What is something people don’t know about divorce until they’ve gone through it?

[telephone89]

Wow people are really defensive about being called out over privilege. Just because one has struggles does not mean they do not have privilege.

I will exit this thread, as you don't seem to be able to put yourselves into the shoes of someone with less. There are people who work multiple jobs because they cannot afford to stay home. There are people who give up their vehicles because they cannot afford to stay home. There are people who live in tiny tiny apartments with their families because they cannot afford to stay home. But yes, continue on how being able to live on one income whilst taking care of your home and family is not privilege. There are people living in and caring for their families in poverty and we are arguing about not having privilege on a jewellery forum? C'mon. That's just gross.

 

[Elizabeth35]

I always find it amusing when someone says at home parents are not working.
And it is usually a woman who works outside of the home and pays someone to take care of her children who says this.
So is the person who cares for your child (whether a nanny or daycare worker) working? I believe that is a job, right? They take care of a child for pay.

A person at a daycare center who makes minimum wage is somehow more respected because they are 'working', yet a mom or dad who take care of the same child in their home are 'not working.' Pretty silly in my opinion.

 

[OreoRosies86]

I always find it amusing when someone says at home parents are not working.
And it is usually a woman who works outside of the home and pays someone to take care of her children who says this.
So is the person who cares for your child (whether a nanny or daycare worker) working? I believe that is a job, right? They take care of a child for pay.

A person at a daycare center who makes minimum wage is somehow more respected because they are 'working', yet a mom or dad who take care of the same child in their home are 'not working.' Pretty silly in my opinion.

Bingo!

Wow people are really defensive about being called out over privilege. Just because one has struggles does not mean they do not have privilege.

I will exit this thread, as you don't seem to be able to put yourselves into the shoes of someone with less. There are people who work multiple jobs because they cannot afford to stay home. There are people who give up their vehicles because they cannot afford to stay home. There are people who live in tiny tiny apartments with their families because they cannot afford to stay home. But yes, continue on how being able to live on one income whilst taking care of your home and family is not privilege. There are people living in and caring for their families in poverty and we are arguing about not having privilege on a jewellery forum? C'mon. That's just gross.

You seem to be taking varying family situations and decision making very personally. And is there some rule I’m not aware of that people who live on or below the poverty line don’t go on jewelry forums…? Because I’ve been on PS for a decade and a lot of it when I was tending bar and cleaning houses

 

[winnietucker]

Wow people are really defensive about being called out over privilege. Just because one has struggles does not mean they do not have privilege.

I will exit this thread, as you don't seem to be able to put yourselves into the shoes of someone with less. There are people who work multiple jobs because they cannot afford to stay home. There are people who give up their vehicles because they cannot afford to stay home. There are people who live in tiny tiny apartments with their families because they cannot afford to stay home. But yes, continue on how being able to live on one income whilst taking care of your home and family is not privilege. There are people living in and caring for their families in poverty and we are arguing about not having privilege on a jewellery forum? C'mon. That's just gross.

Just because someone is a SAHP does not automatically mean they’re privileged. Especially when you’re a SAHP because it’ll cost you more to work. This is not uncommon amongst people who earn lower wages. This issue popped up in the pregnancy forums I frequented when I was pregnant. Daycare is not cheap at all and I’m willing to bed the vast majority of lower wage earners cannot bring their kids to work with them. You can still be living at the poverty level while being a SAHP. IMO calling all SAHP privileged discounts how time consuming and expensive it is to raise a child and doesn’t take into consideration that not everyone is a SAHP by choice. This being a jewelry forum is irrelevant because we’re not discussing jewelry.

 

[telephone89]

Just because you have struggles, does not mean you don't have privilege.

And FYI, there are people literally rationing groceries, water, electricity to afford that $5 in gas. My god this is so tone deaf I cant even believe it.

 

[OreoRosies86]

Just because you have struggles, does not mean you don't have privilege.

And FYI, there are people literally rationing groceries, water, electricity to afford that $5 in gas. My god this is so tone deaf I cant even believe it.

The amount of money is not laughable. The notion of hardly seeing my child at all to take home $5 at the end of the week was laughable to me, as it should be to any sane person who would like to be able to raise their child without ending up in a bottomless financial pit to do it. Is there a reason you’re being so insulting?

 

[telephone89]

The amount of money is not laughable. The notion of hardly seeing my child at all to take home $5 at the end of the week was laughable to me, as it should be to any sane person who would like to be able to raise their child without ending up in a bottomless financial pit to do it. Is there a reason you’re being so insulting?

You literally said "The weekly take home pay would have been a laughable amount."

 

[OreoRosies86]

You literally said "The weekly take home pay would have been a laughable amount."

Right, getting paid $5 a week to never see my kid was a laughable concept to me. This is such a weird hill to die on, but ok! You clearly are on some kind of warpath I’m not really interested in, sorry to derail the divorce discussion everyone else, I might start another thread for this particular topic.

 

[telephone89]

Right, getting paid $5 a week to never see my kid was a laughable concept to me.

Right, thanks for clarifying. As I said, a laughable amount to you is rent or groceries (or gas) to someone else. I hope your child is doing well, have a great day.

 

[OreoRosies86]

Right, thanks for clarifying. As I said, a laughable amount to you is rent or groceries (or gas) to someone else. I hope your child is doing well, have a great day.

They’re doing GREAT, thanks! Have an excellent day.

 

[winnietucker]

Just because you have struggles, does not mean you don't have privilege.

And FYI, there are people literally rationing groceries, water, electricity to afford that $5 in gas. My god this is so tone deaf I cant even believe it.

Being a SAHP because you make too little to afford daycare is not a privilege. It does not meet the definition of privilege. It’s unfortunate. Having to exit the workforce because you cannot afford to work is not a privilege. There are long term consequences of being a SAHP - mainly lower earning potential when you re-enter the workforce. In my mom’s situation I know it made her miserable and that she would have preferred to work.

Being a SAHP cause you can and you want to is a privilege. Not all SAHP are privileged. I know I fall into the privileged category because I could be a SAHM even though I opt to work.

FWIW - when that all happened my step dad took on another job, sold his car for a beater (well multiple beaters cause they’d keep breaking and he’d have to replace them), and then started buying gas siphoned from wrecked cars to help stretch the budget. My mom and I went to college around the same time with a couple overlapping years and I ended up working multiple jobs because I needed to pay my own expenses/ put myself through college. At my busiest I worked 1 full time job, 3 part time jobs, and I went to college. It was terrible and I was always on the verge of a mental breakdown. I know what it’s like to be poor. I just don’t agree with your opinion.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

Not sure that I want to jump into this ring of fire but I think it’s worth mentioning that some families sacrifice a lot to be able to have one parent stay home. There are life choices than enable different outcomes. For example we live in a very small house, sold a car and have lived with one car the past twelve years, no vacations etc. When the kids were little we bought a lot of secondhand, still do in fact.

So there may have been a certain amount of privilege but there was also a good deal of sacrifice at play as well.

 

[Lookinagain]

That’s what I do now, post divorce. And yes, it’s very difficult. The only thing I’d say to women or mothers considering the stay at home gig is, make sure if divorce or death or some other situation arose tomorrow, that you could make a living for yourself.

Some of the best advice my father gave me was to make sure I could always take care of myself and not rely on someone else.

 

[telephone89]

Being a SAHP because you make too little to afford daycare is not a privilege. It does not meet the definition of privilege. It’s unfortunate. Having to exit the workforce because you cannot afford to work is not a privilege. There are long term consequences of being a SAHP - mainly lower earning potential when you re-enter the workforce. In my mom’s situation I know it made her miserable and that she would have preferred to work.

Being a SAHP cause you can and you want to is a privilege. Not all SAHP are privileged. I know I fall into the privileged category because I could be a SAHM even though I opt to work.

FWIW - when that all happened my step dad took on another job, sold his car for a beater (well multiple beaters cause they’d keep breaking and he’d have to replace them), and then started buying gas siphoned from wrecked cars to help stretch the budget. My mom and I went to college around the same time with a couple overlapping years and I ended up working multiple jobs because I needed to pay my own expenses/ put myself through college. At my busiest I worked 1 full time job, 3 part time jobs, and I went to college. It was terrible and I was always on the verge of a mental breakdown. I know what it’s like to be poor. I just don’t agree with your opinion.

Again, I repeat, just because you have struggles does not mean you do not have privilege.
Just like there is white privilege, male privilege, cis privilege, etc etc etc. And yes there can still be sacrifice in privilege, including SAHP. Don't be like this guy!



Haha now that I've gone into meme territory I know I gotta head out. Recognize your privilege and peace out!

 

[yssie]

Being a SAHP because you make too little to afford daycare is not a privilege. It does not meet the definition of privilege. It’s unfortunate. Having to exit the workforce because you cannot afford to work is not a privilege.

It is a privilege, though.
Because if “you” - not you, whomever - didn’t have a partner or supporter able and willing to provide financially, “you” wouldn’t be able to stay at home. “You” would have to work, perhaps multiple jobs, to feed and clothe and house yourself and any dependents.
Which is exactly what so many single mothers have to do.
And I agree that it’s very unfortunate.

 

[winnietucker]

Again, I repeat, just because you have struggles does not mean you do not have privilege.
Just like there is white privilege, male privilege, cis privilege, etc etc etc. And yes there can still be sacrifice in privilege, including SAHP. Don't be like this guy!

You’re missing my point. I’m probably missing your point. We’re going to go in circles... But my stance is that making too little to afford to work and then being (basically) forced to stay home and do the unpaid work of taking care of your child(ren) does not make you privileged. Just because one parent is working in the household does not mean that household can actually afford to have a SAHP and it doesn’t mean they aren’t living in poverty. Making blanket statements ignores everyone’s different circumstances. We saw in this thread how some people look down on SAHP. I’m not here for that. IMO labeling all SAHP as privileged is a real jerk move. You don’t know why they’re a SAHP and I’m sure the person who is one but doesn’t want to be wouldn’t appreciate being told how privileged they are.

 

[winnietucker]

It is a privilege, though.
Because if “you” - not you, whomever - didn’t have a partner or supporter able and willing to provide financially, “you” wouldn’t be able to stay at home. “You” would have to work, perhaps multiple jobs, to feed and clothe and house yourself and any dependents.
Not working outside the home is a choice and a privilege.
And I agree that it’s very unfortunate.

I see your point. And I am sorry for escalating this thread. I’m a little touchy on the subject because of my mom and people’s opinions of her being a privileged parasite because she was briefly a SAHM. I better bow out on this one. No ill feelings toward anyone I disagreed with.

 

[yssie]

It would be wonderful if people could have the choice to work outside the house or stay home without worrying about their and their dependents’ health and welfare. I think that is possible in parts of the world where people still live in large familial communities and there actually is a village to take care of the “home”. But that’s not true for anyone I know in America in 2022.

No hard feelings toward anyone here either. We all have our opinions based on our unique pasts. No one should feel like they’ve got to apologize for that.

 

[Lookinagain]

I'll make one more point that I'm aware of. Some people do choose to work and pay for daycare even though daycare takes up almost all of their pay. They do it perhaps for the benefits, or for the idea that daycare basically ends at kindergarten and yes, there is after school care to pay for, but that's generally less than full time daycare. So they choose to stay in the work force, bite the bullet and bring home almost nothing after paying daycare, because they feel that once the kids are in school it will be easier and they won't have lost 5 years of career advancement. Again, just another point that everyone makes their choices for different reasons. And I truly don't think any of them are harder or easier than the other, but most often, the choice suits the person and their circumstances.

 

[Gussie]

I admit it. I am privileged parasite sponging off my husband by choice. To each his own, right?

Bless your hearts, I have to get back to my BonBons and soap operas now.

 

[seaurchin]

I think my husband and I both just did whatever fit in best at the time with our particular situation and family, as I'd imagine most people do.

I stayed home with mine and sometimes did little jobs I could do with them around, then got a professional job when they were older. My husband's job had crazy hours but he managed to fit in side jobs as needed too.

The women are most often the ones who have to find ways to fit in around everyone else, so being quick to judge how that plays out in their family either way (without a word about what the men do, naturally) is just embedded misogyny imo.

I recall a couple of women who made snotty remarks to me about whatever I was doing at the time. But it was just one more thing that made me realize they didn't belong in my life. One of them never had kids but has about 50 dogs and cats in the house and a nice collection of husbands too and the other had kids who moved far away from her as soon as possible. So there?

I did feel somewhat trapped and left behind sometimes but I think my husband did too. Raising a family is hard, however you divide up the work. But looking back, I do feel like staying home was good for our kids. I'm very pleased with how they turned out and we're still a close knit family. Which is not in any way meant as a comment on what anyone else does but just that I'm satisfied with our choices, in the end. I don't miss the job or even know anyone from the job anymore. The extra money was nice though and it also resolved my feelings of missing out.

Now I did know one woman who dropped her kids off at daycare daily, then drove back home. She said it was because she had to cook and clean and stuff. I was tempted to take a snip at her, purely out of jealousy lol. To be fair, she and her husband and kids seemed pretty happy to me. I don't think her mother-in-law liked her, though.

 

[yssie]

I want to say one more thing. @Ionysis I was the sole breadwinner for one year, not by choice. No human kids but eight furbabies, many with medical needs. It was THE most difficult year of my life. We had savings, we have supportive families, but it was still the most frightening and crushing year of my life. The number of nights I couldn't sleep worrying about what might happen if I lost my job or couldn't work and one of us had a big bill... Medical bills, maybe one of the animals, maybe some house damage that we couldn't push off, car accidents and big vehicle repairs... I worked myself into the ground that year trying to "protect" my income against unforseeable threats. Literally gave myself chronic stomach issues from the stress - that I'm still dealing with years and years later.

Anyone, woman or man, who chooses to take full responsibility to provide financially for dependents is someone I respect. I know from my own experience that it's a weighty mental burden. That for whatever reasons is almost never brought up.

 

[seaurchin]

Back to the original topic, as a child of divorce, I would say to be sure not to forget your kids, if any. I recall being pretty much cast aside as my parents got on with their new lives. In a lot of ways, the path my life took because of it, as well as my relationships with them, never recovered. All those cute little sayings people like to say about how resilient kids are, are not necessarily true at all.

 

[OreoRosies86]

Back to the original topic, as a child of divorce, I would say to be sure not to forget your kids, if any. I recall being pretty much cast aside as my parents got on with their new lives. In a lot of ways, the path my life took because of it, as well as my relationships with them, never recovered. All those cute little sayings people like to say about how resilient kids are, are not necessarily true at all.

Absolutely. And whatever choices you make, make them with the idea that time with them is something you will NEVER get back.

 

[diamondyes]

Something I don’t believe has been really emphasized is how having a baby or being a SAHP can REALLY affect your income, forever. Traditionally the man would stay at work and the woman would take up to a year or more off, and her income would forever be on a different trajectory. This, to me, is why it’s not a 1:1 comparison when debating staying at home or going back to work- even if the dollar amounts are the same in the short term, the overall affect it can have on a career is HUGE.

(And I added a random graph- there is stuff like this everywhere if you want to get academic about it- but this is just to get the point across).

I also think it’s impossible to compare being a SAHP or a working parent and to try and determine which is harder. Some jobs are really stressful, some jobs are really fun! Some babies are good sleepers, some are sleep stealers that can rob you of your sanity.

Long story short (and to bring it back to the original topic) if a partner has stayed home to raise children, it would absolutely affect their earning potential and I see nothing wrong with a court ruling taking that into account.

 

[Lookinagain]

Might be more career equalizing if instead of it usually being the woman who is the SAHP for even the first 5 years, if it was split between parents. So each took 2.5 years out of their career instead of one taking the entire 5. Just a thought.

 

[Ionysis]

Back to the original topic, as a child of divorce, I would say to be sure not to forget your kids, if any. I recall being pretty much cast aside as my parents got on with their new lives. In a lot of ways, the path my life took because of it, as well as my relationships with them, never recovered. All those cute little sayings people like to say about how resilient kids are, are not necessarily true at all.

That is so, so sad @seaurchin. I think if I got divorced I’d wait until my daughters were grown before I dated again. I have witnessed a fair few parents dive straight into their new exciting lives and almost see the kids as an encumbrance with the new partners.

I think if I got divorced I would feel extraordinarily lonely. When my husband and I separated for a time lots of friends, couple friends, simply disappeared. It was uncomfortable for them to be around me both because I wasn’t part of a couple and because I was going through pain. After we reconciled we didn’t get back in touch with those friends. My single friends, and two married couples only, were great. People seem to feel that marital issues might be “catching” and they don’t want to risk acquiring them by proximity. They don’t tell you that about divorce.

 

[nala]

One thing I’ve thing I learned about divorce is don’t finalize or agree to anything until you stop being angry, hurt, or whatever emotion is compelling you to divorce. I know. Easier said than done. But if you file for separation to protect yourself financially from new debt, etc, and if you have time on your side when it comes to the 10 year rule ( soc sec and pension, alimony etc)—the payoff for waiting will be worth it. My ex and I waited out our emotions and thanks to that, we are still good friends who always put our DD first. With a cool head, common sense and compassion prevail. We both got what we wanted and see what you call an amicable divorce. My DD was the winner in all of this. She got 4 parents instead of two. And she is who she is bc all 4 adults involved never let jealousy or insecurity prevail.

 

[OreoRosies86]

That is so, so sad @seaurchin. I think if I got divorced I’d wait until my daughters were grown before I dated again. I have witnessed a fair few parents dive straight into their new exciting lives and almost see the kids as an encumbrance with the new partners.

I think if I got divorced I would feel extraordinarily lonely. When my husband and I separated for a time lots of friends, couple friends, simply disappeared. It was uncomfortable for them to be around me both because I wasn’t part of a couple and because I was going through pain. After we reconciled we didn’t get back in touch with those friends. My single friends, and two married couples only, were great. People seem to feel that marital issues might be “catching” and they don’t want to risk acquiring them by proximity. They don’t tell you that about divorce.

On the other hand, wonderful step parents can be a huge benefit to the child’s life. Especially if one partner left an abusive or unstable marriage.

 

[nala]

I have been working full time my entire adult life, and the two years I was a SAHM was the hardest I ever worked. It’s a shame that people view that work as parasitic or privileged. I found it to be as intensely difficult as it was rewarding.

When I first had my DD, my ex asked me if I wanted to make sacrifices so that I could be a SAHM. I said, do you?? Would you want to be a SAHD? Bc I couldn’t wait to go back to work! I was going insane in the 6 weeks of maternity leave. I felt so incompetent and Ill-equipped to be a full-time mom! Couldn’t wait to drop her off with the expert—my dear mom—whom we paid to babysit her. No regrets. And I do applaud you all who choose to stay home out of love and sacrifice! It’s a hard lifestyle—not just a job! I want to add. My mom watched my DD and a 3 other grandchildren. When mom went on vacation or needed time-off, you should have seen how my sisters and I dreaded to substitute for mom, lol. We were not able to deal with 4 littles!!! We offered to pay each other off double time to avoid our turn but none of us took that bribe, lol.