VT Student Adds Stone for Gunman

[RoseAngel04]

http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a/student-adds-memorial-stone-for-gunman/20070426115109990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001

The above article explains that a senior at Virginia Tech placed a 33rd stone in rememberance of the gunman who took 32 lives.

Thoughts??

 

[strmrdr]

tought one, but it feels wrong to do so too me.

 

[Harriet]

I don't count him as one of the dead. Don't get me wrong -- I'm not blaming his family.

 

[sparkel]

I am going to say something unpopular here that will likely get me flamed but here goes.... in the end the gunman killed himself too and anybody who takes their own life is clearly hurting beyond anything we can understand. While his actions were clearly awful and have caused hardship that most of us cannot fathom part of the healing process for those left behind is often forgiveness.

By placing that stone that student was recognizing that the student who killed himself and so many others was not a rational person and is in effect allowing themself the opportunity to move past the hatred. By continuing to hold those negative feelings we are in effect carrying on the hate that was started.

Like I said this is most likely a very unpopular opinion but I think it takes a pretty big person to see beyond their grief and forgive somebody who has wronged so many people.

My thoughts and prayers go out to everyone who was impacted by this horrible tragedy.

 

[Harriet]

I see your side too.

 

[poptart]

Date: 4/26/2007 8:33:34 PM
Author: sparkel
I am going to say something unpopular here that will likely get me flamed but here goes.... in the end the gunman killed himself too and anybody who takes their own life is clearly hurting beyond anything we can understand. While his actions were clearly awful and have caused hardship that most of us cannot fathom part of the healing process for those left behind is often forgiveness.


By placing that stone that student was recognizing that the student who killed himself and so many others was not a rational person and is in effect allowing themself the opportunity to move past the hatred. By continuing to hold those negative feelings we are in effect carrying on the hate that was started.


Like I said this is most likely a very unpopular opinion but I think it takes a pretty big person to see beyond their grief and forgive somebody who has wronged so many people.


My thoughts and prayers go out to everyone who was impacted by this horrible tragedy.

I agree with you completely sparkel. I didn't say anything earlier because there is no gentle way to say something like this, especially considering so many people, even some on this forum, lost a friend or loved one. I don't think he was evil, I think his actions were evil, but they were coming from the mind of someone who had severe mental issues. Fighting hate with hate (even if it is justified) does not alleviate the pain, hurt, anger, or loss that people feel. It just perpetuates negativity. I think that student was very open minded and very brave to include the gunman among the stones, and I hope that some people can see her point in the issue, too, especially since she is also a part of the VT community.

*M*

 

[sparkel]

Poptart

I think you summed up what I was trying to say more effectively than I was able!

 

[diamondfan]

He caused this and killed himself. While I feel terrible that his family has to live knowing what he was and the tragedy he caused, I do not think he should be memorialized in any way. That is an honor, something that should be given to the victims, not the killer.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 4/26/2007 9:11:13 PM
Author: poptart

Date: 4/26/2007 8:33:34 PM
Author: sparkel
I am going to say something unpopular here that will likely get me flamed but here goes.... in the end the gunman killed himself too and anybody who takes their own life is clearly hurting beyond anything we can understand. While his actions were clearly awful and have caused hardship that most of us cannot fathom part of the healing process for those left behind is often forgiveness.


By placing that stone that student was recognizing that the student who killed himself and so many others was not a rational person and is in effect allowing themself the opportunity to move past the hatred. By continuing to hold those negative feelings we are in effect carrying on the hate that was started.


Like I said this is most likely a very unpopular opinion but I think it takes a pretty big person to see beyond their grief and forgive somebody who has wronged so many people.


My thoughts and prayers go out to everyone who was impacted by this horrible tragedy.

I agree with you completely sparkel. I didn''t say anything earlier because there is no gentle way to say something like this, especially considering so many people, even some on this forum, lost a friend or loved one. I don''t think he was evil, I think his actions were evil, but they were coming from the mind of someone who had severe mental issues. Fighting hate with hate (even if it is justified) does not alleviate the pain, hurt, anger, or loss that people feel. It just perpetuates negativity. I think that student was very open minded and very brave to include the gunman among the stones, and I hope that some people can see her point in the issue, too, especially since she is also a part of the VT community.

*M*

I guess I have to agree because as evil as the act itself was, the person was obviously very, very mentally ill.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 4/26/2007 10:18:12 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

Date: 4/26/2007 9:11:13 PM
Author: poptart

Date: 4/26/2007 8:33:34 PM
Author: sparkel
I am going to say something unpopular here that will likely get me flamed but here goes.... in the end the gunman killed himself too and anybody who takes their own life is clearly hurting beyond anything we can understand. While his actions were clearly awful and have caused hardship that most of us cannot fathom part of the healing process for those left behind is often forgiveness.


By placing that stone that student was recognizing that the student who killed himself and so many others was not a rational person and is in effect allowing themself the opportunity to move past the hatred. By continuing to hold those negative feelings we are in effect carrying on the hate that was started.


Like I said this is most likely a very unpopular opinion but I think it takes a pretty big person to see beyond their grief and forgive somebody who has wronged so many people.


My thoughts and prayers go out to everyone who was impacted by this horrible tragedy.

I agree with you completely sparkel. I didn''t say anything earlier because there is no gentle way to say something like this, especially considering so many people, even some on this forum, lost a friend or loved one. I don''t think he was evil, I think his actions were evil, but they were coming from the mind of someone who had severe mental issues. Fighting hate with hate (even if it is justified) does not alleviate the pain, hurt, anger, or loss that people feel. It just perpetuates negativity. I think that student was very open minded and very brave to include the gunman among the stones, and I hope that some people can see her point in the issue, too, especially since she is also a part of the VT community.

*M*

I guess I have to agree because as evil as the act itself was, the person was obviously very, very mentally ill.

I have to agree. It''s so hard since he did such an evil act. But hating him, doesn''t solve anything. You can hate what he did, that''s for sure. He was mentally ill, and filled with hate. I feel the student that placed a stone for the gunman did so, to start the healing process, or in a way to reach out to his family. My heart goes out to all those that lost a loved one, and those one PS who lost a friend.

And I feel very badly for the gunman''s parents and sister. From all I have heard they are just devastated.
The focus should be on bringing healing to those that are hurting and mourning. JMHO.

 

[RoseAngel04]

Date: 4/26/2007 10:48:13 PM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 4/26/2007 10:18:12 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

Date: 4/26/2007 9:11:13 PM
Author: poptart

Date: 4/26/2007 8:33:34 PM
Author: sparkel
I am going to say something unpopular here that will likely get me flamed but here goes.... in the end the gunman killed himself too and anybody who takes their own life is clearly hurting beyond anything we can understand. While his actions were clearly awful and have caused hardship that most of us cannot fathom part of the healing process for those left behind is often forgiveness.


By placing that stone that student was recognizing that the student who killed himself and so many others was not a rational person and is in effect allowing themself the opportunity to move past the hatred. By continuing to hold those negative feelings we are in effect carrying on the hate that was started.


Like I said this is most likely a very unpopular opinion but I think it takes a pretty big person to see beyond their grief and forgive somebody who has wronged so many people.


My thoughts and prayers go out to everyone who was impacted by this horrible tragedy.

I agree with you completely sparkel. I didn''t say anything earlier because there is no gentle way to say something like this, especially considering so many people, even some on this forum, lost a friend or loved one. I don''t think he was evil, I think his actions were evil, but they were coming from the mind of someone who had severe mental issues. Fighting hate with hate (even if it is justified) does not alleviate the pain, hurt, anger, or loss that people feel. It just perpetuates negativity. I think that student was very open minded and very brave to include the gunman among the stones, and I hope that some people can see her point in the issue, too, especially since she is also a part of the VT community.

*M*

I guess I have to agree because as evil as the act itself was, the person was obviously very, very mentally ill.

I have to agree. It''s so hard since he did such an evil act. But hating him, doesn''t solve anything. You can hate what he did, that''s for sure. He was mentally ill, and filled with hate. I feel the student that placed a stone for the gunman did so, to start the healing process, or in a way to reach out to his family. My heart goes out to all those that lost a loved one, and those one PS who lost a friend.

And I feel very badly for the gunman''s parents and sister. From all I have heard they are just devastated.
The focus should be on bringing healing to those that are hurting and mourning. JMHO.

I''m glad to read I''m not the only one who feels this way. I was beginning to think I''d be the only one on here who didn''t think that including a stone for the gunman was a wrongful act. What he did was horrible, but I agree that he must have been severely mentally ill and I''d imagine he had a tremendous amount of suffering within. I am not AT ALL saying his actions are justified or OK...it was a horrendous crime that affected so many including his own family. I feel for all of those who have suffered from this nightmare. IMO This is a big step towards healing for the students, faculty, and families who were touched by this incident.

 

[fire&ice]

I have mixed feelings. But, I completely agree with the VT admin. This memorial is the Student''s memorial. They should do as they see fit. The stone was placed. The stone was removed. The stone was placed back again. All actions of students. I wouldn''t be surprised if this happens again. And, the murderer''s stone does not symbolize forgiveness to many. It symbolizes that he has not destroyed them. They have recognized it and have moved on. The memorial seems to be very cathartic.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 4/27/2007 11:07:07 AM
Author: SanDiegoLady

Date: 4/26/2007 9:18:45 PM
Author: diamondfan
He caused this and killed himself. While I feel terrible that his family has to live knowing what he was and the tragedy he caused, I do not think he should be memorialized in any way. That is an honor, something that should be given to the victims, not the killer.

I completely agree DF.

Mental issues or not, I don''t care if he was a ''loner'', he had been a functioning member of the community/school & attending classes. The fact that there were problems with him before now that no one acted upon is a problem in itself. However, as a cops wife knowing hearing what I do on a regular basis, I don''t feel this beast should be recognized in any type of memorial.

As one who has been intimately affected by suicide myself, it''s an easy way out out, and more so I feel its fiercely selfish.

I''m really worn on the justification of criminals ''rights'' when the victims have even less and more specifically when they no longer have a voice because they are in the ground. Just ask Danielle Van Damm, or Lacey Peterson or Connor, or any one of the hundreds of other cases around the country or the world.. ''I''m sorry'' or ''he had issues'' doesn''t cut it. The whole entitlement that one can do whatever they want (murder, abuse, etc) to someone else because they ''are really angry inside and other people have it coming'' is sickening..

I understand the stone is VT''s way of moving forward, and for that I will respect them- it didn''t happen to me- however, personally I think its disrespectful of the people he murdered.

*eta.. I''m sorry if my comments offend anyone, anyone who knows me here of course realize it would never be my intent.

I am passionate about victims rights.. and because we are law enforcement.. I have a different pov about criminal activity.

I''m glad that everyone on PS can express their pov''s, I respect we each have our own. These just happen to be mine and I hope that its not held against me negatively..

I hear ya criminals have more rights than victims these days.
along with catch and release injustice system and the bad cops who are protected by the "good" ones the whole system is lost...
back on topic...
if the school had placed them then yea id be pissed but if the students did then that''s ok, not right but ok.

 

[oshinbreez]

I have mixed feelings about this too. I can see all the sides concerning placing the rock. But the shooter was also a victim...of society.

 

[poptart]

Date: 4/27/2007 12:05:21 PM
Author: oshinbreez
I have mixed feelings about this too. I can see all the sides concerning placing the rock. But the shooter was also a victim...of society.

Yes, he most surely was. Someone who is mentally ill is not very likely to seek treatment because they don''t think they are mentally ill. We often say on here that hindsight is 20/20, and that is true, but I honestly feel that it was the college''s responsibility to remove this person from campus after students repeatedly telling security that he was scaring them and he had to go in for a psych evaluation. Of course no one could have known what would happen, and dwelling in the past won''t change or fix anything, but we should take it as a serious warning of things to look for in the future.

And I don''t know the shooter''s thinking behind suicide, but in response to SDL''s post about suicide being selfish, as someone who has suffered from depression in the past, and went through my own suicidal thoughts, it is not an act of selfishness in the person''s mind. When you get to that point you honestly think you are helping the ones you love by killing yourself and lifting that burden for them. I understand that it IS a selfish act (now) but when someone feels that horribly about their life, the pain is so immense that there seems to be no way to fix it. SDL, I wasn''t offended, and I''m sorry that you have had those experiences in the past. It''s difficult to explain the thoughts behind a suicidal mind because it is SO irrational.

*M*

 

[oshinbreez]

Date: 4/27/2007 12:33:24 PM
Author: poptart

Date: 4/27/2007 12:05:21 PM

Author: oshinbreez

I have mixed feelings about this too. I can see all the sides concerning placing the rock. But the shooter was also a victim...of society.

Yes, he most surely was. Someone who is mentally ill is not very likely to seek treatment because they don''t think they are mentally ill. We often say on here that hindsight is 20/20, and that is true, but I honestly feel that it was the college''s responsibility to remove this person from campus after students repeatedly telling security that he was scaring them and he had to go in for a psych evaluation. Of course no one could have known what would happen, and dwelling in the past won''t change or fix anything, but we should take it as a serious warning of things to look for in the future.


And I don''t know the shooter''s thinking behind suicide, but in response to SDL''s post about suicide being selfish, as someone who has suffered from depression in the past, and went through my own suicidal thoughts, it is not an act of selfishness in the person''s mind. When you get to that point you honestly think you are helping the ones you love by killing yourself and lifting that burden for them. I understand that it IS a selfish act (now) but when someone feels that horribly about their life, the pain is so immense that there seems to be no way to fix it. SDL, I wasn''t offended, and I''m sorry that you have had those experiences in the past. It''s difficult to explain the thoughts behind a suicidal mind because it is SO irrational.


*M*

Poptart,

You hit the nail on the head. I''ve also had bouts of depression and suicidal thoughts. And I did think how it could lift a burden off of my loved ones if I just ended it all. BUT, then I realized that it wouldn''t lift a burden, it would create a new one. My nephew committed suicide a few years ago.

 

[fire&ice]

Nevermind. Fork, stick - DONE.

My sypathies lie with the VICTIMS. Certainly not with a homocidal maniac. Many people have mental illness. MANY don''t premeditate MASS murder of innocents.

 

[KimberlyH]

The memorial belongs to the Hokies'' community and they should do as they see fit. What Cho did is clearly wrong, but the memorial isn''t about right or wrong, it''s about healing.

 

[diamondfan]

I respect anyone on campus who wishes to heal and count him as a "victim" since he clearly was screaming for help for years and did not get it. And had he gotten it, this might have never occured. I just, personally, could not link the victims and him together, I mean, I could try to forgive because he was so ill and out of control, I could have compassion for his mental state, but just do not think I could have him in the same category as the victims. This is just such a tragedy all around, like 9-11 it forever will haunt and affect us...(even though school shootings are not new things nor was terrorism before 9-11 but the scope of these acts is so horrific it really does have lasting impact and repercussions)...but I truly do respect anyone who was able to see something or feel something I cannot/

 

[indecisive]

Honestly, there is not enough left in me to feel hate for him. I am so angry at him but I also really pity him. What a sad pathetic life he led... that someone could not have a friend at Tech is unbelievable. I have such respect for the Amish community that went to the shooter''s family right after their school shooting and forgave and offered help. That is true Christianity and I totally respect the person that put a stone out for him. Life is too precious to spend time on hate.

SDL wrote "... I think its disrespectful of the people he murdered"

I know you did not mean to offend but I don''t think it is fair to imply that anyone at VT would be disrespectful to our friends and community. Compassion and forgiveness have nothing to do with disrespect or lack of grief for those that are gone.

poptart wrote "We often say on here that hindsight is 20/20, and that is true, but I honestly feel that it was the college''s responsibility to remove this person from campus after students repeatedly telling security that he was scaring them and he had to go in for a psych evaluation."

I completely disagree with you. Students did not report to security that he was scaring them... they said he was annoying them. The University also would not be given any information about the psych evaluation because of privacy issues. Schools are there to teach everyone that is enrolled, even the strange or depressed. There is no way they could have known he was capable of this if even those closest to him, like his family, couldn''t have believed it. I would hate for people to not seek help for depression or mental health issues for fear of being kicked out of school. Many people at VT did try to help him and do what they could within the law but he was unwilling or unable at that point to take it. That does not mean it was the schools fault. But as F&I said... Done. I am proud of my school and I hope people do whatever they need to do to heal. We have some beautiful angels helping us in orange and maroon.

 

[poptart]

Date: 4/29/2007 11:48:38 PM
Author: indecisive
Honestly, there is not enough left in me to feel hate for him. I am so angry at him but I also really pity him. What a sad pathetic life he led... that someone could not have a friend at Tech is unbelievable. I have such respect for the Amish community that went to the shooter''s family right after their school shooting and forgave and offered help. That is true Christianity and I totally respect the person that put a stone out for him. Life is too precious to spend time on hate.


SDL wrote ''... I think its disrespectful of the people he murdered''


I know you did not mean to offend but I don''t think it is fair to imply that anyone at VT would be disrespectful to our friends and community. Compassion and forgiveness have nothing to do with disrespect or lack of grief for those that are gone.


poptart wrote ''We often say on here that hindsight is 20/20, and that is true, but I honestly feel that it was the college''s responsibility to remove this person from campus after students repeatedly telling security that he was scaring them and he had to go in for a psych evaluation.''


I completely disagree with you. Students did not report to security that he was scaring them... they said he was annoying them. The University also would not be given any information about the psych evaluation because of privacy issues. Schools are there to teach everyone that is enrolled, even the strange or depressed. There is no way they could have known he was capable of this if even those closest to him, like his family, couldn''t have believed it. I would hate for people to not seek help for depression or mental health issues for fear of being kicked out of school. Many people at VT did try to help him and do what they could within the law but he was unwilling or unable at that point to take it. That does not mean it was the schools fault. But as F&I said... Done. I am proud of my school and I hope people do whatever they need to do to heal. We have some beautiful angels helping us in orange and maroon.

Sorry if I offended you Indecisive. We had a student on campus who was recently kicked out of school due to many suspicious and almost threatening incidents, and I was honestly really glad that they did this. He is a friend of mine, but needs professional help. So that was the context I was thinking in, since that situation happened just last week. Hope that you are feeling better.

*M*

 

[indecisive]

Oh, potart, you didn''t offend me. I just don''t agree with you. I think something should be done if threats are made but he didn''t make any threats, except when he talked about suicide, and that is when he was asked to go to the psych evaluation. But to expel a student for be strange, socially awkward, or depressed is wrong to me. He had gotten one on one time with the head of the english department and the campus police did what was in their power to do. I just think you cannot arrest, commit, or expel and adult when no charges were pressed, he hadn''t been violent up to that point, and no threats had been made. I would also hate to think that people wouldn''t get help if they needed it because they were afraid they would get kicked out of school and everyone would know they were having mental issues. I wish there wasn''t a stigma for getting mental health but there already is in society and I would hate to pile on expulsion to the repercussions.

And thank you. I am doing better in that I appreciate everyone around me so much and the time I had with Ryan. Every day we have with our loved ones is a very lucky day.

 

[poptart]

Date: 4/30/2007 12:33:39 AM
Author: indecisive
Oh, potart, you didn''t offend me. I just don''t agree with you. I think something should be done if threats are made but he didn''t make any threats, except when he talked about suicide, and that is when he was asked to go to the psych evaluation. But to expel a student for be strange, socially awkward, or depressed is wrong to me. He had gotten one on one time with the head of the english department and the campus police did what was in their power to do. I just think you cannot arrest, commit, or expel and adult when no charges were pressed, he hadn''t been violent up to that point, and no threats had been made. I would also hate to think that people wouldn''t get help if they needed it because they were afraid they would get kicked out of school and everyone would know they were having mental issues. I wish there wasn''t a stigma for getting mental health but there already is in society and I would hate to pile on expulsion to the repercussions.


And thank you. I am doing better in that I appreciate everyone around me so much and the time I had with Ryan. Every day we have with our loved ones is a very lucky day.

From reading what you wrote in this post, I agree with you completely. Very few people who are afraid that they may be dealing with mental health issues would be even more afraid to approach others for help if they felt that they were going to be permanently punished for it. I was under the impression that there HAD been threats made, as was the case with the person on our campus, so of course they didn''t allow him back. I have been friends with many people who have social disorders and are socially awkward, and would very much hate to see them being even further ostracized simply because they cannot communicate their thoughts as easily as everyone else. The correct decision just seems to be a very fine line to walk.

I am glad to hear that you are feeling better

*M*

 

[diamondfan]

Indecisive, I am sure that is one of the issues that we face today when something like this occurs and people come forward to tell how this person was not acting within a normal range of behaviors. Of course we cannot "punish" people who are odd, bizarre, creepy or strange. There IS a stigma, and being there must be a way to get people help without making it so terrible and punitive that they are unwilling to come forward. For those who are severly ill and do not see it, there should be ways to get someone help when it is clear that they are disturbed and will not seek it on their own. Only after something happens can we look back and think how this might have been likely given the person''s personality etc. We have all experienced being around people who are not mentally stable, and as we do not have a measuring stick to know who will or who will not become violent, since we cannot really predict that with accuracy, we have to sit back. Of course there are people who lose it and never acted off prior to any violent acts. And to me, this young man, repeatedly and with alarming increases in pathology, did exhibit symptoms that warranted intervention. He did frighten classmates with the violent content of his writings. We live in a difficult world, we do not want to condemn someone for things that may never amount to anything, but yet, to me, there were more than the typical signs and symptoms here. I just heard that an 18 year old high school senior was arrested for a creative writing assigment''s content, supposedly the teacher told the class to write whatever came to them as they sat there, and yet his was deemed over the top, sick, scary etc, and the teacher notified the head of the school. In turn the police were brought in, and the boy says he was following the assignment and his right to free speech is being hindered. I understand the constitution, yet must say there are things that scare me and I am not sure I could hear them and just assume it was creativity and nothing more. A tough row to hoe for all involved, and hard to know how it will affect people in the future.

 

[Kaleigh]

Indecisive,
I admire you, your strength and your compassion. Losing Ryan must have been so extremely painful. I feel for you, and for your school. I also loved what you said about the angels looking over the school. I pray each victim has an angel looking out for their family, friends and loved ones. You sound like a remarkable woman, and have handled this tragedy with great courage, grace and compassion. No one can know about the situation unless they went to the school. I am done too. But wanted to say, I am glad that you are doing ok.

 

[fire&ice]

..Or make judgements when they *think* they are in the know. Truly, the people who are most supportive of the administration, police, etc are those that are closest to the situation & have lost the most. That, in itself, should say something.

Shouda, wouda, couda - continuing to assign blame - how does this help anyone? It just feeds trolls. It was mentioned shortly after the Murders that one of the buildings was locked down (Burgess). Why was not widely told. It was because of a credible death threat against the VT President.

Indesicive & njc - you came to my thoughts immediately upon hearing this story. My husband went to the Drill Field this past week. When placing his own memorial on one of the stones, he noticed a women who appeared older than a student. She was sobbing. Students passing by would just come up hug and move on. An alum paying her respects w/ the support of Hokie Nation to the back drop of Student playing rugby. Kinda says it all. 85% of the student returned to campus. Hokie Pride.

Our paper quoted the admin that over 12k acceptance letters went out. Out of the usual percentage of declines, only 5 prospective students cited the murders as reason for declining the spot in the VT student body.

At the end of the day, you can''t make sense of the senseless. Our Governor, at the request of VT admin, has formed a task force (which includes Tom Ridge) to try to identify, deal with & get the proper authorities talking to one another in a positive way in hopes to better deal with a situation that may arise in the future.

Yep, Angels in Maroon and Orange.

 

[jesterjigger]

I don''t understand how the shooter was a victim of society. But I also don''t think that he should have a stone in the memorial. Society tried to help him, when there are so many laws and regulations tying "society''s" hands what are they supposed to do? The fact that they put him away at all is more than what I would have expected in this day and age. The private tutoring sessions too seemed to be above and beyond what would normally be expected. If you do think "society" failed him I certainly hope you aren''t suggesting that the society of the United States was that failure. My fiance (a VT alumni) took classes with one of the slain professor''s. We''re both currently IN South Korea, and have been since June last year. This has hit very close to home for us, and we will never consider the killer to be a victim, especially of our society.

 

[oshinbreez]

Date: 5/1/2007 3:34:43 AM
Author: jesterjigger
I don''t understand how the shooter was a victim of society. But I also don''t think that he should have a stone in the memorial. Society tried to help him, when there are so many laws and regulations tying ''society''s'' hands what are they supposed to do? The fact that they put him away at all is more than what I would have expected in this day and age. The private tutoring sessions too seemed to be above and beyond what would normally be expected. If you do think ''society'' failed him I certainly hope you aren''t suggesting that the society of the United States was that failure. My fiance (a VT alumni) took classes with one of the slain professor''s. We''re both currently IN South Korea, and have been since June last year. This has hit very close to home for us, and we will never consider the killer to be a victim, especially of our society.

When I said he was a victim of society, I was not talking about the VT campus. This "probably" started many years ago. His family was poor in Korea. I don''t know about the Korean culture, so I won''t comment about it. But, he moved to the states in 1992, which would put Cho at 8. Think back to when you were in 3rd and 4th grade. Think of the kids that were made fun of... called names, whispered about, laughed at, etc. I imagine that this continued throughout his school years. If you look at some of the threads on this board, (American Idol, Celebrity threads, etc) you will notice name calling and jokes about people''s physical looks, clothes, hair, etc. And these comments are from ADULTS that supposedly know better. Imagine how much worse it is with kids. At some point, the "victim" is going to fight back.

In Jacksonville, several years ago uniforms for school age children was implimented. I think it''s a great idea. It is just one small way of not separating the poor kids from the rich kids. It is one less thing that the kids made fun of for not wearing the right labels one less thing to worry about.

As a society, we need to look at ourselves, and what we are teaching our children. The US is a very materialistic society and if you don''t wear the designer clothes, drive the SUV, live in the 10,000 sq ft house, people look down on you. I''m not talking about anyone in particular, so don''t flame me. Just my opinion.

 

[fire&ice]

First, Idol/Celebs ARE about LOOKS. It''s their marketability. So, equating those threads with society''s feelings about appearances doesn''t fly. Their appearance is part of their job.

We will always and continue to judge by appearances. Is that cool? - no - but a fact. Lots of people are made fun of. Lots of people don''t turn into homicidal maniacs. I don''t feel sorry for him. I certainly don''t view him as a victim. He premeditated the murders of 32 innocents. THEY are the VICTIMS. While I understand the grief his family may feel, those that supposedly should love him the most FAILED.

 

[diamondfan]

The bullied often become the aggressor, research has shown that kids who have been repeatedly bullied often build up a rage and lash out. That is why bullying is starting to be taken sooo seriously, because there are cases where the victim of it tends to let it build over the years and finally cannot take anymore.

However, I sense that this young man was not necessarily tormented. He would not likely have been in the "in" crowd, but I am sure he was bright and had the ability to make at least one or two good pals, which is really all that one would need to feel okay during those years. I think he chose to remove himself more and more from social interaction, for whatever reason, clearly I cannot speculate but from things I heard, he was not responsive and did not make any efforts, even in high school. Clearly he was not a gorgeous, popular star kid in high school, but I can think that if he tried, or if he made the effort, he certainly would have found a core group of friends in which to socialize. When I was in high school back in the day, we had the athletes, the preppies, the drama group, the computer whizzes...people tended to hang with those who were of like mind. It just seems that Cho was isolated, but more of his own choice, surely he could have sought out other Asians, a large population in that area, or find just a couple of kids who shared whatever his interests were. I think more likely he was standoffish and did not allow anyone in too closely, for whatever reason, and that wall effectively prevented others who might have been a good fit for him socially to back off. I have been around people like that, they totally discourage and prevent closeness and eventually people stop trying.