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Who are the top democratic presidential candidates for 2020?

I have more Native American blood in me than Elizabeth Warren. :lol:
 
Dancing Fire said:
The top 3 richest people on earth are "white liberals". The liberals have all the :$$):
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I know we live in a post fact society, which means liberals can both have all the :$$): and be lazy welfare moochers who need to get a real job... BUT... Trump's voters were wealthier than Clinton's:

"Among people who said they voted for Trump in the general election, 35 percent had household incomes under $50,000 per year (the figure was also 35 percent among non-Hispanic whites), almost exactly the percentage in NBC’s March 2016 survey. Trump’s voters weren’t overwhelmingly poor. In the general election, like the primary, about two thirds of Trump supporters came from the better-off half of the economy."

And I know it won't matter, but you weren't even right about your original claim. Slots #1 and #2 belong to major GOP donors, the Waltons and the Koch Brothers.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/33-richest-people-on-earth-a7734396.html
 
redwood66 said:
The top 3 richest people in the world are liberals just like DF said.

Jeff Bezos
Bill Gates
Warren Buffet

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...tmarkzuckerbergcarlosslimwealth-a8163621.html
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When I looked at sources, they have the same 30 people in the top, shuffled differently depending on what the stock values are that day and how they calculate. There's no away around it: there are some filthy rich liberals. And some filthy rich conservatives. The list is pretty split. The idea that liberals have all the cash is nonsense.

Do Bezos, Gates and Buffet donate to the Democrats like the Kochs, Mercers, and Waltons donate to the GOP? I honestly don't know. I know Tom Steyer is a rich liberal who likes to use his money for political purposes. If I never see one of his ads again it'll be too soon.
 
redwood66 said:
You are correct that it is pretty evenly split and I don't begrudge anyone success or denigrate them because of it, unless it is George Soros who is determined to cause chaos in the world and especially the US. He is evil and is hellbent on his agenda. He can't die soon enough for me.
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I think Soros was listed as the biggest loser on the Forbes 2018 list. So good news, I guess? I don't mind him and I think most of the hatred toward him is boogey-man level stuff. The only billionaire I really look up to though is Buffet. I love that he lives in the house in Nebraska he's lived in for decades, and he's giving his money to charity upon his death. Given how some of his relatives have reacted, I have to say he's made the right choice!
 
vintageloves said:
I think Soros was listed as the biggest loser on the Forbes 2018 list. So good news, I guess? I don't mind him and I think most of the hatred toward him is boogey-man level stuff. The only billionaire I really look up to though is Buffet. I love that he lives in the house in Nebraska he's lived in for decades, and he's giving his money to charity upon his death. Given how some of his relatives have reacted, I have to say he's made the right choice!
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One might think Soros to be an altruistic philanthropist if they like his (and Popper's) idea of an open society and global one world view. But to someone like me who values the individual, his determination to fund and push those views at all costs, which includes violence, are a detriment to society.
 
Maybe a rematch b/t Trump and HRC in 2020? :whistle:
 
redwood66 said:
You are correct that it is pretty evenly split and I don't begrudge anyone success or denigrate them because of it, unless it is George Soros who is determined to cause chaos in the world and especially the US. He is evil and is hellbent on his agenda. He can't die soon enough for me.

Edit - Tom Steyer is frustrating but he is no Soros.
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Can you give me one credible news source that shows Soros is determined to cause chaos in the world? Genuinely interested, because I've been looking for one. I can see how what he believes and does and the way he spends his money clashes with your political positions, but can't see how it's any different than the Mercers and the Kochs.

I've been thinking about your comment above about how he can't die soon enough for you, and my first reaction was anger and outrage, but now I just feel sad. I'm really sorry that your beliefs and life experience are such that you're wishing death on an elderly Holocaust survivor. I think Robert Mercer's pretty evil, but I don't wish that on anyone.
 
By the way, I really like Kamala Harris, but not sure she's ready yet. I like Adam Schiff, but he doesn't seem to be positioning for a run. Cory Booker and Kirsten Gillibrand leave me cold- I feel like they're both lightweights in some way. I like Warren, but don't think she can win. Like Beto, but he's not ready. Think Gavin Newsom likes himself, but I feel like there's something sleazy about him. Like Biden but think he's too old.

Michelle Obama, I don't know. I'd be surprised if she runs.
 
jaaron said:
Can you give me one credible news source that shows Soros is determined to cause chaos in the world? Genuinely interested, because I've been looking for one. I can see how what he believes and does and the way he spends his money clashes with your political positions, but can't see how it's any different than the Mercers and the Kochs.

I've been thinking about your comment above about how he can't die soon enough for you, and my first reaction was anger and outrage, but now I just feel sad. I'm really sorry that your beliefs and life experience are such that you're wishing death on an elderly Holocaust survivor. I think Robert Mercer's pretty evil, but I don't wish that on anyone.
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People funded by him are paid to sow discord. The woman screaming at Flake in the elevator makes quite a bit working for one of his groups so that was not a spontaneous thing. Anyone who does this from any party is disgusting. I probably should have held my tongue about him dying but he is not a good man just because he survived the Holocaust. Sorry if you are offended by that.

Edit - I have always wondered why people have to be paid to be activists. Actual employment opportunities for people to get paid to come out for this or that march or protest or whatever.
 
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jaaron said:
By the way, I really like Kamala Harris, but not sure she's ready yet. I like Adam Schiff, but he doesn't seem to be positioning for a run.
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rotflmao2.gif
...Trump can only wish!
 
redwood66 said:
People funded by him are paid to sow discord. The woman screaming at Flake in the elevator makes quite a bit working for one of his groups so that was not a spontaneous thing. Anyone who does this from any party is disgusting. I probably should have held my tongue about him dying but he is not a good man just because he survived the Holocaust. Sorry if you are offended by that.

Edit - I have always wondered why people have to be paid to be activists. Actual employment opportunities for people to get paid to come out for this or that march or protest or whatever.
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Can you provide any reputable source to back up the allegations above? I keep seeing this stated as fact without any evidence.
 
redwood66 said:
https://nypost.com/2018/10/01/look-who-was-behind-the-jeff-flake-elevator-setup/
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I'm sorry, Red, but you are buying a conspiracy theory and I know for a fact that you're smarter than that. That's not a reputable source showing any causation between Soros and the things you are accusing him of (how do we know Ana Maria Archila didn't take the job she's in precisely because she already feels so strongly about these issues? I know lots of people who work for causes they passionately believe in despite the fact they could earn a lot more money doing other things.). It's an op-ed taken from the once respectable National Review with an inflammatory headline that gives no supporting evidence- I give it less weight that this one, that says the opposite, and is from one of the few news sources to be deemed neutral by Mediabias
https://www.ft.com/content/7f93856e-9c55-11e7-9a86-4d5a475ba4c5

When I ask for a reputable source backing up the allegations, I mean something other than an opinion piece. You don't have to agree with Soros's opinions or how he spends his money, but if you're going to demonise someone this way, don't you think you should look for a little bit more evidence?
 
jaaron said:
When I ask for a reputable source backing up the allegations, I mean something other than an opinion piece. You don't have to agree with Soros's opinions or how he spends his money, but if you're going to demonise someone this way, don't you think you should look for a little bit more evidence?
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Evidence wasn’t required to demonize Kavanaugh, but how about an admission? Might that work for you?

https://freebeacon.com/issues/soros...ivist-group-takes-credit-flake-confrontation/

And from their own website, owning to their receipt of Soros’ funding:
Billionaire George Soros has funded liberal organizations intent on bringing confusion, disarray and trouble to the Republican National Convention in Cleveland next week.

And they’ve already had some victories.
...
Last weekend, the Center for Popular Democracy (CPD), a progressive organization that was given $900,000 by Mr. Soros’s Foundation, held a People’s Convention in Pittsburgh, to organize social justice movements ahead of the political conventions both in Cleveland and Philadelphia.
...
Republicans beware, for the Soros zombies are coming and they’re well funded and organized.
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https://populardemocracy.org/news-and-publications/beware-soros-zombies

That whole ‘posting’ is a rallying cheer celebrating their ability - with Soros’ funding - to disrupt conservatives’ events and bully their point across America. And there are several on their website. These protests aren’t everyday citizens ‘exercising their rights to free speech’. They’re paid protestors, plain & simple. And their proud of it. And Soros supports them financially. He’s no different than what many proclaim the NRA to be.

And no, these two phony pawns weren’t Flake’s constituents, as some on here alluded to when it went down. :roll:
 
Whoa, a lot of lying in this report, personal opinion, right wing opinion.

The republicans ruined ACORN just terrible. Shame on them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Community_Organizations_for_Reform_Now
https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...fe-ruined-him-and-now-he-gets-100-000/273841/

The organization is allowed to fund whatever groups they wish:

https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/open-society-foundations/

You don't like Soros, I don't like Mercer's and their Heritage Foundation, ugly dark money either. Rich people are allowed to do what they want with their money.

https://www.heritage.org/staff/rebekah-mercer

and @the_mother_thing let's not just pick on Soros, clean up your own house first.

https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/superpacs.php

https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/indexpend.php?strID=C00504530&cycle=2018
lotsa good info here MT.



redwood66 said:
https://nypost.com/2018/10/01/look-who-was-behind-the-jeff-flake-elevator-setup/
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the_mother_thing said:
Evidence wasn’t required to demonize Kavanaugh, but how about an admission? Might that work for you?

https://freebeacon.com/issues/soros...ivist-group-takes-credit-flake-confrontation/

And from their own website, owning to their receipt of Soros’ funding:


https://populardemocracy.org/news-and-publications/beware-soros-zombies

That whole ‘posting’ is a rallying cheer celebrating their ability - with Soros’ funding - to disrupt conservatives’ events and bully their point across America. And there are several on their website. These protests aren’t everyday citizens ‘exercising their rights to free speech’. They’re paid protestors, plain & simple. And their proud of it. And Soros supports them financially. He’s no different than what many proclaim the NRA to be.

And no, these two phony pawns weren’t Flake’s constituents, as some on here alluded to when it went down. :roll:
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Erm, right. Excellent example of lack of rational thought in your whataboutism. When Soros is nominated to a lifetime Supreme Court seat, then, certainly, a one week FBI investigation into this will be appropriate. In the meantime, he is a billionaire spending his money to promote political causes that he believes in. He funds foundations and PACs. They employ people and promote action. Just like the Mercers and the Kochs. Is it really any different from this?
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/18/us/politics/heritage-foundation-clerks-judges-training.html

And people saying that Soros is paying protestors doesn't make it true. I'm asking for some evidence and/or compelling information that doesn't sound like something out of an alt right conspiracy theory manual.

Amusing that Jacob Wohl is a player here. He had what I think you could call a bad day yesterday.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/soros-paid-march-for-our-lives-protesters/
 
So you are saying Soros and his foundation(s) are BAD and Mercer's foundation(s) are good? Give me a break on that one. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. (my mom would say)..

Are you saying that Archila's assault wasn't true? Your rhetoric is very damning. That she works for a grassroots organization makes her a GOOD orator. Let's not blame the victim. There is no reason why a person who is a liberal left leaning woman cannot approach Flake or any public official, to infer she is an employee of George Soros and making it sound nefarious is a typical right wing move.. A + B doesn't equal C, it's let's just infer what we think it is, on our side.. not critical thinking.

Yes my link DOES have democratic PACs that is the whole point, throwing mud and dirt and innuendo at Soros is just that.




the_mother_thing said:
Soros was the topic of the discussion. There are PACs/SuperPACs on both sides. The point here was paid protestors funded by Sorros, and those two phony Flake protestors.

PS - your link contains quite a few Democrat PACs as well ... again, they’re on both sides.
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Tekate said:
So you are saying Soros and his foundation(s) are BAD and Mercer's foundation(s) are good? Give me a break on that one. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. (my mom would say)..

Are you saying that Archila's assault wasn't true? Your rhetoric is very damning. That she works for a grassroots organization makes her a GOOD orator. Let's not blame the victim. There is no reason why a person who is a liberal left leaning woman cannot approach Flake or any public official, to infer she is an employee of George Soros and making it sound nefarious is a typical right wing move.. A + B doesn't equal B, it's let's just infer what we think it is.

Yes my link DOES have democratic PACs that is the whole point, throwing mud and dirt and innuendo at Soros is just that.
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Whole lotta words you’re putting in my post that I did not state, so I won’t bother responding to most of it.

As for Archila, I’m entitled to my opinion of her as well as the antics of the organization she works for as a result of her own behavior and actions. Just because someone - at some time - was a victim of something doesn’t give them a pass for their later behaviors/actions.
 
You are indeed, so how do you segue from her working for one of many organizations that George Soros helps funds to her being paid by Soros to do the Flake confrontation? Here's where we disagree, I do think anyone has a right to be heard if they were assaulted, raped etc at anytime in their lives. Your statement denies the victim free speech. To you her organization is 'antics' to me her organization is helping keep America free.

the_mother_thing said:
Whole lotta words you’re putting in my post that I did not state, so I won’t bother responding to most of it.

As for Archila, I’m entitled to my opinion of her as well as the antics of the organization she works for as a result of her own behavior and actions. Just because someone - at some time - was a victim of something doesn’t give them a pass for their later behaviors/actions.
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Tekate said:
You are indeed, so how do you segue from her working for one of many organizations that George Soros helps funds to her being paid by Soros to do the Flake confrontation? Here's where we disagree, I do think anyone has a right to be heard if they were assaulted, raped etc at anytime in their lives. Your statement denies the victim free speech. To you her organization is 'antics' to me her organization is helping keep America free.
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This isn’t rocket science. She was there as part of her JOB - organizing protests and protestors. She gets paid to act like a rude, belligerent whackadoo and organize other rude, belligerent whackadoo actors. There were videos after the Kavanaugh hearings that came out showing this group doing exactly that in the halls of the Senate building. It’s what that organization and others like it/they’re affiliated with do.

She chooses to work there. That she is/is not a victim of anything is inconsequential and irrelevant to me; she chose to make it a public issue in carrying out the ‘duties’ of her job. That’s her choice/right. And it’s my choice/right to think what I do of her based on what/who she represents herself as/to be; that’s not denying her ‘freedom of speech’ in the least. She and her cohorts clearly won’t let anyone or anything deny her/them from screaming at the top of their lungs about whatever the positions are of the person signing their paychecks.
 
I’m so tired of listening to @Redwood and @the_mother_thing constantly insinuating that women are liars. I think you both need to wake up. It’s not 1950 anymore, no matter how hard you are trying to bring us back there. Hopefully the election will show you just what women think about Kavanaugh being seated and the way Dr. Ford was treated. I was proud of the women standing in the hallways during the hearing.


I would love to see Harris and Biden on the ticket.
 
How do you know it was part of her job? Your view of her and what her job entails is based on your desire to wish it to be rather than what it is. Her focus is Latin America, LGBT rights.. that is far from her being a paid protester.

This is what her organization works on:

https://populardemocracy.org/our-work/issues/all

her bio:

https://populardemocracy.org/about-us/board

Her job entails lobbying. She is authentic and as much as you want to slant and state false information as it's your perogative, it's part of the problem we have in America, the fake news, the lying. You insist you are not born yesterday etc.. but just because you want something to be doesn't mean it is. It's fake.


the_mother_thing said:
This isn’t rocket science. She was there as part of her JOB - organizing protests and protestors. She gets paid to act like a rude, belligerent whackadoo and organize other rude, belligerent whackadoo actors. There were videos after the Kavanaugh hearings that came out showing this group doing exactly that in the halls of the Senate building. It’s what that organization and others like it/they’re affiliated with do.

She chooses to work there. That she is/is not a victim of anything is inconsequential and irrelevant to me; she chose to make it a public issue in carrying out the ‘duties’ of her job. That’s her choice/right. And it’s my choice/right to think what I do of her based on what/who she represents herself as/to be; that’s not denying her ‘freedom of speech’ in the least. She and her cohorts clearly won’t let anyone or anything deny her/them from screaming at the top of their lungs about whatever the positions are of the person signing their paychecks.
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Calliecake said:
I would love to see Harris and Biden on the ticket.
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I agree that this ticket would have the best chance of beating Trump in 2020.
 
Tekate said:
How do you know it was part of her job? Your view of her and what her job entails is based on your desire to wish it to be rather than what it is. Her focus is Latin America, LGBT rights.. that is far from her being a paid protester.

This is what her organization works on:

https://populardemocracy.org/our-work/issues/all

her bio:

https://populardemocracy.org/about-us/board

Her job entails lobbying. She is authentic and as much as you want to slant and state false information as it's your perogative, it's part of the problem we have in America, the fake news, the lying. You insist you are not born yesterday etc.. but just because you want something to be doesn't mean it is. It's fake.
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I’ve "led the horse the water" ... stay thirsty if you want.
https://www.harpersbazaar.com/cultu...aria-gallagher-interview-women-who-dare-2018/
Ana Maria Archila: I had been one of the organizers of the protests for months. My organization [The Center for Popular Democracy] has been using these tactics of trying to take our stories to the senators, either by trying to find them in the hallways or in the elevators, or going to their offices. Most of the time they're not there so we tell stories until the police come. They arrest some of us, or they make us move.
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Calliecake said:
I’m so tired of listening to @Redwood and @the_mother_thing constantly insinuating that women are liars. I think you both need to wake up. It’s not 1950 anymore, no matter how hard you are trying to bring us back there. Hopefully the election will show you just what women think about Kavanaugh being seated and the way Dr. Ford was treated. I was proud of the women standing in the hallways during the hearing.
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If you’re really mad about how Ford was treated, you should vote Dems out of office. They betrayed her confidence and ‘outed’ her and - in partnership with her lawyers - used her as a pawn, and she/they allowed it.

The rest of your post ... SSDD ... and not worth responding to.
 
the_mother_thing said:
If you’re really mad about how Ford was treated, you should vote Dems out of office. They betrayed her confidence and ‘outed’ her and - in partnership with her lawyers - used her as a pawn, and she/they allowed it.
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Yup, w/o Feinstein's leak her story would not be out in public.
 
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