2.69ct G VVS2 worries - feather,natural, AGS color & clarity

[John P]

Re: 2.69ct G VVS2 worries - feather,natural, AGS color & cla

For a diamond of this size and price point, a GIA cert is essential. An AGS cert in this circumstance does this buyer a disservice. For what he's paying for this particular diamond, he shouldn't even have to ask for a GIA cert. Should the buyer ever go to sell this stone, any savvy trader will diminish the value of the stone based solely on an AGS cert, and insist on a recertification by GIA. Perhaps in time GIA will fall from its stature, but for now, it is the preferred lab most recognized anywhere in the world.

The last sentence is true, and especially applicable to diamond-dealers who operate in the global market. Whether it's applicable to an end-wearer depends on circumstance and values. Should I want to buy and resell a 5.00ct D FL diamond on the world-stage I agree with the above. "Resell" is the operative word, however.

We've just delivered our third 2.00+ D IF custom-cut diamond in recent months. The choice of lab has been AGSL. Some of this had to do with the value placed on a branded item - which matters for insurance - but it was also according to focus on the cut-quality pedigree as much as the D IF collection-category.

 

[Mikla]

Re: 2.69ct G VVS2 worries - feather,natural, AGS color & cla

Thanks, John, for your informative posts! But most of all, I had to laugh when you said, "Beg pardon m'lord…please forgive me…but are you certain?.-“ when requesting a recheck by the GIA. Hilarious!!!

 

[SirGuy]

Re: 2.69ct G VVS2 worries - feather,natural, AGS color & cla

Great posts, John; very informative.

 

[bqnbqn]

Re: 2.69ct G VVS2 worries - feather,natural, AGS color & cla

I have asked the vendor's gemologist to examine the diamond and give me an assessment on color, where it stands on the G range. Also asked about the feather and natural. This is the reply I got from their sales department:

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Thank you for your patience while waiting for the gemologist inspection of diamond (SKU withheld). I’m happy to inform you that this diamond has excellent fire, brilliance, an scintillation, which balances nicely. It's completely eye clean, and even under a loupe, you won't see the natural. As expected, its feather reaches the surface, but it's tiny, not visible, and doesn't pose any durability concerns. Lastly, they said it has a true "G" color, and that if you send it to GIA, they would give it a "G" color grade.
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With VVS2 clarify, of course, no inclusions should be spotted under 10x so no surprise there. What do you think about the feather? Do feathers typically extend to the surface? I have seen some postings where folks were warning against feathers that extend to the surface with respect to durability but this is a VVS2 stone.

How about the natural near the girdle? Of all inclusions, how severe are naturals?

Here is the AGS report again for your examination:

http://www.agslab.com/pdf_sync_reports/104071002017-PLDQR.PDF

I do have 60 days to return the diamond. Hopefully, it will take less than that to get graded by GIA. Clarity within my budget is very important to me. This VVS2 stone has only one tiny feather on the crown face whereas I've seen more inclusions on the crown face with other VVS2 stones. I wonder if GIA will come back with a VVS1 grading If G color still holds while clarity improves to VVS1, it would be a welcomed surprise. Am I the only one who thinks $48,000 (minus 1.5% when wiring) is a great deal here? I can't seem to find a comparable one online for this price.

 

[Lorelei]

Re: 2.69ct G VVS2 worries - feather,natural, AGS color & cla

I have asked the vendor's gemologist to examine the diamond and give me an assessment on color, where it stands on the G range. Also asked about the feather and natural. This is the reply I got from their sales department:

-------------------------
Thank you for your patience while waiting for the gemologist inspection of diamond (SKU withheld). I’m happy to inform you that this diamond has excellent fire, brilliance, an scintillation, which balances nicely. It's completely eye clean, and even under a loupe, you won't see the natural. As expected, its feather reaches the surface, but it's tiny, not visible, and doesn't pose any durability concerns. Lastly, they said it has a true "G" color, and that if you send it to GIA, they would give it a "G" color grade.
-------------------------

With VVS2 clarify, of course, no inclusions should be spotted under 10x so no surprise there. What do you think about the feather? Do feathers typically extend to the surface? I have seen some postings where folks were warning against feathers that extend to the surface with respect to durability but this is a VVS2 stone. With VVS2 there should not be any kind of durability concerns at all so I wouldn't worry too much there. Diamonds aren't indestructible and a good whack in the wrong place can cause damage or loss, so the best thing to do is to get insurance and try not to worry about it, even VVS1 or IF can get damaged.

How about the natural near the girdle? Of all inclusions, how severe are naturals? Naturals aren't a concern to me, they are a little piece of the original diamond ' skin' if you will that is left unpolished in order to hit a certain weight, this shouldn't be an issue.

Here is the AGS report again for your examination:

http://www.agslab.com/pdf_sync_reports/104071002017-PLDQR.PDF

I do have 60 days to return the diamond. Hopefully, it will take less than that to get graded by GIA. Clarity within my budget is very important to me. This VVS2 stone has only one tiny feather on the crown face whereas I've seen more inclusions on the crown face with other VVS2 stones. I wonder if GIA will come back with a VVS1 grading If G color still holds while clarity improves to VVS1, it would be a welcomed surprise. Am I the only one who thinks $48,000 (minus 1.5% when wiring) is a great deal here? I can't seem to find a comparable one online for this price.

That you prefer high clarity is absolutely fine, this stone could definitely be suitable for your purposes! The price is reasonable and finding a large diamond with very high clarity, a superb cut and near colourless can take a little time depending on what's available, I think this stone is definitely well worth purchase consideration.

 

[starryeyed]

Re: 2.69ct G VVS2 worries - feather,natural, AGS color & cla

If G color still holds while clarity improves to VVS1, it would be a welcomed surprise. Am I the only one who thinks $48,000 (minus 1.5% when wiring) is a great deal here? I can't seem to find a comparable one online for this price.

I was your second response and I was all ready to see the setting days ago! Looks like a nice diamond at a fair price.

 

[denverappraiser]

Re: 2.69ct G VVS2 worries - feather,natural, AGS color & cla

The trade is a huge player in this perception of labs issue, and perception tends to become reality.

Imagine a lab. We’ll call them XYZ. They are dead on to GIA 50% of the time, and the other 50% are evenly divided between too high and too low. Of the ones that are ‘off’, 90% of those are by one grade only.

For starters, that’s a darned good lab, right? On average they’re perfect. 95% of the time they’re within the ‘accepted’ grading variations. That’s as good a record as GIA themselves, probably better. Woo hoo XYZ!

What happens when that hits the market?

100% of the ones graded ‘too harsh’ go straight to the shredder and the stone gets resubmitted somewhere else. That was a waste of grading fees.

The ones that are ‘right’ get either appealed or shredded depending on the details of the actual stone. An XYZ that exactly matches a GIA is of no use after all. Appeals at any lab are always intended to improve a grade, never the other way and let’s say 20% of them actually work and they get their grade bump. That too is a fairly good record, probably as good as GIA themselves. The ones that don’t make it get the shredder.

So where are we now? 100% of the XYZ stones in the marketplace are wrong, on average by about a grade and a half. That’s a dreadful record! Their effective cost is about triple because of all of that shredding. That may be ok, especially if they’re reasonable to start with. We’ll come back to that. Single grade variations are worth hundreds to thousands of dollars after all. Notice that I didn’t change the lab grading procedures with this at all. They’re still as good as ever.

Now the lab’s in a pickle. Their reputation is trashed, and their work product is being discounted in the market. Business is bad because, realistically, they’re a little expensive, and there aren’t that many home runs to inspire the dealers to want to play. There’s PLENTY of other ‘off brand’ labs out there for people shopping the clarity/color grade game. So they tweak the grading standards. Just a scoch. Give the benefit of the doubt to the client. Remain dead on with 50% but on the others, 90% become too high with 20% of those by more than a single grade instead of 10%. The scale just slid by about a quarter of a grade but the cost to the dealer dropped by 1/2 and the home run ratio quadrupled! There is serious money flowing now.

This parable isn’t really about AGSL. They certainly are exposed to the pressure but they're pretty good about toeing the line on the grading standards. They're not immune either but it applies equally to EGL, IGI and even to GIA themselves. Results that the dealer doesn’t like can be regraded at a different GIA location and there is no way for a consumer or a jeweler to know. If it comes back different, and sometimes it does, the same game applies. Pick the one that’s highest, lose the other, and appeal the ones where you think you’ve got a shot.

 

[Bailey_Lou]

Re: 2.69ct G VVS2 worries - feather,natural, AGS color & cla

I'm still a newbie in regard to diamonds. However, what about the 62.6 depth and thick girdle? Is this not an issue?

 

[MissGotRocks]

Re: 2.69ct G VVS2 worries - feather,natural, AGS color & cla

I'm still a newbie in regard to diamonds. However, what about the 62.6 depth and thick girdle? Is this not an issue?

The AGS lab report says that the girdle is thin to thick. There is variance there and no in the grand scheme of things it is not a problem. The problem would be if it were a very thin or thin girdle or thick girdle with no variances. The depth is a little deeper than I'd like but not by much. Again, with a stone that large and the angles complimenting one another to receive the highest cut grades from both AGS and GIA, the depth is not a real issue.

 

[John P]

Re: 2.69ct G VVS2 worries - feather,natural, AGS color & cla

Thanks, John, for your informative posts! But most of all, I had to laugh when you said, "Beg pardon m'lord…please forgive me…but are you certain?.-“ when requesting a recheck by the GIA. Hilarious!!!

Great posts, John; very informative.

I'm just seeing these posts - glad the humor on the prior page was picked-up - - - And thanks for the comments, Sir Guy.

 

[John P]

Re: 2.69ct G VVS2 worries - feather,natural, AGS color & cla

I'm still a newbie in regard to diamonds. However, what about the 62.6 depth and thick girdle? Is this not an issue?

The AGS lab report says that the girdle is thin to thick. There is variance there and no in the grand scheme of things it is not a problem. The problem would be if it were a very thin or thin girdle or thick girdle with no variances. The depth is a little deeper than I'd like but not by much. Again, with a stone that large and the angles complimenting one another to receive the highest cut grades from both AGS and GIA, the depth is not a real issue.

I'd add to MGR's comments...

http://www.agslab.com/pdf_sync_reports/104071002017-PLDQR.PDF

If this is the report commented-on I agree 100%, no problem with the girdle. It's actually described as thin to slightly-thick, which is very common. As for the depth; the PA/CA combination and table/girdle do hold a tiny bit of weight. At 8.88mm average spread it will face-up like similarly well-cut 2.60ct rounds. That's not nearly enough to penalize it, as AGSL (or GIA, or another strict lab) would if it faced-up too small for its weight.

 

[Luv-a-Good-Diamond]

Re: 2.69ct G VVS2 worries - feather,natural, AGS color & cla

Hey Everyone! What fascinating info and opinions... and occasionally some spirited debates - (my version of: Oh, no he/she did-N"T). When people ask me what's your opinion about buying a diamond, I tell them the process can be as: simple, complex, or challenging as you want, and that knowledge is power...for whatever. I refer individuals to Pricescope's forum and the diamond vendors' sites.

To the gentlemen looking, please weigh in on all their advices, comments, suggestions. Want to encourage you. When you're ready, follow your gut. Respectfully asking considering the custom, is there anyone's opinion within the bride's family you can ask?. Because when we marry, we marry each other's family, and we want you to started off great! I wish you well! At the end of the day, YOU have to be happy!


I'm still learning, but thank you, Pricescope, for what you've helped [and confused] me with haha! Now I'm able to say sometimes: YOU GOT THAT RIGHT...and then sometimes I have to d.i.s.s.e.c.t.t.h.e.w.h.o.l.e s.e.n.t.e.n.c.e. I am thankful and blessed for two of so many things: my man is still here (living ) six feet above the dirt, and I am thankful for the wonderful upgraded rings we got for our 25 year wedding anniversary. It's so B.E.A.U.T.I.F.U.L.; I'm always getting compliments even from small children.

Pricescope, I'd like to personally thank those who have helped me. (Please inform me how to do special, personal PMs).

Thank again for some of the spirited debates!! I so look for a volume button - HA HA!