Who are the top democratic presidential candidates for 2020?

[voce]

I was genuinely confused by this. I believed I was taking your words on the page quite literally. Please do re-read the above. I have several times, and I really believe it's understandable that I came to the conclusion that I did--there is nothing in the above about your mother and your relationship with her around those issues. Plus, my own opinion, for whatever it's worth, is that no matter who we elect, those countries/channels will find a way to adapt it to their narrative.

I apologise if you think my response was based on reading between the lines--that wasn't my intent.

@jaaron I said I'm not worried about Sanders creating a socialist country, so much as creating the perception that Americans voted for socialism. I expressed a personal worry. The "Do you really want.." part, the "you" was a rhetorical you. And it's my opinion that the authoritarian presses would have a field day ridiculing American democracy. At no point did I say I was using this as the basis for making my decision in the presidential election, nor call for other people to use it as the basis for how they elect the president. The context was selection of a Democratic candidate for the primaries; I very much would like to have another candidate, not Bernie. Doesn't mean that I'm voting for Trump. I don't see how a literal reading of the words leads to the conclusion you drew.

But then again, English is my second language, and who knows how many other people read it the way you did. I'm reminded of Trevor Noah's stand-up routine where he says "I speak English, not American." His taco story is hilarious.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Which/what systemic problems are you talking about Voce? poverty? well yeah it would help those in poverty, I am in favor of expanding welfare and diminishing cheats that rich can do to pay taxes to offset the expansion of welfare for those in need. Systemic problems are just that, a problem with the system.

Welfare does not help those in poverty. All welfare does is prolong those whom are already in poverty. I haven't known anybody prosperous under the welfare system.

I have said this a thousand times in the past...I'm glad that my family didn't fall into the welfare trap in 1969 when we were highly qualified, instead of going on welfare we work our way out of poverty by starting with under the minimum wage jobs.

Had my mom gone on welfare then, IMO there is a high possibility that I would be on welfare too.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Having been abroad many times in the last 10 years, believe me our image in Europe is terrible,

Really??. How is their economy doing?..the answer... The European economy is dead today with little or no growth at all!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Yes I am not saying it is a cure, what I a saying is it is a stepping stone to a healthier life for kids, as you know, there is no more lifetime assistance Voce, there is the 5 year limit, thank you Bill Clinton. I do know that some people are just not employable too.

Yes, thank you B. Clinton for the booming economy under your Presidency... creating more jobs is the key to prosperity not creating more welfare recipients.

 

[jaaron]

Welfare does not help those in poverty. All welfare does is prolong those whom are already in poverty. I haven't known anybody prosperous under the welfare system.

I have said this a thousand times in the past...I'm glad that my family didn't fall into the welfare trap in 1969 when we were highly qualified, instead of going on welfare we work our way out of poverty by starting with under the minimum wage jobs.

Had my mom gone on welfare then, IMO there is a high possibility that I would be on welfare too.

I'm always reluctant to engage with you DF, because I don't know whether you're trolling or so controlled by Fox News that you can't take in other information, but, you do realise that 1969 was a very different time in the US, right? For thousands of reasons, society was changing fast, it was a time of growth and opportunity. I don't doubt that your family were hard workers, but there was plenty of room in society for upward mobility.

I'm not arguing that creating a permanent underclass reliant on welfare is a good thing, but as the richest country on earth, to not help people get the services, education and health care they need to succeed is nothing short of immoral. And harking back to what your family was able to accomplish in 1969 as a basis for that philosophy is disingenuous and unempathetic.

 

[the_mother_thing]

... but as the richest country on earth, to not help people get the services, education and health care they need to succeed is nothing short of immoral.

Not ‘engaging’, but I want to point out this sentence - and specifically the word ‘need’ - as a point of contention that many interpret differently. ‘Need’ vs ‘want’ are two very different concepts. I believe most people are genuinely willing to assist people who are truly in ‘need’ (e.g., those who are incapable of doing or providing for themselves). What is being proposed by most of the current Dem candidates isn’t about ‘need’ though, and therein lies the problem.

I liken it to the difference between ‘caregiving’ vs. ‘caretaking’ ... the first being giving assistance to someone incapable of doing something for themselves, while the latter is doing something for someone who is capable, thus you’re taking away their responsibility to provide care for themselves. The “give vs. teach” a man to fish concept ...

ETA: And just to be clear, I’m not suggesting someone shouldn’t get an education, see a doctor, or have access to ‘services’; rather, I do not believe it is everyone else’s automatic responsibility to pay for things for everyone who is otherwise capable of obtaining those things on their own, even if the road might be shorter/longer and tougher/easier for some than others because of their parents, surroundings, sphere of influence, etc.

 

[Calliecake]

We all “need” health care.

I read the quote below on twitter yesterday that summed things up in a way that I believe half the country understands. The other half, not so much.

The Coronavirus makes clear what has been true all along. Your health care is as safe as that of the worst-insured, worst-cared for person in your society. It will be decided by the height of the floor, not the ceiling.

 

[Matata]

Biden won SC. I feel as though I'm upside down on a roller coaster without a safety belt.

 

[Calliecake]

Tom Steyer will be announcing he is dropping out of the race this evening.

 

[kenny]

If they win the nomination, I just hope Biden or Sanders don't die of old age before November.

Oh wait! ... ... you mean ... we expect these old farts to live 4 more years AFTER January 2021?

In this case, ageism is wise.
Folks, hows bout we elect someone expected to live for 4 more years.
Like, uhm, Duh!

WTF is wrong with these stooppid libs?
But then, stoopid cons elected tRump.

Brains on both sides are turned off.
America, oh America, where did you go?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Brains on both sides are turned off.
America, oh America, where did you go?

To Cuba if Sanders wins in Nov.

 

[kenny]

To Cuba if Sanders wins in Nov.

Maybe I'll start smoking ... cigars.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Wait, I thought ‘old white men’ were supposed to be evil?


And if Bernie gets the nod, ‘family game night’ will likely see a rapid resurgence to help educate young voters on the future realities of their choices.

 

[House Cat]

Biden won SC. I feel as though I'm upside down on a roller coaster without a safety belt.

Is that because you have been listening to his interviews since then? Whew! That guy is all over the place! He makes no sense!

 

[House Cat]

Lying dog faced pony soldier. It’s the only thing I think of when I see Biden. He’s rude. He doesn’t know how to treat the American people. He also seems to be losing his mind. We don’t need another insane president.

 

[AGBF]

I totally disagree with you on Biden, House Cat. I want Trump out of office and if Sanders is nominated, that isn't going to happen. I am blessing the people of South Carolina for giving him (Biden) a second chance, I hope he names Kamala Harris as his running mate. That ticket would have a shot at getting Trump out of office and helping to win the House and Senate, too.

 

[House Cat]

I totally disagree with you on Biden, House Cat. I want Trump out of office and if Sanders is nominated, that isn't going to happen. I am blessing the people of South Carolina for giving him (Biden) a second chance, I hope he names Kamala Harris as his running mate. That ticket would have a shot at getting Trump out of office and helping to win the House and Senate, too.

It’s pretty close. According to RealClearPolitics, Biden has a 5.4 spread for winning against Trump and Bernie has a 4.9 spread.

I don’t like Biden’s moderate plan for climate change. It won’t get the job done. Also, as said above, I don’t like the way he treats people. There’s another video that the daily show did about the way he treats voters but I can’t post it due to profanity.

I’m with you about beating Trump though. When election time comes, I will be voting democrat...believe me.

 

[AGBF]

It’s pretty close. According to RealClearPolitics, Biden has a 5.4 spread for winning against Trump and Bernie has a 4.9 spread.

I read your entire post and I hear you. I wanted to say one thing in reply, however. Remember that the popular vote doesn't matter. The electoral college is all that matters. Trump is liked in the heartland.

Here's what a Sanders-Trump map could look like | CNN Politics

With Bernie Sanders looking more and more like the potential Democratic presidential nominee, the good people at the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia have released their first take on what the electoral map might look like in a matchup between the senator from Vermont and...

www.cnn.com

 

[the_mother_thing]

Just in the last couple weeks, Biden has claimed he was running for Senate, promoted a senate candidate for President, falsely stated 150 million people have been killed by gun violence in the U.S., falsely claimed he was arrested trying to see Mandela, and the list goes on. He’s more known as the ‘geezer of gaffes’ than any forward-looking policies if elected ... the last two debates, rather than talk about what he plans to do (if elected), all he keeps shouting is he wrote ‘this’ bill, was part of ‘that’ movement. Hell, I’m wondering what Barrack Obama actually did the 8 years he was in office, because if you listen to Joe, he was the one doing all the work.

But by all means, let Joe ”keep punching at it, punching at it, punching at it...”

 

[the_mother_thing]

And apparently, just this morning, he’s showing - and saying - that he does not have the energy for this, much less what’s to come:

 

[AGBF]

Just in the last couple weeks, Biden has claimed he was running for Senate, promoted a senate candidate for President, falsely stated 150 million people have been killed by gun violence in the U.S., falsely claimed he was arrested trying to see Mandela, and the list goes on. He’s more known as the ‘geezer of gaffes’ than any forward-looking policies if elected ... the last two debates, rather than talk about what he plans to do (if elected), all he keeps shouting is he wrote ‘this’ bill, was part of ‘that’ movement. Hell, I’m wondering what Barrack Obama actually did the 8 years he was in office, because if you listen to Joe, he was the one doing all the work.

But by all means, let Joe ”keep punching at it, punching at it, punching at it...”

I don't have the time or energy to recite what Donald Trump has done in his time. If I had to be alone with one of them on a desert island, I'd pick Joe Biden. He is a kind and honorable man. He is also an expert on foreign policy and not stupid. Not stupid is important if one has to converse for years on a desert island.

Joe Biden is known for gaffes, but he doesn't draw in Alabama on a map showing the path of a hurricane.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I don't have the time or energy to recite what Donald Trump has done in his time. If I had to be alone with one of them on a desert island, I'd pick Joe Biden. He is a kind and honorable man. He is also an expert on foreign policy and not stupid. Not stupid is important if one has to converse for years on a desert island.

Joe Biden is known for gaffes, but he doesn't draw in Alabama on a map showing the path of a hurricane.

This thread isn’t about Trump; it’s about the Dem candidates. But feel free to divert and distract from reality all you want ...

Politics aside, Biden’s cognitive abilities are clearly declining; is that what you want in the WH, leading the country? Personally, I think it’s a sad someone hasn’t pulled Joe aside and ‘had a talk’ with him. This tells me one of two things: the Dem party is either in denial or isnt capable of detecting the obvious signs, or they flat out do not care and just want to ‘win’ (but not nominate a socialist) no matter how badly it shreds away at Biden’s dignity ... whatever he has left after this campaign. I don’t ‘hate’ Joe Biden, I legitimately feel sorry for him. I see the same signs in him as I saw in my grandparents who suffered with dementia & Alzheimers.

If I were a Dem, I darn sure wouldn’t vote for him in a primary without knowing who his veep pick is, because THAT is who would be running the country if he gets the nod & wins in November. But I suppose if you just want to beat Trump, it doesn’t matter who his VP is ... and that says a lot more about ‘you’ as a voter.

 

[the_mother_thing]

... I hope he names Kamala Harris as his running mate. That ticket would have a shot at getting Trump out of office and helping to win the House and Senate, too.

You mean the same “Kamala Harris" who failed to raise money and connect with voters in her own party, much less independents and moderate reps? Yea, great pick!

 

[AGBF]

This thread isn’t about Trump; it’s about the Dem candidates. But feel free to divert and distract from reality all you want ...

Thank you for making sure I post about the correct things, TMT.

 

[Matata]

s that because you have been listening to his interviews since then? Whew! That guy is all over the place! He makes no sense!

That's certainly a factor but I was referring to the rapid flip flopping of who was the darling of the moment likely to win the nomination. Warren started strong, faded, had a resurgence; Pete surprised in Iowa; Sanders started to walk on water; Biden (the heir apparent) imo, rapidly cycles between astute discourse to baby talk in the same sentence. His win in SC didn't surprise me but doesn't fill me with optimism. Biden's debate performances have been mostly, imo, weak and I think he will implode going half-empty headed against totally empty headed trump. Biden's inconsistency in public discourse is disturbing.

If we could combine Klobuchar's sensibility with Warren's mighty warrior determination, and Buttigieg's steely intelligence, we'd have a candidate I'd feel good voting for.

 

[Arkteia]

@jaaron I said I'm not worried about Sanders creating a socialist country, so much as creating the perception that Americans voted for socialism. I expressed a personal worry. The "Do you really want.." part, the "you" was a rhetorical you. And it's my opinion that the authoritarian presses would have a field day ridiculing American democracy. At no point did I say I was using this as the basis for making my decision in the presidential election, nor call for other people to use it as the basis for how they elect the president. The context was selection of a Democratic candidate for the primaries; I very much would like to have another candidate, not Bernie. Doesn't mean that I'm voting for Trump. I don't see how a literal reading of the words leads to the conclusion you drew.

But then again, English is my second language, and who knows how many other people read it the way you did. I'm reminded of Trevor Noah's stand-up routine where he says "I speak English, not American." His taco story is hilarious.

When my son started raving about Sanders, I said, “btw, this socialism is exactly what I took you away from as a child”.

But my real concern is, every socialist measure in a capitalist country backfires. No, I understand, something needs to change, but the results are worse.

When Obama pushed the price of the AppleCare onto insurance companies, because, you know, you can’t take the money away from huge private sectors,what we saw were rising deductibles. And now Obamacare is halfway gone, but the deductibles stay.

I feel very sorry for elderly people who paid taxes and ended up in the donut hole with Medicare, and bad coverage, so I agree with both Sanders and Klobuchar, I am just scared things will get worse, not better, because you have to be FDR, not Sanders, to understand how things work.

 

[Arkteia]

@Matata, I would vote for Buttigieg. He is young, and he is smart.
It is a shame that...you know, what I hear “Midwest won’t vote for him”. Such a horrible shame that it even matters in the country in 21st century. I hope he runs again. We are slowly changing.

 

[Matata]

I would vote for Buttigieg. He is young, and he is smart.
It is a shame that...you know, what I hear “Midwest won’t vote for him”. Such a horrible shame that it even matters in the country in 21st century. I hope he runs again. We are slowly changing.

The first I heard of him was when he was a guest on The Colbert Show many many months ago and I posted here that I liked him and was excited to see where he'd land in the campaign. If, by some miracle, a dem defeats trump, I hope that person finds a place in the administration for him.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I read your entire post and I hear you. I wanted to say one thing in reply, however. Remember that the popular vote doesn't matter. The electoral college is all that matters. Trump is liked in the heartland.

Here's what a Sanders-Trump map could look like | CNN Politics

With Bernie Sanders looking more and more like the potential Democratic presidential nominee, the good people at the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia have released their first take on what the electoral map might look like in a matchup between the senator from Vermont and...

www.cnn.com

Trump vs Sanders wouldn't even be a close race.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I don't have the time or energy to recite what Donald Trump has done in his time. If I had to be alone with one of them on a desert island, I'd pick Joe Biden. He is a kind and honorable man. He is also an expert on foreign policy and not stupid. Not stupid is important if one has to converse for years on a desert island.

Yup, Hunter Biden agrees with you!