Why Food Stamps Are NOT A Scam

[amc80]

Heaven forbid that poor people want to be part of a community; or want to eat a steak or enjoy something. Ribeyes should only be for the rich and entitled. Poor people should only eat poor people food, right?

If someone is taking me out to dinner, I don't order the most expensive thing on the menu just because I'm not paying. I also don't order a bunch extra to take home and feed my friends.

If someone can use their benefits to buy steak and lobster or feed their neighborhood, they either 1) are getting too much in benefits, or 2) don't need the benefits to begin with. The point of social aid is to be temporary help for times when people need it. It is supposed to get them through until they can stand on their own two feet. It isn't supposed to allow them to live frivolously. And yes, steak is frivolous.

Or they are making a sacrifice, and going without food for the sake of being able to contribute to their community.

Why do you feel like its ok for you to determine what is frivolous for another person? Would you feel the same if someone more rich than you said that you shouldn't be able to have a mortgage and still purchase diamonds? f you have debt, even 'understandable debt' like a mortgage (that the government has had to remedy) or government subsidized student loans, should you be allowed to buy a frivolous luxury good like a diamond?

There are standards in place to determine eligibility. I'm grateful to live in a country that values freedom, where the government and the citizens can't exclude me from buying a certain cut of meat because I'm too poor to be allowed the choice to eat steak for one dinner and ramen for the rest.

A mortgage is not government aid. The only person paying my mortgage (or credit cards) is me. With interest. If I choose to make the minimum payment and have more free cash flow to buy diamonds, that's my choice. I will pay for it in the end with more money having gone to interest. My choice. Because it's MY MONEY. The only way it would be irresponsible is if I defaulted on loans and filed bankruptcy and didn't end up paying off the loan. A subsidized student loan only means that the government is paying the interest while I'm in school. After graduation, I'm on the hook for the interest. But if a student is getting subsidize loans and is off buying diamonds while in college, then I would say they ARE abusing their aid and probably don't need it in the first place.

Your tax deductions for your mortgage (HMI) are government aid.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304709904579407111906612936

Perhaps if I itemized that would be the case. The standard deduction is still bigger, even with my mortgage. I get the same deduction as everyone else who files using the standard deduction.

 

[ksinger]

Heaven forbid that poor people want to be part of a community; or want to eat a steak or enjoy something. Ribeyes should only be for the rich and entitled. Poor people should only eat poor people food, right?

If someone is taking me out to dinner, I don't order the most expensive thing on the menu just because I'm not paying. I also don't order a bunch extra to take home and feed my friends.

If someone can use their benefits to buy steak and lobster or feed their neighborhood, they either 1) are getting too much in benefits, or 2) don't need the benefits to begin with. The point of social aid is to be temporary help for times when people need it. It is supposed to get them through until they can stand on their own two feet. It isn't supposed to allow them to live frivolously. And yes, steak is frivolous.

Or they are making a sacrifice, and going without food for the sake of being able to contribute to their community.

Why do you feel like its ok for you to determine what is frivolous for another person? Would you feel the same if someone more rich than you said that you shouldn't be able to have a mortgage and still purchase diamonds? f you have debt, even 'understandable debt' like a mortgage (that the government has had to remedy) or government subsidized student loans, should you be allowed to buy a frivolous luxury good like a diamond?

There are standards in place to determine eligibility. I'm grateful to live in a country that values freedom, where the government and the citizens can't exclude me from buying a certain cut of meat because I'm too poor to be allowed the choice to eat steak for one dinner and ramen for the rest.

A mortgage is not government aid. The only person paying my mortgage (or credit cards) is me. With interest. If I choose to make the minimum payment and have more free cash flow to buy diamonds, that's my choice. I will pay for it in the end with more money having gone to interest. My choice. Because it's MY MONEY. The only way it would be irresponsible is if I defaulted on loans and filed bankruptcy and didn't end up paying off the loan. A subsidized student loan only means that the government is paying the interest while I'm in school. After graduation, I'm on the hook for the interest. But if a student is getting subsidize loans and is off buying diamonds while in college, then I would say they ARE abusing their aid and probably don't need it in the first place.

Your tax deductions for your mortgage (HMI) are government aid.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304709904579407111906612936

Ah, but a tax break for ME? Now, that's DIFFERENT. I DESERVE that....

 

[Maria D]

A mortgage is not government aid. The only person paying my mortgage (or credit cards) is me. With interest. If I choose to make the minimum payment and have more free cash flow to buy diamonds, that's my choice. I will pay for it in the end with more money having gone to interest. My choice. Because it's MY MONEY. The only way it would be irresponsible is if I defaulted on loans and filed bankruptcy and didn't end up paying off the loan. A subsidized student loan only means that the government is paying the interest while I'm in school. After graduation, I'm on the hook for the interest. But if a student is getting subsidize loans and is off buying diamonds while in college, then I would say they ARE abusing their aid and probably don't need it in the first place.

Will you also please refrain from taking a tax deduction for the interest you pay on your mortgage? 'Cause that's less taxes that you have to pay which in turn means that the rest of us end up paying more. If you do decide to take the mortgage deduction can you please invite us over to see how you are living? We could all get together and figure out how you could have gotten by on less luxe digs so that you could have a lower mortgage, pay less interest and have a smaller tax deduction.

And the government paying the interest on your student loans - you say you are on the hook for the interest. But it was deferred no? Do you have to pay back ALL the interest since the origin of the loan or does it start to accrue only after you graduate? Because if it's the latter and the government picked it up while you were in school, well that gov't is us. And maybe we think you should have gone to a cheaper school.

 

[amc80]

Also, my whole point was that I have no problem with people getting aid who 1) need it and 2) aren't abusing the system.

 

[ruby59]

I graduated from an Ivy League University and so did my parents. I ended up on welfare and food stamps for a while, too. (I've had quite a varied life!)

Yes, but the last few words say it all - "for a while." And for people like you who need a helping hand to get back on their feet, then I am so happy it was there for you. But that is not what upsets me and I am sure others. My husband used to work for our home State in the bureau of audits and he saw the fraud upclose. For some people food stamps is not a helping hand but a way of life. By their actions they seem to have no intention of changing their lives. And because they take no personal responsibilities they are bringing children into this world they cannot afford and setting them up with the same mindset as their parents. My husband came across records where in some cases it certainly is passed down through the generations.

A couple of my children also had summer jobs working in our local supermarket as cashiers. The abuse of food stamps by some was obvious. I am not saying that people should be ashamed to accept help, but for others they were proud that they were gaming the system.

I do not think anyone here is saying we should starve children, but when are we going to say enough is enough and that people, especially those who bring children into this world, need to start taking some personal responsibility for their actions, just like everyone else.

 

[movie zombie]

.......I do not think anyone here is saying we should starve children, but when are we going to say enough is enough and that people, especially those who bring children into this world, need to start taking some personal responsibility for their actions, just like everyone else.

and for many going on food stamps is taking personal responsibility to feed the children. working two jobs and still not earning enough $ to feed, clothe, and house one's children would change my mind re what constitutes responsibility and I'm betting I'd also quit one of those jobs and get the food for my kids.

one may think they are not saying starve the children but when the only option suggested for solving abuse is to kick them off food stamps, well, it really does sound like "starve the children".

again, i'll have a lot more sympathy for those that think "enough is enough" when those people say/think/and do something re "enough is enough" re corporate abuse of the food stamp system.

 

[Indylady]

It seems to me that you often have strong feelings about topics that you do not understand...like the 28th amendment...and math, as Maria posted about...perhaps it was your skewed understanding of the cost per meal that makes you passionate, or a skewed understanding of an amendment that does not exist?

Unlike some, I can admit when I have made a mistake, as in the math. And, God forbid, I pose a question or seek clarification on something that I found to be offensive. Maybe I should have waited until I was at home and could actually have access to "real internet," because I was clearly wrong, as I promptly acknowledged, but not before all the nice, caring humanitarians on this board took the opportunity to crucify me for it. Maybe you didn't read that far -- which was about the 4th comment in the thread (my 2nd comment), or more likely didn't care to acknowledge, as it wouldn't support your petty attack on me, personally. I understand it's much easier to try to embarrass or discredit those who disagree with you. Ever notice that many of those who are so consumed with the idea that everyone should be equal and have all the same things (regardless of if they have done anything to deserve it or, heaven forbid, worked for it) are the same people who find it perfectly okay and appropriate to treat their fellow man -- their "equals" -- with disrespect in their everyday lives, with no room for mistake? As you stated earlier, to each their own.

I am passionate because I have worked hard for everything I have, and I will not apologize for it. I disagree very much with how government programs are abused and this behavior encouraged. The fact that I'm bothered by the abuse does not mean that I disagree with the programs. I don't know one person who would want to take welfare programs away entirely. Let me clarify as to not be misunderstood, I support the system, but not the blatant fraud. I am pro-welfare, but against the abuse. However, I have never spoken with anyone who is okay with the obvious abuse. The same goes for the rich and the poor. That said, this thread was about food stamps/SNAP programs, so that is what I am commenting on.

If only a very small percentage of people on welfare are abusing it, then they must live in AL -- which would make sense because everyone knows all Southerners are merely simple-minded, gun-totin', Bible quotin', God-fearing folks who just don't know any better. Good thing there are so many enlightened ones with all the answers. That's working out great for this country. After all, we're much better off than we've ever been... Sheesh.

It is not disrespectful to point out your misunderstanding about this topic, including grossly inflating food stamp benefits by four times what they are, or citing the violation of a mythical constitutional amendment in another thread.

In all seriousness, I would request the same diligence of someone that supported my opinion as well as someone that opposed it. Its difficult to have a spirited discussion, or any discussion at all, when there are many fundamental misunderstandings about the topics at hand.

 

[ruby59]

.......I do not think anyone here is saying we should starve children, but when are we going to say enough is enough and that people, especially those who bring children into this world, need to start taking some personal responsibility for their actions, just like everyone else.

and for many going on food stamps is taking personal responsibility to feed the children. working two jobs and still not earning enough $ to feed, clothe, and house one's children would change my mind re what constitutes responsibility and I'm betting I'd also quit one of those jobs and get the food for my kids.

one may think they are not saying starve the children but when the only option suggested for solving abuse is to kick them off food stamps, well, it really does sound like "starve the children".

again, i'll have a lot more sympathy for those that think "enough is enough" when those people say/think/and do something re "enough is enough" re corporate abuse of the food stamp system.

Again, I am not referring to women who are trying to do everything right, like the above poster, and need a helping hand to get back on their feet. I am talking about those who have actually made a career of living off the system. I am in the camp that people on welfare, who have shown absolutely no initiative that they want to better their lives and that of their children, should not be allowed to have any more. Yes, birth control sometimes fails, and I would not fault a woman who had an oops. But for the hardened cases, welfare should be a condition for them to start being productive members of society.

 

[Indylady]

When you say, "enough is enough" and you intend to take away the $2.46 that is the maximum per meal benefit of an American child on food stamps for a "hardened case"--you are punishing a child by starving that child. Do you realize that children can't remedy their financial situation until they are at least 14 or 16 and able to legally work? I'm tired of tip-toeing around; it doesn't sound like "starve the children"--it IS "starve the children!"

 

[packrat]

When I tried to go back to school, I was living w/my parents b/c I couldn't afford to live on my own. I made "too much" to qualify for any aid b/c I lived at home. I was given two choices if I wanted help--quit my job and live off my parents for 6 months, or have a baby. No lie. I sucked it up and took out loans myself and finally got them paid off after JD and I had been married about a year. I didn't finish my degree b/c we couldn't afford for me to go. Fast forward another year and a friends daughter got busted for drugs for the Nth time (tho this time as an adult rather than a minor), got sent to prison and was able to get her degree, free, and is now a drug counselor (ohhh the irony) and was able to take part in a program for convicts of some sort, to get a job right away after release, and is now making more money than I could shake a stick at.

Our school district is predominately free/reduced. 80% or better...we would probably qualify for at least reduced, but we refuse. It's bad enough that I have to look into HAWK-I dental for the kids b/c the dental insurance we pay for, is worthless. We live in a non prosperous area. Predominately benefit collectors and disability.

I can't count the number of times JD has come home after dealing w/someone collecting benefits. The sense of entitlement comes the majority of the time from those collecting benefits, and those who are (for our area) wealthy, or children of the wealthy, who of course can do no wrong. The mother's w/4 different kids from 4 different dads w/4 different last names that doesn't work and will tell you plain as day she moved here b/c the benefits were better in Iowa than the state she was living in before. The ones that work at the pack and take every lay off and every day off they can so they can still keep their benefits. The ones selling or trading their cards for cash or drugs. The ones going to the store to get groceries w/their cards and then giving it to someone else in exchange for drugs. Some of the things that go on here, it's like seriously?? Who the hell thinks of that? Who can sit and spend hours trying to figure out the tiniest little loop hole, most convoluted way to work the system, who does that? JD will come home and tell me the latest scam w/a look of complete shock on his face, and I'll say seriously, you can do that? And he'll shake his head and say apparently! It would never cross our minds, if something happened and we were collecting, to find a way to screw the system, so we're always so shocked at the lengths people will go to.

Our principal one day at a meeting was almost reduced to tears, talking about the free/reduced kids who have NOTHING b/c the parents are too busy getting drunk, doing drugs, sleeping, not working of course, or working the bare minimum, and the kids are wearing clothes that are so small they can barely get them on, the kids are only being fed at school, the kids are not being bathed. She pays for some of our preschoolers on her own, so that they can be in the all day program b/c she knows the only attention/love they are getting is from US. She fought to bring in the summer breakfast/lunch program b/c she knew those kids wouldn't be taken care of when school was out. Those kids manage to get themselves up and dressed and to school/bus stop on their own.

That's part of where the frustration comes. The kids. It is a privilege, not a right, to have children. You take care of your kids and if you're too much of a worthless pile of crap that you can't feed/clothe/take care of your kids but you are collecting benefits FOR them, to DO those things, you should not HAVE them. You do not DESERVE them. The kids have a right to eat, yes, of course they do! But who is going to force the parents to do what they're supposed to??

And then you have the rich. Lordloveaduck, there's another group that can sit and finagle a way to find a loophole/work the system. And here we go again...I'd never be able to stay rich either, b/c I'd feel like I was cheating, if I worked the shit the way they do. Bailouts for corporations who run their shit into the ground b/c of their own mismanagement and stupidity--but of course make sure to get their OWN zillions of dollars, I mean, come on, a guys got to have a couple bucks to his name right? We gotta help out those poor people...yanno, those of us who live paycheck to paycheck and it's a luxury for us to have satellite tv, it only make SENSE for US to be the ones to help those who make more money in a month than we will in our entire lifetime...wouldn't want them to have to sell one of their million dollar homes, or be forced to sell one of their $100,000 vehicles..it only makes sense for the have-not-much's to bail out the have-everything-under-the-sun's. idiocy.

And god forbid you complain about it or are upset by it. The stupidity in this country is laughable.

Twas always thus and always thus will be. Those in the middle are going to get stepped on by those above, and pulled down by those below. Too many people riding in the wagon, not enough people to pull it.

 

[ruby59]

When you say, "enough is enough" and you intend to take away the $2.46 that is the maximum per meal benefit of an American child on food stamps for a "hardened case"--you are punishing a child by starving that child. Do you realize that children can't remedy their financial situation until they are at least 14 or 16 and able to legally work? I'm tired of tip-toeing around; it doesn't sound like "starve the children"--it IS "starve the children!"

My husband was a State worker for the bureau of audits. My aunt is a social worker as is a sister. In the hardened cases do you think that meal benefit is going to the child? That is why we have breakfast programs, lunch programs and in many cases that is all the children get to eat for the day. Yes, I have seen it personally as a helper school mom. It is not the amount of money but the FACT that it is not going for the support of the child.

Several cases of arrests in my home State of small marts buying food stamps for 50% on the dollar. Or the latest round of men living in the house using it to buy beer.

 

[movie zombie]

going down the road to decide for others what the conditions for breeding are or are not opens the door to setting financial conditions that some might find limiting here on pricescope. for instance, perhaps the answer is to sterilize or otherwise prevent pregnancy for all those that do not have $5M in assets? and to limit the size of families to one child per $1M of assets after that? perhaps those that haven't paid off that government backed mortgage shouldn't be allowed to have children because they are relying on the government to back their purchase rather than saving enough $ to buy it with cash? why should home buyers get an interest deduction which is nothing more than a subsidy of their decision to buy? because it furthers the loan industry as well as the building industry. yet everyone of us buys into that being ok and buy into that form of socialism because we benefit from it.

yes, there is abuse. yes, some have made a life of it. and there are some very complicated societal reasons for that. again, I find the abuse at the top much more costly to society and offense personally. it is always easier to identify with those at the top than at the bottom......

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="ksinger|1396541810|
Absolutely: bait and switch and keep those plebs arguing amongst themselves over scraps while we offshore the jobs and the loot, continue to buy the press and the legislatures (THANKS SUPREME COURT!! LOVE YA!!), and lock in the plutocracy.

Life is GOOD![/quote]



I always buy "made in the USA" products when I have a choice. We make much higher quality products then the junks coming out of China.

 

[Indylady]

I am currently working as a pricing /inventory specialist for a retail chain, so I get first hand views at how people abuse the system. People from my county have admitted that they would rather remain jobless because the benefits are better than if they were to get a job.

Everyday I hear comments like "I'm gonna use my free money for food and use MY money for this 6 pk of beer.
Everyday I see people using their cards to buy sh*t like soda and chips, and it aggravates the daylight out of me.
To me, EBT should be like WIC healthy, base ingredients, not processed junk.

I'm ALL for people getting assistance, if you need it, then by all means get it.- but if its coming out of MY tax dollars, you better bet I'm going to dislike the fact that they buy junk.

I've seen people with 2 THOUSAND dollars on their card balance who don't need it versus families that I personally go out of my way to help because they just simply can't afford it.
I like the system- it just needs to be handled better.

Sorry for the rant

I'm reading a lot of rants that are based on comments, stories, and experiences in grocery store lines. National food stamp abuse is approximately 1.3 cents on the dollar, and has one of the LOWEST fraud rates of government services and with an accuracy rate of 96%--that's probably why I've never seen someone abusing the program, because it doesn't happen too often.

http://feedingamerica.org/how-we-fight-hunger/programs-and-services/public-assistance-programs/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program/snap-myths-realities.aspx
http://www.hungercoalition.org/food-stamp-myths
http://feedingamerica.org/how-we-fight-hunger/programs-and-services/public-assistance-programs/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program/snap-myths-realities.aspx

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="nkarma|
Your tax deductions for your mortgage interest (HMI) are government aid.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304709904579407111906612936

[/quote]
I don't have mortgage interest deductions..

 

[craighnt]

[quote="ksinger|1396541810|
Absolutely: bait and switch and keep those plebs arguing amongst themselves over scraps while we offshore the jobs and the loot, continue to buy the press and the legislatures (THANKS SUPREME COURT!! LOVE YA!!), and lock in the plutocracy.

Life is GOOD!

I always buy "made in the USA" products when I have a choice. We make much higher quality products then the junks coming out of China.[/quote]

Ha, Ha, that's funny, so is that watch you spent thousands of dollars on in your avatar made in America?

Oh, wait, let me guess, they don't make Swiss watchers here? Yeah, they don't make Chinese cars here either.

Do you own a smart phone, iphone or any Apple product? The are all made in china.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="ksinger|1396541810|
Absolutely: bait and switch and keep those plebs arguing amongst themselves over scraps while we offshore the jobs and the loot, continue to buy the press and the legislatures (THANKS SUPREME COURT!! LOVE YA!!), and lock in the plutocracy.

Life is GOOD!

I always buy "made in the USA" products when I have a choice. We make much higher quality products then the junks coming out of China.

Ha, Ha, that's funny, so is that watch you spent thousands of dollars on in your avatar made in America?

Oh, wait, let me guess, they don't make Swiss watchers here? Yeah, they don't make Chinese cars here either.

Do you own a smart phone, iphone or any Apple product? The are all made in china. [/quote]


I just got one about 2 weeks ago. I didn't buy it, some one gave me a used Iphone 4.

 

[Kelinas]

I am currently working as a pricing /inventory specialist for a retail chain, so I get first hand views at how people abuse the system. People from my county have admitted that they would rather remain jobless because the benefits are better than if they were to get a job.

Everyday I hear comments like "I'm gonna use my free money for food and use MY money for this 6 pk of beer.
Everyday I see people using their cards to buy sh*t like soda and chips, and it aggravates the daylight out of me.
To me, EBT should be like WIC healthy, base ingredients, not processed junk.

I'm ALL for people getting assistance, if you need it, then by all means get it.- but if its coming out of MY tax dollars, you better bet I'm going to dislike the fact that they buy junk.

I've seen people with 2 THOUSAND dollars on their card balance who don't need it versus families that I personally go out of my way to help because they just simply can't afford it.
I like the system- it just needs to be handled better.

Sorry for the rant

I'm reading a lot of rants that are based on comments, stories, and experiences in grocery store lines. National food stamp abuse is approximately 1.3 cents on the dollar, and has one of the LOWEST fraud rates of government services and with an accuracy rate of 96%--that's probably why I've never seen someone abusing the program, because it doesn't happen too often.

http://feedingamerica.org/how-we-fight-hunger/programs-and-services/public-assistance-programs/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program/snap-myths-realities.aspx
http://www.hungercoalition.org/food-stamp-myths
http://feedingamerica.org/how-we-fight-hunger/programs-and-services/public-assistance-programs/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program/snap-myths-realities.aspx

I get that it doesn't "happen too often" in most of the country. I won't specify exactly where, but if you want to see it happen allllll day, come to North Central Fl.

No, not saying the entire area is like that, but my county is. Our cashiers ask "Are you going to pay with debit, credit, EBT or cash" and majority of the times, just assume EBT.

 

[iLander]

Let's just fix it:

Limit the benefits for 3 children or less. After the third child, benefits do not increase.

Increase benefits by $75 a month for those on birth control implants.

Non-transferable, with fingerprint scanners.

No cash benefits.

Only approved foods, like the WIC program. This will upset Walmart. Remember, they make $17 billion a year from food stamps.

No alcohol can be charged.

Why can't we do that? Those that are genuinely in need would probably have zero objections to any of that.

 

[AGBF]

Let's just fix it:

Limit the benefits for 3 children or less. After the third child, benefits do not increase.

Increase benefits by $75 a month for those on birth control implants.

Non-transferable, with fingerprint scanners.

No cash benefits.

Only approved foods, like the WIC program. This will upset Walmart. Remember, they make $17 billion a year from food stamps.

No alcohol can be charged.

Why can't we do that? Those that are genuinely in need would probably have zero objections to any of that.

Why on earth penalize children in large families? Have we gone mad? Parents have "too many" kids, so we let the excess ones starve to death?

Deb

 

[chrono]

Limit the benefits for 3 children or less. After the third child, benefits do not increase.
Good in theory but in reality, any child thereafter will suffer through no fault of their own.

Increase benefits by $75 a month for those on birth control implants.
I'm of two minds about this. A good plan to encourage the practice of birth control but doesn't that infringe upon our right of freedom of what we can or cannot do with our bodies?

Non-transferable, with fingerprint scanners.
Non-transferable is a good idea but fingerprint scanners? ID only should be sufficient.

No cash benefits.
YES!

Only approved foods, like the WIC program. This will upset Walmart. Remember, they make $17 billion a year from food stamps.
Sounds like a idea but isn't this already in place? I'm not up to date on the rules & regulations so I'm ready to be educated on this. Do you mean that it should be limited only to fresh fruits, fresh vegetables, raw meat and dairy products?

No alcohol can be charged.
YES!

I agree wholeheartedly that the system needs to be fixed but how is the key question.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="AGBF|1396619043|

Why on earth penalize children in large families? Have we gone mad? Parents have "too many" kids, so we let the excess ones starve to death?

Deb[/quote]


Haven't heard of any children in this country starve to death b/c of lack of food.

 

[Indylady]

[quote="AGBF|1396619043|

Why on earth penalize children in large families? Have we gone mad? Parents have "too many" kids, so we let the excess ones starve to death?

Deb

Haven't heard of any children in this country starve to death b/c of lack of food.[/quote]

That's because hungry children looking for a meal get become underage prostitutes or join gangs that offer security and some money. Why do you think any child does those things?

 

[ksinger]

[quote="AGBF|1396619043|

Why on earth penalize children in large families? Have we gone mad? Parents have "too many" kids, so we let the excess ones starve to death?

Deb

Haven't heard of any children in this country starve to death b/c of lack of food.

That's because hungry children looking for a meal get become underage prostitutes or join gangs that offer security and some money. Why do you think any child does those things?[/quote]



Because if DF doesn't hear about it, it simply can't exist.

And because if a hungry child doesn't DIE from starvation, then it proves he had enough to eat.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="AGBF|1396619043|

Why on earth penalize children in large families? Have we gone mad? Parents have "too many" kids, so we let the excess ones starve to death?

Deb

Haven't heard of any children in this country starve to death b/c of lack of food.

That's because hungry children looking for a meal get become underage prostitutes or join gangs that offer security and some money. Why do you think any child does those things?[/quote]


Easy answer...b/c most of these kids came from Irresponsible parents or no parents growing up.

 

[Indylady]

[quote="AGBF|1396619043|

Why on earth penalize children in large families? Have we gone mad? Parents have "too many" kids, so we let the excess ones starve to death?

Deb

Haven't heard of any children in this country starve to death b/c of lack of food.

That's because hungry children looking for a meal get become underage prostitutes or join gangs that offer security and some money. Why do you think any child does those things?

Easy answer...b/c most of these kids came from Irresponsible parents or no parents growing up.[/quote]

Easy response...American children are children and should not have to resort to prostitution or gangs to feed themselves, even if they are orphaned or have irresponsible parents. Not only is it best for those kids not to enter prostitution and gangs, its better and probably less expensive for society to give out food rather than combat the criminal activity poverty and hunger create.

 

[Karl_K]

[quote="AGBF|1396619043|

Why on earth penalize children in large families? Have we gone mad? Parents have "too many" kids, so we let the excess ones starve to death?

Deb

Haven't heard of any children in this country starve to death b/c of lack of food.[/quote]
It happens and it ticks me off to no end.
No one, adult nor child should have to go hungry in the US much less starve.
Bad parents is a large part of the problem.

 

[iLander]

Why on earth penalize children in large families? Have we gone mad? Parents have "too many" kids, so we let the excess ones starve to death?

Deb

And this was exactly the response I was hoping to get.

People rant and rail against the people with many children (as has been written in this thread) and it made sense to have everyone argue it to the logical conclusion; what is the alternative, starvation?

I thought it was important to bring this out, my suggestion was not how I actually feel. I'm also hoping others will expand on reproductive freedom as we go further along.

But I am kinda liking the fingerprint idea, ID's can be faked. Or at least the user's photo on the card, so it can't be passed around.

 

[Indylady]

Why on earth penalize children in large families? Have we gone mad? Parents have "too many" kids, so we let the excess ones starve to death?

Deb

And this was exactly the response I was hoping to get.

People rant and rail against the people with many children (as has been written in this thread) and it made sense to have everyone argue it to the logical conclusion; what is the alternative, starvation?

I thought it was important to bring this out, my suggestion was not how I actually feel. I'm also hoping others will expand on reproductive freedom as we go further along.

But I am kinda liking the fingerprint idea, ID's can be faked.

I'm really bothered by the number of posters that have pointed out comments disparaging the use of food stamps because they're given to "mother's with four kids with different last names." Obviously, many have made the point to mention "different last names" and "different fathers"--rather than to be bothered simply by the number of children--they're bothered that those children didn't come out of a single nuclear family. The sense of moral superiority that comes through those posts is just stunning. As if penalizing the kids will turn back time and ensure that they were never born, or as if rich people are all angelic virgins?

 

[amc80]

I'm really bothered by the number of posters that have pointed out comments disparaging the use of food stamps because they're given to "mother's with four kids with different last names." Obviously, many have made the point to mention "different last names" and "different fathers"--rather than to be bothered simply by the number of children--they're bothered that those children didn't come out of a single nuclear family. The sense of moral superiority that comes through those posts is just stunning. As if penalizing the kids will turn back time and ensure that they were never born, or as if rich people are all angelic virgins?

It has nothing to do with moral superiority- it has to do with responsibility. If you already have a kid you can't afford, don't have another. Be responsible enough to get on birth control. I don't really care what people are doing with their own bodies. Be the town bicycle for all I care. But do so responsibly. Birth control fails, I get that. But I'm guessing a lot of these kids are the result of the failure rate- only the failure to use anything.