What would you do if a vendor privately solicited your business through your involvement on this sit

[Gypsy]

Well, they got my email because in the four years I was working on my re-set I contacted EVERY vendor on here (some multiple times) for ideas, qoutes, settings. Plus, I helped them out once (in return for nothing) with a design of theirs for their catalog at my own initiation. But I have not had any contact with the company for over a year.

I've never purchased from them however, and the people I dealt (with one exception) with are no longer with the company. I have never had contact with this person, though yes I have contacted this vendor. But I do not consider that as opening the door for solictation.


And T-gal. NO I DO NOT POST ON OTHER FORUMS. And the email made it clear that my post on PS was the reason I was being contacted.

And since it is hard to judge without details. Here are the details. All of them.

Date: 2/23/2009 8:19:01 PM
Author: Allison D.

Date: 2/23/2009 7:33:47 PM
Author: Gypsy
The first Storm. Straight solicitation.

I would have reacted differently to the second. But also, the vendors I have relationships with... wouldn't do even that. They know that if and when I am ready, I know they are there. And if I don't contact them, there is a reason... whatever that might be at the time.

I'd swiftly report this to the PS Admin. As described, it's an egregious violation of the PS rules, and Ira is correct that similar instances contributed to PMs going away.

In premise, a vendor shouldn't have a way to contact a PSer privately since emails, etc. aren't allowed. I'm not clear on how he'd come by the needed information to do so, but it's out of bounds either way.

This is supposed to be a site where consumers can get information without feeling like prey. What you've described goes against that purpose.

Alj, and please note I'm refer to Alj, not Allison... you are part of the reason why I hesitated in saying anything. I've always had great respect for Whiteflash, and actually WAS considering them for my pendant design IF I decided to go custom (haven't gotten quite tha far yet and didn't feel right contacting vendors until I had a clearer idea of what I wanted).

Here, if the email. IN FULL... and I will report this to Andrey and Ali myself and they can decide if it's a misuse of PS.

This is my thread that prompted this: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/frustrated-new-project.108121/

Dear Layla,

I hope you don't think me too imposing, but I noticed your little pendant project on Pricescope Would you allow us to see if we can assist you. You have some amazing design ideas and I think this would be an interesting project.

I see your budget is in the $1200.00 area. Let us know if you like yellow gold, white gold, color stones, diamonds.

This should be loads of fun. Of course I will have one our diamond sales consultants and the CAD department team up to see what we can dream up for you.

Also don't hesitate to let me know if I am being too presumptuous, but I occasionally spot some interesting ideas on the channel and think they would be nice for the rest of the consumers. We have some pendants on our site which we need to retire so this is a good idea to bring out something fresh which has a good price point.

If our involvement is a good idea, don't hesitate to send us some of your final contenders

Best regards,

Debi Wexler

I consider this direct solicitation. And I it bothered me very much, because I've always held WF in high regard.

And I thought about dealing with this privately. But, as my post here was used to solicit me and violate forum rules, I thought it appropriate to state my grievance on here. Maybe it wasn't the right decision. And Andrey and Ali if it wasn't please remove and understand my desire was protect PS from being abused.

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 2/23/2009 9:27:32 PM
Author: Moh 10
If you report it, it may happen again.
What''s a PS vendor going to get from PS, a slap on the wrist?

PS vendors pay to be here.
PS is not going to bite the hand that feeds them, well not very hard anyway.

If you post the name of the vendor here it will NEVER happen again.

Vendors hate bad publicity, even if it is just reporting the truth of their actions.

Being new, you wouldn''t know this, but PS has had a similar instance previously, and yes they absolutely did act swiftly to dismiss the vendor.

It doesn''t make sense to bite the hand that feeds you UNLESS that hand is ridiculed with cancer. Then it becomes a liability to the survival of the entire body, and the hand has to be sacrificed to save the patient.

 

[Moh 10]

Alj, sending out spam is offensive! - regardless of if a person bought from WF in the past or not.
I would never do business with a spamming firm ever again.

I realize times are tough, but that's exactly why Whiteflash must stop spamming their mailing list.
Most people hate spam and sending spam does WF more harm than good.
For every sale resulting from spam WF may loose 100 potential sales and never know it.

John Pollard, Leslie and Brian Gavin leaving was a huge blow to WF's reputation, but IMHO learning that Whiteflash is guilty of spamming is even worse.

(Edited)

 

[purrfectpear]

I love Whiteflash, but I have to say that Debi was wrong in contacting you. She should have known better. True she said she hoped she wasn''t being presumptious, but the fact is, she was

 

[strmrdr]

ok I see why you were upset.
Not only was it soliciting your business but your help in making a new design for their site.
That is wrong on 2 points.
1: It made you unhappy, if it was just pointing out an existing design and you had a relationship then I wouldn''t see it as that big a deal.

2: It offers to make a business relationship beyond consumer/vendor which is bad if you want to post as a consumer. I have to struggle with this on many occasions to stay on the consumer side and not have to go pro on PS.
It puts you in a bad position.
There have been consumers forced off of PS for doing designs for a vendor when it wasn''t disclosed soon enough. (that is another story and this isn''t the time or place)

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 2/23/2009 9:47:06 PM
Author: Moh 10
Alj, sending out spam is offensive! - regardless of if a person bought from WF in the past or not.
I would never do business with such a firm ever again.

I realize times are tough, but that''s exactly why Whiteflash must stop spamming their mailing list.
Most people hate spam and you are doing WF more harm than good.
For every sale you get from your spam you may loose 100 potential sales and never know it.

John Pollard, Leslie and Brian Gavin leaving was a huge blow to WF''s reputation.
To me, learning that Whiteflash sends out spam is even worse.

ALJ DID NOTHNG, NOTHING WRONG.

I appreciate the defense. But MOH, there is a reason I addressed my comments to Alj, the PSer who has been here for much longer than I have been and whom I respect immensely.

If Debi, who owns the company, makes an error... that doesn''t mean everyone at WF is to blame. I do not feel that way. But I do feel that if the person heading the company is doing something wrong... it sets a terrible example. Especially the head of a vendor so respected on here, and who uses posts made by members to violate both the letter and the spirit of PS.

 

[Kaleigh]

As well intentioned as that was, it''s breaking the rules.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 2/23/2009 9:54:18 PM
Author: strmrdr
ok I see why you were upset.
Not only was it soliciting your business but your help in making a new design for their site.
That is wrong on 2 points.
1: It made you unhappy, if it was just pointing out an existing design and you had a relationship then I wouldn''t see it as that big a deal.

2: It offers to make a business relationship beyond consumer/vendor which is bad if you want to post as a consumer. I have to struggle with this on many occasions to stay on the consumer side and not have to go pro on PS.
It puts you in a bad position.
There have been consumers forced off of PS for doing designs for a vendor when it wasn''t disclosed soon enough. (that is another story and this isn''t the time or place)

Exactly.

AND I the one time I did help WF with a design (again I offered and contacted them because I saw a flaw with one of their designs and wanted to help them fix it), I promptly and IMMEDIATELY contacted Andrey about it. I NEVER posted about the incident or the design, and got NOTHING in return (and did not buy the design myself or profit from it in anyway).

 

[Moh 10]

Gypsy and Alj, my apology.
Nothing personal against Alj.
(I edited my post to remove the reference to Alj sending the spam)
Thanks for setting me straight.

But she IS the paid voice/face of WF here.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 2/23/2009 9:59:46 PM
Author: Moh 10
Gypsy, my apology.
Nothing personal against Alj.

But she IS the paid voice/face of WF here.

I know. And that makes it very hard. I have IMMENSE respect for Alj, the person and the PSer. That is why this was so hard for me. I sat there staring at the email for a very long time in disbelief.

Thank you Moh, I appreciate it.

 

[Moh 10]

No problem.
I have to be more careful when I post.

Spam is one of my pet peeves, especially from businesses I have dealt with.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 2/23/2009 10:02:45 PM
Author: Gypsy

Date: 2/23/2009 9:59:46 PM
Author: Moh 10
Gypsy, my apology.
Nothing personal against Alj.

But she IS the paid voice/face of WF here.

I know. And that makes it very hard. I have IMMENSE respect for Alj, the person and the PSer. That is why this was so hard for me. I sat there staring at the email for a very long time in disbelief.

Thank you Moh, I appreciate it.

I know, that is the hard part, so I know how you feel. But gosh if anyone could do this job, it''s her. What a great job she does. I give her huge claps, it''s not easy. She''s a class act herself.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 2/23/2009 10:04:17 PM
Author: Moh 10
No problem.
I have to be more careful when I post.

Spam is one of my pet peeves, especially from businesses I have dealt with.

No worries. It takes much grace to admit when you are wrong. I appreciated it very much.

Ditto Kaleigh.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 2/23/2009 10:26:33 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

That is what I am thinking too.

 

[grapegravity]

Date: 2/23/2009 10:33:10 PM
Author: Skippy123

Date: 2/23/2009 10:26:33 PM

Author: diamondseeker2006

That is what I am thinking too.

Me too...

 

[motownmama]

I''m just sorry this all happened - I love PS b/c it''s so fun & positive!

 

[K9]

Wow. I''d be upset too - you did the right thing Gypsy.

 

[Jelly]

Wow, I''m so sorry that this happened to you Gypsy. I wouldn''t have expected this at all.

 

[decodelighted]

LOL ... she sure picked the WRONG girl to solicit. It just shows Debi must not be paying very close attention to PS goings-on.

As to the original question ... if it was a vendor I'd contacted before & not had a big falling out with, I don't think I'd be alarmed or offended if they offered help on a new announced project ... especially if I'd pitched my new proposed project as a "hey, everyone help!" kind of scenario. I do think she crossed a boundry. Broke a rule. But it didn't seem pushy to me & had a flattering pitch:

* hey you're creative
* our stock pieces are lame-o
* how 'bout we collaborate on your dime?
* and then we'll market to all (we'll keep the profits, thxxxxxxx)

 

[Deelight]

Date: 2/23/2009 10:34:14 PM
Author: grapegravity

Date: 2/23/2009 10:33:10 PM

Author: Skippy123

Date: 2/23/2009 10:26:33 PM


Author: diamondseeker2006

That is what I am thinking too.

Me too...

Me three, I am even trying to think of your other recent posts and reasons that may have lead to something like that being approriate but I can''t. Not good

.

 

[Allison D.]

Gypsy, I appreciate how difficult it must have been for you in knowing how to handle this, and I appreciate your consideration for my feelings.

When we were talking hypotheticals, I inferred the gist of your thread to mean "some random vendor I''ve never had contact with before saw my post on PS and contacted me to solicit my business." That would be a most clear violation of PS rules, and vendors who have done that previously have been banned.

The lines are less crystal clear it''s communication to a customer who has previously initiated contact. It''s pretty common in most businesses to reach out to people who''ve initiated a relationship with your company. I still hear occasionally from the realtor I worked with to buy my house four years ago. My mortgage broker drops me an email every now and then to tell me about things that might be helpful to me. When my hairdresser changed salons, she reached out to let me know. All of these are pretty standard and acceptable practices because I reached out to those people first to initiate some dialogue and therefore established a relationship. Even if I didn''t end up buying from them (so wasn''t technically a client), *I* initiated the contact.

I know most of you know that Debi is an extremely infrequent visitor to Pricescope territory; she enjoys the energy here, but as CEO of the company, she just doesn''t have enough hours in the day. She relies on me (and John before me) to be the helpful Whiteflash voice on Pricescope. Since she isn''t a frequent visitor here, she''s not as thoroughly well-versed on what falls within the rules and what doesn''t.

Seeing her email here, I recognize this as part of her recent efforts on customer outreach and maintaining the personal touch that people have come to love about Whiteflash. Her email wasn''t an attempt to wilfully circumvent Pricescope rules, and it wouldn''t be a breach of PS rules had she not specifically referenced Gypsy''s recent thread.

That is where I feel it ran aground, and I''m sure this will be a learning experience for her. In fairness, though, I''ll say that most of us who participate as vendor contacts here have made similar errors from time to time. PS Admin has been pretty intuitive in letting us know when we''re straying into the wrong territory, and most of us have been very receptive to their correction. One would think the rules are pretty cut/dried, but they aren''t always and one can still violate the rules even when he is acting with the best of intentions.

Debi sincerely wants to live within the rules here, so I know she''ll learn much from this experience and I''m grateful that it''s been brought to light.

 

[blastdoor]

hmmm...

i think most of us agree that a rule may have been broken...

but on the other hand i also think most of us agree that WF/ALJ is still a good / great vendor even though a mistake may have been made..

so i hope we can also all agree that we should not let this bother us anymore than it already has, especially for Gypsy, whom this has actually happened to... and trust that the same mistake would not happened again...

personally i would not strike WF out from my choice-vendors list coz i am still really impressed with the ring and service i got from them before...

and to Gypsy, I think you are a very brave person and your actions admirable...

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 2/23/2009 10:54:13 PM
Author: blastdoor
hmmm...
but on the other hand i also think most of us agree that WF/ALJ is still a good / great vendor even though a mistake may have been made..

I agree with this. I love working with WF.

 

[Gypsy]

Thank you Allison.

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 2/23/2009 10:45:51 PM
Author: decodelighted
LOL ... she sure picked the WRONG girl to solicit. It just shows Debi must not be paying very close attention to PS goings-on.

As to the original question ... if it was a vendor I''d contacted before & not had a big falling out with, I don''t think I''d be alarmed or offended if they offered help on a new announced project ... especially if I''d pitched my new proposed project as a ''hey, everyone help!'' kind of scenario. I do think she crossed a boundry. Broke a rule. But it didn''t seem pushy to me & had a flattering pitch:

* hey you''re creative
* our stock pieces are lame-o
* how ''bout we collaborate on your dime?
* and then we''ll market to all (we''ll keep the profits, thxxxxxxx)

Deco, you have (as usual) picked up on the essence of the sincere intention. As Gypsy mentioned earlier in this thread, she contacted us (Whiteflash, through her then-current sales rep Lesley) for a quote on a project, and from that contact a relationship developed. It wasn''t a single "hey, what''s the price?" inquiry but a series of email exchanges over several months'' time.

As many of you know firsthand, those conversations usually lead to other ideas and thoughts. Most of you know will remember that Gypsy had scattered diamond earrings on her possible to-do list at one point; when she mentioned that to Lesley during an exchange, Lesley told her that it was a timely mention because those were in development with us at that moment. Gypsy expressed interest in seeing our offering when it was ready, so Lesley provided CADs to her. She disliked a few elements of the design and told Lesley what features she''d change. Her input was good and ultimately was factored into our catalog offering. As Gypsy noted earlier, there was no compensation of any kind for her input.

I agree wholeheartedly, though, that however well-intentioned she was, the reference to the current PS thread did cross a boundary, and I know she''ll learn from that and take care not to repeat the mistake going forward.

 

[FrekeChild]

 

[Regular Guy]

I don't suppose now anyone will be more likely to hold them to the 30 day period for review she promised 2 months ago (bottom page 1).....

...no..check that. You couldn't notice it if you weren't looking for it...but by gosh if they didn't jam in...in a different typeface, under where the headline is that you have 10 days...that you DO have 30 days to review their ACAs.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

Date: 2/23/2009 10:26:33 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

What I am thinking as well

 

[blastdoor]

Thanks RG... I never really hang out at "Hang Out", and if not for your post would''ve totally miss that absolutely beautiful thread.. i enjoyed it through and through.. i even read through the WF "shop with confidence" page link and yes.. they do have 30 days for ACA and some Experted Selected..

oops... i think that might''ve been a thread-jack? ok.. back to original topic..