younger = higher expectations?

[JenStone]

I remember reading an article last week about how a surprisingly high percentage of teenagers have unrealistic expectations regarding their financial future. (I think a large portion said they expect to be making $100k+ right out of college

)

Reading this made me think back to the last time I visited my alma mater and hung out with friends who are still in school (although I''m almost 27, I have younger friends who are undergrads). The question of when my boyfriend would propose came up, and then we all started talking about e-rings. I was shocked to hear that all these girls wanted to get engaged by the time they''re 30, with diamonds that cost AT LEAST $15k. That was the minimum - the majority of them wanted at least 2 cts, $20k-30k.

I couldn''t get over what they said. I then asked them how much they expected to be making when they graduate and how much they expect their future fiances to be making. All answers were in the six-figure range.

When I discussed this with my boyfriend, he chuckled and said, "Wait until they graduate and start working. They''re in for a big surprise."

What do you think? Have you noticed this trend among younger people too?

 

[Skippy123]

Yes, I seen it. I have some young friends and they buy buy buy. They buy houses and new cars and then you see this article and it all makes sense (not just in CA but all over the US).
http://www.dqnews.com/RRFor1006.shtm

 

[sumbride]

totally!

but it''s not just young people. When I was graduating and looking for my first job (this was just 8 years ago) my mom said that I should expect to make in my first year what it cost me to go to college... i.e. $85k. HA. My entry-level in a non-profit got me about 1/4 of that! I don''t know what planet she was on, but I wish she''d been MY HR rep!

It takes a while to be making anything significant and anyone who expects to land 6 figures right out of college needs to get a reality check... unless they are Chelsea Clinton, who of course DID pull that off. But I don''t think it''s very common!

My 16 year old neice is extremely high maintenance. I think she''s in for a shock once she''s on her own. Of course, that may not be ANYtime soon!

 

[musey]

I''m young, and I haven''t personally experienced that... I was 17 and in high school when my brother landed a job right out of college making $70,000 a year and I remember being incredibly shocked and impressed that he''d be making SO MUCH MONEY. My idea of "so much money" meant making enough to pay rent and buy groceries without having to scramble!

Anyway, I have only met a couple of people who seem to match that high maintenance depiction of young people. I may be hanging in the wrong circles, though

 

[neatfreak]

I personally don''t think I am/was like that. But yes there are MANY MANY younger people who I think DO feel entited to a fancy car, big salaries, and expensive bling!

They''re in for a reality check though, so hopefully they''ll all get it before they end up having to declare bankruptcy.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

A recent article in our local paper, discussed entry level salaries for engineers, geologists, petrophysicists and IT; and I was very surprised to read that b/c of the high demand for these professionals in our area, 6 figure salaries are not unheard of. A recent job fair not only recruited new grads for big $$, yet companies were vying/competing for them in fourth year of University--offering them great incentives and hiring them not yet out of their Co-Op programs!!

cheers--Sharon

 

[divergrrl]

Hah...tell my brothers/stepbrothers this. They are all pissed to be making 25k to 40k a year with college degrees. I think that''s pretty healthy for a first job out of college.

I did read an article that said parents of this latest generation did the kids no favor by overinflating their self esteem ( a response to when parents used to not care about that, now taken too far) and telling them they can do/have anything. So the kids get out and then realize that you aren''t handed a silver platter & they are very depressed/disillusioned. Instead of encouraging them to work hard for great reward, parents are filling these kids heads with what they think their kids *should* be entitled too---just for waking up and getting out of bed.

In Portland, OR, the exception, not the norm is a 6 figure salary. If you look at national incomes hovering around the 30k mark, that tells you what people are making on average.

I''ve worked for a few large telco companies. Telecom companies generally pay very well, however, our entry level admins & marketing folks made half of what we middle management were bringing in. Sure you can hit 6 figures once you make director (and if you work hard & are educated it is most certainly an attainable goal--but that takes YEARS!) but unless someone has a highly specialized degree in a very in-demand market, I think expecting 100k salaries right out of college is very unrealistic.

I''m not sure what starting salaries for an entry level position are for college grads in NYC, LA, San Fran, Boston, etc....but I think 30k to 40k is more realistic for a grad.

 

[poptart]

I just graduated last month and am looking for a job, so I am facing all of this head on. I didn't notice a trend of people thinking that they were going to be making three figures right out of college, but then again I have very down to earth friends. I am happy if I just have a job that I can take pride in and make enough to live a decent life on our own. It seems like many kids these days (lol), are too pampered and don't understand the way money works. They have been handed far too many things in life to appreciate what they have and then once that support net is gone they don't know how to handle their money and can't understand where it is all going. This problem is the main trend that I have seen in people my age.

*M*

 

[decodelighted]

It''s funny you bring this up. I was killing time on Craigslist the other day and went to the always-entertaining Rants & Raves section -- some twentysomething was complaining that they were "depressed" and then upset no one was sympathetic.

Their post was along the lines of "I did everything *right* ... went to college, paid my dues, took out loans and now I have a boring job and no one wants to promote me after six whole months and i can barely pay my rent and health club membership and i have to drive an old car and my life is just not turning out like its SUPPOSED to. I was lied to" blah blah blah.

People were incredulous. Yet -- I don''t think it''s an uncommon sentiment. They tried to explain what "depression" really is ... not just being upset you can''t buy nice things.

Oy Vey!!!

 

[ljmorgan]

A lot of it just depends on what field you choose to go into. I went to college for computer science, and my husband went for electrical engineering. We''re fresh out of college with very attractive salaries, an employer to pay for our grad degrees, and no student debt at all. I have a friend who majored in psychology but then decided she didn''t want further education and now she''s working at CompUSA.

 

[Haven]

I think college students or recent grads who believe they will earn six figures right out of college should do some real research into their proposed career fields to GET A GRIP! I was ecstatic to earn a measly 37K in my first job after college--it sounded like millions to me at the time!

You are absolutely right, JenStone--I do a career/budgeting project with my students each year, and many of them expect to make large salaries working historically low-paying jobs (makeup artist, stylist, manicurist, personal shopper, etc.) Their responses are classic when they realize how much it will cost to purchase their 10,000 sq. ft. dream "crib" and all their fancy cars. The good news is that most of them ditch the plans for the McMansion and stick to their guns about pursuing a career they love.

It seems like a lot of parents let their kids ride the gravy train, so to speak, far too long--I grew up with a ton of spoiled upper middle class kids who never had to earn a penny until they were out of college. And some of them STILL had daddy''s credit card even then! I like to say life kicked them in the arse once they had to start living it.

 

[Selkie]

Heh...my first job out of college paid $75/week plus housing. Of course, that was an internship for a marine research center, so the fun I had more than made up for the sh**** pay. My second job was as a grad school RA, and my salary shot up to a whopping $14K/yr. But I knew going into science as a career I wasn''t ever going to make the big bucks without getting at least a Masters degree in something.

 

[musey]

I tend to think that that these "times are a-changin" reports are more evidence of our increased communication (internet, television media) and less evidence of times, well, a-changin'. We're hearing about it more because it makes for a good story, not because there is necessarily more of it going on than in any other generation. I'm personally inclined to think that this increase in expectations reflects more a change in society as a whole, rather than the younger generation alone. For better or worse, we are a consumer society.

As for me, I'm more than thrilled if I can make enough money for rent and food... about $15,000/year. That may be a product of working in the entertainment industry

I could be completely off but, as I said in my earlier post, I have witnessed very, very little of this entitlement behavior. I live in the Hollywood Hills and attended one of the most famously "spoiled" universities in the country (USC), so you'd think if anyone would've seen it, I would have!

 

[phoenixgirl]

I agree that many young adults believe they'll have their parents' standard of living upon college graduation. And so many people get into debt because they believe that their $1000/month one bedroom apartment and cell phone and HD cable and internet and nice new financed/leased car are all necessities.

One thing that has changed is our view of college. It's almost like college is the new high school . . . everyone is expected to have a college degree to get almost any job. So with all these college grads competing for jobs, it's hard to have an edge.

I graduated licensed to teach and knew exactly what I would be making, but DH graduated with a liberal arts degree and bounced around from one dead-end (in my opinion) job to another making less than $30k a year. Thankfully he got into financial advising and has a real knack for it and is finally making more than I do, but it was definitely not looking like we'd be this well off three years ago.

I was lucky enough to graduate from college debt-free and with a nest egg, and I was able to have the one bedroom apartment and new car (well, it was new eight years ago -- now it's a dinged-up old faithful) and to buy things or go out if I wanted. But even though our mortgage and association fees were less than what we had each been paying in rent, somehow DH's debts (student loans, car payments) made things really tight, and I was no longer able to buy what I wanted or go out when I wanted. It's only been recently that I've returned to the standard of living I had before getting married. I guess that's why I've bought so many diamonds in the last year.

My dad told me this weekend that I'm the most "sophisticated" member of our family ever (he's from WV and refered to our ancestors as "hillbillies"). Part of it is that my brother and sister are 9 and 7 years older than I and remember a different standard of living . . . all five of us stuffed in one hotel room, driving to vacation (which was really my dad's conferences) instead of flying, eating at Denny's, etc. I remember flying everywhere and eating at nicer restaurants and getting two or three rooms for all of us. So perhaps this is a national phenomenon . . . children of the recently wealthier just don't really know what else life could be like. And parents who spoil their children certainly don't help. We at least had certain rules regarding money, such as if I didn't ask for my allowance on Saturday, I didn't get it, and no whining could change that. And I had to make all the decisions regarding the nest egg (a lot of which was inheritance from my grandparents who had all passed away by the time I was 12) even as a child. Um, yeah, sell this, and um, buy that? Strangely, this responsibility made me very concerned about not messing up my nest egg and I've never decided to just go crazy and spend it on stuff.

 

[zdrastvootya]

Date: 6/18/2007 5:58:08 PM
Author: canuk-gal
HI:

A recent article in our local paper, discussed entry level salaries for engineers, geologists, petrophysicists and IT; and I was very surprised to read that b/c of the high demand for these professionals in our area, 6 figure salaries are not unheard of. A recent job fair not only recruited new grads for big $$, yet companies were vying/competing for them in fourth year of University--offering them great incentives and hiring them not yet out of their Co-Op programs!!

cheers--Sharon

canuk-gal, you''re in Alberta, right?

I can''t help but think that such heavy recruiting creates ego inflation and entitlement-mania that makes these newcomers to the workforce difficult to deal with. But I''m pretty jaded

Z.

 

[VegasAngel]

I agree that a lot of young people have unreal expectations. As far as college goes, what they dont realize is they may get a degree but 1) Do they have any experience in the field they are interested in? What makes them think someone will hire a person with little to no experience right out of college? 2) You may earn a degree in public relations for example, but that doesnt mean YOU are a good fit for a position in that field. I worked in a casino doing room reservations. There were lots of people who had degrees. They were taking phone calls for $15 an/hr. What does that tell you? As for overspending, I see alot of people my age & younger bragging about their BMW- Yeah, the BMW they leased or their parents bought. Real estate is the best investment. I rather see someone put their money into a home rather than an apartment (Money down the drain) or anything else. Of course, they need to put a decent down payment & buy a home in their price range.

 

[zdrastvootya]

Wasn''t there a study that said that the coming generation is going to be the first generation that makes LESS than their parents? Or something like that?

Z.

 

[JenStone]

Date: 6/19/2007 11:45:17 AM
Author: zdrastvootya
Wasn''t there a study that said that the coming generation is going to be the first generation that makes LESS than their parents? Or something like that?


Z.

Yes, I remember reading about that last year.

I should also add that I attended a top-ranked private school where the majority of students come from very wealthy families. Many of the students were spoiled brats (for lack of a better word) who never had to worry about money.

My family is middle class and when I was still in school, my parents gave me $400/month on spending money (this is including money for food) which I thought was a lot. However, I then discovered that my peers were receiving $1,000+/month on spending money - I even knew one who received $5,000 every month! (What do you do with all that money?) In addition to that, they also carried around credit cards paid by their parents.

After graduation, many were stunned to find out that they couldn''t find high-paying jobs. Their parents stepped in once again, buying them cars or even apartments for their graduation presents.

I can''t say I never get annoyed at my friends who never have to pay rent...but that''s another story.

I''m not saying all my peers from college are like this. There are those who are from very wealthy, established families who are independent and become successful all by themselves. However, the vast majority whose parents coddled them get used to a certain lifestyle and struggle to maintain it.

 

[canuk-gal]

Date: 6/19/2007 11:25:49 AM
Author: zdrastvootya

Date: 6/18/2007 5:58:08 PM
Author: canuk-gal
HI:

A recent article in our local paper, discussed entry level salaries for engineers, geologists, petrophysicists and IT; and I was very surprised to read that b/c of the high demand for these professionals in our area, 6 figure salaries are not unheard of. A recent job fair not only recruited new grads for big $$, yet companies were vying/competing for them in fourth year of University--offering them great incentives and hiring them not yet out of their Co-Op programs!!

cheers--Sharon

canuk-gal, you''re in Alberta, right?

Yup.

I can''t help but think that such heavy recruiting creates ego inflation and entitlement-mania that makes these newcomers to the workforce difficult to deal with. But I''m pretty jaded

OH, Z, what a discussion we could have; b/c, you know, I am a little jaded too

cheers--Sharon
Z.

 

[princesss]

You mean I won''t make $100k right out of the door?

Honestly, I think this is all dead-on. I''m going into my senior year and am amazed at the way my friends look at the job market. Or, excuse me, don''t look at it. I know I''m going to have to sell my degree really hard (English/Anthropology major with what amounts to a minor in Spanish), and I''ve been practicing, haha. I''m currently doing an internship outside of the US but with a major company, so who knows what that will equal in term of work experience points? Quite frankly if I work a job where I''m getting a salary instead of a wage, and making enough to pay all my bills without a credit card (ooooooh, I hate those things) and can occasionally have some cheap fun (dinner once a month, the occasional movie, buying a season of something on DVD sometimes, you get the picture) I''ll be thrilled.

Part of the thing about high expectations, though, is sometimes you can meet them if you''re willing to work at it. I know it''ll take me years before I make 6 figures...but I''m determined to do it. I''m determined to find a career in a field I enjoy...honestly, I''d love to find something that I want to think about outside of the office, and am passionate about. I''m a demanding perfectionist when it comes to what I do, and I want to find something I love.

That said, I think that I put a lot more thought into what''s going to happen in the next year than most people I know. I am the type to practice interviewing in front of a video camera so I can critique myself, to start reviewing my resume now, and to start researching companies and areas to work in/live in. I don''t think I know a single other person that''s doing that, and I know plenty that expect to be handed a job contract with their diploma.

*sigh* I have so much to do in the next year. I''m starting to get a little freaked out. But my goal is to be able to put where I''ll be working in my graduation announcement that I send to my family, and right now if I can meet that then I''ll be thrilled.

 

[DivaDiamond007]

I''ve seen a lot of entitlement with some of the people that I went to college with. A friend of mine married a rich guy right out of college and they went out and bought a huge house (their first). They have a lot of debt and now a 1 year old. She insisted on a huge e-ring (and got it) and they both drive new cars. Their house is beautiful, but in a shaky neighborhood and it''s now worth much less than what they owe on it. I sort of feel bad for them, but they got themselves into the hole their in.

My SIL is similar. She''s a lawyer and basically went to law school because she thought that she''d be making 100K+ right out of school - working in public interest law. I admire her for wanting to help people, but the salary she wants is nowhere near what''s she''s actually getting paid (I make more than her). She''s getting married soon and she and her FI have a newer house (about 2 years old). She says that they''re only going to live there for 5 years and then move into a "better" house. Geez, I''d like to have their house as is but can''t. It really makes me sick sometimes.

I started my job right out of college and had experience in my field prior to even going to college so I didn''t have a difficult time finding someone to hire me and pay me a fair wage. Things just sort of fell into place for me. My husband hasn''t been as lucky, but that''s how it goes. The only debt we have is student loans and my car payment. We''ve had to work and save for every single thing we have. We''re building our lives slowly - which has worked so far.

 

[partgypsy]

I can''t say all kids are like this but my nephew is trending this way and don''t know what he''s thinking.
There are some jobs you can get right out of college that pay big money (banking, consulting) but they are high pressure/high hour jobs in specialized fields. The vast majority do not.

It''s funny when I was in college I was given by my parents $500-600 a SEMESTER to pay for my expenses (books, rent, food, everything but tuition). Sometimes my textbooks alone cost $250. I don''t think they had a clue what things really cost. Somehow that (and picking up part time jobs) was able to make it work. And once I graduated, no financial help. It was not easy, but in retrospect I think I was more prepared for the harsh reality of supporting oneself than than many fellow students who got handouts from their parents. When I went to graduate school pretty much everyone I knew was being helped by their parents. One fellow graduate student even made fun of my worn shoes at some department event, like I chose to wear scuffed and worn shoes. I just shrugged and said nothing.
I really really hope that I can raise my two children so that they will know the value of money.

 

[erica k]

i''m 27, in the 4th year of graduate school, married with a condo, and have extremely expensive tastes, all on a $20,000 stipend. i have about 3 years left before i finish my dissertation, and then it''s on to the job market, where i''ll make about $45,000 for the next 5 years. if i receive tenure before the age of 40, i''ll hopefully be making around $75-90,000. my expectations are pretty low about my financial future, but at least i''ll have a job that i love where i go on sabbatical every three years and don''t have to work during the summers!

so,
NO, i don''t have unrealistic expectations about my financial future. i know for a fact that i will never make 6 figures. my husband and i will always be a dual income family, and even then, we''ll never top $200,000 (that''s academia, generally non-lucrative). we''re going to have to be extremely frugal, especially if we want to have children in the near future.

i do, however, live beyond my means. i spend too much time on the internet ogling expensive modern design objects and designer clothing. every once in a while i buy things i shouldn''t. ok, that''s not true, pretty often i buy things i know i can''t pay off immediately. why would i do something so irrational when i know i won''t be making much money in the future? maybe knowing that the pay-off for all my years of hard work at school won''t be monetary is frustrating me. i admit, i sometimes wish my husband would do something more lucrative (he''s super smart at computer programming and majored in physics, but hates doing that sort of thing), but hopefully our quality of living will make up for our less than extravagant incomes. my top goal for the next 3 years is to become debt-free (except for the mortgage).

looking at all the pretty diamonds on pricescope was pretty damaging to my self-esteem for a couple of months. i became obsessed with the idea that i deserved an upgrade RIGHT NOW. i''ve slowly learned to have some perspective on upgrades/trade-ins. my favorite pricescope threads are 10-20 year upgrade stories where the upgrade is 1.0-1.5 cts. i always feel like those new diamonds are the product of richly-lived lives where hard-earned money went to other things like children, homes, educations, and vacations. not that there''s anything wrong with upgrading to a big rock early in your marriages! if you can afford it, and it sounds like most pricescopers can, why not! i''ve just been having a hard time accepting that i can''t have it ALL. we all make choices, and i made mine. most days i''m fine with it, but other days i wish i could have it both ways. maybe that''s a part of this youth entitlement thing. i think we all need to learn to be more patient.

oh, and the internet hasn''t helped with this whole instant-gratification-thing.

 

[phoenixgirl]

I know what you mean about the instant pay-off.

I mentioned earlier how I had a pretty good standard of living straight out of school . . . no, I wasn''t breaking records with my teacher''s salary, but with a nest egg and no debt, I was able to have whatever I wanted within reason. Then DH and his debt and different spending habits came along.

Now things are not tight, and I''m like, thank God, I don''t have to spend my clothes money on the groceries anymore! So I''ve been buying, buying, buying, and I always thought I was the opposite of materialistic . . . clothes are just functional, etc. But no, I want cute new clothes and new shoes and this and that. Weird. I''m an INTJ so I''m not sure what side of me this is.

So now DH is the one who wants us to pare back and put money into savings and I''m like, excuse me, who are you? But it''s good, right? I guess a good marriage is one in which you balance each other out in the midst of whatever your current reality is.

 

[divergrrl]

Date: 6/20/2007 11:09:03 PM
Author: erica k

NO, i don''t have unrealistic expectations about my financial future. i know for a fact that i will never make 6 figures. my husband and i will always be a dual income family, and even then, we''ll never top $200,000 (that''s academia, generally non-lucrative). we''re going to have to be extremely frugal, especially if we want to have children in the near future.

Girl...you can so have a family and be a stay at home mom for half that! I know a TON of families who do it on less. HECK I do it!!!

I used to make as much as my DH...( we might be considered middle class verging on upper middle class) and I quit when I became preggers. Yup...we HALVED our household income.

We made ourselves a promise when I got laid off right before our wedding (total wake up call!)...that we''d always be able to float our lifestyle on one income just in case one of us became disabled, unemployed, or had this strong urge to stay home with kids for a few years. It was a valuable lesson to learn.

Unless you are buying homes in NYC, LA, SanFran, or other similarly over inflated real estate markets, you don''t NEED 200k to live on. The average American only makes 30k....Average home prices in Portland, OR are just under 300k. Only 6% of Americans make 100k or more.

This is kind of that "reality" check regarding the high expectations that the original poster was alluding to. The difference between want and need is where most people get tripped up.

I think when you also realize that stuff does not equal happiness, you are able to let go of some of the unrealistic expectations. Its usually just a substitute for some other emotional need. Psych 101 with a touch of Buddism for ya. LOL.

 

[erica k]

i know what you mean about marriages as balancing each other out. my husband was extremely frugal when i met him. i started buying him all sorts of nice outfits. i knew i had created a monster when he decided to buy a $130 button down shirt for his wedding suit!

now i''m the one freaking out and trying to be as frugal as possible. i think my husband feels bad about it because he keeps telling me he can buy things for me. all i can say is, with what money? i know exactly how much money he has (loans), and i''m the only one with real no-strings-attached money (grants and fellowships), so there''s no way he''s going to spend OUR money when we''re trying to pay off bills. oh how the tables have turned! it''ll all work out in the end, i hope.

 

[divergrrl]

Here, I found some stats on average household incomes in the US. These kids who think they''ll make 100k each out of college are seriously deluded. Only 17% of HOUSEHOLDS (that means 2 income earners working) make 100k or more. That means you have two folks making 30k-ish to 50k-ish apiece.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States

Again..average "household" income...meaning total income per household..generally 2 income earners.
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/income04/statemhi.html


Here is some tax info on US percentages of incomes by tax returns filed: (AGI = adjusted gross income)

Including all tax returns that had a positive AGI, those taxpayers with an AGI of $137,056 or more in 2004 constituted the nation’s top 5 percent of earners. To break into the top 1 percent, a tax return had to have an AGI of $328,049 or more. These numbers are up significantly from 2003 when the equivalent thresholds were $130,080 and $295,495. Top incomes in 2004 have also finally surpassed the peak they reached in 2000. At the height of the boom and bubble, $313,469 was the threshold to break into the top 1 percent.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

Hate to be the Debbie Downer, but all these kids have to do is look at housing prices, annual incomes per household (or per capita 33k on avg.) and realize that, yes you do make more money with a bachelor''s degree (on average 45k) and yet more with a Masters or Doctorate, but its a slim percentage & not just handed out with your degree at the graduation ceremony.

As my mom would say

"oh gimme a break".

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 6/21/2007 12:55:12 AM
Author: divergrrl

Girl...you can so have a family and be a stay at home mom for half that! I know a TON of families who do it on less. HECK I do it!!!

I used to make as much as my DH...( we might be considered middle class verging on upper middle class) and I quit when I became preggers. Yup...we HALVED our household income.

We made ourselves a promise when I got laid off right before our wedding (total wake up call!)...that we'd always be able to float our lifestyle on one income just in case one of us became disabled, unemployed, or had this strong urge to stay home with kids for a few years. It was a valuable lesson to learn.

Hubby and I did this. We bought a house we were comfortable in on 1 income. I think that is why so many people lose their homes and it is sad. Hubby and I teach a class in family finance and we are always pushing that strategy.

It is nice to hear others do that!

 

[zdrastvootya]

Date: 6/21/2007 1:43:26 PM
Author: Skippy123

Date: 6/21/2007 12:55:12 AM
Author: divergrrl

Girl...you can so have a family and be a stay at home mom for half that! I know a TON of families who do it on less. HECK I do it!!!

I used to make as much as my DH...( we might be considered middle class verging on upper middle class) and I quit when I became preggers. Yup...we HALVED our household income.

We made ourselves a promise when I got laid off right before our wedding (total wake up call!)...that we''d always be able to float our lifestyle on one income just in case one of us became disabled, unemployed, or had this strong urge to stay home with kids for a few years. It was a valuable lesson to learn.

Hubby and I did this. We bought a house we were comfortable in on 1 income. I think that is why so many people lose their homes and it is sad. Hubby and I teach a class in family finance and we are always pushing that strategy.

It is nice to hear others do that!

Former co-worker advised the same. His wife decided she wanted to stop working when their son was born. (I''m hoping to keep my downtown condo. [90% paid off], rent it out, and still buy a 1 income house. Not sure whether this is possible.)

Thanks to poster who put up income statistics. I was explaining to Mrs. Z that our combined income of 100k put us well above the average. She was thinking we won''t be able to afford a house (they''re pretty expensive in Toronto), but I''m sure lots of people own houses who don''t make this much. Houses are pretty expensive in Toronto (but less than some big U.S. cities.)

Z.




Z.

 

[erica k]

Date: 6/21/2007 12:55:12 AM
Author: divergrrl

Date: 6/20/2007 11:09:03 PM

Author: erica k



NO, i don''t have unrealistic expectations about my financial future. i know for a fact that i will never make 6 figures. my husband and i will always be a dual income family, and even then, we''ll never top $200,000 (that''s academia, generally non-lucrative). we''re going to have to be extremely frugal, especially if we want to have children in the near future.

Girl...you can so have a family and be a stay at home mom for half that! I know a TON of families who do it on less. HECK I do it!!!


--I have thought about this for a long time and do not want to be a SAHM. Fortunately, the road to academia is fairly flexible, so I can have children right before or after I finish my PhD, do a post-doctoral for a year, and then start looking for a job. My husband and I will have to switch off on baby-duty, depending on our research schedules, so it''ll be very similar to a stay-at-home situation, but we''ll both be ''working''.


We made ourselves a promise when I got laid off right before our wedding (total wake up call!)...that we''d always be able to float our lifestyle on one income just in case one of us became disabled, unemployed, or had this strong urge to stay home with kids for a few years. It was a valuable lesson to learn.


--I think this is a really great strategy to have. I wish more people could do the same.


Unless you are buying homes in NYC, LA, SanFran, or other similarly over inflated real estate markets, you don''t NEED 200k to live on. The average American only makes 30k....Average home prices in Portland, OR are just under 300k. Only 6% of Americans make 100k or more.

--I live in Cambridge, Massachusetts. It certainly isn''t NYC, but it''s hardly cheap. The average price of a single family house here is $700,000. Condos are more affordable, and that''s what I have for now. Sure, I didn''t have to go to this school, but it was the only one that accepted me!!

I wouldn''t be so worried about money if I didn''t live in such an expensive town. I keep threatening my husband that I''ll rent out the condo and move into a 6 bedroom house where I only have to pay $400/month for a small room. A co-op would be great, actually, except there are all those people living with you. Hmmm...


This is kind of that ''reality'' check regarding the high expectations that the original poster was alluding to. The difference between want and need is where most people get tripped up.


--I love being a student, but I''ll be pretty ecstatic when I''m making $45,000 in 5-6 years! Hopefully I''ll be living somewhere cheaper, but my husband is hoping to start a PhD. at our same school (I hate the winters here!). If I''m making that much by then, I think we''ll be able to live fairly comfortably. But it would be great to save money for our kids, buy a new car (ours is 10 years old), get a dog, and travel more often (all long-term plans/wants-needs). So, although I''m looking forward to the day when our combined incomes are closer to $200,000 (who wouldn''t?), we''ll make do with whatever we have.


I think when you also realize that stuff does not equal happiness, you are able to let go of some of the unrealistic expectations. Its usually just a substitute for some other emotional need. Psych 101 with a touch of Buddism for ya. LOL.

--I agree! But creating a beautiful environment (which doesn''t have to be expensive, but often can be) is absolutely critical to my mental well-being and productivity. I''ve spent more money than I should have in the past on furnishings, but I''m learning to focus on more diy or thrift store options (reduce, reuse, recycle, always a good thing). Sure, lots of people make do on a LOT less, but there are so many variables and so many reasons for how we live that need to be considered. We all make personal choices and try to live our lives according to what we think is best for our personalities, wants, and needs. Many of my urbanite friends would rather be poor and in debt than live in a cheaper, smaller town. Also, working like crazy to obtain higher incomes is completely worth it if they can live in SF or NYC. Other people would say that my friends are being irresponsible and snobs. I think the more diversity there is in living conditions (urban, suburban, exurban, rural), the more interesting life will be for everyone. I believe in balancing wants and needs, recognizing when wants are a cover for something more serious, and striving to be fiscally sound within reasonable limits (we all have our little weaknesses/wants). I''m sure most pricescopers would agree, considering the number of upgrades and pieces of jewelry are acquired (commendably not on credit cards!).