Why Food Stamps Are NOT A Scam

[Maria D]

Yes, typically highly educated parents with high incomes are hard working and did not achieve that success by relying on government hand-outs that only serve to perpetuate the cycle of poverty.

I know PLENTY Of people with high incomes that don't work nearly as hard as people struggling to get by. (I'm willing to bet that's true of most of us on this thread - how comfortable must your life be if you have time to bray about here? And with high speed internet access to boot, lol) And plenty more that would never have to rely on government handouts because they were born to parents who were already wealthy and into a system that perpetuates the cycle of the wealthy gaining more and more wealth.

 

[Maria D]

I also work in an high poverty high school and don't see this. We have plenty of kids with iPhones and a daily latte habit, but they are not the ones getting free/reduced lunch. I often bring in baked goods to eat in class as the cafeteria closes 15 minutes before classes start and many of my students can't get there in time. They are responsible for getting their younger siblings off to school because their parent(s) work an early shift or is getting sleep from working a late shift.

Sky56, it is great that you were able to overcome situational poverty. Love to hear stories like this! But generational poverty is a whole other paradigm. I'm not saying we, as a society, shouldn't expect people to strive for self-reliance - but we should acknowledge that it is very very difficult to overcome generational poverty. In fact, with the way things are "rigged" (as Deb and iLander have already explained) it's practically impossible. Playspent.org has a nice little online game that shows how expensive it is to be poor.

This is exactly what I am referring to--why have so many children IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO FEED THEM OR SUPERVISE THEM? Why do people feel so entitled to reproduce irresponsibly? Oh I know why, because here in America, there are plenty of well-meaning people who will continue to undermine their true potential to achieve by pacifying them with a substandard subsidy so they can keep existing in their poverty. These bad decision-makers will continue to make bad decisions because they do not plan ahead. Instead, it is all about immediate gratification, even if it comes in the form of a meager welfare subsidy THAT NO ONE ON THIS BOARD ENVIES! The concept of delayed gratification is foreign to bad decision-makers, which only aggravates the problem.

Um, maybe they COULD afford them before the meltdown in 2008 when they lost their nice 9-5 job and had to take any old meager shift-work job? In any case, it's not the kids fault is it? Why so much animosity? This country blows way more money on far more senseless and useless programs than feeding children.

 

[braga123]

I also work in an high poverty high school and don't see this. We have plenty of kids with iPhones and a daily latte habit, but they are not the ones getting free/reduced lunch. I often bring in baked goods to eat in class as the cafeteria closes 15 minutes before classes start and many of my students can't get there in time. They are responsible for getting their younger siblings off to school because their parent(s) work an early shift or is getting sleep from working a late shift.

Sky56, it is great that you were able to overcome situational poverty. Love to hear stories like this! But generational poverty is a whole other paradigm. I'm not saying we, as a society, shouldn't expect people to strive for self-reliance - but we should acknowledge that it is very very difficult to overcome generational poverty. In fact, with the way things are "rigged" (as Deb and iLander have already explained) it's practically impossible. Playspent.org has a nice little online game that shows how expensive it is to be poor.

This is exactly what I am referring to--why have so many children IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO FEED THEM OR SUPERVISE THEM? Why do people feel so entitled to reproduce irresponsibly? Oh I know why, because here in America, there are plenty of well-meaning people who will continue to undermine their true potential to achieve by pacifying them with a substandard subsidy so they can keep existing in their poverty. These bad decision-makers will continue to make bad decisions because they do not plan ahead. Instead, it is all about immediate gratification, even if it comes in the form of a meager welfare subsidy THAT NO ONE ON THIS BOARD ENVIES! The concept of delayed gratification is foreign to bad decision-makers, which only aggravates the problem.

Um, maybe they COULD afford them before the meltdown in 2008 when they lost their nice 9-5 job and had to take any old meager shift-work job? In any case, it's not the kids fault is it? Why so much animosity? This country blows way more money on far more senseless and useless programs than feeding children.

This is bad planning at its worst. Let's have a bunch of kids because NOW I have extra money coming in. No thought about the future. Just live in the NOW. Don't think about college tuition in 18 years. Expect the government to pay for that.
Animosity? For critiquing a failing system? Much better to just victimize all of these people and their offspring...that is working real well, isn't it?
And according to you, bc this gov't blows money senselessly on other programs, I should approve of a program that perpetuates the cycle of poverty? I am not advocating that these children should not be fed. I have not once said that children should be starved. I have been arguing that by handing out benefits in exchange for nothing to parents who cannot plan ahead, ironically, we are hurting the children even more with our good intentions BECAUSE THESE SOCIAL PROGRAMS ARE TOO LAZY TO CREATE A PROGRAM THAT ENCOURAGES A HARD WORK ETHIC WHILE PROVIDING SUBSIDIES. I am very aware that welfare programs were implemented to protect the rich from the poor; it's sad to see that after 100 years, that seems to still be the mentality.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Yes, typically highly educated parents with high incomes are hard working and did not achieve that success by relying on government hand-outs that only serve to perpetuate the cycle of poverty.

I know PLENTY Of people with high incomes that don't work nearly as hard as people struggling to get by. (I'm willing to bet that's true of most of us on this thread - how comfortable must your life be if you have time to bray about here? And with high speed internet access to boot, lol) And plenty more that would never have to rely on government handouts because they were born to parents who were already wealthy and into a system that perpetuates the cycle of the wealthy gaining more and more wealth.

Shouldn't that be the goal ?.. I don't know about others, but I'd want my kids to be better off than I am, which ain't saying much..

 

[Maria D]

I think you're getting yourself in a huff over misinformation. Go check the eligibility rules and time limits. They don't just hand out benefits in exchange for nothing. Clinton fixed that. Just ask Deb - she hates the guy!

 

[AGBF]

I think you're getting yourself in a huff over misinformation. Go check the eligibility rules and time limits. They don't just hand out benefits in exchange for nothing. Clinton fixed that. Just ask Deb - she hates the guy!

Let's just say he was no FDR.

Deb

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="AGBF|1396491372|

Is this the only reason people are educated?

Are we to deduce from this statement that the goal of education is to launch people into the medical field? People who have studied hard and want to earn a higher quality of living? What about those people who have studied hard and want to do scientific research at a lowly wage because it fascinates them? What about those who have studied hard and want to write about literature and pass on their passion to others who are studying at universities? What about those who studied hard and became attorneys but went into low paying jobs to serve the public good?

AGBF
[/quote]


Deb, thanks for making my point, soooo IYO, how many of these well educated people will need public assistance the future?

 

[AGBF]

(quoting AGBF)

Is this the only reason people are educated?

Are we to deduce from this statement that the goal of education is to launch people into the medical field? People who have studied hard and want to earn a higher quality of living? What about those people who have studied hard and want to do scientific research at a lowly wage because it fascinates them? What about those who have studied hard and want to write about literature and pass on their passion to others who are studying at universities? What about those who studied hard and became attorneys but went into low paying jobs to serve the public good?


Deb, thanks for making my point, soooo IYO, how many of these well educated people will need public assistance the future?

Well educated people who do not come from wealthy families have, historically, been subject to the same vicissitudes as other human beings, Dancing Fire. They, also, can lose jobs, family, and health. When there has been no medical insurance medical bills have proven as catastrophic for the educated who lost their jobs as the uneducated. Why should the educated be immune from misfortune?

Deb/AGBF

 

[Dancing Fire]

You know who doesn't work? The 1%. The working poor are on food stamps. Yup. The working poor. And those who would like to be working but are unemployed through no fault of their own. It's called RECESSION.

And why are we still in a RECESSION? Nahhh...you don't wanna hear my answer...

Why not? I can always use a laugh.

Deb

We are still in a recession b/c the current administration have no idea on how to create jobs. Adding 150K jobs per month is not something to write home about during this cycle of our economy. we should be cranking out at least 300k jobs per month by now. more jobs = more taxed $$$ which will help our country paying down the $17 trillion debt.

 

[Dancing Fire]

WOW!!!...Braga for President in 2016...

 

[Sky56]

I graduated from an Ivy League University and so did my parents. I ended up on welfare and food stamps for a while, too. (I've had quite a varied life!)

 

[craighnt]

You know who doesn't work? The 1%. The working poor are on food stamps. Yup. The working poor. And those who would like to be working but are unemployed through no fault of their own. It's called RECESSION.

And why are we still in a RECESSION? Nahhh...you don't wanna hear my answer...

Why not? I can always use a laugh.

Deb

We are still in a recession b/c the current administration have no idea on how to create jobs. Adding 150K jobs per month is not something to write home about during this cycle of our economy. we should be cranking out at least 300k jobs per month by now. more jobs = more taxed $$$ which will help our country paying down the $17 trillion debt.

Well, perhaps you are project blame on the wrong guy. If I am not mistaken in 2010, the Republican party talking point repeated over and over: its about Jobs, jobs, jobs. They won on that platform and there was a shift in power. So now years later how many jobs bills have they introduced since then? .........0. That's right, not a single one. Bills to kill Obama Care? 40 and counting.

Its the roll of Congress to make laws, not the President. He can only sign them or veto them. It's called balance of power.

If JOBS are really your concern, you should really be blaming the right wing of congress who ran on the promise and have not derived even a half hatted attempt at any law to make it happen.

So, would you like some cheese with that whine?

 

[nkarma]

Food stamp users already have "transparency" (such a nice, new term). They have to show coupons that everyone can see and which alerts everyone to scrutinize their grocery carts. I am so glad to know that they buy a lot of potato salad, for example. If it were not for transparency, how would I know that?

I suggest that from now on corporations and hedge fund managers also get paid in grocery store coupons that they must, personally, use in stores. I would like to see how they use their money. After all, what's sauce for the goose, is sauce for gander.

We all believe that programs are fine if they are run fairly, correct? Right now I cannot see the hedge fund managers' money. Or Walmarts'. If they get paid in grocery store coupons, we can all look in their carts. That would make me feel a lot better.

Another story, and I think I've mentioned this on another thread some time ago... I worked with a very nice lady (she was a Rx tech) who was having a really hard time. She had three kids and worked 2 jobs to try to make ends meet. So she went to the appropriate government offices to apply for some help via food stamps. Sounds like the perfect candidate, right? The type of candidate that most people would feel good about our government helping out, right? Turns out she was told she made "way too much money to get government assistance." She told me that she almost started to cry and asked if there was anything else she could apply for, and the government worker advised her to quit her second job entirely, and ask for her hours to be decreased to part-time at her pharmacy job... then she could get food stamps. Nice advice.

This country is breeding generation after generation of lazy, entitled idiots who will proudly defraud government programs with no shame whatsoever. Our government is to blame because they have allowed the welfare system to be abused for years and this mentality/behavior is actually encouraged. There will come a time (probably sooner than later) when the number of people who refuse to work will outnumber those who work to pay for those who refuse to work.

How terribly sad for that woman and the millions of other like her. I actually just want to cry reading it!

Another way to look at this is possibly increasing the minimum income for assistance. Saying that we should take it all away because it only helps the people that make absolutely nothing (and therefore theoretically encourage people to not work which no one here has documented besides one time stories). That or hold the corporations who are raking in billions while not paying their workers a living wage accountable.

 

[nkarma]

Heaven forbid that poor people want to be part of a community; or want to eat a steak or enjoy something. Ribeyes should only be for the rich and entitled. Poor people should only eat poor people food, right?

If someone is taking me out to dinner, I don't order the most expensive thing on the menu just because I'm not paying. I also don't order a bunch extra to take home and feed my friends.

If someone can use their benefits to buy steak and lobster or feed their neighborhood, they either 1) are getting too much in benefits, or 2) don't need the benefits to begin with. The point of social aid is to be temporary help for times when people need it. It is supposed to get them through until they can stand on their own two feet. It isn't supposed to allow them to live frivolously. And yes, steak is frivolous.

Or they are making a sacrifice, and going without food for the sake of being able to contribute to their community.

Why do you feel like its ok for you to determine what is frivolous for another person? Would you feel the same if someone more rich than you said that you shouldn't be able to have a mortgage and still purchase diamonds? f you have debt, even 'understandable debt' like a mortgage (that the government has had to remedy) or government subsidized student loans, should you be allowed to buy a frivolous luxury good like a diamond?

There are standards in place to determine eligibility. I'm grateful to live in a country that values freedom, where the government and the citizens can't exclude me from buying a certain cut of meat because I'm too poor to be allowed the choice to eat steak for one dinner and ramen for the rest.

Because like amc said, it's not their money and they are not the ones footing the bill. We taxpayers are. When they are spending *their* money, they can buy whatever they desire.

Plus it's just plain old common sense. If someone was on public aid and they came to this forum wanting to buy a $15k Leon e-ring, wouldn't you think that might not be the best use of funds?

I don't begrudge anyone public aid, as long as it's used responsibly and appropriately.

But you have used and currently use public aid! Did you get a University education? While they are open for anyone who qualifies in large numbers it is wealthy and middle class who use this heavily tax subsized benefit. That tuition you paid every semester wasn't what it actually cost for you to attend, a large majority was paid by tax payers. Do you have a mortgage where you deduct you income payments? Again only available for those who can afford a home. Have you had government subsidized student loans?

How would it feel then if I said because I pay more taxes than you, I get to decide what you spend your money on. I mean I am footing the bill, you can't have that healthy food tonight, Burger King has a $1 menu. Actually I think you should eat ramen and Burger King every meal until you stop using government assistance.

 

[AGBF]

But you have used and currently use public aid! Did you get a University education? While they are open for anyone who qualifies in large numbers it is wealthy and middle class who use this heavily tax subsized benefit. That tuition you paid every semester wasn't what it actually cost for you to attend, a large majority was paid by tax payers. Do you have a mortgage where you deduct you income payments? Again only available for those who can afford a home. Have you had government subsidized student loans?

How would it feel then if I said because I pay more taxes than you, I get to decide what you spend your money on. I mean I am footing the bill, you can't have that healthy food tonight, Burger King has a $1 menu. Actually I think you should eat ramen and Burger King every meal until you stop using government assistance.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you for making this point, nkarma! No one who chastises the poor ever seems to "get it"!!! The mortgage payments that we all get to deduct from our income taxes were not ordained by God. It was only our Congress, acting on behalf of the American voters, who put into place a system that helped the wealthier Americans by subsidizing their housing and not the housing of the poor with that mortgage deduction!!! Anyone with a mortgage is, indeed, on public assistance. Any woman with a mortgage who calls another woman a welfare queen is talking about her sister!!!

PS-There is no more welfare. As MariaD said, Clinton did away with it. Now all there is only food stamps, and the wicked men in Congress want to take that way, too. May God forgive them.

Deb/AGBF

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="craighnt|1396510496|Well, perhaps you are project blame on the wrong guy. If I am not mistaken in 2010, the Republican party talking point repeated over and over: its about Jobs, jobs, jobs. They won on that platform and there was a shift in power. So now years later how many jobs bills have they introduced since then? .........0. That's right, not a single one. Bills to kill Obama Care? 40 and counting.

Its the roll of Congress to make laws, not the President. He can only sign them or veto them. It's called balance of power.

If JOBS are really your concern, you should really be blaming the right wing of congress who ran on the promise and have not derived even a half hatted attempt at any law to make it happen.

So, would you like some cheese with that whine? [/quote]



Of course I blame Bush...
I thought the Dems had control of both the house and senate before the 2010 midterm election... Anyway, no matter which party is in power...at this stage of the economic cycle we should be creating more jobs.

 

[iLander]

This is exactly what I am referring to--why have so many children IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO FEED THEM OR SUPERVISE THEM? Why do people feel so entitled to reproduce irresponsibly? Oh I know why, because here in America, there are plenty of well-meaning people who will continue to undermine their true potential to achieve by pacifying them with a substandard subsidy so they can keep existing in their poverty. These bad decision-makers will continue to make bad decisions because they do not plan ahead. Instead, it is all about immediate gratification, even if it comes in the form of a meager welfare subsidy THAT NO ONE ON THIS BOARD ENVIES! The concept of delayed gratification is foreign to bad decision-makers, which only aggravates the problem.

And THIS is the number one reason that contraceptives should be paid for under Obamacare. I think that the 5-year implant should be available to any and all that want it, free.

I think it's the height of hypocrisy to fault people for having too many children, and then not hand out all the birth control that they want and need. I would pass it out like Chicklets if it were me; want a sterilization? Step right up. Want an implant? This line over here. Want sponges or whatever? Here's a case of them.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="ksinger|1396477634|
IBecause kicking those below you is easier than taking on the real a**holes above, that's why. And by distancing yourself mentally and morally from people in those circumstances, you can delude yourself that YOU aren't in any danger of becoming THEM. It's a sop to make us who are in more precarious situations than we want to admit, feel better. I'D never make those horrible choices!! But the fact is, if you'd lived their lives, you likely would. Yes, you and me and most here, won the lucky sperm contest and just don't wish to admit it.[/quote]



But those "real A$$ holes" paid most of the taxes in this country.

 

[Dancing Fire]

(quoting AGBF)

Is this the only reason people are educated?

Are we to deduce from this statement that the goal of education is to launch people into the medical field? People who have studied hard and want to earn a higher quality of living? What about those people who have studied hard and want to do scientific research at a lowly wage because it fascinates them? What about those who have studied hard and want to write about literature and pass on their passion to others who are studying at universities? What about those who studied hard and became attorneys but went into low paying jobs to serve the public good?


Deb, thanks for making my point, soooo IYO, how many of these well educated people will need public assistance the future?

Well educated people who do not come from wealthy families have, historically, been subject to the same vicissitudes as other human beings, Dancing Fire. They, also, can lose jobs, family, and health. When there has been no medical insurance medical bills have proven as catastrophic for the educated who lost their jobs as the uneducated. Why should the educated be immune from misfortune?

Deb/AGBF

Sure it can happen to any one of us in this country, but it is also not by mistakes that most of the high paying jobs in silicon valley are dominated by well educated Asians.

JJ is so silly... http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_25369262/jesse-jackson-take-techs-lack-diversity

 

[Dancing Fire]

This is exactly what I am referring to--why have so many children IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO FEED THEM OR SUPERVISE THEM? Why do people feel so entitled to reproduce irresponsibly? Oh I know why, because here in America, there are plenty of well-meaning people who will continue to undermine their true potential to achieve by pacifying them with a substandard subsidy so they can keep existing in their poverty. These bad decision-makers will continue to make bad decisions because they do not plan ahead. Instead, it is all about immediate gratification, even if it comes in the form of a meager welfare subsidy THAT NO ONE ON THIS BOARD ENVIES! The concept of delayed gratification is foreign to bad decision-makers, which only aggravates the problem.

And THIS is the number one reason that contraceptives should be paid for under Obamacare. I think that the 5-year implant should be available to any and all that want it, free.

I think it's the height of hypocrisy to fault people for having too many children, and then not hand out all the birth control that they want and need. I would pass it out like Chicklets if it were me; want a sterilization? Step right up. Want an implant? This line over here. Want sponges or whatever? Here's a case of them.

Yes this is all my fault...
http://www.examiner.com/article/tennessee-man-tells-child-support-court-he-has-21-children

 

[msop04]

This is exactly what I am referring to--why have so many children IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO FEED THEM OR SUPERVISE THEM? Why do people feel so entitled to reproduce irresponsibly? Oh I know why, because here in America, there are plenty of well-meaning people who will continue to undermine their true potential to achieve by pacifying them with a substandard subsidy so they can keep existing in their poverty. These bad decision-makers will continue to make bad decisions because they do not plan ahead. Instead, it is all about immediate gratification, even if it comes in the form of a meager welfare subsidy THAT NO ONE ON THIS BOARD ENVIES! The concept of delayed gratification is foreign to bad decision-makers, which only aggravates the problem.

And THIS is the number one reason that contraceptives should be paid for under Obamacare. I think that the 5-year implant should be available to any and all that want it, free.

I think it's the height of hypocrisy to fault people for having too many children, and then not hand out all the birth control that they want and need. I would pass it out like Chicklets if it were me; want a sterilization? Step right up. Want an implant? This line over here. Want sponges or whatever? Here's a case of them.

I agree 100% that birth control should be covered by any and every health insurance. Unforturnately, many of those who misuse/abuse the system still refuse to be on birth control. The more kids you have, the more aid you can receive, and the abusers are well aware of this. Unfortunately, the women who use their children to get more benefit are the ones who typically do not take care of their children with this extra benefit. The highest copay for any Medicaid Rx coverage is $3. This copay is typically reserved for high dollar/brand-only medications. The copays assigned are $0-$1 90% of the time.

So many times my colleagues and I have had women on Medicaid come in from the doctor's office with a handful of medications, including birth control. The birth control is usually the only one they do not want filled -- yet they have 4 or more kids in the back seat with 3 different last names, none of which are the mother's last name and all on full Medicaid. In these instances, BC is all but paid for by their welfare, but you can't make them get it, and you certainly can't make them take it. I think implants are a wonderful idea, but most of the women who would be in line for them would be those who are interested in being responsible and care enough to understand that they cannot afford any/more children in the forseeable future. These women tend to be the ones who want very much to better themselves in hopes of their family (or themselves) not being dependent on welfare.

 

[msop04]

Yes this is all my fault...
http://www.examiner.com/article/tennessee-man-tells-child-support-court-he-has-21-children

OMG... I remember this. I'm from TN originally. One of my sisters lives in Knoxville, and sent this link to me several years ago. So embarrassing...

 

[nkarma]

[quote="ksinger|1396477634|
IBecause kicking those below you is easier than taking on the real a**holes above, that's why. And by distancing yourself mentally and morally from people in those circumstances, you can delude yourself that YOU aren't in any danger of becoming THEM. It's a sop to make us who are in more precarious situations than we want to admit, feel better. I'D never make those horrible choices!! But the fact is, if you'd lived their lives, you likely would. Yes, you and me and most here, won the lucky sperm contest and just don't wish to admit it.

But those "real A$$ holes" paid most of the taxes in this country.[/quote]

You are joking right? As a percentage of income, the richest people pay the least taxes.

It's actually because the billionaires are invested in keeping the middle class so focused on the people below them and the pennies of their taxes that go to support the poor, then focus on the actually money that goes to corporate tax loopholes, profits, corporate subsidies, trillion dollar wars that benefit corporations, etc... In this whole thread, we are arguing about pennies.

I would actually like to see us get rid of food stamps entirely & then see what other drains on the system we can talk about for 24 hours a day.....veterans, the elderly?

 

[Kelinas]

I am currently working as a pricing /inventory specialist for a retail chain, so I get first hand views at how people abuse the system. People from my county have admitted that they would rather remain jobless because the benefits are better than if they were to get a job.

Everyday I hear comments like "I'm gonna use my free money for food and use MY money for this 6 pk of beer.
Everyday I see people using their cards to buy sh*t like soda and chips, and it aggravates the daylight out of me.
To me, EBT should be like WIC healthy, base ingredients, not processed junk.

I'm ALL for people getting assistance, if you need it, then by all means get it.- but if its coming out of MY tax dollars, you better bet I'm going to dislike the fact that they buy junk.

I've seen people with 2 THOUSAND dollars on their card balance who don't need it versus families that I personally go out of my way to help because they just simply can't afford it.
I like the system- it just needs to be handled better.

Sorry for the rant

 

[msop04]

It seems to me that you often have strong feelings about topics that you do not understand...like the 28th amendment...and math, as Maria posted about...perhaps it was your skewed understanding of the cost per meal that makes you passionate, or a skewed understanding of an amendment that does not exist?

Unlike some, I can admit when I have made a mistake, as in the math. And, God forbid, I pose a question or seek clarification on something that I found to be offensive. Maybe I should have waited until I was at home and could actually have access to "real internet," because I was clearly wrong, as I promptly acknowledged, but not before all the nice, caring humanitarians on this board took the opportunity to crucify me for it. Maybe you didn't read that far -- which was about the 4th comment in the thread (my 2nd comment), or more likely didn't care to acknowledge, as it wouldn't support your petty attack on me, personally. I understand it's much easier to try to embarrass or discredit those who disagree with you. Ever notice that many of those who are so consumed with the idea that everyone should be equal and have all the same things (regardless of if they have done anything to deserve it or, heaven forbid, worked for it) are the same people who find it perfectly okay and appropriate to treat their fellow man -- their "equals" -- with disrespect in their everyday lives, with no room for mistake? As you stated earlier, to each their own.

I am passionate because I have worked hard for everything I have, and I will not apologize for it. I disagree very much with how government programs are abused and this behavior encouraged. The fact that I'm bothered by the abuse does not mean that I disagree with the programs. I don't know one person who would want to take welfare programs away entirely. Let me clarify as to not be misunderstood, I support the system, but not the blatant fraud. I am pro-welfare, but against the abuse. However, I have never spoken with anyone who is okay with the obvious abuse. The same goes for the rich and the poor. That said, this thread was about food stamps/SNAP programs, so that is what I am commenting on.

If only a very small percentage of people on welfare are abusing it, then they must live in AL -- which would make sense because everyone knows all Southerners are merely simple-minded, gun-totin', Bible quotin', God-fearing folks who just don't know any better. Good thing there are so many enlightened ones with all the answers. That's working out great for this country. After all, we're much better off than we've ever been... Sheesh.

 

[msop04]

I am currently working as a pricing /inventory specialist for a retail chain, so I get first hand views at how people abuse the system. People from my county have admitted that they would rather remain jobless because the benefits are better than if they were to get a job.

Everyday I hear comments like "I'm gonna use my free money for food and use MY money for this 6 pk of beer.
Everyday I see people using their cards to buy sh*t like soda and chips, and it aggravates the daylight out of me.
To me, EBT should be like WIC healthy, base ingredients, not processed junk.

I'm ALL for people getting assistance, if you need it, then by all means get it.- but if its coming out of MY tax dollars, you better bet I'm going to dislike the fact that they buy junk.

I've seen people with 2 THOUSAND dollars on their card balance who don't need it versus families that I personally go out of my way to help because they just simply can't afford it.
I like the system- it just needs to be handled better.

Sorry for the rant

Kelinas, do we shop at the same places???

But seriously, that's what I see almost every week in the grocery. My current company isn't contracted with Medicaid, but this type behavior was a common occurrence at my old job -- in the pharmacy and front registers... multiple times per day. It's abuse of a well-meaning system, and even worse, the feeling of entitlement. It's people like this that burn me up.

 

[ksinger]

[quote="ksinger|1396477634|
IBecause kicking those below you is easier than taking on the real a**holes above, that's why. And by distancing yourself mentally and morally from people in those circumstances, you can delude yourself that YOU aren't in any danger of becoming THEM. It's a sop to make us who are in more precarious situations than we want to admit, feel better. I'D never make those horrible choices!! But the fact is, if you'd lived their lives, you likely would. Yes, you and me and most here, won the lucky sperm contest and just don't wish to admit it.

But those "real A$$ holes" paid most of the taxes in this country.

You are joking right? As a percentage of income, the richest people pay the least taxes.

It's actually because the billionaires are invested in keeping the middle class so focused on the people below them and the pennies of their taxes that go to support the poor, then focus on the actually money that goes to corporate tax loopholes, profits, corporate subsidies, trillion dollar wars that benefit corporations, etc... In this whole thread, we are arguing about pennies.

I would actually like to see us get rid of food stamps entirely & then see what other drains on the system we can talk about for 24 hours a day.....veterans, the elderly?[/quote]

Absolutely: bait and switch and keep those plebs arguing amongst themselves over scraps while we offshore the jobs and the loot, continue to buy the press and the legislatures (THANKS SUPREME COURT!! LOVE YA!!), and lock in the plutocracy.

Life is GOOD!

 

[movie zombie]

that "junk" food everyone complains about being bought with food stamps? the list of approved foods on that list is set by Congress. don't get pissed at the people buying what is legal with the stamps.....be pissed off at your elected Congressional critter. and why is junk food on that list in the first place? thank the corporate lobbyists that were paid by the corporations that make that junk food and got catsup listed as a veggie and pizza as well.

food stamps was presented to the public as a program to help people when the Reality is that it was to help corporations push more food onto the shelves. the success of the program is the marketing that it is to help people and so many here have bought that idea. it never was for that purpose. what a scam.

if putting food on the family table is the issue then those junk foods wouldn't be on the list.
if putting food on the family table those working 30-40 hours a week would make enough $ to pay for the bills and not have to refuse work in order to put that food on the table AND pay for rent.

and I just get so dang mad at times because despite the sins of the parents the KIDS HAVE A RIGHT TO EAT.
I don't care if there is fraud and abuse by the parents....who in their right mind punishes the kids for the sins of their parents?

want to be upset about fraud in the program? look to your congress critter and the corporations first. when I start to see a backlash against the Walmarts of the world that benefit two ways from the program, i'll take seriously the petty complaints of abuse by the recipients.

rant over.

 

[amc80]

Heaven forbid that poor people want to be part of a community; or want to eat a steak or enjoy something. Ribeyes should only be for the rich and entitled. Poor people should only eat poor people food, right?

If someone is taking me out to dinner, I don't order the most expensive thing on the menu just because I'm not paying. I also don't order a bunch extra to take home and feed my friends.

If someone can use their benefits to buy steak and lobster or feed their neighborhood, they either 1) are getting too much in benefits, or 2) don't need the benefits to begin with. The point of social aid is to be temporary help for times when people need it. It is supposed to get them through until they can stand on their own two feet. It isn't supposed to allow them to live frivolously. And yes, steak is frivolous.

Or they are making a sacrifice, and going without food for the sake of being able to contribute to their community.

Why do you feel like its ok for you to determine what is frivolous for another person? Would you feel the same if someone more rich than you said that you shouldn't be able to have a mortgage and still purchase diamonds? f you have debt, even 'understandable debt' like a mortgage (that the government has had to remedy) or government subsidized student loans, should you be allowed to buy a frivolous luxury good like a diamond?

There are standards in place to determine eligibility. I'm grateful to live in a country that values freedom, where the government and the citizens can't exclude me from buying a certain cut of meat because I'm too poor to be allowed the choice to eat steak for one dinner and ramen for the rest.

A mortgage is not government aid. The only person paying my mortgage (or credit cards) is me. With interest. If I choose to make the minimum payment and have more free cash flow to buy diamonds, that's my choice. I will pay for it in the end with more money having gone to interest. My choice. Because it's MY MONEY. The only way it would be irresponsible is if I defaulted on loans and filed bankruptcy and didn't end up paying off the loan. A subsidized student loan only means that the government is paying the interest while I'm in school. After graduation, I'm on the hook for the interest. But if a student is getting subsidize loans and is off buying diamonds while in college, then I would say they ARE abusing their aid and probably don't need it in the first place.

 

[nkarma]

Heaven forbid that poor people want to be part of a community; or want to eat a steak or enjoy something. Ribeyes should only be for the rich and entitled. Poor people should only eat poor people food, right?

If someone is taking me out to dinner, I don't order the most expensive thing on the menu just because I'm not paying. I also don't order a bunch extra to take home and feed my friends.

If someone can use their benefits to buy steak and lobster or feed their neighborhood, they either 1) are getting too much in benefits, or 2) don't need the benefits to begin with. The point of social aid is to be temporary help for times when people need it. It is supposed to get them through until they can stand on their own two feet. It isn't supposed to allow them to live frivolously. And yes, steak is frivolous.

Or they are making a sacrifice, and going without food for the sake of being able to contribute to their community.

Why do you feel like its ok for you to determine what is frivolous for another person? Would you feel the same if someone more rich than you said that you shouldn't be able to have a mortgage and still purchase diamonds? f you have debt, even 'understandable debt' like a mortgage (that the government has had to remedy) or government subsidized student loans, should you be allowed to buy a frivolous luxury good like a diamond?

There are standards in place to determine eligibility. I'm grateful to live in a country that values freedom, where the government and the citizens can't exclude me from buying a certain cut of meat because I'm too poor to be allowed the choice to eat steak for one dinner and ramen for the rest.

A mortgage is not government aid. The only person paying my mortgage (or credit cards) is me. With interest. If I choose to make the minimum payment and have more free cash flow to buy diamonds, that's my choice. I will pay for it in the end with more money having gone to interest. My choice. Because it's MY MONEY. The only way it would be irresponsible is if I defaulted on loans and filed bankruptcy and didn't end up paying off the loan. A subsidized student loan only means that the government is paying the interest while I'm in school. After graduation, I'm on the hook for the interest. But if a student is getting subsidize loans and is off buying diamonds while in college, then I would say they ARE abusing their aid and probably don't need it in the first place.

Your tax deductions for your mortgage interest (HMI) are government aid.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304709904579407111906612936

I am glad that subsidized student loans while in school only means during while you are in school. For people with big loans, that is significant. I saved a couple thousand at least. It is a benefit I got. When I made under a certain amount, I also deducted my student loan interest every year in my taxes. Helped a lot!