$1,000 - $150,000 Sapphire engagement ring

[Gypsy]

Except for Leon''s three and five stone stone settings. I personally prefer 23rd Street Jeweler''s settings. It''s worth a call to see if they would set a stone purchased elsewhere IMO. While we refer a lot of people to Leon, there are other options out there, and nice ones at that.

 

[ER_Doc_Mike]

Date: 11/1/2007 5:08:36 PM
Author: Pandora II
If you are going to NYC - try and get an appointment with Leon Mege ( www.artofplatinum.com).

I now have an appointment with Leon on my Thursday NYC adventure. Thank you for this!

 

[elmo]

Date: 11/2/2007 11:04:48 AM
Author: ER_Doc_Mike
I now have an appointment with Leon on my Thursday NYC adventure. Thank you for this!

That's who I'd have build a ring for me, especially since you said you're interested in "diamonds embedded in the ring" (pave/micropave). When you're there ask Leon if he's working on any nice unheated blue sapphire pieces.

Did you say Kashmir? I think this one's your stone, Mike: Pala 3.3ct Kashmir cushion.

You're stressing value in addition to quality though. To me, value translates to an unwillingness to pay a big premium for origin for similar quality. Stick with Sri Lanka or Madagascar stones unless you change your mind about that.

Have you read the following?

Dick Huges on Sapphire Connoisseurship

Richard Wise on Blue Sapphire (use the arrows at the bottom to navigate)

Also I didn't see where you said if it has to be unheated? For me the answer was yes, but most sapphires are heated to some extent. You'll pay more (think 30% more or less) for similar quality for unheated, and finding something specific can be difficult. Finding unheated with great color and clarity that also isn't a bit windowed or deep is just about impossible.

For a good size unheated stone, I'd always get a second lab report even if the stone comes with one. In the US, AGL and AGTA are who I'd use.

You said "light blue". The classic gem blue sapphire color is a "medium dark" vivid blue. There's a distinct difference of tone within that medium-dark range, but it's not light blue. When I started out thinking about sapphire a few of years ago, I was mistaking "light" for "vivid". For a great piece, maybe consider a more classic vivid (not dark) blue color. (Think of that 3 carat cushion linked above on the dark side of med-dark, and the 5 carat round linked below on the light side of med-dark).

You said "roundish". It will be harder but not impossible to find nice round stones, and rounds cost more. Here's a nice one (heated though). But to me, the really classic sapphire shape is a rounded-corner, not-too-rectangular cushion. Sort of like the killer 3 carat Kashmir stone above.

If cost isn't a big consideration, I'd go a little larger than some folks have recommended. 10x10 is a great ring size, about 5-7 carats. Believe me, if the ladies here wore one like that for a few weeks it wouldn't seem too big, unless you add a carat or two of side stones in a three-stone ring or a large pave halo, or unless she's a size 3. For value, 4 carats and well cut is a good size since 5 is an important weight threshold that you pay for.

Go look at lots of stones. The stone I ended up choosing may not have been the one I picked a year ago and two years ago. But really fine quality usually stands out once you get your feet wet. It will grab your eyes.

 

[Pandora II]

OMG, elmo that Pala kashmir cushion is to die for. I'll take that over any diamond in Graff's window anyday.

Wow, wow and thrice wow!

 

[Pandora II]

Here it is:

3.30ct of blue perfection...

 

[Pandora II]

.

 

[chrono]

That stone is so beautiful; I could never turn it down no matter the size.

 

[widget]

OMG, be still my heart. That Pala Kashmir looks incredible. I WISH someone in the trade could find out how much they''re asking for it!!

widget

 

[partgypsy]

WOW Unreal

I would love to see that in person!

 

[ER_Doc_Mike]

Date: 11/2/2007 11:52:43 AM
Author: widget

OMG, be still my heart. That Pala Kashmir looks incredible.
widget

Just called Palagems and asked them about it. They are asking $36,000 per carat for it but are open to negotiations.

I do like it, but really would like something in a round cut more.

 

[ER_Doc_Mike]

Date: 11/2/2007 11:19:16 AM
Author: elmo

You''re stressing value in addition to quality though. To me, value translates to an unwillingness to pay a big premium for origin for similar quality. Stick with Sri Lanka or Madagascar stones unless you change your mind about that.

Thank you so much for the links, elmo. I will read them and educate myself.

As for value, I mean value compared to the stone''s peers. For example, if I really really like a Montana sapphire, and the going rate for a Montana sapphire is $100 per carat, I don''t want to pay $500 per carat for it.

But if on the other hand I really like a Kashmir stone, and the going market rate for Kashmirs of that quality is $50,000 per carat, I''m willing to pay that, but not $90,000 per carat.

So by value, I really mean "I''m willing to pay the market price, as determined by prices of similar quality stones from other dealers".

 

[elmo]

That's the full-retail price through their retail shop. Any one of the dealers here can source it. I'd use Gary Dutton, also Wink gets lots of praise. Per carat price is still probably what a best-quality 4 carat Sri Lanka stone runs total. Seriously, it's a good visual benchmark.

Edit to comment about value: that's a good description and objective Mike. What you will find is that colored stone pricing is all over the place, even more so at the high end. Great sapphire is too unique and thinly traded for looking up a price in a list, unlike diamonds. NSC is a good starting point for benchmarks, but I think some of their very best stones are a little higher than what you will have to pay in the end (e.g. really nice 4 carat cushion at $24K, and 7 carat cushion at $46K). But best quality always seems to cost more than you think is should.

 

[Pandora II]

One thing to remember with these kind of stones of this quality is that on the whole they are one of a kind.

The mines in Kashmir haven't produced anything for at least 30 years and most of the best stones were found in the late 1800's/early 1900's.

It's not like a diamond where you can stipulate size, shape, clarity, cut etc and have thousands to choose from.

Rounds are always going to be hard to find, as most sapphires are cushions and ovals, so you will be limiting yourself to a certain extent to what is on offer.

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 11/2/2007 11:42:07 AM
Author: Pandora II

Here it is:

3.30ct of blue perfection...

Wow, that is perfection!!! ER doc, all the info you learn at the NSF and Cherry Picked, and w/Wink will help I am sure. Best wishes! I can't wait to hear about your trip when you return from NYC.

 

[ER_Doc_Mike]

Date: 11/2/2007 11:39:00 AM
Author: Pandora II
OMG, elmo that Pala kashmir cushion is to die for. I'll take that over any diamond in Graff's window anyday.

So those of you who have been following this thread know that I am scheduled to meet with Richard at Cherry Picked, Stephen at NSC and Leon at www.artofplatinum.com, all in NYC, next Thursday.

I've grown more and more attached to the ring with the flower patterns at 23rd Street Jewelers, and have now scheduled an appointment to see that setting in California next Saturday.

Because the setting is for a cushion cut, I am now looking at cushion Kashmirs. In particular, I will also visit Palagems in California next Saturday to look at the 3.30 carat Kashmir which is referred to above (picture in the above post).

I am really looking forward to jetsetting round the country looking at blue rocks!

Thanks again for all your input. As you can see, I'm wholeheartedly taking your advice to heart, so I'd be grateful for any more comments anyone could add.

 

[Selkie]

Date: 11/2/2007 4:35:27 PM
Author: ER_Doc_Mike

am really looking forward to jetsetting round the country looking at blue rocks!

Thanks again for all your input. As you can see, I''m wholeheartedly taking your advice to heart, so I''d be grateful for any more comments anyone could add.

I have absolutely nothing helpful to add, but I did want to say what a lucky, lucky man you are to get to check out all those amazing stones in person, and what an even luckier woman your future fiancee is, getting to wear the ring you choose! Have fun!

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 11/2/2007 4:35:27 PM
Author: ER_Doc_Mike

Date: 11/2/2007 11:39:00 AM
Author: Pandora II
OMG, elmo that Pala kashmir cushion is to die for. I'll take that over any diamond in Graff's window anyday.

I've grown more and more attached to the ring with the flower patterns at 23rd Street Jewelers, and have now scheduled an appointment to see that setting in California next Saturday.


I am really looking forward to jetsetting round the country looking at blue rocks!

TAKE ME WITH YOU!!


No?

Okay but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE take a camera and snap some pics of blue rocks and settings.

And have FUN!!! I'm so glad you like the 23rd street jewelers setting. It's a lovely one. Let us know what you think when you see it in person... and if you see any other rings/jewelry that catch your eye ... snap a photo while at 23rd street (or anywhere) cause we'd love to see!!!

I can't wait to hear what you decide on, and eventually, to see the final product!

 

[ER_Doc_Mike]

Date: 11/2/2007 5:03:59 PM
Author: Gypsy

TAKE ME WITH YOU!!


No?

Okay but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE take a camera and snap some pics of blue rocks and settings.

A camera will definitely be traveling with me!

 

[colormyworld]

Most gem dealers grade the color quality of gemstones using a small table top fluorescent light. They are pretty much standard equipment. I suggest taking digital photos of each stone under as close to identical conditions.( Distance away,external lighting ect). This way you will be able to compare stones from differnt vendors in a more or less side by side comparsion. Just make sure the camera settings are the same each time.

ETA Bring your own background.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 11/2/2007 5:21:14 PM
Author: ER_Doc_Mike

Date: 11/2/2007 5:03:59 PM
Author: Gypsy

TAKE ME WITH YOU!!


No?

Okay but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE take a camera and snap some pics of blue rocks and settings.

A camera will definitely be traveling with me!

WHEW! Can''t wait for the photos!

 

[ER_Doc_Mike]

Date: 11/2/2007 4:50:57 PM
Author: Selkie

I have absolutely nothing helpful to add, but I did want to say what a lucky, lucky man you are to get to check out all those amazing stones in person, and what an even luckier woman your future fiancee is, getting to wear the ring you choose! Have fun!

I am a lucky lucky man to have found such a fine specimen of a woman who (hopefully) wants to spend her life with me.

 

[surfgirl]

Mike, I know you''ve mentioned that YOU like the rounds, but do you know for sure what your GF loves? I''m just asking since it''s a large investment and she is the one who has to wear the ring...Does SHE love sapphires? Rounds? I''m just curious.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Wow, I was thinking the same thing...I want to go, too!!!!

Truly, I would not pay for a Kashmir stone. No way. I think a 3-4 carat sapphire would be fabulous, but get the best Burma or Ceylon stone you can find, and it will be less than the price for one carat of Kashmir. Pala probably has many for you to look at and I'd still call RW Wise who wrote a book on gemstones, Secrets of the Gem Trade (I think).

One more thought....I like the light blue sapphires in the 23rd St. settings MUCH better. I'd just look at their rings as they are. I adore them but don't think they all look very much like engagement rings, though.

Okay, one more...I'd never get a round sapphire unless I was making a three stone ring with round stones. I think a cushion sapphire is the most desirable shape.

 

[Pandora II]

Just remember - if you don''t come back with photos...

Well, we''ll be recommending some of the vendors on THIS THREAD

I am soooo jealous, I wanna go to Palagems >

 

[Kaleigh]

Another vote to consider a cushion cut sapphire. Can''t wait to see what you decide, you are definitely going to the best vendors out there. And looking forward to lots of PICS!!!

 

[elmo]

Date: 11/2/2007 4:35:27 PM
Author: ER_Doc_Mike
I am really looking forward to jetsetting round the country looking at blue rocks!

Cool! I hope all the fires are out when you're in California. Take a look on the Pala website how close they were to everything. Unless it's changed in the last few years, the diamond-friendly jewelry store lighting up front makes just about any blue sapphire look not so good, but the open area where the business offices are with natural daylight may be where you want to seriously compare stones. Don't just look at the Kashmir...Pala is one of the country's premier gem dealers and has several stones you might like. Also if you use the search engine on their website and see one you might particularly want to see, let them know in advance in case it's out on memo so there's a chance it can be brought back in. One I'd particularly like to see is a 7.13 Sri Lanka cushion with no photo that wasn't available when I bought my stone. They call it a "fantastic piece" and I expect it costs a lot less than the 3.30.

 

[ER_Doc_Mike]

Date: 11/2/2007 6:01:30 PM
Author: surfgirl
Mike, I know you''ve mentioned that YOU like the rounds, but do you know for sure what your GF loves? I''m just asking since it''s a large investment and she is the one who has to wear the ring...Does SHE love sapphires? Rounds? I''m just curious.

Hi, surfgirl. We''ve not talked that much about rings. She doesn''t wear rings in the course of her everyday life, and I want to surprise her as much as possible.

In the single brief conversation we''ve had about rings, sapphires were mentioned, but that''s it. So I''m going with my tastes here almost exclusively, and hoping she''ll like it.

Actually, I know she''ll like it even if I get her a $15 ring from Walmart; simply by virtue of its coming from me.

But there is one important practical point which this brings up: I am going to have to guess at her ring size. I''ve discussed this with 23rd Street Jewelers, and they suggested to get a ring without diamonds going all the way around, e.g. the one I like , so that it can be adjusted if necessary.

 

[ER_Doc_Mike]

Date: 11/2/2007 8:22:50 PM
Author: elmo

Take a look on the Pala website how close they were to everything.

I will certainly ask to see other gems. I have to pick some out in advance and give him a bit of notice, since I''m planning on visiting on a Saturday, and he is only normally open Monday thru Friday.

 

[ER_Doc_Mike]

Date: 11/2/2007 5:22:10 PM
Author: colormyworld
Most gem dealers grade the color quality of gemstones using a small table top fluorescent light. They are pretty much standard equipment. I suggest taking digital photos of each stone under as close to identical conditions.( Distance away,external lighting ect). This way you will be able to compare stones from differnt vendors in a more or less side by side comparsion. Just make sure the camera settings are the same each time.


ETA Bring your own background.

Thank you for this. I will certainly bear your advice in mind.

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 11/2/2007 8:40:33 PM
Author: ER_Doc_Mike


Hi, surfgirl. We've not talked that much about rings. She doesn't wear rings in the course of her everyday life, and I want to surprise her as much as possible.

In the single brief conversation we've had about rings, sapphires were mentioned, but that's it. So I'm going with my tastes here almost exclusively, and hoping she'll like it.

Actually, I know she'll like it even if I get her a $15 ring from Walmart; simply by virtue of its coming from me.

But there is one important practical point which this brings up: I am going to have to guess at her ring size. I've discussed this with 23rd Street Jewelers, and they suggested to get a ring without diamonds going all the way around, e.g. the one I like , so that it can be adjusted if necessary.

I agree; you are putting so much love into this ring and that that is the important thing. Sapphires are gorgeous!!!

I think either Leon or 23 street making the setting will be incredibly lovely! Yes, please don't forget to post pics of your trip. I want to go too (I think most of us lady would want to go for fun to see all those amazing stones)!!

How exciting to see all of Pala's inventory