Why Food Stamps Are NOT A Scam

[Laila619]

Heaven forbid that poor people want to be part of a community; or want to eat a steak or enjoy something. Ribeyes should only be for the rich and entitled. Poor people should only eat poor people food, right?

If someone is taking me out to dinner, I don't order the most expensive thing on the menu just because I'm not paying. I also don't order a bunch extra to take home and feed my friends.

If someone can use their benefits to buy steak and lobster or feed their neighborhood, they either 1) are getting too much in benefits, or 2) don't need the benefits to begin with. The point of social aid is to be temporary help for times when people need it. It is supposed to get them through until they can stand on their own two feet. It isn't supposed to allow them to live frivolously. And yes, steak is frivolous.

Or they are making a sacrifice, and going without food for the sake of being able to contribute to their community.

Why do you feel like its ok for you to determine what is frivolous for another person? Would you feel the same if someone more rich than you said that you shouldn't be able to have a mortgage and still purchase diamonds? f you have debt, even 'understandable debt' like a mortgage (that the government has had to remedy) or government subsidized student loans, should you be allowed to buy a frivolous luxury good like a diamond?

There are standards in place to determine eligibility. I'm grateful to live in a country that values freedom, where the government and the citizens can't exclude me from buying a certain cut of meat because I'm too poor to be allowed the choice to eat steak for one dinner and ramen for the rest.

Because like amc said, it's not their money and they are not the ones footing the bill. We taxpayers are. When they are spending *their* money, they can buy whatever they desire.

Plus it's just plain old common sense. If someone was on public aid and they came to this forum wanting to buy a $15k Leon e-ring, wouldn't you think that might not be the best use of funds?

I don't begrudge anyone public aid, as long as it's used responsibly and appropriately.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="ksinger|1396481233|

Why do I work DF? Or so many of the people here. Almost all, actually. Except...you, perhaps?

Why DO people work? What motivates them to NOT work?

Seriously, anyone here "encouraged to not work" by the giddy thought of government benefits? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller??

Yeah, thought not.[/quote]



What motivates them to NOT work?...I have already answered that Q on my previous post above b/c of..." extra government benefits"

You know what's funny?...according to some PSer I am wrong to subsidize my daughters for not letting them grow up, but it is OK for our government to keep on subsidizing the poor instead of creating more jobs so that can get off public assistance.


Seriously, anyone here "encouraged to not work" by the giddy thought of government benefits? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller??

Seriously, aren't you asking that Q on the wrong forum?.. I doubt any PSer would be on public assistance.

 

[iLander]

Here I am again, with those pesky facts.

Officially, the amount of money lost to underground trafficking is estimated to be 1.3 percent annually. That is down from more than 4 percent in the 1990s when paper coupons had not yet been replaced by electronic benefit cards, called E.B.T.'s, in the program that is formally known as the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, or SNAP.

“It’s a small percentage of the program, but I don’t tolerate it, and I worry about it because I don’t want the American public to unfairly paint the millions of people who play by the rules,” said Kevin Concannon, the Department of Agriculture under secretary who oversees the program.

“Most of the people I know use food stamps, but 90 percent of the people who are on food stamps need them,” said Reginald Davis, the owner of the store.

The bigger issue, he said, is why poor people are being targeted at all.

“They make a bigger deal of people trying to sell $200 worth of food stamps than they do over a banker who steals $10 million,” he said. “You come out here and look around and then tell me you’re going to sweat someone for that. People here got nothing.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/19/us/food-stamp-fraud-in-the-underground-economy.html?_r=0

So, we are talking about a very small percentage. But why are we talking about it at all?

ksinger said it very well: Because kicking those below you is easier than taking on the real a**holes above, that's why. And by distancing yourself mentally and morally from people in those circumstances, you can delude yourself that YOU aren't in any danger of becoming THEM. It's a sop to make us who are in more precarious situations than we want to admit, feel better. I'D never make those horrible choices!! But the fact is, if you'd lived their lives, you likely would. Yes, you and me and most here, won the lucky sperm contest and just don't wish to admit it.

 

[iLander]

I think I have a unique perspective because I went from Rich - Poor - Rich. A severe illness in the 1970's wiped me out. All my assets were gone.

I slowly recovered from the illness in the mid-1980's, and went on disability welfare checks and food stamps during the times of illness and recovery.

Then, things slowly got better, and I became rich again through work and investing. I have much gratitude for the food stamps and welfare program!

Would Obamacare have helped you with your illness? If it was available at the time?

 

[iLander]

Agreed. Maybe they would be more careful with their spending and business practices if they knew our government wouldn't just bail them out. Fear of the possibility of failure is and bankruptcy would be the greatest incentive for them. However, it was our government that demanded the banks give out home loans to anyone who walked through their doors, so... it seems to be a viscious cycle.

I said that my husband is a conservative. He, therefore, tends to take the political position that you do. Being an employee, however, his political opinions are not solicited before governmental policy decisions are made. I am interested in the bank bailout as a social phenomenon. I see that our society does not let big institutions fail, does not let the rich fail. It really couldn't care less if the poor, the middle class, the elderly, and the disabled, all fell into abject poverty and suffered, however. As long as the districts were gerrymandered so as to allow everyone in office to stay there.

AGBF
[/quote]

Exactly right.

I've seen the gerrymandering maps. They're down to the level of single lots being in one "district" and the house next door being in another "district". It should be illegal.

 

[Maria D]

Right. Its shocking to me that people criticize those on food stamps for buying junk food--realistically, its the only affordable option. Fruits and veggies at the grocery store are comparatively more expensive than junk food, unless you shop at a farmers market, which is a luxury in itself because most farmers market vendors are cash only, and are certainly very unlikely to take food stamps.

As was mentioned before, the children in those families are on free lunches, so they only have to provide 11 meals/child/week. The parents (assuming there are two parents) would need 21 meals/each if they eat every meal each day. Assuming they have three children, the grand total is 75 meals per week. If they're getting $800/month, that's over $10 for each meal. That's a lot.

Hmmm, looks like an exercise in math is needed here.

3 Kids: 3 kids X 11 meals/week = 33 meals/week; 4.34 weeks/month (on average) X 33 meals/week = 143.22 meals/month for the kids.
2 Parents: 2 parents X 21 meals week = 42 meals/week; 4.34 weeks/month X 42 meals/week = 182.28 meals/month for the parents.

Total number of meals per month = 325.5
800/325.5 = $2.46 per meal

And this would be only during the months that school is in session - unless your community provides free breakfast and lunch for the summer months too. If not, that comes out to 455.7 meals/month for a whopping $1.76/meal.

People can afford lobster, rib-eye and beer on this budget? Freakin' amazing, my hat's off to them! My husband and I spend about $150/week including household products, pet food, wine and beer. We eat out a couple of times a week so that would be for about 38 meals/week, give or take.

I've never done this before but I just calculated our avg. per meal cost (only for meals eaten at home) and it comes out to $4.28. Not bad, since we had grilled filet mignon for dinner tonight and 50 cents of that was a can of cat food - for the cats of course!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Heaven forbid that poor people want to be part of a community; or want to eat a steak or enjoy something. Ribeyes should only be for the rich and entitled. Poor people should only eat poor people food, right?

If someone is taking me out to dinner, I don't order the most expensive thing on the menu just because I'm not paying. I also don't order a bunch extra to take home and feed my friends.

If someone can use their benefits to buy steak and lobster or feed their neighborhood, they either 1) are getting too much in benefits, or 2) don't need the benefits to begin with. The point of social aid is to be temporary help for times when people need it. It is supposed to get them through until they can stand on their own two feet. It isn't supposed to allow them to live frivolously. And yes, steak is frivolous.

Or they are making a sacrifice, and going without food for the sake of being able to contribute to their community.

But she can!... by getting a job then treat the whole neighborhood with her own $$$ instead of taxpayer's money.

 

[braga123]

I work at an urban school district where 99 % of my students get free breakfast and lunch. In the summer, they offer free lunch to any student under 18. I can't imagine that their grocery bills being are so high with all of this free lunch, and esp. because on weekends, they are lining up at IHOP for a costly breakfast. After school, these kids head for Starbucks to buy themselves a 3-4 dollar cup of coffee. These same students have Iphones, get their nails done twice a month, and wear expensive tennis shoes. Many of these parents are on welfare, WIC, low-income housing and food stamps. Many of these parents reproduce irresponsibly without stopping to plan how they will provide for their 6th child, financially or emotionally. These children grow up in a cycle of poverty. Many of them are teen parents and head straight for the welfare lines, knowing each benefit all too well. Some are even on their second child. I'm not exaggerating. For those who want to pursue a higher education, financial aid is extremely generous, and hands out money to the welfare recipients to the extent that these students do not have to work a day in their lives while they are in college. Meanwhile, the students who come from hard working middle class families, who barely earn a dollar over the poverty threshold, get very little financial aid assistance, and work their way through college, and graduate in 4 years because they are paying for it. Those on 100% financial aid, who do not work, who are products of of the welfare system, typically graduate in 7 to 8 years IF they graduate, without paying a penny. I think the welfare system create a cycle of poverty by assisting already ignorant families with poor decision-making skills to the extent where in their little world, they are better off working less and reproducing more for added benefits. Struggling is not a bad thing...many times, it is the best motivator. I have noticed that the students who excel in school, are for the most part, those that come from families who work for their every dollar.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="Laila619|1396483652|

Plus it's just plain old common sense. If someone was on public aid and they came to this forum wanting to buy a $15k Leon e-ring, wouldn't you think that might not be the best use of funds?

I don't begrudge anyone public aid, as long as it's used responsibly and appropriately.[/quote]


Yep!..

 

[msop04]

Right. Its shocking to me that people criticize those on food stamps for buying junk food--realistically, its the only affordable option. Fruits and veggies at the grocery store are comparatively more expensive than junk food, unless you shop at a farmers market, which is a luxury in itself because most farmers market vendors are cash only, and are certainly very unlikely to take food stamps.

As was mentioned before, the children in those families are on free lunches, so they only have to provide 11 meals/child/week. The parents (assuming there are two parents) would need 21 meals/each if they eat every meal each day. Assuming they have three children, the grand total is 75 meals per week. If they're getting $800/month, that's over $10 for each meal. That's a lot.

It seems that we're having a trees v. forest discussion. I am surprised that you have brought up the topic of children. What about spring break, summer vacation, winter break? Or an after school snack? I am incredulous to me that I live in one of the greatest, richest countries in the world, and that some people here don't want poor children to have too much food or food that is too nice. To each his own.

You are completely missing the point... again. I have never said that I don't want anyone to have too much food, nor have I said that I don't want them to have food that is nice. How in the world are you coming up with this? It's pretty obvious your reading comprehension is skewed by your want for my words to have another meaning. This I cannot help. <shrugs>

 

[msop04]

Heaven forbid that poor people want to be part of a community; or want to eat a steak or enjoy something. Ribeyes should only be for the rich and entitled. Poor people should only eat poor people food, right?

If someone is taking me out to dinner, I don't order the most expensive thing on the menu just because I'm not paying. I also don't order a bunch extra to take home and feed my friends.

If someone can use their benefits to buy steak and lobster or feed their neighborhood, they either 1) are getting too much in benefits, or 2) don't need the benefits to begin with. The point of social aid is to be temporary help for times when people need it. It is supposed to get them through until they can stand on their own two feet. It isn't supposed to allow them to live frivolously. And yes, steak is frivolous.

Exactly.

 

[Maria D]

I also work in an high poverty high school and don't see this. We have plenty of kids with iPhones and a daily latte habit, but they are not the ones getting free/reduced lunch. I often bring in baked goods to eat in class as the cafeteria closes 15 minutes before classes start and many of my students can't get there in time. They are responsible for getting their younger siblings off to school because their parent(s) work an early shift or is getting sleep from working a late shift.

Sky56, it is great that you were able to overcome situational poverty. Love to hear stories like this! But generational poverty is a whole other paradigm. I'm not saying we, as a society, shouldn't expect people to strive for self-reliance - but we should acknowledge that it is very very difficult to overcome generational poverty. In fact, with the way things are "rigged" (as Deb and iLander have already explained) it's practically impossible. Playspent.org has a nice little online game that shows how expensive it is to be poor.

 

[Indylady]

Right. Its shocking to me that people criticize those on food stamps for buying junk food--realistically, its the only affordable option. Fruits and veggies at the grocery store are comparatively more expensive than junk food, unless you shop at a farmers market, which is a luxury in itself because most farmers market vendors are cash only, and are certainly very unlikely to take food stamps.

As was mentioned before, the children in those families are on free lunches, so they only have to provide 11 meals/child/week. The parents (assuming there are two parents) would need 21 meals/each if they eat every meal each day. Assuming they have three children, the grand total is 75 meals per week. If they're getting $800/month, that's over $10 for each meal. That's a lot.

It seems that we're having a trees v. forest discussion. I am surprised that you have brought up the topic of children. What about spring break, summer vacation, winter break? Or an after school snack? I am incredulous to me that I live in one of the greatest, richest countries in the world, and that some people here don't want poor children to have too much food or food that is too nice. To each his own.

You are completely missing the point... again. I have never said that I don't want anyone to have too much food, nor have I said that I don't want them to have food that is nice. How in the world are you coming up with this? It's pretty obvious your reading comprehension is skewed by your want for my words to have another meaning. This I cannot help. <shrugs>

It seems to me that you often have strong feelings about topics that you do not understand...like the 28th amendment...and math, as Maria posted about...perhaps it was your skewed understanding of the cost per meal that makes you passionate, or a skewed understanding of an amendment that does not exist?

 

[Maria D]

Heaven forbid that poor people want to be part of a community; or want to eat a steak or enjoy something. Ribeyes should only be for the rich and entitled. Poor people should only eat poor people food, right?

If someone is taking me out to dinner, I don't order the most expensive thing on the menu just because I'm not paying. I also don't order a bunch extra to take home and feed my friends.

If someone can use their benefits to buy steak and lobster or feed their neighborhood, they either 1) are getting too much in benefits, or 2) don't need the benefits to begin with. The point of social aid is to be temporary help for times when people need it. It is supposed to get them through until they can stand on their own two feet. It isn't supposed to allow them to live frivolously. And yes, steak is frivolous.

Exactly.

As for getting too much in benefits, your math is all off - see my prior post, you are confusing weeks with months. As for your anecdotal observation - maybe that one person really didn't need the benefits. But how often does that really happen compared to the times that those benefits go exactly where they are needed? If you want to believe that it's common practice for people on TANF to be holding lobster bakes for the neighborhood go right ahead - but it's farcical.

 

[packrat]

OMG I just lost my entire post that I worked on for-ev-er. sonofa...goddang it argggghhhh.

Whatever. I'm a big ole bitch so ya'll wouldn't want to hear what I have to say anyway.

 

[Sky56]

I don't know enough about Obamacare to answer the question as to whether it would have covered that illness. The irony is that I've been in perfect health ever since then. I am currently covered by my husband's health insurance through his work. I do admit that my health crisis long ago was brought on by a few bad decisions I made back then.

 

[msop04]

I work at an urban school district where 99 % of my students get free breakfast and lunch. In the summer, they offer free lunch to any student under 18. I can't imagine that their grocery bills being are so high with all of this free lunch, and esp. because on weekends, they are lining up at IHOP for a costly breakfast. After school, these kids head for Starbucks to buy themselves a 3-4 dollar cup of coffee. These same students have Iphones, get their nails done twice a month, and wear expensive tennis shoes. Many of these parents are on welfare, WIC, low-income housing and food stamps. Many of these parents reproduce irresponsibly without stopping to plan how they will provide for their 6th child, financially or emotionally. These children grow up in a cycle of poverty. Many of them are teen parents and head straight for the welfare lines, knowing each benefit all too well. Some are even on their second child. I'm not exaggerating. For those who want to pursue a higher education, financial aid is extremely generous, and hands out money to the welfare recipients to the extent that these students do not have to work a day in their lives while they are in college. Meanwhile, the students who come from hard working middle class families, who barely earn a dollar over the poverty threshold, get very little financial aid assistance, and work their way through college, and graduate in 4 years because they are paying for it. Those on 100% financial aid, who do not work, who are products of of the welfare system, typically graduate in 7 to 8 years IF they graduate, without paying a penny. I think the welfare system create a cycle of poverty by assisting already ignorant families with poor decision-making skills to the extent where in their little world, they are better off working less and reproducing more for added benefits. Struggling is not a bad thing...many times, it is the best motivator. I have noticed that the students who excel in school, are for the most part, those that come from families who work for their every dollar.

Thanks for this post, braga. This is the population I've been referring to in this thread... not those who are in true need.

 

[Maria D]

..snip...I think the welfare system create a cycle of poverty by assisting already ignorant families with poor decision-making skills to the extent where in their little world, they are better off working less and reproducing more for added benefits. Struggling is not a bad thing...many times, it is the best motivator. I have noticed that the students who excel in school, are for the most part, those that come from families who work for their every dollar.

Thanks for this post, braga. This is the population I've been referring to in this thread... not those who are in true need.

Our political and educational systems have created a cycle of non-critical thinkers who don't even begin to question corporate welfare ... and are bad at math.

I've noticed that the students who excel in school are, for the most part, well-fed and come from stable households with abundant resources.

 

[Maria D]

OMG I just lost my entire post that I worked on for-ev-er. sonofa...goddang it argggghhhh.

Whatever. I'm a big ole bitch so ya'll wouldn't want to hear what I have to say anyway.

Awwwwww - I always read what you have to say!

 

[AGBF]

Our political and educational systems have created a cycle of non-critical thinkers who don't even begin to question corporate welfare ... and are bad at math.

Whoa! Them's fightin' words, sister! I...uh...will be right behind you.

Deb

 

[Dancing Fire]

I work at an urban school district where 99 % of my students get free breakfast and lunch. In the summer, they offer free lunch to any student under 18. I can't imagine that their grocery bills being are so high with all of this free lunch, and esp. because on weekends, they are lining up at IHOP for a costly breakfast. After school, these kids head for Starbucks to buy themselves a 3-4 dollar cup of coffee. These same students have Iphones, get their nails done twice a month, and wear expensive tennis shoes. Many of these parents are on welfare, WIC, low-income housing and food stamps. Many of these parents reproduce irresponsibly without stopping to plan how they will provide for their 6th child, financially or emotionally. These children grow up in a cycle of poverty. Many of them are teen parents and head straight for the welfare lines, knowing each benefit all too well. Some are even on their second child. I'm not exaggerating. For those who want to pursue a higher education, financial aid is extremely generous, and hands out money to the welfare recipients to the extent that these students do not have to work a day in their lives while they are in college. Meanwhile, the students who come from hard working middle class families, who barely earn a dollar over the poverty threshold, get very little financial aid assistance, and work their way through college, and graduate in 4 years because they are paying for it. Those on 100% financial aid, who do not work, who are products of of the welfare system, typically graduate in 7 to 8 years IF they graduate, without paying a penny. I think the welfare system create a cycle of poverty by assisting already ignorant families with poor decision-making skills to the extent where in their little world, they are better off working less and reproducing more for added benefits. Struggling is not a bad thing...many times, it is the best motivator. I have noticed that the students who excel in school, are for the most part, those that come from families who work for their every dollar.

Exactly! ...That's the reason why Asians are among the highest paid of all ethnic groups in the US.Nowadays you see many Asians working in the medical fields, b/c most Asian kids grew up in a family with both parents whom encourages their kids to study hard in school to earn a higher quality of living.

 

[Sky56]

The people I notice in general who do well are those who grew up in homes with 2 decent, loving parents who work hard or those with a good, loving, hard-working single parent. Some people seem damned from birth by having terrible parents who have bad values.

 

[ksinger]

..snip...I think the welfare system create a cycle of poverty by assisting already ignorant families with poor decision-making skills to the extent where in their little world, they are better off working less and reproducing more for added benefits. Struggling is not a bad thing...many times, it is the best motivator. I have noticed that the students who excel in school, are for the most part, those that come from families who work for their every dollar.

Thanks for this post, braga. This is the population I've been referring to in this thread... not those who are in true need.

Our political and educational systems have created a cycle of non-critical thinkers who don't even begin to question corporate welfare ... and are bad at math.

I've noticed that the students who excel in school are, for the most part, well-fed and come from stable households with abundant resources.

Urban schoolteacher's wife hurking up a lung laughing here. Word.

To which I really should add what every teacher knows - that the most important predictors of academic success are family income and parental educational level.

 

[AGBF]

I work at an urban school district where 99 % of my students get free breakfast and lunch. In the summer, they offer free lunch to any student under 18. I can't imagine that their grocery bills being are so high with all of this free lunch, and esp. because on weekends, they are lining up at IHOP for a costly breakfast. After school, these kids head for Starbucks to buy themselves a 3-4 dollar cup of coffee. These same students have Iphones, get their nails done twice a month, and wear expensive tennis shoes. Many of these parents are on welfare, WIC, low-income housing and food stamps. ]Many of these parents reproduce irresponsibly without stopping to plan how they will provide for their 6th child, financially or emotionally. These children grow up in a cycle of poverty. Many of them are teen parents and head straight for the welfare lines, knowing each benefit all too well. Some are even on their second child. I'm not exaggerating. For those who want to pursue a higher education, financial aid is extremely generous, and hands out money to the welfare recipients to the extent that these students do not have to work a day in their lives while they are in college. Meanwhile, the students who come from hard working middle class families, who barely earn a dollar over the poverty threshold, get very little financial aid assistance, and work their way through college, and graduate in 4 years because they are paying for it. Those on 100% financial aid, who do not work, who are products of of the welfare system, typically graduate in 7 to 8 years IF they graduate, without paying a penny. I think the welfare system create a cycle of poverty by assisting already ignorant families with poor decision-making skills to the extent where in their little world, they are better off working less and reproducing more for added benefits. Struggling is not a bad thing...many times, it is the best motivator. I have noticed that the students who excel in school, are for the most part, those that come from families who work for their every dollar.

Exactly! ...That's the reason why Asians are among the highest paid of all ethnic groups in the US. Nowadays you see many Asians working in the medical fields, b/c most Asian kids grew up in a family with both parents whom encourages their kids to study hard in school to earn a higher quality of living.

Is this the only reason people are educated?

Are we to deduce from this statement that the goal of education is to launch people into the medical field? People who have studied hard and want to earn a higher quality of living? What about those people who have studied hard and want to do scientific research at a lowly wage because it fascinates them? What about those who have studied hard and want to write about literature and pass on their passion to others who are studying at universities? What about those who studied hard and became attorneys but went into low paying jobs to serve the public good?

AGBF

 

[Dancing Fire]

You know who doesn't work? The 1%. The working poor are on food stamps. Yup. The working poor. And those who would like to be working but are unemployed through no fault of their own. It's called RECESSION.


AGBF

And why are we still in a RECESSION? Nahhh...you don't wanna hear my answer...

 

[makemepretty]

I have known many people who have received food stamps. These people have children or are disabled. If you make any amount of income the benefits are less than the numbers I read in this thread. The lady I know on disability gets approx. $125 a month. With a family of four and no income you might get $600, if you make a small amount of money you might be cut to $200 something. I am so glad those people get food-not cash....FOOD. The income limits are very low to qualify. No matter the circumstances a child should not go hungry because of their parents circumstances. PERIOD.

No one is getting rich on welfare or any of those programs and I guarantee you would not want to switch places with them.

 

[AGBF]

You know who doesn't work? The 1%. The working poor are on food stamps. Yup. The working poor. And those who would like to be working but are unemployed through no fault of their own. It's called RECESSION.

And why are we still in a RECESSION? Nahhh...you don't wanna hear my answer...

Why not? I can always use a laugh.

Deb

 

[braga123]

..snip...I think the welfare system create a cycle of poverty by assisting already ignorant families with poor decision-making skills to the extent where in their little world, they are better off working less and reproducing more for added benefits. Struggling is not a bad thing...many times, it is the best motivator. I have noticed that the students who excel in school, are for the most part, those that come from families who work for their every dollar.

Thanks for this post, braga. This is the population I've been referring to in this thread... not those who are in true need.

Our political and educational systems have created a cycle of non-critical thinkers who don't even begin to question corporate welfare ... and are bad at math.

I've noticed that the students who excel in school are, for the most part, well-fed and come from stable households with abundant resources.

Well-fed and with abundant resources because they come from hard working families who can provide for them while reinforcing a good work ethic.

 

[braga123]

..snip...I think the welfare system create a cycle of poverty by assisting already ignorant families with poor decision-making skills to the extent where in their little world, they are better off working less and reproducing more for added benefits. Struggling is not a bad thing...many times, it is the best motivator. I have noticed that the students who excel in school, are for the most part, those that come from families who work for their every dollar.

Thanks for this post, braga. This is the population I've been referring to in this thread... not those who are in true need.

Our political and educational systems have created a cycle of non-critical thinkers who don't even begin to question corporate welfare ... and are bad at math.

I've noticed that the students who excel in school are, for the most part, well-fed and come from stable households with abundant resources.

Urban schoolteacher's wife hurking up a lung laughing here. Word.

To which I really should add what every teacher knows - that the most important predictors of academic success are family income and parental educational level.

Yes, typically highly educated parents with high incomes are hard working and did not achieve that success by relying on government hand-outs that only serve to perpetuate the cycle of poverty.

 

[braga123]

I also work in an high poverty high school and don't see this. We have plenty of kids with iPhones and a daily latte habit, but they are not the ones getting free/reduced lunch. I often bring in baked goods to eat in class as the cafeteria closes 15 minutes before classes start and many of my students can't get there in time. They are responsible for getting their younger siblings off to school because their parent(s) work an early shift or is getting sleep from working a late shift.

Sky56, it is great that you were able to overcome situational poverty. Love to hear stories like this! But generational poverty is a whole other paradigm. I'm not saying we, as a society, shouldn't expect people to strive for self-reliance - but we should acknowledge that it is very very difficult to overcome generational poverty. In fact, with the way things are "rigged" (as Deb and iLander have already explained) it's practically impossible. Playspent.org has a nice little online game that shows how expensive it is to be poor.

This is exactly what I am referring to--why have so many children IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO FEED THEM OR SUPERVISE THEM? Why do people feel so entitled to reproduce irresponsibly? Oh I know why, because here in America, there are plenty of well-meaning people who will continue to undermine their true potential to achieve by pacifying them with a substandard subsidy so they can keep existing in their poverty. These bad decision-makers will continue to make bad decisions because they do not plan ahead. Instead, it is all about immediate gratification, even if it comes in the form of a meager welfare subsidy THAT NO ONE ON THIS BOARD ENVIES! The concept of delayed gratification is foreign to bad decision-makers, which only aggravates the problem.