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Can I talk about CS of Victor Canera here?
- Thread starter Beatrice09
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If you others don't want to read this saga, stop reading.
Just because you may not value accurate book-keeping, or follow up on details, doesn't mean other consumers don't value those things.
The vendor could have handled the more recent email many many ways that would have been respectful and yet definitively handle and close the matter. VC''s rep chose not to do that.
Just because a vendor does one part of business satisfactorily, or even goes beyond in one servicing transaction, doesn't negate that vendor's duty to tell the truth and to have proper accounting.
It may behoove VC to have reps who are conversant with different customer types and well versed in best practices in responding appropriately.
If VC chooses not to work on OP's VC pieces, they are unilaterally suspending the warranty that accompanied the VC piece(s). If VC is not going to provide the warranty to OP for her VC item(s), then VC is in breach of its own posted policy. I can't believe this is a position VC would take ... and if it is, shame on VC.
https://www.victorcanera.com/service/warranty
Just because you may not value accurate book-keeping, or follow up on details, doesn't mean other consumers don't value those things.
The vendor could have handled the more recent email many many ways that would have been respectful and yet definitively handle and close the matter. VC''s rep chose not to do that.
Just because a vendor does one part of business satisfactorily, or even goes beyond in one servicing transaction, doesn't negate that vendor's duty to tell the truth and to have proper accounting.
It may behoove VC to have reps who are conversant with different customer types and well versed in best practices in responding appropriately.
If VC chooses not to work on OP's VC pieces, they are unilaterally suspending the warranty that accompanied the VC piece(s). If VC is not going to provide the warranty to OP for her VC item(s), then VC is in breach of its own posted policy. I can't believe this is a position VC would take ... and if it is, shame on VC.
https://www.victorcanera.com/service/warranty
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Any jeweler can choose to not to business with someone. Especially since their written policy literally states, "we only ask that clients cover incoming and outgoing shipping charges." Since OP hasn't done that (and has opened this ridiculous thread), I would say that VC is well within their rights to choose to no longer work with OP.
Beatrice09
Rough_Rock
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I have paid in full my own incoming and outgoing shipping charges all the way myself. All charges were billed directly to my credit card.
What in question here is the Fedex pickup fee that didn't occur on VC's end.
What makes me post is NOT the fee but the attitude.
Beatrice09
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If you others don't want to read this saga, stop reading.
Just because you may not value accurate book-keeping, or follow up on details, doesn't mean other consumers don't value those things.
The vendor could have handled the more recent email many many ways that would have been respectful and yet definitively handle and close the matter. VC''s rep chose not to do that.
Just because a vendor does one part of business satisfactorily, or even goes beyond in one servicing transaction, doesn't negate that vendor's duty to tell the truth and to have proper accounting.
It may behoove VC to have reps who are conversant with different customer types and well versed in best practices in responding appropriately.
If VC chooses not to work on OP's VC pieces, they are unilaterally suspending the warranty that accompanied the VC piece(s). If VC is not going to provide the warranty to OP for her VC item(s), then VC is in breach of its own posted policy. I can't believe this is a position VC would take ... and if it is, shame on VC.
https://www.victorcanera.com/service/warranty
@Victor Canera
I still want to work with Victor for more jewels. Our transactions were always smooth. Just wasn't happy about how Nicholas handled this today.
Tarquin
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Yes, I said if he kept sending me invoices through PayPal asking me to pay after he did so already (described in the original post, for $30) I will have to file a police report and with BBB too to stop him from doing sosince he doesn't do that I wouldn't need to. Maybe it's obvious what they would say.
Is voiding warranty legal?
You don't go file a police report over a disputed invoice. At least sane people don't do that. That is actually insane. You respond disputing the invoice. The police will laugh at you if you try this.
Since you haven't sent anything in to be repaired under the warranty you have no idea if they have voided it. I am sure they will cover anything they are required to under the warranty. I doubt they will do anything beyond that.
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Tarquin
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No apology so you threaten to waste police resources?
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I mean this for your own good. If any vendor doesn’t think well of you, do you really want them working on your valuables, even if he felt obligated to? Just trying to be logical here. Why don’t you find a vendor with whom you have a good fit? Wouldn’t that be the most productive step forward?
Chewy_321
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Ummmm, yea. Don't think that's gonna happen...
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Clearly this is false. You were unhappy long before today. You were unhappy enough to threaten to involve the police and BBB, and you started this thread.
NicoleNeedsHelp
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With love (really, I am not judging here), I would grab a glass of wine (or two—heck, get a bottle) and let this go. Try not to let this take away from loving your beautiful ring. Reporting to BBB is cruel, unwarranted and could damage VC’s business. Reporting to the police is a waste of everyone‘s time. Do you love your ring? If you do, focus on that. It sounds like a beautiful ring. This thing needs to deescalate or it will reach a point of no return. Life is too short for this crud.
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Beatrice09
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Honestly I was very upset when he didn't apologize but asked for more money so I said that to stop him from sending more invoices on PayPal.
Posting here was a try for a more sincere apology and I hope to work with Victor in the future.Thanks again for your kind words!
Beatrice09
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I was amazed how far you take away from the point. I love Victor's work but am unhappy about how Nicolas treat me today. Why mix two completely different aspects of a business and walk away from the point that a business rep should just be respectful, professional and kind? Is a sincere sorry so hard? I don't think it's right to treat customers poorly and want to know if they honor the warranty so I let it out here, is that so not understandable? If he just was kind and patient today I would be so happy. Maybe if we were talking face to face things could be a lot different. You can disagree and you're welcomed to keep posting accusing of my fault, is the business rep absolutely so perfect that I couldn't express my hurt feelings in this case? I believe everyone has their own opinion. I would not directly reply to you but if you want to add more I welcome you to do so as well, thanks!
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Wait. I’m in Los Angeles. Is the OP perceiving things fairly? First she sends a ring back for polishing, re-sizing and re-engraving. Then she demands a refund because FedEx didn’t actually pick up the package but instead it was personally hand delivered by a busy manager during COVID shutdown in DTLA?
Does she realize how risky this was for the manager, yet he did it anyway?
We’ve been locked down since last March. That’s right. Inside the house for most of us, since March. Schools abruptly closed then and still not re-opened. We have the highest COVID rates and deaths in the Country. (It’s about 350-150 deaths per day since November). With the Antifa riots and vandalism in DTLA from June daily though November, things have been very very bad for DTLA, where Victor’s office and facilities are. (Things were boarded up, etc.)
Only people who HAVE TO are delivering things, like personally mailing packages. OP, in Los Angeles we TIP people who do an awesome job for free even if the job was under warranty. We throw money at people who do beautiful things and go above and beyond. We make them feel appreciated and respected. We do not what would be perceived as insult them by asking for $11 back on a $250 job that you got for free. (High end sizing, engraving and polishing.). I’m just talking about LA California. It seems like here, people tip for a job well done and would most definitely let the $15 ? difference on a transaction that involved all the effort being done by the vendor, go. EG, IMO let it go.
Sorry if this is not perceived by some as good or meticulous accounting. Sometimes things get crazy and there’s misunderstanding, and I feel like that is the case here. I can assure you no vindictiveness or trying to take advantage was meant. Quite the contrary. VC has ALWAYS been incredibly generous with his time with me. Like, LEGEND style gentility. Give them the benefit of the doubt, they are good people.
Does she realize how risky this was for the manager, yet he did it anyway?
We’ve been locked down since last March. That’s right. Inside the house for most of us, since March. Schools abruptly closed then and still not re-opened. We have the highest COVID rates and deaths in the Country. (It’s about 350-150 deaths per day since November). With the Antifa riots and vandalism in DTLA from June daily though November, things have been very very bad for DTLA, where Victor’s office and facilities are. (Things were boarded up, etc.)
Only people who HAVE TO are delivering things, like personally mailing packages. OP, in Los Angeles we TIP people who do an awesome job for free even if the job was under warranty. We throw money at people who do beautiful things and go above and beyond. We make them feel appreciated and respected. We do not what would be perceived as insult them by asking for $11 back on a $250 job that you got for free. (High end sizing, engraving and polishing.). I’m just talking about LA California. It seems like here, people tip for a job well done and would most definitely let the $15 ? difference on a transaction that involved all the effort being done by the vendor, go. EG, IMO let it go.
Sorry if this is not perceived by some as good or meticulous accounting. Sometimes things get crazy and there’s misunderstanding, and I feel like that is the case here. I can assure you no vindictiveness or trying to take advantage was meant. Quite the contrary. VC has ALWAYS been incredibly generous with his time with me. Like, LEGEND style gentility. Give them the benefit of the doubt, they are good people.
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munchee
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Just because you may not value accurate book-keeping, or follow up on details, doesn't mean other consumers don't value those things.
The vendor could have handled the more recent email many many ways that would have been respectful and yet definitively handle and close the matter. VC''s rep chose not to do that.
Just because a vendor does one part of business satisfactorily, or even goes beyond in one servicing transaction, doesn't negate that vendor's duty to tell the truth and to have proper accounting.
It may behoove VC to have reps who are conversant with different customer types and well versed in best practices in responding appropriately.
If VC chooses not to work on OP's VC pieces, they are unilaterally suspending the warranty that accompanied the VC piece(s). If VC is not going to provide the warranty to OP for her VC item(s), then VC is in breach of its own posted policy. I can't believe this is a position VC would take ... and if it is, shame on VC.
https://www.victorcanera.com/service/warranty
as I understand this was NO accidental damage, its repolishing, resizing and re-engraving. Which does not stated in Warranty. What stated in Warranty is that VC they have 1 time resizing free no charge if its half size and under. Over half size its with charge. And it said Accidental damage repair is at minimal cost to no cost. What’s actually under Warranty is, manufacturing defect, which is not the case this time.
@beatricezh how many size did you resize? Under half size?
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The lesson for vendors is never bend your policy it states there is a shipping charge, charge it and ship the item your way and per policy no exceptions.
Someone dont like the shipping charge they can decide not to send it in to you.
Having fair policies and sticking to them 100% saves a whole lot of problems of this type.
Someone dont like the shipping charge they can decide not to send it in to you.
Having fair policies and sticking to them 100% saves a whole lot of problems of this type.
munchee
Brilliant_Rock
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And thats why nowadays many CS line are answered by that automatic Voice and/or Robot operator, no flexibility, no human errors, no human feelings, no exceptions and its good for business.
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And thats why nowadays many CS line are answered by that automatic Voice and/or Robot operator, no flexibility, no human errors, no human feelings, no exceptions and its good for business.
Lets look at it from the other way as a consumer it builds trust that I know if X happens they will do Y.
If when X happens and there is a random response, how does that build trust?
edit: I can't really discuss this further in this thread per the board trade rules.
AnastasiaBeaverhausen
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There's probably not tons to say on this thread anymore, but I'll post some general info - even though I am not often a frequenter of RT
1. Anyone that thinks fedex is 100% smooth sailing all the time obviously doesn't have a big enough bill from fedex with enough packages sent to know this is not the case, lol. As I've learned dealing with fedex, many times it is worth some amount of money to just make the headache go away.
2. From my personal perspective, I would not be willing to accommodate using a customer's made label. I'm surprised VC was willing to do so. As was pointed out in this thread, vendors have different fedex accounts with different rates and exemptions for value declaration on jewelry. The intricacies of these policies are complex and such that I don't see it's ever in a vendor's (and rarely in a customer's) favor to "shop" shipping costs. It's too easy for someone who doesn't make lots of fedex labels to enter something incorrectly, etc and suddenly it's a headache for all involved. Shipping is very often the highest costs of doing a project. If I want $10,000 worth of pearls and jewelry correctly covered it may well be $200+ each way to get it quickly to the place it needs to be depending on the service. I'm sure most all the best PS vendors here would go to bat with Fedex or any shipper for a claim on a package. That's part of what you're paying for anyway -- it's service. People are usually willing to pay for service, too.
"Hi, (customer.) I appreciate your looking into shipping costs, but unfortunately the price given would be the price that would need to be charged for getting this package delivered. This would cover the label for you, business costs in creating it and ensuring safety of your package, and knowing that experience dealing with shipping couriers is on your side in the event something happens."
3. Finally, and I'm sure this doesn't surprise most but... pretty much every company makes at least a little off shipping. It's not something I would consider "padding" or crooked bookkeeping. And it's not like it's there out of greed. Every time one ships something, there's associated cost that isn't recouped even if a package comes back to you. Cost of the paper that packs it, cost of bubble wrap, cost of someone's time in putting that all together, cost of a box, cost of tape, cost of printing the label on paper with ink. Cost of gas to drop it off (for small vendors), cost of wear on a vehicle to do that. That's not free. But all that stuff is not going to be line itemized for you on an invoice- that's just silly. It's easier to just tell someone "cost of shipping will be ____" because, well, all those types of things are cost of shipping, and it's not being dishonest to consider costs of these extra things. Printing ones own label and putting in a spare box isn't a business cost for people but it is for vendors who buy those things.
As Karl said, from my as a vendor perspective, it's simply easier to do everything for customers. It gives better, easier service that people don't need to worry about anyway.
My 2c -- but it's well past midnight here now and I've probably rambled.
1. Anyone that thinks fedex is 100% smooth sailing all the time obviously doesn't have a big enough bill from fedex with enough packages sent to know this is not the case, lol. As I've learned dealing with fedex, many times it is worth some amount of money to just make the headache go away.
2. From my personal perspective, I would not be willing to accommodate using a customer's made label. I'm surprised VC was willing to do so. As was pointed out in this thread, vendors have different fedex accounts with different rates and exemptions for value declaration on jewelry. The intricacies of these policies are complex and such that I don't see it's ever in a vendor's (and rarely in a customer's) favor to "shop" shipping costs. It's too easy for someone who doesn't make lots of fedex labels to enter something incorrectly, etc and suddenly it's a headache for all involved. Shipping is very often the highest costs of doing a project. If I want $10,000 worth of pearls and jewelry correctly covered it may well be $200+ each way to get it quickly to the place it needs to be depending on the service. I'm sure most all the best PS vendors here would go to bat with Fedex or any shipper for a claim on a package. That's part of what you're paying for anyway -- it's service. People are usually willing to pay for service, too.
"Hi, (customer.) I appreciate your looking into shipping costs, but unfortunately the price given would be the price that would need to be charged for getting this package delivered. This would cover the label for you, business costs in creating it and ensuring safety of your package, and knowing that experience dealing with shipping couriers is on your side in the event something happens."
3. Finally, and I'm sure this doesn't surprise most but... pretty much every company makes at least a little off shipping. It's not something I would consider "padding" or crooked bookkeeping. And it's not like it's there out of greed. Every time one ships something, there's associated cost that isn't recouped even if a package comes back to you. Cost of the paper that packs it, cost of bubble wrap, cost of someone's time in putting that all together, cost of a box, cost of tape, cost of printing the label on paper with ink. Cost of gas to drop it off (for small vendors), cost of wear on a vehicle to do that. That's not free. But all that stuff is not going to be line itemized for you on an invoice- that's just silly. It's easier to just tell someone "cost of shipping will be ____" because, well, all those types of things are cost of shipping, and it's not being dishonest to consider costs of these extra things. Printing ones own label and putting in a spare box isn't a business cost for people but it is for vendors who buy those things.
As Karl said, from my as a vendor perspective, it's simply easier to do everything for customers. It gives better, easier service that people don't need to worry about anyway.
My 2c -- but it's well past midnight here now and I've probably rambled.
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MjK1
Shiny_Rock
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MjK1
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Agreed...I am starting to find out the more aggressive posters vs the always nice ones. I am new here also, but having been on many forums for various hobbies before, overall this is one of the nicest forums I have been on.
munchee
Brilliant_Rock
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And like @Karl_K said, vendors should stick to its policy, no exceptions. And just like what @diamondseeker2006 said, VC team need to charge OP for the repolishing that make the band wider than original ring, re-engraving, and if the resizing is more than 1/2 size, they need to charge for that too. Because the said “Warranty” that OP and @marymm mentioned so many times is only covering Manufacturing defect. And all that the OP asked for VC team performed is NOT manufacturing defect and only Good Customer Service that they should’ve charged for the time and effort spent as it is NO agreement in the sale time that it is Free of charge.
Why would others failed to see this????
AllAboardTheBlingTrain
Ideal_Rock
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After reading/skimming through these 5 pages my thoughts are as follows:
my understanding is that VC threw in some extra services complimentarily, there was some snafu over shipping, and when the OP wrote stating that they hadn’t been refunded for the shipping they’d paid for they were given an extra invoice because the vendor had hand delivered to Fedex but hadn’t let OP know that they were doing this; and then the OP reacted very strongly over this invoice.
I’d say the safest way forward for a vendor is to just be upfront from the beginning which I do think, looking at the email OP posted screenshots of, that they didn’t do. I’m sure it’s because they were just going above and beyond and not wanting to “take credit” for it, still remains that it would’ve probably been better to just clarify from the start, like, “the FedEx guy didn’t show up so I am going to hand deliver your package for you - we will waive the xxx hand delivery cost as a courtesy and refund you the shipping charge less xyz costs.” So in that vein, when receiving the email from OP, the best way would’ve been to clarify “we refunded you $11 (shipping charge less $4 packaging or whatever fee that $4 was I’ve lost track)”. Just my thoughts. I think the $30 invoice was kind of needlessly incendiary since the OP wasn’t actually aware that the package had been hand delivered in the first place, but I can understand the frustration.
That being said, it’s petty in the extreme to threaten a vendor with reporting to the BBB as a means of getting an apology. And ofc we aren’t privy to all the discussions and back and forth that has happened. I don’t also follow why the OP is afraid her ring wouldn’t be serviced as far as the services offered under warranty are considered? Did I miss something? That too seems needlessly incendiary to jump to that conclusion.
So yeah my take away for VC (who I’ve never worked with so I don’t know personally) would be that perhaps the vendor/his associates should be clearer in their communications (like don’t say “the FedEx guy picked it up” when it’s like “the FedEx guy didn’t show so I’m going to hand deliver it for you” — I understand they don’t want to be boastful and show off about how they’re truly going above and beyond but here the meaning is distorted and so this entire situation arises). My take away for OP would be that in the future, perhaps this sort of stuff would be easier resolved with a calm phone call, and to not jump to extreme responses like BBB or conclusions like “my warranty is void” (unless they specifically said something like that).
Just my $0.02. Hope I didn’t offend anyone.
my understanding is that VC threw in some extra services complimentarily, there was some snafu over shipping, and when the OP wrote stating that they hadn’t been refunded for the shipping they’d paid for they were given an extra invoice because the vendor had hand delivered to Fedex but hadn’t let OP know that they were doing this; and then the OP reacted very strongly over this invoice.
I’d say the safest way forward for a vendor is to just be upfront from the beginning which I do think, looking at the email OP posted screenshots of, that they didn’t do. I’m sure it’s because they were just going above and beyond and not wanting to “take credit” for it, still remains that it would’ve probably been better to just clarify from the start, like, “the FedEx guy didn’t show up so I am going to hand deliver your package for you - we will waive the xxx hand delivery cost as a courtesy and refund you the shipping charge less xyz costs.” So in that vein, when receiving the email from OP, the best way would’ve been to clarify “we refunded you $11 (shipping charge less $4 packaging or whatever fee that $4 was I’ve lost track)”. Just my thoughts. I think the $30 invoice was kind of needlessly incendiary since the OP wasn’t actually aware that the package had been hand delivered in the first place, but I can understand the frustration.
That being said, it’s petty in the extreme to threaten a vendor with reporting to the BBB as a means of getting an apology. And ofc we aren’t privy to all the discussions and back and forth that has happened. I don’t also follow why the OP is afraid her ring wouldn’t be serviced as far as the services offered under warranty are considered? Did I miss something? That too seems needlessly incendiary to jump to that conclusion.
So yeah my take away for VC (who I’ve never worked with so I don’t know personally) would be that perhaps the vendor/his associates should be clearer in their communications (like don’t say “the FedEx guy picked it up” when it’s like “the FedEx guy didn’t show so I’m going to hand deliver it for you” — I understand they don’t want to be boastful and show off about how they’re truly going above and beyond but here the meaning is distorted and so this entire situation arises). My take away for OP would be that in the future, perhaps this sort of stuff would be easier resolved with a calm phone call, and to not jump to extreme responses like BBB or conclusions like “my warranty is void” (unless they specifically said something like that).
Just my $0.02. Hope I didn’t offend anyone.
munchee
Brilliant_Rock
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@AllAboardTheBlingTrain
And this Warranty thing has ben taken out of context. I feel there’s a need to clarify one more time.
Warranty is for Manufacture defect, which is not the case here. What OP asking VC team to do and which they gave her free of charge are:
1. Repolishing into wider band (not the original shape)
2. Re-engraving which the original engraving was gone because a change of shape of the ring
3. Resizing, which is free for one time if its under half size.
so if OP is asking if her warranty would be voided in the future, Is there any manufacturing defect occurred at the viewing period? No. So I don’t understand what Warranty is being discussed here.
Accidental damage means wear and tear, which not promised under Warranty, they might fix it in minimal cost to no cost, but Accidental damage is Never in the warranty. I don’t understand all the fuzz about this Warranty in the future as this ting does Not have Manufacturing defect. Whatever they performed for OP this time is out of good deeds, no obligation under warranty except resizing under half size. Am I having language barrier here? That as my point of view whatever they did is not an obligation? And its not covered under warranty? If so, pardon my English.
Edit: I’m sorry @AllAboardTheBlingTrain this frustration regarding warranty topic isn’t directed to you! Not at all. Hope I didn’t offend you.
And this Warranty thing has ben taken out of context. I feel there’s a need to clarify one more time.
Warranty is for Manufacture defect, which is not the case here. What OP asking VC team to do and which they gave her free of charge are:
1. Repolishing into wider band (not the original shape)
2. Re-engraving which the original engraving was gone because a change of shape of the ring
3. Resizing, which is free for one time if its under half size.
so if OP is asking if her warranty would be voided in the future, Is there any manufacturing defect occurred at the viewing period? No. So I don’t understand what Warranty is being discussed here.
Accidental damage means wear and tear, which not promised under Warranty, they might fix it in minimal cost to no cost, but Accidental damage is Never in the warranty. I don’t understand all the fuzz about this Warranty in the future as this ting does Not have Manufacturing defect. Whatever they performed for OP this time is out of good deeds, no obligation under warranty except resizing under half size. Am I having language barrier here? That as my point of view whatever they did is not an obligation? And its not covered under warranty? If so, pardon my English.
Edit: I’m sorry @AllAboardTheBlingTrain this frustration regarding warranty topic isn’t directed to you! Not at all. Hope I didn’t offend you.
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AllAboardTheBlingTrain
Ideal_Rock
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@AllAboardTheBlingTrain
And this Warranty thing has ben taken out of context. I feel there’s a need to clarify one more time.
Warranty is for Manufacture defect, which is not the case here. What OP asking VC team to do and which they gave her free of charge are:
1. Repolishing into wider band (not the original shape)
2. Re-engraving which the original engraving was gone because a change of shape of the ring
3. Resizing, which is free for one time if its under half size.
so if OP is asking if her warranty would be voided in the future, Is there any manufacturing defect occurred at the viewing period? No. So I don’t understand what Warranty is being discussed here.
Accidental damage means wear and tear, which not promised under Warranty, they might fix it in minimal cost to no cost, but Accidental damage is Never in the warranty. I don’t understand all the fuzz about this Warranty in the future as this ting does Not have Manufacturing defect. Whatever they performed for OP this time is out of good deeds, no obligation under warranty except resizing under half size. Am I having language barrier here? That as my point of view whatever they did is not an obligation? And its not covered under warranty? If so, pardon my English.
Edit: I’m sorry @AllAboardTheBlingTrain this frustration regarding warranty topic isn’t directed to you! Not at all. Hope I didn’t offend you.
Don’t worry @munchee I’m not offended! I wouldn’t have been even if you hadn’t clarified, no issues at all.
Yeah I must admit I’m confused too as to where the warranty question arose as well. Is the OP saying that she thinks because of these issues VC will not handle any warranty issues that might come up in the future? That’s just pure speculation, if yes, and ought to not have been raised at all unless VC specifically said something like they wouldn’t honour the warranty. As far as I can see, no such thing has been said, so it’s unfair to VC that this warranty issue is being raised at all.
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