Withholding?

[partgypsy]

When I first read the question my thought was "immature and backfiring." But after reading some of the responses, I think it all hinges on WHY she is doing it. If it is withhold A to get B, then I think it''s stupid. If it''s because she is reevaluating the relationship and wants to see it clearly without the "heat" of sex, as part of an active process, then it might be a good thing, for both of them.
It shouldn''t just be the removal of sex, but an examination for herself, asking questions like: do I want to be in the relationship as it stands? (Other than chemistry) do we have anything in common? Will we be here for each other in sickness and health? If I was in a hospital bed seriously ill, would he leave me because we couldn''t have sex?
Second by hopefully creating a new way of interacting with your significant other. Sex is easy. It''s good to have great vibes from sex. Is there any other glue holding this thing together. The "sex fast" should not be interminable, but simply a catalyst. If this is the case and I explained this to my partner, and my partner said, well I''m leaving because we aren''t having sex, that would answer her question just as well.

 

[iheartscience]

Hmm...it sounds like she''s really thought it through, so I''m going to side with purelily and allycat on this one. I think she has every right to change the status of the relationship if she feels it will help clarify things or wake her boyfriend up.

I actually have an acquaintance type friend who was living with her boyfriend. She then realized she didn''t want to live together without being engaged so she moved out. He proposed pretty much immediately and she moved back in after they were engaged. I don''t really see much difference in her situation and trill''s friend''s situation.

 

[whitby_2773]

this lady sounds like she is well and truly p*ssed off!

and i think having sex while angry, and the subconscious messages one absorbs while doing so, are much more damaging then telling the guy she won''t sleep with him till he decies he''s as committed as she is.

she''s obviously made a lift time commitment to him - or at least wants to. he hasn''t, ergo is less committed. for her, her body goes along with commitment.

her method might be rough and ready, but her logic is sound.

when people have sex while angry it attaches negative feelings to sex and to the other partner that can NEVER help a relationship. her wording might not be great - but imagine she had said this:

"i''m ready to make a lifelong commitment to you, and i''ve been waiting for you to want to make the same commitment to me. yet you aren''t making that step. for me, sex is only part of a committed, lifelong relationship, so i no longer want to have sex with you while our levels of commitment are so unequal."

would it sound so crazy then? if she went into the relationship thinking they''d be at a different place now to where they actually are, and for her sex was part of that, is it really unfair for her to say "my body, my choice" if she doesn''t get what she needs relationally?

her wording was probably not great (tho keep in mind that we don''t know exactly what she said), but i sure understand where she''s coming from. and continuing as she was, and letting the resentment build, is an even more sure way of putting a bullet through the head of their sex life going forward.

if she can no longer bring full enjoyment and openness and physical generosity to the bedroom, she''s better to withdraw until she can, or until they split. if he dislikes the new arrangement, he has options also, of which i''m sure she''s aware.

 

[Tuckins1]

She''s nuts.... That''s just torturing HERSELF too!!

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I guess I''m confused as to why witholding anything as a form of manipulation is okay? I get wanting to end a relationship that is not fulfilling a woman''s needs (I did), but to do it solely to try to extort a proposal? How could anybody possibly think that is healthy or any indication that either party is ready for marriage?

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 7/23/2009 7:51:55 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
I guess I''m confused as to why witholding anything as a form of manipulation is okay? I get wanting to end a relationship that is not fulfilling a woman''s needs (I did), but to do it solely to try to extort a proposal? How could anybody possibly think that is healthy or any indication that either party is ready for marriage?

trillionaire added more details (on page 1 or 2?) that make it seem less like her friend is saying "NO SEX UNTIL A RING" and more like her friend is actually trying to reevaluate her situation, clarify her feelings, etc. That''s what really swayed me.

And honestly, I don''t see much difference in cutting off sex to wake someone up or moving out to wake someone up. I can''t see myself doing it, but if it helps her then what''s the problem?

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 7/23/2009 10:38:47 PM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 7/23/2009 7:51:55 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
I guess I'm confused as to why witholding anything as a form of manipulation is okay? I get wanting to end a relationship that is not fulfilling a woman's needs (I did), but to do it solely to try to extort a proposal? How could anybody possibly think that is healthy or any indication that either party is ready for marriage?

trillionaire added more details (on page 1 or 2?) that make it seem less like her friend is saying 'NO SEX UNTIL A RING' and more like her friend is actually trying to reevaluate her situation, clarify her feelings, etc. That's what really swayed me.

And honestly, I don't see much difference in cutting off sex to wake someone up or moving out to wake someone up. I can't see myself doing it, but if it helps her then what's the problem?

In my mind the problem is that there is something much bigger than sex that isn't working in the relationship if this is what it comes down to. I can't fathom being in a relationship that I hoped would lead to marriage with someone who didn't want the same things as me, and wasn't working as my partner towards our common goals. I don't think her solution going to fix the problem in a way that will satisfy both of them. If and when he decides he is she'll never know if it was because he felt manipulated into proposing or he was truly ready to commit to her. They are both responsible for their own happiness but there are more adult ways of finding common ground than "I'm done having sex with you until there's a ring on my finger." My perspective is that I wouldn't want to have "wake someone up", I want a partner who is headed in the same direction as me, and if he's not I would be doing a lot more than questioning whether or not we should be having sex, I would be wondering why we were together in the first place and making a decision about that.

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 7/23/2009 6:42:52 PM
Author: whitby_2773

when people have sex while angry it attaches negative feelings to sex and to the other partner that can NEVER help a relationship. her wording might not be great - but imagine she had said this:

''i''m ready to make a lifelong commitment to you, and i''ve been waiting for you to want to make the same commitment to me. yet you aren''t making that step. for me, sex is only part of a committed, lifelong relationship, so i no longer want to have sex with you while our levels of commitment are so unequal.''

would it sound so crazy then? if she went into the relationship thinking they''d be at a different place now to where they actually are, and for her sex was part of that, is it really unfair for her to say ''my body, my choice'' if she doesn''t get what she needs relationally?

It would, because she already had sex with him before they were commited to a liflong relationship, and it doesn''t sound like her intent is to back off because she''s afraid things are unequal now, it seems as though she''s doing this to extort a ring out of him. And if he''s truly denying her what she needs she should be worried a lot less about sex and a lot more about whether or not the person she has decided she wants to marry is truly right for her. The focus on witholding sex as a means to an end is what is disturbing to me; it''s not like she''s asking him to go to counseling and see if they can work to find some middle ground and thinks it''s best to stop having sex until they work things out in a way that is reasonable for both of them, she''s just saying "No ring, no sex."

 

[tlh]

Date: 7/23/2009 11:21:35 PM
Author: KimberlyH

Date: 7/23/2009 6:42:52 PM
Author: whitby_2773

when people have sex while angry it attaches negative feelings to sex and to the other partner that can NEVER help a relationship. her wording might not be great - but imagine she had said this:

''i''m ready to make a lifelong commitment to you, and i''ve been waiting for you to want to make the same commitment to me. yet you aren''t making that step. for me, sex is only part of a committed, lifelong relationship, so i no longer want to have sex with you while our levels of commitment are so unequal.''

would it sound so crazy then? if she went into the relationship thinking they''d be at a different place now to where they actually are, and for her sex was part of that, is it really unfair for her to say ''my body, my choice'' if she doesn''t get what she needs relationally?

It would, because she already had sex with him before they were commited to a liflong relationship, and it doesn''t sound like her intent is to back off because she''s afraid things are unequal now, it seems as though she''s doing this to extort a ring out of him. And if he''s truly denying her what she needs she should be worried a lot less about sex and a lot more about whether or not the person she has decided she wants to marry is truly right for her. The focus on witholding sex as a means to an end is what is disturbing to me; it''s not like she''s asking him to go to counseling and see if they can work to find some middle ground and thinks it''s best to stop having sex until they work things out in a way that is reasonable for both of them, she''s just saying ''No ring, no sex.''

at somepoint, having sex, doing it.. the nasty.. whatever you call it.. should turn into "making love" something sweet and tender between two people. Emotions change, feelings change, sex comlicates things. Relationships evolve. Yes, when you feel that the next step is marriage.. and your partner isn''t leaning that way.. bitterness, unhappiness - whatever, are not positive feelings to bring into the bedroom... or to use a good sex life as a tool to fix the broken things in your relationship.

I don''t feel this is one of those "trying to put toothpaste back in a tube" kind of arguments. Just because they were doing it before... doesn''t mean all the details are still the same, and she should continue to have sex.. just because she already did. I disagree with that logic.

 

[Pushin40]

Of coarse a woman has the right to do whatever she wants with her body.

On the other hand, I am not a fan of bullying, threats, deadlines, or withholding sex to "get" someone to propose. No matter how you slice it, its manipulation and its nothing to be proud of.

Hope she gets her way.....what other tactics does she keep in her back pocket in order to get what she wants??? I think she is showing her true colors.

I really think you have to remember there are 2 people in a relationship, and both have their own ideas, needs, and timelines.

 

[purelily]

I typed a very long response to this question, but i guess in the end the computer ate it because it was too personal hehe.

tlh Said it best. Relationships and their circumstances change.

It would be too painful to write again, but because of the past ( I alluded to my past relationship in other posts) I will NOT EVER question a woman who decides to take sex out of her relationship. Here's a quick summary of what happened. We were engaged.I took it out. I didn't feel a connection. He forced it more than once. I left and decided the avoidance of sex was the best thing I did in my life because I would have never known of the lengths he would go to get what he wanted.

Suffice it to say because of this, I told my SO in the beginning no sex until engagement or until I was absolutely sure we were perfect for each other and I was comfortable with him. The thought of sex made me cringe and I hated to be touched for a while. My SO is so patient he is working through this with me.

Some men may see it as manipulation like. oh, she won't have sex with me because she wants to be engaged because she's already had sex before. But, for me, its something i needed to do.

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 7/24/2009 1:58:08 PM
Author: tlh

Date: 7/23/2009 11:21:35 PM
Author: KimberlyH

Date: 7/23/2009 6:42:52 PM
Author: whitby_2773

when people have sex while angry it attaches negative feelings to sex and to the other partner that can NEVER help a relationship. her wording might not be great - but imagine she had said this:

''i''m ready to make a lifelong commitment to you, and i''ve been waiting for you to want to make the same commitment to me. yet you aren''t making that step. for me, sex is only part of a committed, lifelong relationship, so i no longer want to have sex with you while our levels of commitment are so unequal.''

would it sound so crazy then? if she went into the relationship thinking they''d be at a different place now to where they actually are, and for her sex was part of that, is it really unfair for her to say ''my body, my choice'' if she doesn''t get what she needs relationally?

It would, because she already had sex with him before they were commited to a liflong relationship, and it doesn''t sound like her intent is to back off because she''s afraid things are unequal now, it seems as though she''s doing this to extort a ring out of him. And if he''s truly denying her what she needs she should be worried a lot less about sex and a lot more about whether or not the person she has decided she wants to marry is truly right for her. The focus on witholding sex as a means to an end is what is disturbing to me; it''s not like she''s asking him to go to counseling and see if they can work to find some middle ground and thinks it''s best to stop having sex until they work things out in a way that is reasonable for both of them, she''s just saying ''No ring, no sex.''

at somepoint, having sex, doing it.. the nasty.. whatever you call it.. should turn into ''making love'' something sweet and tender between two people. Emotions change, feelings change, sex comlicates things. Relationships evolve. Yes, when you feel that the next step is marriage.. and your partner isn''t leaning that way.. bitterness, unhappiness - whatever, are not positive feelings to bring into the bedroom... or to use a good sex life as a tool to fix the broken things in your relationship.

I don''t feel this is one of those ''trying to put toothpaste back in a tube'' kind of arguments. Just because they were doing it before... doesn''t mean all the details are still the same, and she should continue to have sex.. just because she already did. I disagree with that logic.

TLH, I agree with you, if she doesn''t want to continue to have sex she shouldn''t, for whatever reason, but I think that "witholding" as a means to an end, which is what this woman is doing, is childish and likely to result in something not so pleasant. My point isn''t about sex, it''s that there are major issues in their relationship if this is what it has come down to, and her solution is not going to solve the bigger problem -- this is a couple who must not be on the same page and struggle to communicate, otherwise this situation would have never been an option in the first place. As a couple they should be working together to make sure they are both content in the relationship, and finding compromise if they aren''t. I just don''t comprehend being in a committed relationship where I would feel like I had to take something away from my partner, no matter what it was, to make a point, if things are that bad why doesn''t she move on with her life? Relationships are about working together, not rewards and punishments and being in control.

 

[princesss]

I''ve been thinking about this topic a lot over the past few days, and I think what it boils down to is that I don''t think there is a need for this in a healthy relationship. If one person feels they need to pull back in this way, it definitely signals that something larger is off-kilter. And if something is truly wrong and the needs of both partners are not being met, both parties have the right to end the relationship and look elsewhere.

 

[purelily]

Princess I agree with you, but I also think that it is a good way of re-evaluating the relationship/finding out what he really wants. Is it an engagement? if yes, good for her. If no, then they are different areas and should probably part ways.

 

[princesss]

Date: 7/24/2009 5:28:15 PM
Author: purelily
<b> Princess </b> I agree with you, but I also think that it is a good way of re-evaluating the relationship/finding out what he really wants. Is it an engagement? if yes, good for her. If no, then they are different areas and should probably part ways.

Agreed. Re-evaluating is a good and healthy thing, especially when at least one partner is truly unhappy. When I felt I had to do it, I pulled away totally, which obviously meant no nookie, though it can be done to varying degrees. But I think generally needing to re-evaluate comes when the relationship isn''t 100% healthy, whether or not the couple ends up staying together.

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 7/24/2009 5:28:15 PM
Author: purelily
<b> Princess </b> I agree with you, but I also think that it is a good way of re-evaluating the relationship/finding out what he really wants. Is it an engagement? if yes, good for her. If no, then they are different areas and should probably part ways.

Isn't it already pretty apparent he isn't ready for engagement? If he were they'd already be engaged, no hostage situation necessary. A good way of reevaluating would be to sit down as a couple and discuss, and if they aren't capable of this they are already in a lot of trouble, sex or no sex.