Wanting but Waiting...

[monkeyprincess]

I don't have a dog in the fight on the red-shirting thing, but I was just curious to hear your thinking AMC. B has always been a tall kid for his age and pretty coordinated and advanced physically. Are you worried he will not be emotionally ready? I don't think you can tell that at this point. I was born in mid-August, and I started school just after turning 5. I graduated at the top of my class and was able to participate in sports, etc., so in my case, it worked out well. My SIL decided to hold my nephew who was born in early July back because she did not think he was emotionally mature. So, he started kindergarten when he was just over 6 years old. To a certain extent, he was kind of emotionally immature (partly due to parenting style in my opinion), but he is a big kid. I sort of think her plan backfired because he's a pretty bright kid, so he tends to get bored and act out a bit. I also think his larger size has allowed him to think he can be kind of bossy and take charge with his peers. Obviously, this is anecdotal, and there are certainly cases where a child legitimately is not ready to start school for one reason or another. Like I said, I was just curious to hear your reasoning.

 

[amc80]

I don't have a dog in the fight on the red-shirting thing, but I was just curious to hear your thinking AMC. B has always been a tall kid for his age and pretty coordinated and advanced physically. Are you worried he will not be emotionally ready? I don't think you can tell that at this point. I was born in mid-August, and I started school just after turning 5. I graduated at the top of my class and was able to participate in sports, etc., so in my case, it worked out well. My SIL decided to hold my nephew who was born in early July back because she did not think he was emotionally mature. So, he started kindergarten when he was just over 6 years old. To a certain extent, he was kind of emotionally immature (partly due to parenting style in my opinion), but he is a big kid. I sort of think her plan backfired because he's a pretty bright kid, so he tends to get bored and act out a bit. I also think his larger size has allowed him to think he can be kind of bossy and take charge with his peers. Obviously, this is anecdotal, and there are certainly cases where a child legitimately is not ready to start school for one reason or another. Like I said, I was just curious to hear your reasoning.

It's mainly based on people I've talked to- friends with boys who were born in the July-September time. Every single one of them has said they had wished they had waited a year. DH was born in August (and was also a big kid) and wishes he had been held back as well. I've thought about the fact that B is so big, and delaying him a year will just magnify that. But it is the maturity I'm worried about. Not when he's 5, but when he's 8, 9, 10. From what I've read, that's the age it usually catches up with boys. If it was a girl, I'd start her on time. I know it's a decision we can't make right now 100%, because who knows how he will be in another 3.5 years. DH and I have talked about it a lot, and that is definitely how we are leaning. August and September are just so tough.

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

My reasoning goes with the borderline birthday kids. Not any and all.

 

[monkeyprincess]

amc, I have heard that conventional wisdom as well that girls do fine when they are young in their class but boys do not. I guess I just don't fully understand the reasoning about why there is a difference. I also wonder if some of the supposed angst that comes when the boys are 8, 9, 10 is just a developmental thing. Plus, I think a lot of it just depends on the individual kids' personalities. The thing is, there is always going to be somewhat of an age difference among students in a class. Somebody's going to be the oldest in the class, and somebody is going to be the youngest. By imposing cut-off dates, you ensure that the age difference is less than one year. But by holding boys back because they have August/September birthdays, you are potentially widening the age gap of the class or at a minimum just changing the order of things and making the spring/summer boys be the youngest in their class and the late summer/early fall boys be the oldest. That's just my thought on it anyway. I'm sure you will do what you think is best for B when the time comes. As you should.

 

[JGator]

I was worried that K is going to miss out since she was born in late October and won't be able to go to Kindergarten until she's almost 6. I was born in August and went to Kindergarten right after turning 5 like MP and I had no issues in school. My BFF is a Kindergarten teacher and she said that in general boys are less mature than girls up until they are about 8 or 9. They have a hard time sitting still and are more disruptive to the class. I don' t think she believes in red-shirting though. This is what I read online about it - http://www.parents.com/kids/education/kindergarten/kindergarten-age/

This part made sense to me - "A recent study published in the Journal of Human Resources, a quarterly academic publication from the University of Wisconsin Press, found that a number of related factors, including a family's economic status and how well-prepared a student is for kindergarten, have a greater impact on a child's predicted achievement than her chronological age does."

And, this part would explain why I didn't feel like too young growing up in my classes - "The number of kindergartners over the age of 5 has more than tripled from 5.4 percent in 1970 to 17 percent in 2009, according to the National Center for Education Statistics. While about one quarter of the increase is due to modifications in states' age-cutoff rules, redshirting accounts for the rest, according to data compiled by the National Bureau of Economic Research. (Most states require a child to be 5, or turning 5, by the end of the calendar year when he starts kindergarten."

 

[MuffDog]

Woo...I didn't realize that my throwaway comment about redshirting would cause such a stir! Sorry!! In Canada we don't really have the same level of college/university/professional sports so the concept of redshirting for an additional year of eligibility doesn't really exist.

Anyhoo - had a dream last night that I was preggo. Went to Costco and bought a bulk pack of pregnancy tests. Took one and it was positive. Then I wondered what I'd do with the rest. Figured it wasn't so bad because I could keep taking them just to see that I was still preggo. WEIRD.

Hope you guys are doing well!

 

[mayerling]

Congratulations Muff!

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

Woo...I didn't realize that my throwaway comment about redshirting would cause such a stir! Sorry!! In Canada we don't really have the same level of college/university/professional sports so the concept of redshirting for an additional year of eligibility doesn't really exist.

Anyhoo - had a dream last night that I was preggo. Went to Costco and bought a bulk pack of pregnancy tests. Took one and it was positive. Then I wondered what I'd do with the rest. Figured it wasn't so bad because I could keep taking them just to see that I was still preggo. WEIRD.

Hope you guys are doing well!

Holy Macaroni congrats! I guess the redshirting is no longer an issue, lol!

 

[monkeyprincess]

Muff, wait a minute. When I read that, I thought you were saying the whole pregnancy and Costco thing was all a dream. . . . Did I read that wrong?

 

[amc80]

I think the whole thing was a dream, at least that's how i read it.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I think the whole thing was a dream, at least that's how i read it.

Same here. Although pregnancy dreams are how it all starts, Muff

 

[pancake]

muffdog, you know it's all a snowballing thing from here...

Re redshirting, it really isn't about anecdotal stories of I/this person/my sister/my kid went to school at [insert age] and was fine. The problem is not just one of individual children, it is of how the overall practice affects the educational system. Certainly in Australia, and it sounds like elsewhere also, public education systems and education regulation are just not on top of the fact that it is happening and as someone pointed out, it means that instead of having children in one year level who are within a 12 month window, you have kids who are within an 18 month or even almost 24 month window. That, at a systemic level, is not good, and I cannot see how it benefits individual kids either. Educational choices are some of the biggest we make for our kids and I just do not think that they should be made based on talking to a teacher, a school, other parents. They need to be based on more than that. For me, I want to know that the choices that I am making for my children are of benefit to them, empirically proven at a population level - unless of course, my kid is a true outlier who has particular individual needs not catered for by the conventional system.

There is already very strong and compelling evidence that the practice of making kids stay back a year once they're already at school is of detriment in terms of social, mental health, and educational outcomes. There is less evidence in this particular field but I suspect that it will not be all that different.

Also - of the parents who decide to hold back their children because of particular reasons or because they feel that their kids are weaker in a particular area, very few actually go on and do anything about that particularly identified concern. Simply sending kids to another year of kindergarten/preschool (or whatever it is called wherever in the world we are looking) is not addressing that either. Additionally, I think there is a lack of recognition in childhood education at large that all people - and thus all children - have a different set of strengths and weaknesses, and the role of education should not to be to equalise everybody in everything, but rather to be able to successfully foster individual strengths and support individual weaknesses within the broader context of a classroom group.

/soapbox

(sorry; this is one of my bugbear topics!)

 

[mayerling]

Oh! I read as in she had a dream one night so the next day she decided to test. But I guess your explanation sounds more plausible given how she said they're not trying yet.

As far as the other issue is concerned, I really think there should be a rule saying that kids need to be in school by a certain age. A child could be held back if people think that he or she is not ready for school, but ability to play sport should not be considered a factor.

 

[pancake]

Mayerling, I don't think sport is a factor here - not much of one, anyway. There are actually rules stipulating that a child must enter school by the year he/she turns 6; however in my state the cut-off is turning 5 by April 30 (and it is similar in the other Australian states and territories), which means that there is a 17 month age gap between the youngest and oldest in a commencing class. I don't think the system - any system really, apart from perhaps a Montessori-type model - is equipped to deal with that. Although individual teachers will sometimes advocate for holding back (and unfortunately also often on a "hunch" rather than continuing professional education about the evidence and current research), I can't see that it makes their lives any easier either, because it just increases the discrepancies. Obviously some almost-5yos will be very emotionally level and some 6 year olds will be very emotionally labile, but that's not just an age-related phenomenon, it is a developmental thing that is related to temperament (not to mention things like sleep - how many parents talk about their kids being "emotionally labile" when said kids go to bed at 9pm or 10pm at night?!).

S starts 3yo kinder next year. Her birthday is February 13. The cut-off is April 30. I don't doubt that she will be one of the youngest, if not the youngest, in her class. Go figure.

 

[MuffDog]

AHHH you guys are crazy It was ALL a dream. Come one - a jumbo, bulk pack of pregnancy tests from Costco?! Hahahahahaha

We aren't trying yet. You guys will probably be the first to know. haha

 

[amc80]

AHHH you guys are crazy It was ALL a dream. Come one - a jumbo, bulk pack of pregnancy tests from Costco?! Hahahahahaha We aren't trying yet. You guys will probably be the first to know. haha

Funny story about that. Costco does sell FRERs, but just a regular 3 pack. My friend is a Costxo pharmacist. I told her they need to carry FRERs in bulk. Her response? "Why? You only need one test!" Hahahhaa

 

[mayerling]

Don't live in the US so have no idea about whether bulk tests from COSTCO are possible or not.

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

Hahahaha I know they sell boxes of 36 condoms so it really didn't cross my mind that they would sell bulk pregnancy tests!

 

[MuffDog]

Haha I mean like a pack of 100 tests. The digital kind even!!

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

Haha I mean like a pack of 100 tests. The digital kind even!!

Imagine how expensive that would be, even at Costco, ha!

 

[hippi_pixi]

I rarely remember that this side of pricescope exists but I have been wanting and waiting for a long time the husband wants kids and we're always talking names and how we will raise them but still waiting.

we've been together 8 years. first we waited cos we were at uni, and then because we hadn't told his parents about me (we lived together secretly from his family for 5 years) then waited until we got married. now we're waiting until we move cities and buy a house. we had agreed 2015 would be the year but now DH says 2016.

3 years ago we bought a puppy and that helped but not i need either another puppy or a baby! I'm only 26 so we have heaps of time but hormones have kicked in and i want to be a yummy mummy!

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

Well our move went well! We moved to a two bedroom 2 family house, the main floor, yay no more outside flight of stairs! Our upstairs neighbor is nice and quiet so all is great! The second bedroom is small, just enough for a future nursery/child's room. We hope to stay here until we can buy a home which we won't do until we finish paying off our student loans, about 5 years. Hopefully there will be a puppy (yay) by the end of this year and a baby by the end of the next. We'll see how the puppy goes first!

 

[amc80]

Well our move went well! We moved to a two bedroom 2 family house, the main floor, yay no more outside flight of stairs! Our upstairs neighbor is nice and quiet so all is great! The second bedroom is small, just enough for a future nursery/child's room. We hope to stay here until we can buy a home which we won't do until we finish paying off our student loans, about 5 years. Hopefully there will be a puppy (yay) by the end of this year and a baby by the end of the next. We'll see how the puppy goes first!

Congrats, how exciting!

 

[TooPatient]

Interesting discussions today...

Friend from CA called and asked if I'm pregnant yet (the only one to have asked when we were going to). She thought it was silly that DH wants to wait until I'm done with school and things line up right. She made lots of sense!

So DH and I talked. He wants to figure out what we'd do for childcare, but thinks she made very good points that we'd overlooked before. Not the least of which is that I've got another 2 years (plus a bit) to finish school and then they bring the recruiters in to hire us into companies. That would be a great opportunity to get started and I'd hate to miss that. That pushed us out to something like 5 years or so before starting to try (unless something else came up that made the timing not so good).
It is exactly that sort of thinking that made it take 9 years before we got married!

I'm looking into childcare options to see what is an option for us. If we had a baby while I'm still in school, I could take a quarter off and then only need a few hours a day of childcare (or less). The school offers childcare to students.... at $1300+ per MONTH
After my transfer, we'd get priority admission to school childcare centers at "only" $1600 per MONTH
(They do sliding scale based on income, but DH's income alone puts us in the top pricing bracket )

We can't do that on just DH's income. Heck, I only made $1600/month when I was working 30 hours per week!

So I'm trying to find alternatives. All of our friends work. I suppose we could go the hourly babysitter route and hire various college girls on a quarter by quarter basis?

I'd like to figure it out, because if we were to have a baby in the near-ish timeframe I'd be able to take a quarter or two off and then by the time I was getting hired the kid would be about ready for a pre-school (give or take).

 

[TooPatient]

Well our move went well! We moved to a two bedroom 2 family house, the main floor, yay no more outside flight of stairs! Our upstairs neighbor is nice and quiet so all is great! The second bedroom is small, just enough for a future nursery/child's room. We hope to stay here until we can buy a home which we won't do until we finish paying off our student loans, about 5 years. Hopefully there will be a puppy (yay) by the end of this year and a baby by the end of the next. We'll see how the puppy goes first!

Exciting!!

 

[TooPatient]

I rarely remember that this side of pricescope exists but I have been wanting and waiting for a long time the husband wants kids and we're always talking names and how we will raise them but still waiting.

we've been together 8 years. first we waited cos we were at uni, and then because we hadn't told his parents about me (we lived together secretly from his family for 5 years) then waited until we got married. now we're waiting until we move cities and buy a house. we had agreed 2015 would be the year but now DH says 2016.

3 years ago we bought a puppy and that helped but not i need either another puppy or a baby! I'm only 26 so we have heaps of time but hormones have kicked in and i want to be a yummy mummy!

This is the same sort of problem we have too!

The funny thing is we've traded roles on this one. He's usually ready to tear the sheetrock off the wall and then figure out the details while I want to know exactly how we'll do it, what we'll need (in detail), and what potential issues could happen.
Now I'm ready to toss the birth control and just go with it and DH is insisting on figuring out childcare and stuff

I'm 29 but DH is 57 (58 in just 2 months...) so I don't feel like we have a bunch of time to wait. I'd like to have a baby while he is still young enough and active enough to enjoy. I'd also like to have the kid grown while DH & I are both healthy enough to maybe travel a little on our own too. (We've never had a vacation for just the two of us before!)

I know he's right about figuring out childcare ($1300 ++++ per month!?!? Even when I'd just need a few hours!?!?)

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

Child care costs are similar where I live (Long Island) and DH and I have been waiting in part for that reason. My Mother works from home and finally agreed to take full time day care duties so we are going to start TTC in December for my job schedule. I'll be 29 then. If we had to pay for daycare we would have kept on waiting. Best of luck figuring it out!

 

[TooPatient]

Child care costs are similar where I live (Long Island) and DH and I have been waiting in part for that reason. My Mother works from home and finally agreed to take full time day care duties so we are going to start TTC in December for my job schedule. I'll be 29 then. If we had to pay for daycare we would have kept on waiting. Best of luck figuring it out!

Exciting!

Childcare is a MASSIVE expense so it is great that your mother is going to help you out!


Looks like quarter to quarter is going to be the best option for us with childcare. Hard to plan since any of the hourly or half day sorts of options are only if they have space after full day kids. We did get a recommendation for a woman who does care in your home for a flat hourly rate. She also cooks & cleans between caring for the kid! Recommendation is from a very reliable source who is extremely picky about who to trust.

Realistically, we're looking at about $15/hour. Should only need about 3 hours per day, but need to budget for 6 hours for commute and spaced out classes.

Now, just need to get finances a little more recovered from DH's illness (no pay for 4 months ) and figure our where in this house we could put a nursery (or where to add on a big room for "A" and turn hers into a nursery?).

Ideally we'd start trying the end of September or so. Best timing would be a due date the end of June or early July.... I keep telling DH it isn't that organized but that would be his ideal timing -- I'd finish spring quarter then have the summer home with the baby and be able to take light load fall/winter/spring quarters.

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

So living in a place that actually has a room for a baby and being literally surrounded by friends with babies or who are preggo has def kicked my brain into wanting a baby. I'm a big planner and love love love planning for things and researching so the hunt for what I want/actually need for a baby has begun! I already found gender neutral bedding that I love. And I already bought it. It may seem kind of crazy but I'm the kind of person who likes what they like so I know I'll still like it when the time comes. And worst case scenario it can go to my dog eventually. Anyone else buy anything while waiting TTC or actually TTC?

 

[TooPatient]

So living in a place that actually has a room for a baby and being literally surrounded by friends with babies or who are preggo has def kicked my brain into wanting a baby. I'm a big planner and love love love planning for things and researching so the hunt for what I want/actually need for a baby has begun! I already found gender neutral bedding that I love. And I already bought it. It may seem kind of crazy but I'm the kind of person who likes what they like so I know I'll still like it when the time comes. And worst case scenario it can go to my dog eventually. Anyone else buy anything while waiting TTC or actually TTC?

Ummm...

I may have walked by the baby section at the store and may have stuck some cute stuff in my cart (hey, it was on sale!) and may have almost made it to the checkout before I decided that I should talk to DH again before actually buying stuff since we had been talking 2+ years.

Now that we're talking TTC in another 6 months or so? Oh yeah!


ETA: I also may have a drawer of HPTs