Wanting but Waiting...

[Asscherhalo_lover]

AsscherHaloLover- You've definitely got the ball rolling. sounds like removing the implant went well and you're all set for TTC!

Toopatient - I'm sure it won't be long before this awkward limbo stage is behind you

We haven't moved yet... My husband started a new job 2 days a week, on top of the 4 days he was already working 8-7. He wanted the overlap to be sure the new job was a keeper before giving notice at the old. the new job is not working out as we had hoped, they hired him and offered him 2 days a week until we move but he works on commission and has only had a couple of hours work on the days he had any work at all. so he's now looking for something else. We're in talks with a job we turned down a month ago that we know realise has better prospects but I think needs someone full time very soon and he needs to give 2 months notice. so I'm trying to convince him to have a leap of faith and give his 2 months notice, so we can just move on with our lives. we have a decent amount of savings to survive a lean period if need be

I'm very excited to move because it is barrier no. 1 to TTC, but finding the situation very stressful too. I'm also waiting to give notice to my work until we know when we are moving, I'm so beyond ready to do this since i emotionally checked out of this job a year ago when we decided to move.

I pretty much told hubby that come december I am trying for a baby. with or without him he's allergic to change but is coping pretty well with it all

apparently William and Kate are expecting number 2!

Ugh there's nothing more annoying than job changes and moving! I hope it all comes together within the next month for you and you can be comfortable with your December timeline.

 

[bobbin]

I thought I'd check in too.

We are still looking at starting to TTC in December 2015.

I have become a lot more 'meh' about it though. I feel a bit overwhelmed with life at the moment. Between work stress (I'm a lawyer), study, husband studying, planning stages of building a house, being sick all the time, looking after a 2 year old who has just entered the 'terrible two's' phase , the idea of adding a newborn on top of that just isn't that appealing at the moment.

However, I know I still want at least one more child so the December 2015 plan is still there in he back of my mind, and who knows when I'll next suddenly be hit with a wave of feeling REALLY clucky? Could be tomorrow, or never, haha.

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

I thought I'd check in too.

We are still looking at starting to TTC in December 2015.

I have become a lot more 'meh' about it though. I feel a bit overwhelmed with life at the moment. Between work stress (I'm a lawyer), study, husband studying, planning stages of building a house, being sick all the time, looking after a 2 year old who has just entered the 'terrible two's' phase , the idea of adding a newborn on top of that just isn't that appealing at the moment.

However, I know I still want at least one more child so the December 2015 plan is still there in he back of my mind, and who knows when I'll next suddenly be hit with a wave of feeling REALLY clucky? Could be tomorrow, or never, haha.

You're so busy! It must be a good bit harder when you already have a little one at home, especially a toddler. I can tell you that even though I'm only about 3 months from TTC now I'm still not "clucky", I'm more just comfortable with it.

At least if you wait until next December to try your toddler will likely be around 4 when you actually have another baby, that would hopefully be much easier than it would be now.

AFM, now that my Nexplanon is out, oh my the not being on hormonal BC anymore! My CD1 started the very next day, not even 12 hours after having it out, and it shows no sign of letting up anytime soon after 6 days! I have no clue how long this will go on for but I did start tracking on FF since it was CD1 and using OPK's just to get used to doing it. I have over 100 from a friend who got preggo and they expire in November so I might as well POS anytime I want, lol. I'll be very happy to have a normal cycle again after over 4 years of basically nothing.

 

[hippi_pixi]

Asscherhalolover I was on the pill for the best part of a decade and stopped taking it at the start of the year and had one period straight away and then nothing for 6 months. a friend of mine got her normal cycle back straight away. so it might be hard to predict at first. now that I've got my normal cycle back I've realised that my normal cycle is avg 42 days long which i think is not great for TTC.

Bobbin the nice thing about pregnancy is you have 9 months to prepare! physically and emotionally!

My husband gave notice at the old job this week! I'm so happy that he's taken this leap of faith. He's sacrificed the financial security of his old job in order to commit to the future. It might mean a period of low to no income but we have savings and now he's able to commit to new jobs! he was contracted to give 2 months notice but his boss, in the heat of the moment told him he could finish up in 2 weeks. he's very fickle so hopefully he doesn't change his mind. in the meantime we're both thrilled! I feel 1 step closer to TTC. he just needs to build his income back up while commuting, then i will give notice and we can move. once moved its TTC!

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

Yay hippie pixie that's great news! Sometimes you have to just go for it!

I've actually been looking at taking a one year contract side job just for extra money to help with a maternity leave. I should find out this weekend if I get it. It just happened last night through my agency so it's pretty quick if I take it.

As for my BC, it was a progesterone implant, not the pill or depo so as soon as they took it out it is completely out of my system. Unless I am wacky my cycle should return to normal as soon as the bleed is over. My doctor even warned me I could ovulate within two weeks, hence the already diligent/borderline obsessive use of OPKS. I need to know when I ovulate so I can avoid a pregnancy for now, lol. Fingers crossed that it all works out!

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

I know there's not many of us on here but I figured I'd ask how's everyone doing?

I've been on quite a ride since having my BC removed. One thing I can say, if you buy a BBT check the reviews on amazon and consider vaginal temping with probe covers instead of oral temping. I've had nothing but wacky temps so far, very annoying. Even for the ladies who are quite aways off from TTC you may want to start tracking your cycle of you're not on BC. It's amazing what our bodies do in such a short time!

I hope all are well!

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

Just got my note in the mail from the OBGYN about my pre pregnancy screening, PAP and bloodwork all normal! Yay!

 

[star sparkle]

Just got my note in the mail from the OBGYN about my pre pregnancy screening, PAP and bloodwork all normal! Yay!

That's great news!

Re: temping - I have no idea how you ladies do it. I never, and I really mean never, wake up at or around the same time each morning, and rarely do I have a night where I sleep for 3+ hours at a time. I'm such a bad sleeper than temping just isn't feasible for me, so I use OPKs and just hope that they're accurate enough. I get a positive OPK on the same day every single cycle, so hopefully that means my cycles are like clockwork and doing what they should be doing.

We had planned to start the TTC journey like, now, but we've decided to hold off for awhile. The main thing driving our timeline was DH's work situation, but it seems like that will no longer be a factor so we decided not to jump in yet. The way things are now, I think we may start next year around this time. It's weird - now that I know we're *not* going to be trying right now, the feeling is a little bittersweet and makes me want to do it. Bizarre.

 

[amc80]

Just got my note in the mail from the OBGYN about my pre pregnancy screening, PAP and bloodwork all normal! Yay!

That's great news!

Re: temping - I have no idea how you ladies do it. I never, and I really mean never, wake up at or around the same time each morning, and rarely do I have a night where I sleep for 3+ hours at a time. I'm such a bad sleeper than temping just isn't feasible for me, so I use OPKs and just hope that they're accurate enough. I get a positive OPK on the same day every single cycle, so hopefully that means my cycles are like clockwork and doing what they should be doing.

We had planned to start the TTC journey like, now, but we've decided to hold off for awhile. The main thing driving our timeline was DH's work situation, but it seems like that will no longer be a factor so we decided not to jump in yet. The way things are now, I think we may start next year around this time. It's weird - now that I know we're *not* going to be trying right now, the feeling is a little bittersweet and makes me want to do it. Bizarre.

I rarely temp at the same time and it's never been an issue. Some people are much more sensitive to that than others.

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

I just set an alarm on my phone take my temp and go back to sleep. I thankfully have no issues sleeping or getting back to sleep so it's fine for me. I have also noticed that the changes in CM and OPKs are very easy to keep track of on their own and perfectly feasible to use if temping just doesn't work out.

 

[TooPatient]

Waiting is.... easier?.... now.

Things have been really tough with "A" recently. I have to keep reminding myself that this is NOT normal teenage stuff and if/when we have a kid most of what we are dealing with won't be going on. (Too personal to go into great length, but we've been having to make sure neither of us is alone with her because of false accusations that she made in the past and seemed to be setting up again.)

Right now I am feeling like I want to be able to be selfish at some point. I want to be able to go on vacation. I want to be able to take a day to have my nails done and go out for coffee. I want to be able to have a weekend just DH & me.
DH and I have only had ONE dinner out without "A" in the last two years. (not many more in without her and most of those were when we paid for her to have a weekend trip with a teen group)

When I think about having a kid who will be for 18+ years needing all of our time, energy, and money -- or at least a bunch of it and us trying to find a healthy balance -- it just feels so overwhelming and like maybe I'd rather not have a kid. I have never traveled (okay, so I went to Disneyland for 3 days in 8th grade, Hawaii for 4 days in something like 2nd grade, and played housecleaner when we visited my great-grandma for 5 days in South Dakota (in the middle of nothing so the only thing I got to see was a grocery store an hour+ away) ) I've never been out of the country. Not even to Canada when we are only like 3 hour drive away.

But then I start thinking how nice it would be to have a kid to teach and watch grow into their own person. And how nice holidays would be with a kid around and maybe even grandkids some day. I think about teaching all sorts of stuff and seeing what they are interested in and guiding them to a life they can be happy with.
Okay... and I see the absolutely adorable babies in super cute outfits in services!

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

Waiting is.... easier?.... now.

Things have been really tough with "A" recently. I have to keep reminding myself that this is NOT normal teenage stuff and if/when we have a kid most of what we are dealing with won't be going on. (Too personal to go into great length, but we've been having to make sure neither of us is alone with her because of false accusations that she made in the past and seemed to be setting up again.)

Right now I am feeling like I want to be able to be selfish at some point. I want to be able to go on vacation. I want to be able to take a day to have my nails done and go out for coffee. I want to be able to have a weekend just DH & me.
DH and I have only had ONE dinner out without "A" in the last two years. (not many more in without her and most of those were when we paid for her to have a weekend trip with a teen group)

When I think about having a kid who will be for 18+ years needing all of our time, energy, and money -- or at least a bunch of it and us trying to find a healthy balance -- it just feels so overwhelming and like maybe I'd rather not have a kid. I have never traveled (okay, so I went to Disneyland for 3 days in 8th grade, Hawaii for 4 days in something like 2nd grade, and played housecleaner when we visited my great-grandma for 5 days in South Dakota (in the middle of nothing so the only thing I got to see was a grocery store an hour+ away) ) I've never been out of the country. Not even to Canada when we are only like 3 hour drive away.

But then I start thinking how nice it would be to have a kid to teach and watch grow into their own person. And how nice holidays would be with a kid around and maybe even grandkids some day. I think about teaching all sorts of stuff and seeing what they are interested in and guiding them to a life they can be happy with.
Okay... and I see the absolutely adorable babies in super cute outfits in services!

That is really frustrating with your stepchild, major kudos to you for all you have dealt with thus far and still be going. I don't think I would be able to put up with that. Just remember when you have your own child the two of you get to decide what kind of lifestyle you will have. My DH and I both had pretty crap-tastic childhoods but we've taken a long time and still decided that our lives will be better if we try to do better for our own. And in no way does a child need all of your time, energy, and money. You'll create your own balance. I know I have no intention of being the kind of mother who lives only for her child, hopefully my child will be part of my life, not my whole life.

 

[blingbunny10]

I'm a "Wanting but waiting" PSer, too. We are looking at new jobs and thinking about moving before TTC. Some progress, though: I just started taking prenatal vitamins this week! Also ordered a men's multi w/ folate and convinced my husband to try them.

Thanks for starting this topic! I don't really talk about these issues with friends, so it is just nice to know that others are in the same boat.

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

It's a crazy feeling isn't it? Once my cycle begins to cooperate it'll basically be go time! Welcome and feel free to vent as needed!

 

[hippi_pixi]

Blingbunny I think me and you are at pretty similar stages at this point welcome to the thread.

I started taking prenatals and had my hubby taking a mens version. we stopped taking them though. i felt like i was forcing him into this when he says he's not ready. I want to know that he's with me 100% when the time comes so while I've made it very clear that I'm ready to go, I've said to him recently that I'm going to stop talking about it and he can tell me when he's ready but I'll need 3 months notice to start taking prenatals again. maybe i should just keep taking them so that I'm ready to go when he is! anyway I'm ok and I feel like I'm in a good place right now.

His old job finishes this thursday and he'll be working the new job in the new city in a weeks time. I'll give notice to my current job end of november and finish up over xmas. so we should be moved to the new city over new years. I'm hoping we will find a house to buy in the meantime and be able to move straight in at xmas. he has said we will start baby making once we've bought a house so it could all start happening soon anyway.

i'm a bit nervous about fertility because i have very long cycles which classify as oligomenorrhea and mean i may not be ovluationg. best case scenario we go a long time between attempts to conceive. worst case scenario i may not be ovulating at all which can be an issue in women with long cycles. today is cycle day 54 and I'm still waiting for AF which I haven't felt any symptoms of yet so may still be days away. I don't know why I wouldn't be ovulating, usually it happens in athletes, obese or anorexics and I am none of these things.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Hippi, any interest in tracking your ovulation while you wait to TTC? I also had long cycles prior to TTC and wanted to be sure I was ovulating. I conceived my first during a 40+ day cycle (think I ovulated on CD2. It was really nice to have a history of my long cycles when going to see my OB (didn't want them to think I was having issues with the baby if they assumed I was further along than I really was). Anyway, I found tracking to be really useful not just to make sure I ovulated, but so I had some history to share with my doc.

 

[hippi_pixi]

I will track more rigorously once this hideously long cycle ends. i feel like theres not much point until a new cycle? I've just been keeping track of AF which i didn't use to. but i have OPK's and a BTT thermometer so i will give it a go next cycle. with OPK's do you check once a day or like every time you pee?

still waiting for AF day 65 and counting! and definitely not pregnant. it must be almost over because I'm getting super emotional. I've been crying all day. premenstrual mood swings?

we're looking at houses to buy and every single one of them I'm picturing where my nursery will go and dreaming about setting it up. The houses with nurseries already set up get me emotional. DH asked why I was so set on a home with character (a renovated old wooden house, we call them queenslanders) rather than a new build and I told him it was because I'm picturing a nursery in these houses and then started crying because I've been bottling it up since i said I would stop talking about it and I don't even know if its possible if I'm not ovulating. I hope I'm just off my rocker with hormones.

Oh and i just got an email that my cousin who just got married in June, him and the new wife both mid thirties, are pregnant and due in May! I'm happy for them but it did start my waterworks again. oh dear

 

[hippi_pixi]

well its day 77 in my cycle and I did see my doctor this week and just had an ultrasound to check whats happening. turns out i do have polycystic ovaries which is why my cycle is out of whack. apparently i have ovulated very recently so should get a period in 2 weeks time. it explains a lot like why I've been struggling to lose weight and am still having acne problems at 26

I didn't handle it very well since i got a text msg while in the waiting room telling me a friend from high school passed away today. held it together for little while and then broke down crying when the lady said it was very obvious I had polycystic ovaries. It's been a very rough day

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

well its day 77 in my cycle and I did see my doctor this week and just had an ultrasound to check whats happening. turns out i do have polycystic ovaries which is why my cycle is out of whack. apparently i have ovulated very recently so should get a period in 2 weeks time. it explains a lot like why I've been struggling to lose weight and am still having acne problems at 26

I didn't handle it very well since i got a text msg while in the waiting room telling me a friend from high school passed away today. held it together for little while and then broke down crying when the lady said it was very obvious I had polycystic ovaries. It's been a very rough day

I'm sorry for your news HP, did your doctor suggest anything is regards to treating the PCOS? There are a lot of women in the TTC 6 months or more who have dealt with and still conceived even with PCOS. Maybe they can offer you some information and stories which may be helpful. Hugs to you.

 

[hippi_pixi]

I found out at an ultrasound with a sonographer and will have to go back to my GP to talk about the results. I've been doing my own research and realise having the appearance of polycystic ovaries does not automatically mean you have PCOS but I have all the other symptoms besides an excess of hair. PCOS doesn't necessarily mean infertility problems unless it messes with your cycle which it obviously is. Obviously i will see my GP before making my own diagnosis or treatment plans but it seem like i will have to try harder to lose weight and the link with insulin resistance means i will need to make major changes to my diet

 

[amc80]

I found out at an ultrasound with a sonographer and will have to go back to my GP to talk about the results. I've been doing my own research and realise having the appearance of polycystic ovaries does not automatically mean you have PCOS but I have all the other symptoms besides an excess of hair. PCOS doesn't necessarily mean infertility problems unless it messes with your cycle which it obviously is. Obviously i will see my GP before making my own diagnosis or treatment plans but it seem like i will have to try harder to lose weight and the link with insulin resistance means i will need to make major changes to my diet

Just wanted to chime in. I am on the "PCOS spectrum" as my doc calls it. One ovary is fine and one looks a little polycystic, but not bad enough to call it PCOS. I also have some secondary symptoms. I was put on metformin and really felt a difference pretty quickly.

 

[bobbin]

Well, any ambivalence I was feeling towards having another baby is gone. I want a baby NOW!!

Well, at least that is how I feel today.

12 months feels like a long way away right now.

 

[TooPatient]

Still waiting but not so sure about the wanting.

I know it comes from all the stuff we are going through with "A" and that if we had a kid, it would not likely have those issues because 99%+ of the problems come from her mentally ill mother (she was committed involuntarily for psychiatric care multiple times).

That said, I am exhausted. DH and I fought for custody of her for years. Then we went from that to having her here with us full time dealing with those issues. We have never had any time for just us to enjoy a life together. If we were to have a kid now, we'd be looking at him being almost 80 (even if I got pregnant in the next few months) before the kid were out of high school and starting college. So it almost feels like if we have a baby, we are giving up any chance to have any time to enjoy just being a couple. At the same time as I worry about regrets if we choose not to.

 

[4ever]

So...I'm back
Long story short, I decided that tomorrow is not guaranteed and life is too short to not go for what you want. I'm sure once I have kids work will seam much less important that it does now anyway.
So, we have booked our last big overseas tip for four weeks from this May and will start trying at the same time. Yay!

In the mean time DH and I are still working on being healthy. Still on a very low/no processed sugar diet, eating as little processed food as possible and cutting down to having meat only a few days a week and only one read meat meal a week. Walking for 40+ mins every day.

So feeling good and looking forward to the year ahead

 

[hippi_pixi]

Toopatient that is a very difficult decision, i can't imagine what i would choose if i were you. from what i remember A is 13/14ish?? assuming she struggles to fly the nest when the time comes, your own child could be going through teenage years by then so you'd be doing it all over again. That said it can be difficult living with regrets.

congrats 4ever! It great to get into the healthy habits now so i can keep it up when pregnant. I'm TTC now and wish i had lost 10kg before trying as i fear tryin to lose weight will put my body into survival mode and stop conception.

 

[TooPatient]

Toopatient that is a very difficult decision, i can't imagine what i would choose if i were you. from what i remember A is 13/14ish?? assuming she struggles to fly the nest when the time comes, your own child could be going through teenage years by then so you'd be doing it all over again. That said it can be difficult living with regrets.

congrats 4ever! It great to get into the healthy habits now so i can keep it up when pregnant. I'm TTC now and wish i had lost 10kg before trying as i fear tryin to lose weight will put my body into survival mode and stop conception.

"A" is 15 1/2 -- 16 this summer.

I am SOOOOOo over dealing with a teenager and don't know that I want to go through it again with another kid.

The other thing I have a hard time with is that "A" really doesn't like kids. That won't stop us if we decide we want to have one, but it is something I keep in mind. She is also the sort to break stuff (or set a fire....) if you ask her to help with anything. I would NEVER leave her with a baby/toddler/young kid. I've had people tell me how lucky we are that we'd have a built in babysitter at home but the reality is that she would not want to and we couldn't trust her (at least based on the last couple of years) with that anyway.

I'm also worried about her teaching really really bad things to a kid. She struggles (or we struggle anyway) with her anorexia and all sorts of really bad views about how to relate to the world around her.

I know DH and I could take care of another kid if we want to. I know we are on the same page with how to raise kids. We've already had to face the big things with "A" and have talked about what we would do with a younger kid/baby.
I just don't know if I feel up to it. This is utterly exhausting and an emotional roller coaster.

Part of the urgency is our age difference. I could wait another 5+ years and still have time after the kid grew up to enjoy life (and look forward to grandkids or kid-in-law or whatever) but DH is 29 years older than me...

 

[TooPatient]

So...I'm back
Long story short, I decided that tomorrow is not guaranteed and life is too short to not go for what you want. I'm sure once I have kids work will seam much less important that it does now anyway.
So, we have booked our last big overseas tip for four weeks from this May and will start trying at the same time. Yay!

In the mean time DH and I are still working on being healthy. Still on a very low/no processed sugar diet, eating as little processed food as possible and cutting down to having meat only a few days a week and only one read meat meal a week. Walking for 40+ mins every day.

So feeling good and looking forward to the year ahead

Nice work!

Not sure if you have seen, but there is a weight loss thread over in Hangout that is more of a healthy living support group. Some of us are trying to lose weight and others are trying to maintain or just get a healthier diet (either up or down in calories).

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

Toopatient that is a very difficult decision, i can't imagine what i would choose if i were you. from what i remember A is 13/14ish?? assuming she struggles to fly the nest when the time comes, your own child could be going through teenage years by then so you'd be doing it all over again. That said it can be difficult living with regrets.

congrats 4ever! It great to get into the healthy habits now so i can keep it up when pregnant. I'm TTC now and wish i had lost 10kg before trying as i fear tryin to lose weight will put my body into survival mode and stop conception.

"A" is 15 1/2 -- 16 this summer.

I am SOOOOOo over dealing with a teenager and don't know that I want to go through it again with another kid.

The other thing I have a hard time with is that "A" really doesn't like kids. That won't stop us if we decide we want to have one, but it is something I keep in mind. She is also the sort to break stuff (or set a fire....) if you ask her to help with anything. I would NEVER leave her with a baby/toddler/young kid. I've had people tell me how lucky we are that we'd have a built in babysitter at home but the reality is that she would not want to and we couldn't trust her (at least based on the last couple of years) with that anyway.

I'm also worried about her teaching really really bad things to a kid. She struggles (or we struggle anyway) with her anorexia and all sorts of really bad views about how to relate to the world around her.

I know DH and I could take care of another kid if we want to. I know we are on the same page with how to raise kids. We've already had to face the big things with "A" and have talked about what we would do with a younger kid/baby.
I just don't know if I feel up to it. This is utterly exhausting and an emotional roller coaster.

Part of the urgency is our age difference. I could wait another 5+ years and still have time after the kid grew up to enjoy life (and look forward to grandkids or kid-in-law or whatever) but DH is 29 years older than me...

I know this is sensitive but...are you sure that "A" living with you is the right place for her? She sounds like she may need intensive help from a residential program. I've had more than a few friends growing up who had mental illness and at one point or another they were all in a residential program, most of them court ordered after something *really bad* happened. I know it's a hard thing to do but it may be in all of your best interest to look into something before anything irreparable occurs.

 

[4ever]

TP- thanks, I will check out that thread. I could do with loosing a couple of kgs but it's not the primary motivation. Thinking about starting a family has made us get serious about being around for as long as possible.

TP- lots of kids are nightmares as teenagers. I think the vast majority grow up and mellow out into normal enough adults.
If you choose not to have kids because of "A" and in 5 years or 10 years time she's an independent person, are you going to regret not having kids?

 

[TooPatient]

TP- thanks, I will check out that thread. I could do with loosing a couple of kgs but it's not the primary motivation. Thinking about starting a family has made us get serious about being around for as long as possible.

TP- lots of kids are nightmares as teenagers. I think the vast majority grow up and mellow out into normal enough adults.
If you choose not to have kids because of "A" and in 5 years or 10 years time she's an independent person, are you going to regret not having kids?

Asscher -- We have already talked with people about intensive psychiatric care for either in or out patient but the out patient people won't work with her because she doesn't want to and the in patient is for people with more severe issues. It is hard to explain, but she is much like her mother in her ability to put on the "normal" appearance (so basically a typical teenager) when she wants but take it much further when it suits her. I've got the actual terminology used by a child/teen psychologist around but what it really means is that we do the best we can to show her normal healthy life and hope some of it sinks in. (and maybe one day she'll be willing to talk to someone)

4ever -- That is exactly what my concern is. I have known a lot of kids and teenagers who were nightmares turn into pretty decent adults. I always dreamed of a future where I had kids and grandkids and a husband to share all the ups/downs of life with them. I would love to have a family that could go do stuff together and have holidays and kids/grandkids to encourage in their own lives & dreams. But I am at a point in my life right now where I can also picture DH & me traveling together and enjoying life together that way.

I figure that we aren't in such a huge rush that I can't take a bit more time to think it over and really reflect on how I'll feel in 5 or 10 or 20 years. (Especially with DH still laid off, us trying to get our own company going, losing our health insurance in just over a month, and me about to transfer for the last couple of years on my degrees! -- need to at least have a stable income and some sort of insurance before...)