Lisa! I hope I''m not causing you to think I''m a total freak, here. When I first posted on this thread, I definitely had no intentions of turning anyone off, or making this about ''don''t eat meat'', lol! But to answer you questions as best I can: of course chickens suffer. If you think about it, they are mammals/living beings just like us humans, and they do feel pain, and of course they fear death. Fish? well, depends on who you talk to and who is in what mindset. I will not try to make an argument towards whether fish feel pain, or are social, or whatever. There are studies which point toward fish having social tendencies, feeling pain, etc. But, my not eating fish has more to do with what we have polluted the water with, even though I care about cold-blooded species feeling pain and being social. I really don''t want to crap my system up with mercury, and other toxins, because I want to indulge in some caviar or whatever fresh or salt water fish is in vogue at the moment. Of course fish suffer...if you''ve ever been fishing, or seen a fish gasp for its last breath, it''s kind of a sad thing. I remember watching my father fillet a mama catfish who was pregnant when I was a little girl...he was sad himself when he found eggs inside her and I don''t even know what he did with the carcass, but I know we didn''t eat it. I used to hate even baiting a hook with an earthworm/nightcrawler (as they were called) because I knew I was killing a living being without necessity. I guess growing up not needing to hunt, farm, or fish was my downfall. My family back home, and my husband, and my friends, certainly don''t understand my viewpoint. But I just don''t like the taste of meat, period, so why should I consume it? Seems wasteful to me, I guess.

You''re right, Lisa, there are no easy answers. Again, I refuse to place judgment on anyone who eats meat. That definitely goes against my most basic value that each of us has the right to choose what we do on this Earth, and that I am SO not here to judge anyone. It is my choice, period, to do what I feel is right for me, and far be it for me to tell someone else they are wrong in their beliefs. I hope I sort of answered your questions, I know I probably got a little carried away, but the hour is late and my tired mind let me ramble, lol!

Take care!

I would never think you are a freak, you just opened my eyes a bit. So I thank you for that. As far as fish go, the mercury is a big problem. We used to eat blue fish that we caught on Nantucket, but the mercury levels are too high now. All in all this thread is a good thing, ( now I sound like Martha Stewart) makes you think.

Everyone can make their own choices and be informed. I for one believe strongly that we need to make our own decisions without anyone telling us what we can eat and what we can''t. But you definitley made me more aware, and that is great.

 

[rainbowtrout]

Bit random (haha RainbowTrout being random, what else is new

) ---but on fish:

I love deep-sea fishing, but I've basically stopped because I feel that the fish populations are plummeting so much it frightens me. Also, I found out that the average large cold-water fish is something like 60 to 80 years old. I just can't bring myself to kill something for dinner that's taken so long to grow and is older than I am...

I had an experiance similar to Monarch's once where this man caught a large shark he KNEW was pregnant and cut her open and killed the babies and then threw the shark's carcass overboard. Just waste. You want to eat shark, fine. Catch a juvenile male.

While I am iffy on foie gras, I DO support extensive fishing bans with compensation givin to fishermen put out of a job. We need our oceans...


I'm more an environmentalist and a sustainable girl than a moral vegetarian--not saying one is better or worse, that's just how I lean.


Monarch: thank you for your opinions! I was hoping a vegitarian would jump in. I cannot stand the way chickens are treated on factory farms...eugh. Also, sorry if I sounded pretentious about the deer. I haven't been writing excessively clearly lately and I think I can come off sounding a little confused.

 

[littlelysser]

I actually really like foie gras, but I support a ban on it...if the animals are treated inhumanely.

 

[codex57]

I think the stuff tastes nasty. But, I also know peoples'' tastebuds are all different.

I really don''t know if there''s a "humane" way to kill an animal for food. I''ve never been killed myself so I haven''t been able to experience all the various methods. So, it''s half conjecture and half "if you don''t like it, come up with a better method".

I find animals tasty and our bodies were clearly designed to eat meat as well. So, I''m all for eating animals. Foi gras is made with some pretty nasty methods, but so is boiling a lobster/turtle/other creature live, smoking (sucking a poison and other crap into your lungs), fast food (all sorts of nasty stuff in there, and yes, I do eat it). It''s like, where do you draw the line? I figure we''ve got better things to worry about than whether some fussy people want to eat the body part of an animal that filters the crap in the animals'' bodies.

 

[Mara]

those are kind of my thoughts codex...re: animals like us eating meat...there's a reason we have the set of teeth we do, we are meat eaters. we are at the top of the food chain (for now), and i don't think there is anything wrong with eating other animals, they would eat us if they had to, that is what our old old ancestors did of course. i don't like the thought of killing animals for sport aka hunting and not planning to eat or eating what you kill. yes it would be fabulous if every animal that we ate was killed humanely...which i think much of the trade seems to be moving more towards which is great, but i think everyone just has their own comfort level with certain types of meat. we eat beef and chicken all the time and we eat a lot of fish...which i am kind of torn on because of the mercury levels and also i don't like the thought of eating fish when certain ones are in danger of extinction or similar...but i really love certain types of fish and i know it's good for our bodies. i am totally not into certain things just because they sound gross, aka veal or foie gras or sweetbreads...but not because i feel like people shouldn't be eating them. i just don't find those items particularly appealing to put into my body. but as for meat or no meat or veggies or not...everyone does their own thing and what makes them feel good and that's what's important IMO.

 

[canuk-gal]

Hi:

There have been "issues" elsewhere (Europe) surrounding foie gras; banned in places due to the avian flu threats....

cheers--Sharon

 

[CaptAubrey]

Without foie gras, one cannot make tournedos rossini. That alone militates against a ban, in my book.

 

[Logan Sapphire]

I would support a ban on it, but then again, I''m a life-long vegetarian.

 

[mepearl53]

Well I have never tried the stuff but my dog Nick has (see avatar) We have lots of Canadian geese around our house and when we take him for his walks he always tries and sometimes succeeds in grabbing the you know what. But, I don''t really think it''s foie gras

 

[Sparkster]

Date: 8/14/2006 11:13:40 PM
Author: diamondfan
I just do not like any liver at all. But I do eat meat, including veal, which is not treated that well either, so I really feel in a bind. I do not think it is nice what they do, and do not eat it, but do not like the idea of someone else deciding what I can order in a restaurant. I used to joke to my sister in law who at times has been a pretty vocal vegetarian...that how did we know the veggies don't scream in pain when pulled from the ground or picked off a tree?

But I guess I will defend someone else's right to order it...I guess things fall on a continuum and this is still within the acceptable realm to some.

That reminds me of a scene from the movie Notting Hill when Hugh Grant's 'date' reveals she is a fruitarian and only eats fruit that has fallen off a tree. She believes that picking fruit is murder.

I don't care if someone is a vegetarian or a meat eater - it's their choice. I don't feel the need to defend my choice as being a meat eater nor defend a person's choice to become a vegetarian - but I will defend their right to choose.

What really irks me is though are people who calls themselves a vegetarian but still eats fish and chicken - HELLO are fish and chicken not MEAT! Everytime a person tells me they are a vege I ask them if they eat fish/chicken and if they say they do - I go 'then you're not a vegetarian, are you?'

 

[diamondfan]

I agree that one is within her/his right to chose, just have the information at hand. I also love people who say they are vegatarians but eat live things. I usually say if they do say they eat fish and chicken that they are not red meat eaters but cannot trylu be a vegetarian if they eat fish or poutry. Seems they eat fish and poultry and not red meat more for health reasons than political ones. I also learned that a true vegetarian often does not even eat cheese unless it is renetless, since renet, used in some cheese making, comes from the lining of the cow''s stonach. I think we are carnivores evolutionarily, there is nothing wrong with meat, and as long as we are not killing for the heck of it, I am not against people eating animals if they wish to. I have vegan friends, ovo lacto vegetarian friends, friends who do macribiotic and non cooked food...as long as we can all hang out and enjoy each other, that is great! I just hate when someone screams at me for eating a steak when they are wearing leather shoes etc...hypocrisy bothers me more than someone''s reasonable and informed choices.

 

[Logan Sapphire]

Date: 8/15/2006 6:56:27 PM
Author: Sparkster

What really irks me is though are people who calls themselves a vegetarian but still eats fish and chicken - HELLO are fish and chicken not MEAT! Everytime a person tells me they are a vege I ask them if they eat fish/chicken and if they say they do - I go ''then you''re not a vegetarian, are you?''

This is my big pet peeve actually too. I don''t care if you eat fish or poultry, but just don''t call yourself a vegetarian. It confuses people and when I go to a restaurant and ask for something vegetarian, they bring me fish or something made with meat broth

. I also don''t eat anything with gelatin, since that comes from horse hooves, so that means no Skittles, marshmallows, most jelly beans, etc.

 

[monarch64]

Date: 8/15/2006 7:13:59 PM
Author: diamondfan
I agree that one is within her/his right to chose, just have the information at hand. I also love people who say they are vegatarians but eat live things. I usually say if they do say they eat fish and chicken that they are not red meat eaters but cannot trylu be a vegetarian if they eat fish or poutry. Seems they eat fish and poultry and not red meat more for health reasons than political ones. I also learned that a true vegetarian often does not even eat cheese unless it is renetless, since renet, used in some cheese making, comes from the lining of the cow''s stonach. I think we are carnivores evolutionarily, there is nothing wrong with meat, and as long as we are not killing for the heck of it, I am not against people eating animals if they wish to. I have vegan friends, ovo lacto vegetarian friends, friends who do macribiotic and non cooked food...as long as we can all hang out and enjoy each other, that is great! I just hate when someone screams at me for eating a steak when they are wearing leather shoes etc...hypocrisy bothers me more than someone''s reasonable and informed choices.

Once again, you bring up some very good points, diamondfan!

When I was growing up, I just couldn''t stand meat or chicken or pork, but I would eat fish sticks for some reason. Also, I drank milk and ate Kraft processed cheese like crazy...I certainly was a lacto-ovo vegetarian but didn''t even know why, except for the fact that I didn''t like meat. I used to compare it to taking a bite out of my own arm, lol! Since I made the complete switch to vegetarian last year, it''s been tough. If you eat any processed foods, like crackers, salad dressings, etc., they usually contain whey, or some dairy product. Also, even "Veggie Shreds" or veg. based cheeses usually have an ingredient called casein, which is a dairy derivative. I have to say I admire those who can stick to a vegan or other restrictive diet, as there are soooo many temptations you have to avoid.

On the leather thing: that is also a difficult issue for me. I will admit there are some items in my closet which are made of leather, like shoes and handbags that I''ve had for a few years. I have a hard time just giving expensive things like those away, but I find myself leaning more towards that as time goes by.

It''s been a slower transition for me than I would''ve liked, and a lot of it has to do with the flak I get from friends and family. Many times people are just curious, but there are plenty who get downright irate with me regarding my choices. One of my friends told me this past weekend that she and her DH had discussed my choice to go vegetarian, and that they thought it was "extravagant."

It honestly just rolls right off my back, I could care less if they eat meat and have told her that many times. So I figure, let her be judgmental, but I''m certainly not going to be that way towards her lifestyle.

 

[Gypsy]

I''ve eaten it. It tastes great. Would I support a bann? Yes. It''s horrible what they do to the geese. Haven''t eaten it since I found out.

 

[CaptAubrey]

Something else you can''t make without foie gras: the warm salad.

 

[diamondfan]

I had fights with my sister in law in which, as we sat at a restaurant and I ordered meat, she would start to scream at me..."That was alive! It has a face, how can you eat it?!" etc...while she was carrying a leather purse, wearing a leather jacket and shoes or belt...I asked her if she supposed that the cow that was used for her accessories happened to die of natural causes outside the clothing factory? I said that as long as most of the animal is used, for food and whatnot, and humane practices are used (hard to determine I know) I was okay with it. Remember all the flak about Colonel Sanders and how he was cruel to his poultry? Also, this why lobsters are put in the water head first, to minimize suffering...(still is not pleasant in the scheme of things!)...Indians would kill animals to eat and to use the bones and skin etc...I am totally against hunting for sport and the time I went fishing with my hubby I insisted he throw back anything he caught, and I was upset because of the hook, but at least the fish lived to swim another day hopefully! (If that were a source of food for my kids I would feel differently but it was not so I just wanted the fish back in the water...) It can become very heated and people get very defensive, think you are judging them even if you arenot. I applaud anyone who can forego meat and still eat balanced meals. I htink it is much healthier for our insides in the long run, as long as you get the proteins and iron and such that our bodies need. I just want to be able sit at a table without the other person making faces and remarks about what is on my plate...live and let eat! And, some people just do not like the taste, it really is not about the background behind it. Bottom line, let me eat what I feel comfortable eating and I will totally respect your right to do the same!

 

[monarch64]

Date: 8/15/2006 11:33:24 PM
Author: diamondfan
I had fights with my sister in law in which, as we sat at a restaurant and I ordered meat, she would start to scream at me...''That was alive! It has a face, how can you eat it?!'' etc...while she was carrying a leather purse, wearing a leather jacket and shoes or belt...I asked her if she supposed that the cow that was used for her accessories happened to die of natural causes outside the clothing factory? I said that as long as most of the animal is used, for food and whatnot, and humane practices are used (hard to determine I know) I was okay with it. Remember all the flak about Colonel Sanders and how he was cruel to his poultry? Also, this why lobsters are put in the water head first, to minimize suffering...(still is not pleasant in the scheme of things!)...Indians would kill animals to eat and to use the bones and skin etc...I am totally against hunting for sport and the time I went fishing with my hubby I insisted he throw back anything he caught, and I was upset because of the hook, but at least the fish lived to swim another day hopefully! (If that were a source of food for my kids I would feel differently but it was not so I just wanted the fish back in the water...) It can become very heated and people get very defensive, think you are judging them even if you arenot. I applaud anyone who can forego meat and still eat balanced meals. I htink it is much healthier for our insides in the long run, as long as you get the proteins and iron and such that our bodies need. I just want to be able sit at a table without the other person making faces and remarks about what is on my plate...live and let eat! And, some people just do not like the taste, it really is not about the background behind it. Bottom line, let me eat what I feel comfortable eating and I will totally respect your right to do the same!

Diamondfan, I am so sorry to hear that your sil felt it necessary to carry on in such a way with you! Her behavior/hypocrisy pretty much give vegetarians/vegans, etc. a bad name and connotation! Yikes!

I''ve researched omnivorous ,herbivourous, and carnivourous diets until I couldn''t take any more. I feel like I am familiar with most of the issues on both sides. For me, giving up meat and hopefully dairy sometime soon has been a very personal issue. Not an issue that I identify with or relate with on a political level at all. There is a propensity towards colon cancer in y immediate family, unfortunately, and I''ve done extensive research on ways to avoid it. One is to abstain from alcohol, which I have a tough time with (DH and I love to socialize over cocktails 2-3 times a week--he is in sales which almost requires him to drink, and I often take part in p.m. social calls), and I am still dealing with the fact that my father didn''t come forward with his symptoms (althogh he KNEW becaue his own father had the same cancer) in time. My dad is now living with a permanent colostomy, has been through multiple, major surgeries to extend his life (after one he went into cardiac arrest for over 30 min. and we thought he was gone for the next 48 hours). There is nothing scarier than seeing a loved one hooked up to every tube conceivable and feeling totally helpless. You just stand there and try to hold that person''s hand and hope for the best. Thankfully, by some miracle, my dad came out of it, but since he was 63 at the time we had no idea what his brain function/capacity would be.

Slowly, he has gotten back to his everyday life, with lots of rest in between tasks. My mother is his sole caretaker, and she is 2 yr. younger than he. They''ve been married for a rocky 38 years, and boy, does she exhibit the patience of a saint.

My point in tellling you this is that I hve really personal reasons for not eating meat. First, I diddn''t like it as a child. It never became an "acquired" taste to me. Second, I have heard from so many doctors that I might face colon cancer one day, purely due to genetic factors. Third, when I ask what I can do to avoid colon cancer, I am told to abstain from alcohol and basically, animal products.. Fourth, even without the cancer thing, I still don''t find it ok, in this day an dage when so many other foods are available, to eat animal products. But I will say one last time, I will never judge those who feel differently, and say that you have a human right to choose what you put into your body.

 

[diamondfan]

I am sorry about your dad. I lost my dad (to liver cancer) 25 years ago and it is tough. I think you are so smart to consider that you have a pressing health issue to consider in your choices. Many people, even with family histories of heart disease, diabetes etc just do not make the connection (or do not want to) when it comes to what they eat and the consequences down the line. And I agree, I try not to judge, it is a personal decision like politics or religion. I happen to like meat, grew up eating it, and thus I eat it, though I try to eat more healthy cuts etc. If you plain do not like it anyway, and there are so many great options (I love tofu and grains and beans and stuff too), I say eat what you love. If there are health concerns behind it, so much the better. Just like knowing the signs of the illness and having colonoscopies when the doctor wants you to, diet and lifestyle are a huge part of prevention...not just with this, but with lots of things. I think having a healthy and good life quality is important, so I applaud you. (and a glass of red wine, by the way, is actually good for you and can help with heart issues, a major problem for women...I do not love hard liquor too much, maybe a cosmo or mojito or cuba libre here and there, but I do like red wine!)

 

[Sparkster]

Date: 8/16/2006 2:34:20 AM
Author: diamondfan
I am sorry about your dad. I lost my dad (to liver cancer) 25 years ago and it is tough. I think you are so smart to consider that you have a pressing health issue to consider in your choices. Many people, even with family histories of heart disease, diabetes etc just do not make the connection (or do not want to) when it comes to what they eat and the consequences down the line. And I agree, I try not to judge, it is a personal decision like politics or religion. I happen to like meat, grew up eating it, and thus I eat it, though I try to eat more healthy cuts etc. If you plain do not like it anyway, and there are so many great options (I love tofu and grains and beans and stuff too), I say eat what you love. If there are health concerns behind it, so much the better. Just like knowing the signs of the illness and having colonoscopies when the doctor wants you to, diet and lifestyle are a huge part of prevention...not just with this, but with lots of things. I think having a healthy and good life quality is important, so I applaud you. (and a glass of red wine, by the way, is actually good for you and can help with heart issues, a major problem for women...I do not love hard liquor too much, maybe a cosmo or mojito or cuba libre here and there, but I do like red wine!)

diamondfan - I also lost my father and aunt (dad''s sister) to liver cancer. I eat healthy foods and don''t indulge in too much junk. Don''t really like the taste of most alcohol so hardly ever drink any - I mainly drink water. Don''t eat too much red meat - being the daughter of poor chinese migrants, couldn''t afford it when growing up and grew up on vegies and cheaper meats such as chicken and pork. The habit of not eating lots of red meat has stuck with me into adulthood even though we can afford it now. My healthy choices have not got anything to do with ''health'' choices, but because I prefer the taste of healthier foods - although every now and then, I can''t resist a huge (and I mean HUGE!) bag of crisps. I don''t know if my eating/drinking habits will help in not getting liver cancer (or any other sorts). Who knows......

 

[fire&ice]

Hypocrisy - being a vegetarian and spraying your house 2x a year w/ pesticides. Not recylcing. You don''t want to eat meat - fine - but don''t polute my water/run off with your dopey pesticides - just because you don''t like ants. Or, treat your lawn w/ poisons to rid it of weeds, etc.

Sorry - that''s my soapbox.

 

[CaptAubrey]

Date: 8/16/2006 10:35:55 AM
Author: fire&ice
Hypocrisy - being a vegetarian and spraying your house 2x a year w/ pesticides. Not recylcing. You don''t want to eat meat - fine - but don''t polute my water/run off with your dopey pesticides - just because you don''t like ants. Or, treat your lawn w/ poisons to rid it of weeds, etc.

Neiighbor issues?

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 8/16/2006 11:38:42 AM
Author: CaptAubrey

Date: 8/16/2006 10:35:55 AM
Author: fire&ice
Hypocrisy - being a vegetarian and spraying your house 2x a year w/ pesticides. Not recylcing. You don''t want to eat meat - fine - but don''t polute my water/run off with your dopey pesticides - just because you don''t like ants. Or, treat your lawn w/ poisons to rid it of weeds, etc.

Neiighbor issues?

Fortunately -not anymore.

 

[Gypsy]

My closest friend is a vegetarian and she was in Central America-- first few times she ordered something ''vegetarian'' it had either fish or chicken in it. She and her family are okay with ''bi-products'' leather and whatnot because those things can be obtained from animals that have died of natural causes-- just stating the logic... not judging in anyway. They are also ovo dairy friendly. She basically just avoids meat, chicken, fish. But will eat something cooked with meat-- like if I cook a stew she''ll eat everything but the meat-- it''s not her preference, mind you... but she has done it before.

 

[divergrrl]

ewww...

but then I do not care for organ meats, sweetbreads (those are glands I think!! not bread! ugh), etc.


Yeah, if you are going to ban something, lets get the growth hormones and antibiotics out of our meats & dairy.

I swear, I rarely buy meat anymore -- because organic is so expensive. But its worth it. I''m glad I live in an area where Natural Grocery stores are the norm, they are building one on my walking route by my house. yay! I get creeped out by meat & dairy these days.

there''s a reason girls are hitting puberty much earlier these days.


Jeannine