Wanting but Waiting...

[bobbin]

Welcome, Bobbin! Sounds like you two are well on your way to TTC! Not trying/not preventing is pretty much the same thing as trying I hope you enjoy this time with your DH. You should just start to plan a short-to-moderate length international trip with a little one! I believe there are lots of PS mommas who have traveled internationally with young ones, and my SIL has traveled to-and-from Finland with my 9 month old niece nearly four times. It's not as easy as solo travel, but it's certainly doable... and what a great experience for your future-child!

Ha! I finally had time to rejoin this thread. The last few months have been a whirlwind.

I think you were right PilsnPinky - I couldn't admit that we were trying because intellectually I knew it wasn't the best thing for us at the time. But we were trying in reality.

Luckily for us, our "not trying" did not result in us falling pregnant. I say luckily because shortly after posting I began to notice more and more things that weren't quite right about where I was working. It was my first job as a lawyer and I was noticing a lot of unethical practices, and failure to meet professional standards in a number of areas. To top that off, the boss was manipulative, happy to lie, blamed everyone else for her own mistakes and was happy to sacrifice anyone for her own purposes. She did value me as an employee, until she realised that there was the smallest hint that I was unhappy with her actions. Then she turned on me, we had a screaming match and I decided that even though I loved my work, the other people I worked with and helping my clients (I tried my hardest to comply to the highest standards but she made it difficult), I couldn't stay. Now, a month later, I am battling with her to pay out my entitlements whilst she sends me abusive emails accusing me of ridiculous things and I have just started a new job.

Now would be the absolute worst time to fall pregnant. My new job expects a lot more in terms of billable hours and quality of work. My old boss has really shaken my confidence and I have to concentrate completely on ensuring I have a secure job for the long term...

So now I will bow out of this thread. I can't even think about having children at this point! Being a lawyer has been my dream since I was 13. It has taken a lot of sacrifice and I feel like this next year will be pivotal to determining whether I can succeed at this or not!

 

[bobbin]

I have an update! I've been totally MIA from pricescope these past few months as I'm in the final countdown of my residency and have been busy staying up all night too many nights, and catching lots of babies. Over the past two months, I turned that magic 30 number many of you have commented on. And I spent it with my dearest friend who has a one year old. This set off lots of fabulous conversations with the hubby about TTC and being a family with a kid, from the serious to the silly. We decided that end of April, early May would be a good time to start trying. Yeah, well I just went back and read my post from Feb on here. The one where I emphasized folic acid and prenatals? I should have taken my own advice!

I got the shock of my life today, when scoffingly I took a pregnancy test, just to prove to myself that it was just my crazy schedule making my (often irregular) period late. And it came up +! Since I'm pretty sure I'm exactly 5 weeks along, right around the time the neural tube is supposed to close, I am kicking myself for not taking the time to pick up the folic acid. AND still sitting here dumbfounded. My DH is at work all day today, so I haven't told him yet. I am very excited, but a little bit stressed since I still have a giant exit exam to get through in the next 3 weeks. Luckily a week ago I contacted the midwife I wanted to start using for my well woman care. I expect to call her on Monday and tell her I need to change it to prenatal care

Congratulations!! How wonderful.

 

[MuffDog]

Sooo...any update from the WBW crew? Nothing new here - a friend of mine who had issues getting KU is preggo so that was great news! Hubs and I are still planning on starting up late summer early fall but I'm off HBC now.

Ummm...nothing else really. Been thinking about the whole working mother thing and how freakin hard that sounds. It sounds like you have time with your infant for a bit and then all of a sudden you are juggling a million different things and never get a second to yourself.

I think I can feel my ovaries shrinking up as I write this haha.

Anyways - just checking in to see if anyone has any updates or fun stories!

 

[suchende]

A friend of mine gave birth this weekend. She's a second-year law student and man, it really has me thinking. The baby is so small, with so many needs. I mean, that's the deal, I know, and like they say, it will never be a good time, but... when BF and I got home to our silent little apartment, it just seemed like we would really struggle to fit a child in anytime soon. And then, to make me think even harder, I was supposed to get my period Saturday (posting this Wednesday morning). I took one HPT yesterday that was negative, going to take another on Friday if I still don't start. Finals are coming up, so it isn't unlikely that it's just stress.

 

[suchende]

And of course I started my period right after I posted my concern... what a relief!

 

[amc80]

And of course I started my period right after I posted my concern... what a relief!

I've found the best way to get my period to show up is to take a HPT. Works every time

 

[suchende]

And of course I started my period right after I posted my concern... what a relief!

I've found the best way to get my period to show up is to take a HPT. Works every time

gosh, and with the new baby here among my circle of friends, it's very welcome. It just highlights how much work a baby is. BF is more baby crazy than ever, though. He's been pricing out 2 bedroom apartments in our post-law school city.

 

[megumic]

Sooo...any update from the WBW crew? Nothing new here - a friend of mine who had issues getting KU is preggo so that was great news! Hubs and I are still planning on starting up late summer early fall but I'm off HBC now.

Ummm...nothing else really. Been thinking about the whole working mother thing and how freakin hard that sounds. It sounds like you have time with your infant for a bit and then all of a sudden you are juggling a million different things and never get a second to yourself.

I think I can feel my ovaries shrinking up as I write this haha.

Anyways - just checking in to see if anyone has any updates or fun stories!

I've been thinking a lot about being a mom and having a career. I'm graduating law school next month and I intend to have a career. We also intent to start our family within the next year. One thing I've been thinking about and have decided is that I do not like and will not use the term "working-mom". All mom's are "working" moms, employment or no employment. Plus why are we modifying mom with anything - have you ever heard Dad with a modification?

But yes, I too think a lot about juggling our life with a LO in the mix...the idea exhausts me but the sheer happiness I'm sure it will bring inspires me.

(Muffdog this post is not at all directed at you...just something my brain has been processing lately and your post reminded me about it and to share it!)

 

[MuffDog]

That is true about the whole 'why don't dads have the 'working dad' thing" but I don't really get fussed about that stuff. As much as we think that child rearing is going to be 50/50, I think that most mothers would say that it is different for the mom when the baby came fro your body. Who knows. That is just what I've heard.

I had a dream I had a baby last night - it was a girl and I couldn't remember her name. But she laughed at my funny faces. So that was nice haha.

Hope you are all doing well and have a nice weekend

 

[suchende]

Yeah I think the term "working mom" just reflects reality rather than paying lip service to some mythical feminist ideal.

 

[megumic]

Yeah I think the term "working mom" just reflects reality rather than paying lip service to some mythical feminist ideal.

What mythical feminist ideal do you speak of?

 

[suchende]

Yeah I think the term "working mom" just reflects reality rather than paying lip service to some mythical feminist ideal.

What mythical feminist ideal do you speak of?

Of mothers not generally bearing the majority of child care duties. Also, I don't really see the harm in acknowledging that motherhood without outside employment is a different experience than balancing a career with motherhood.

I think we do young women a disservice when we gloss over the substantial difficulties of having a family and career, or the challenges that come with putting off children until you're established.

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

We just bought a boat, so that's put babies on the back burner for a couple of years yet. DH would like to wait until he has finished paying child support for his daughter before we have one of our own. She is 16.5 now so that's at least another 1.5 years away.

I'm ok with it. I have just taken on a second job for the next 7 months, its a supervisor position so I am looking forward to the experience and won't really have time to think about a baby for the rest of this year anyway.

 

[megumic]

Yeah I think the term "working mom" just reflects reality rather than paying lip service to some mythical feminist ideal.

What mythical feminist ideal do you speak of?

Of mothers not generally bearing the majority of child care duties. Also, I don't really see the harm in acknowledging that motherhood without outside employment is a different experience than balancing a career with motherhood.

I think we do young women a disservice when we gloss over the substantial difficulties of having a family and career, or the challenges that come with putting off children until you're established.

I think it's fair to acknowledge it's a different experience, but I don't think one is harder than the other.

I also don't think my preference to not use these words together does any sort of glossing over of anything amounting to any sort of disservice. Part of my distaste for the term is that regardless of whether a mother is employed or not, she is "working" all hours of the day. (So are dads for that matter.) When I become a mom, I'll only work 8 hours a day, but I'm a mom all 24 hours of the day. If we are going to use working mom, "mom" should come first and working should come second. I think it's a very personal choice whether one needs to or prefers to work when she becomes a mother, but I don't think that those who work have it any more or less difficult than those who do not work. Like I said, I don't like to modify "friend" or "daughter" or "wife" with working, so why should "mother" be modified with "working?"

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

I think it's fair to acknowledge it's a different experience, but I don't think one is harder than the other.

I also don't think my preference to not use these words together does any sort of glossing over of anything amounting to any sort of disservice. Part of my distaste for the term is that regardless of whether a mother is employed or not, she is "working" all hours of the day. (So are dads for that matter.) When I become a mom, I'll only work 8 hours a day, but I'm a mom all 24 hours of the day. If we are going to use working mom, "mom" should come first and working should come second. I think it's a very personal choice whether one needs to or prefers to work when she becomes a mother, but I don't think that those who work have it any more or less difficult than those who do not work. Like I said, I don't like to modify "friend" or "daughter" or "wife" with working, so why should "mother" be modified with "working?"

I'm probably interpreting this wrong but just to clarify,

You don't believe that being a working mother is harder than being a stay at home mother? or is your point about the semantics of the words?

 

[suchende]

I just can't agree. I think the experience of having a career while raising children as a mother (not just a job for income but the broader idea of having a professional life and identity) is a unique experience and that the terminology fits the concept. Also, 8 hours a day? Where? I am not seeing legal jobs where you can expect to work less than 60 hours a week.

 

[megumic]

I just can't agree. I think the experience of having a career while raising children as a mother (not just a job for income but the broader idea of having a professional life and identity) is a unique experience and that the terminology fits the concept. Also, 8 hours a day? Where? I am not seeing legal jobs where you can expect to work less than 60 hours a week.

Okay, so let's agree that it is a unique experience to be a mother who also has a career. You seem to be saying that it is in fact harder to be what you call a "working mom." I don't agree with that. I also don't agree that having "just a job for income" is easier than having a professional career. If that's what you're trying to say, I find it patronizing.

It's different for everyone, but mothers who are not employed also have a very difficult job and I think you're over idealizing to say being a "working mom" is harder. Since neither you nor I have children, I don't think either of us is particularly qualified to answer this one, but would love to hear it from others out there if anyone is willing to chime in.

I'm clerking my first year out and my hours will be 8:30 to 4:30 with a one hour lunch break. That amounts to a 7 hour per day job, 35 hours per week. Let's even say I put in one extra hour of work per day and say it's 40. After that I plan to work in legal services which has a similar schedule, as does government and other public interest jobs. So yeah, those hours do in fact exist in the legal world, but not in the corporate legal world of course.

 

[megumic]

I think it's fair to acknowledge it's a different experience, but I don't think one is harder than the other.

I also don't think my preference to not use these words together does any sort of glossing over of anything amounting to any sort of disservice. Part of my distaste for the term is that regardless of whether a mother is employed or not, she is "working" all hours of the day. (So are dads for that matter.) When I become a mom, I'll only work 8 hours a day, but I'm a mom all 24 hours of the day. If we are going to use working mom, "mom" should come first and working should come second. I think it's a very personal choice whether one needs to or prefers to work when she becomes a mother, but I don't think that those who work have it any more or less difficult than those who do not work. Like I said, I don't like to modify "friend" or "daughter" or "wife" with working, so why should "mother" be modified with "working?"

I'm probably interpreting this wrong but just to clarify,

You don't believe that being a working mother is harder than being a stay at home mother? or is your point about the semantics of the words?

Both. I believe that a mother who is not employed has an equally difficult job as a mother who works outside the home. Certainly this will be dependent on the particular family, but I think it's unfair to make the sweeping statement that those who do not work have an easier time than those who work. I've met many mothers who prefer working and feel it is an easier "job" than staying home with babies and toddlers all day.

I also dislike the semantics of the term "working mom" which I explained above.

 

[PilsnPinkysMom]

I think I've read about this "Working Mom" semantics issue in other PS threads over the years.

One definition of work is, "activity as a means of earning income"... And that's how it's meant in the term "working mom." (Or that's how I see it, anyway) I've never met a SAHM who took offense to the term "working mother", as she was probably too busy wrangling three little ones to even care

I don't think it's fair or possible to say that Job + Parenting is harder than SAH... or that SAH is harder than Job + Parenting... or that they're even equal in difficulty! It probably changes on a yearly, monthly, weekly, daily basis. They present totally different challenges and how you view/handle those challenges depends on who you are as an individual.

And as a non-mom, my opinion means $hit... So mommies, please weigh in!

 

[suchende]

I just can't agree. I think the experience of having a career while raising children as a mother (not just a job for income but the broader idea of having a professional life and identity) is a unique experience and that the terminology fits the concept. Also, 8 hours a day? Where? I am not seeing legal jobs where you can expect to work less than 60 hours a week.

Okay, so let's agree that it is a unique experience to be a mother who also has a career. You seem to be saying that it is in fact harder to be what you call a "working mom." I don't agree with that. I also don't agree that having "just a job for income" is easier than having a professional career. If that's what you're trying to say, I find it patronizing.

It's different for everyone, but mothers who are not employed also have a very difficult job and I think you're over idealizing to say being a "working mom" is harder. Since neither you nor I have children, I don't think either of us is particularly qualified to answer this one, but would love to hear it from others out there if anyone is willing to chime in.

I'm clerking my first year out and my hours will be 8:30 to 4:30 with a one hour lunch break. That amounts to a 7 hour per day job, 35 hours per week. Let's even say I put in one extra hour of work per day and say it's 40. After that I plan to work in legal services which has a similar schedule, as does government and other public interest jobs. So yeah, those hours do in fact exist in the legal world, but not in the corporate legal world of course.

Alright, you are right, that statement was too sweeping. My mom had a career (with me) then stayed at home (with my brother and a surgeon husband). For our family, the latter was so much easier than the former it's not even comparable.

All else held equal, I do think a career is harder than a job. Patronizing or not, there are more pressures on people trying to build a career.

If you find a 40 hour/week legal job after your clerkship, congratulations. I've never had a 40 hour/week job. I also don't know a single lawyer who manages to work so few hours (PI, gov't or corporate). Maybe I am looking in the wrong places.

 

[katamari]

Katamari, I am an academic too and got knocked up in October, as did my other female colleagues Too funny. May - July is a great time to have a baby in this job. Does your school offer any sort of matenity leave?

Dreamer, I am very fortunate in that I can get a semester at full pay (not offered to non-TT fac, but all TT fac get this). I am at a 2-3, and I just have to teach the 3 semester to get the 2 semester off with full pay. If I am able to plan this right, then, I can have June-January off and paid. I hope it works. I am charting now to do the best we can. I could have a year off, but the tenure clock doesn't stop and I only get 50% pay for the second semester so this is not likely.

--
To the working mom debate, then, there is no chance that having a child will not negatively impact my career. There is no one in my field's experience or any research that would suggest otherwise. However, it is still possible for me to have a rewarding and meaningful career.

I also think the trade-offs are just different for women who opt out and those who don't. There is no doubt that leaving the workplace penalizes women who do, but for some women those penalties are more acceptable than what they would have to trade off in the home (less time with children, a break from traditional gender ideology, etc.).


Here's my update: in our last department meeting, our chair gave us our teaching schedules for the next four years to accommodate sabbaticals, grant buyouts, etc. I came home and cried (read: wept) to DH because it made me feel like I had to chose between my career and a child. I feel so powerless because I simply cannot tell my colleagues I am planning on parenting, and it is evident that their assumption for my career is one without any children or family leave. While they will support me if I parent, since they are good colleagues and we are very friendly, if I am able to become pregnant, I will not meet their expectations of me as a colleague. And, they will rightfully be upset, because I agreed to these schedules which will have to change (and be more work for them), if I take any leave. There is one possible semester where it wouldn't cause that much reworking but it is fully a year later than DH and i were hoping (which is kind-of a big deal, since it will be when I am 36 instead of 35). It also isn't awesome that all but one of my colleagues is childless-by-choice and the one who has children went back for her PhD later and life and her children were in college when she started. So, it was a tough week. Lots of crying, but I guess that means I am becoming more and more attached to the wanting part of WAW.

 

[erica k]

Katamari--
I'm also an academic, but just starting a post-doc this coming July. Although having a child while finishing the PhD set me back considerably--much of it due to a lack of childcare funds--my schedule was flexible enough that I managed to juggle baby and work without affecting other people (and your career) in the ways that you've mentioned.

It is very stressful to have to plan a pregnancy in this way. People often assume that professors have 3-4 months vacation, but that time is used to work on publications, grant proposals, course development, etc. I am already feeling anxious thinking about how I will deal with work, a newborn, and a toddler next year, but at least I'll be making twice what I do now so I can actually afford childcare.

I hope that everything falls into place for you in spite of so many unpredictable variables. Just know that you aren't alone in trying to juggle a career in academia and plan a family. I'm starting charting and prenatals in a week in the hopes of a May-June 2012 baby. Good luck to you, too!

 

[PilsnPinkysMom]

Little story: The history professor of one of my graduate history courses told me tonight that he stayed home for TWO years when he and his wife adopted their daughter. That was 20-some years ago. It made me think of you PS academics and the struggle with balancing career + family. I haven't a clue to what extent it changed his professional life, but I was pretty flabbergasted by his statement. I'm sure he sacrificed quite a bit, but his wife was the main breadwinner (corporate attorney) and they knew if they adopted/had a child that he would be a SAH-Dad for a short while. I wonder if he faced and flack from colleagues.

 

[MuffDog]

My sister has two kids, and she constantly tells me that it is really friggin hard to work all day and then come home and parent. However, she also says that after mat leave, she is really excited to go back to work to deal with adults, have a full lunch break, chat with friends, etc. So who knows.

I think the pressure on mothers who have jobs outside of the house comes more from the juggling and the guilt. You are constantly trying to keep all the balls in the air, while feeling like you aren't giving each ball the attention it deserves/needs.

Realistically, I would think that staying home with your kids would be like a full time job - lots of things to do and demanding little kids who need you 100% of the time. However, maybe the guilt wouldn't be there - you can focus 100% on your 'job' and be really great at it.

Who knows - it probably sounds ridiculous to have all these "WBW" girls talking about the ins and outs of working/stayathome moms.

yes, I use working moms. haha

 

[kittybean]

I'm clerking my first year out and my hours will be 8:30 to 4:30 with a one hour lunch break. That amounts to a 7 hour per day job, 35 hours per week. Let's even say I put in one extra hour of work per day and say it's 40. After that I plan to work in legal services which has a similar schedule, as does government and other public interest jobs. So yeah, those hours do in fact exist in the legal world, but not in the corporate legal world of course.

How I wish this were true! I am a public interest lawyer that works 60-80 hours a week, and most of my friends who are in public interest work over 50 hours a week at minimum. At one point, I figured out that I was earning the equivalent of $12/hour. With a law degree.

Clerkships do have regular hours, but when you have several opinions to finish, all-nighters aren't uncommon. When my DH clerked, he worked a lot at home. I'm sure there's a lot to be said for that if you're a parent, but that's still time that you can't focus all your attention on your child.

My dad stayed at home with us for about a year while my mom worked. My dad was starting a business from home, but it took things a while to really take off for him. I remember that my friends thought it was really strange that my dad was home, but my mom was not. I didn't think it was that weird, but the reality is that expectations are still very different for fathers and mothers. I think the term "working mom" accurately reflects the fact that women are the ones bearing the brunt of juggling these competing interests in their lives--whether that's fair is another question, of course.

 

[Echidna]

Katamari, I am an academic too and got knocked up in October, as did my other female colleagues Too funny. May - July is a great time to have a baby in this job. Does your school offer any sort of matenity leave?

I came home and cried (read: wept) to DH because it made me feel like I had to chose between my career and a child. I feel so powerless because I simply cannot tell my colleagues I am planning on parenting, and it is evident that their assumption for my career is one without any children or family leave. While they will support me if I parent, since they are good colleagues and we are very friendly, if I am able to become pregnant, I will not meet their expectations of me as a colleague. And, they will rightfully be upset, because I agreed to these schedules which will have to change (and be more work for them), if I take any leave. There is one possible semester where it wouldn't cause that much reworking but it is fully a year later than DH and i were hoping (which is kind-of a big deal, since it will be when I am 36 instead of 35). It also isn't awesome that all but one of my colleagues is childless-by-choice and the one who has children went back for her PhD later and life and her children were in college when she started. So, it was a tough week. Lots of crying, but I guess that means I am becoming more and more attached to the wanting part of WAW.

Kata, I'm really sorry to hear that you've had a difficult week I'm currently a postdoc looking for a permanent position but if someone gave me a teaching plan for the next four years, I'd flip out! Surely your Chair understands that such a long-term plan will require some flexibility and revision? Will all the staff even be there for the next four years?! What if someone (not necessarily you!) gets pregnant or someone's partner gets transferred? I guess I just don't get it.

 

[charbie]

Katamari: I just wanted to jump in and offer you some hugs and support. Im sure you've heard this before, but I thought it would be a good idea to reinforce that people rarely will look back on their life and say, "you know, I wish I had spent more time at work and less with family." I can see in your posts that family is so important to you. You have to just have faith that it WILL work out. Im a few years younger than you, but I was faced with the decision of either advancing my career now or starting my family. I chose to start a family now, bc the younger I am...the longer I have to enjoy my kids and be a part of their lives. Will I for sure be able to max out my potential in my career? Not sure. But I've got 30 years of working life left to figure things out. Plus, your goals and priorities may change as life goes on. You need to live for you...bc as you said...they will be as supportive as possible and you can move on. But don't let this get in the way of your happiness.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Katamari That is a very unusual way for a department to operate from my experience! But there are lots of different organizational models I suppose. We decide our schedules in November for the coming year (i.e., the following May - April) and don't really plan much longer term, and we basically just tell the chair what we want to teach after consulting among our sub-group. It surprises me that a department thinks it can plan so far in advance. Are there any other women in your department? Is it small?

I think having some trail blazer women wrt child bearing makes a lot of difference to the experiences of younger facultly. In the 10 years I have been in academia (starting in grad school), I have seen things change so much. The biggest change happened when the government starting funding 12 months of paid maternity leave (at a large pay cut mind) which was legally allowed to any woman (or parent for that matter), and the Universities got on the ball a few years ago offering substantial top ups for most of that time and also making it possible to stop the tenure clock for one year for each leave. It has changed the entire climate in my University. These leaves have become so common that MEN are taking leave when their kids are born! Among the 7 Assistant profs in my department, all of us having been hired in the last 4 years, 4 of us had/will have kids in our first three years on the job and all took at least one semester leave (two men and two women). In addition, there are simply more women academics now, and that means more people having kids and taking leave. So it has become so much more common. I had my first child on post-doc and am pregnant with my second which will be born prior to reappointment, and it has not affected my career progress at all -- mostly because of the gov't funding for maternity leave and changing social norms. And a supportive spouse who is a true co-parent which allows me to work as much as I need to. But it was a different story before these changes took place. Up until 10 years ago, the norm was to wait until tenure to have kids or have none at all for women. I was blatantly told by a female prof in my undergraduate career NOT to go into academia if I wanted kids because it having both was impossible. That has not been my experience thus far, but it has only changed by women older than me making different choices than their academic ancestors made. And institutional changes. I don't know which comes first -- chicken (women saying screw it and not waiting to have kids) or egg (institutional changes) -- but I am personally a proponent of not putting life on hold for career, and then finding ways to make it work.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I've been thinking a lot about being a mom and having a career. I'm graduating law school next month and I intend to have a career. We also intent to start our family within the next year. One thing I've been thinking about and have decided is that I do not like and will not use the term "working-mom". All mom's are "working" moms, employment or no employment. Plus why are we modifying mom with anything - have you ever heard Dad with a modification?

I started a thread about this topic a while ago when I first started getting hit with the label: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/are-you-a-working-mother.149356/

The interesting thing is that when I am at work, we only very occassionally talk about our kids and our families. It comes up when we talk about vacations, or other non-work things, but the notion of being a "working mother" honestly never comes up. They sure as heck don't call my working male colleagues "working fathers"! But on the whole we are a pretty liberal and feminist profession. It is only when I am interacting with more traditional people that they feel the need to label me and my role in life. And it feels pretty pejorative when they pull out the label to my ears -- the modifier implies both roles are being somehow diminished in my opinion.

I honestly do not find it difficult to balance career and family at all. And the main reason for that is that my husband is a co-parent. He contributes equally to the home and family. And because we share that work, then our careers are easier to pursue. I think that when gender contributions become more equal, and more men step up and fulfill family responsibilities, and women let them and expect it of them, then we will see a huge change in work-family life balance, including the language we use to describe it.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I just can't agree. I think the experience of having a career while raising children as a mother (not just a job for income but the broader idea of having a professional life and identity) is a unique experience and that the terminology fits the concept. Also, 8 hours a day? Where? I am not seeing legal jobs where you can expect to work less than 60 hours a week.

Okay, so let's agree that it is a unique experience to be a mother who also has a career. You seem to be saying that it is in fact harder to be what you call a "working mom." I don't agree with that. I also don't agree that having "just a job for income" is easier than having a professional career. If that's what you're trying to say, I find it patronizing.

It's different for everyone, but mothers who are not employed also have a very difficult job and I think you're over idealizing to say being a "working mom" is harder. Since neither you nor I have children, I don't think either of us is particularly qualified to answer this one, but would love to hear it from others out there if anyone is willing to chime in.

Since I am spamming your thread I will do it one more time I am a mother and I have a career that is central to my identity.

I stayed at home for 10 I enjoyed the first 6 months a lot, but when the novelty of not working wore off, it was mostly boring and monotonous. Yup, I said it. My kid did not fulfill all of my needs, and I am fairly certain that I did not fill all of his either (I am not 4 adults with early childhood education, 11 other toddlers, sport ball, music lessons, art projects every day, and on and on and on). My close female friends, all of whom are professors as well and have 1-2 kids, felt the same way. Love our kids to death, prefer not to stay home full time. And are much happier and fulfilled and better parents when we are working. Some women feel the reverse, and prefer staying home with their kids. But I can honestly say that my sampling of "working mothers" is filled with women who enjoy working much more than staying home full time, and do not find it more difficult to work than stay home.

We have the luxory of being able to afford very high quality child care, though. And have jobs that are personally rewarding and fulfilling. If either of those things were not true, then it would have been a very different story. We also were able to stay home with our kids for a year if we chose, which again changed how we perceived the whole thing. Like so much in life, choice makes a big difference to how one perceived the difficulty of a task.