DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."?

[telephone89]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

Every day we receive emails from readers who have already chosen diamonds from vendors we are not affiliated with asking us if it's a good choice. In every case, if their choice is a better deal than anything we can find on an affiliated site, we will happily confirm their choice.

Doesn't that conflict with what the OP wrote?:
"I submitted an inquiry to DiamondPro for help choosing a stone. I'm looking for around 1.8 G, VS2 Round budget 18-19k. They immediately shot down my reserved stone at WF because they couldn't personally recommend buying from WF at all."

Instead of writing, "In every case ... " you should have written "In every case except for WF because we have reasons which we are going to keep secret ... "

Kenny, this is slightly clarified later in the response you quoted

Our experience with them, through our business relationship, though, gave us enough concern to not be able to recommend diamonds from them, or even confirm a reader's selection from them.


TBH I don't see why this is such a big deal. I'm sorry the OP was confused by the policies, but if they don't want to rec WF, they don't have to rec WF.

 

[iraweissman]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

Kenny, the article in question is here: https://www.diamonds.pro/truth-about/diamonds-pro/

It is linked to from every page on the site aside from the homepage. In you look in the sidebar of any content page underneath the orange "Submit Question" button, there is a link "Read why we are doing this for free." You could have easily found this yourself if you would have bothered to search on page for the link text I wrote. I didn't put the actual link up initially because PS ops hate it when "trade" people post links.

I'm not sure what the reason for your snarky tone is, but there's really no need for it.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

It is important to recognize that whole new industries have grown out of the relatively new marketing channel of e-commerce. SEO (search engine optimization), SEM (search engine marketing) and the Affiliate Marketing being discussed here are a few of them and they are closely related.

Because affiliate marketing is a relative recent phenomenon, there are few established rules and there exists a mixed bag of players in the space. Some have true expertise, credentials and industry standing and are producing worthwhile content and providing consumers an additional source of information, education and advice. Others are throwing together websites with questionable content, adding little if any value, and squatting on the keywords of established vendors to drive traffic to their sites and to their affiliate links. Still others are involved in proactively diverting consumers to their paying vendors by using negative tactics that are quite concerning, and that are indeed quite damaging to vendors that are unfairly targeted.

We receive regular reports from customers of the kind that started this thread. Our advice to them is to access multiple sources of information, to take everything with a grain of salt, and at the end of the day use their own judgment. Before believing negative assertions about a company, check them out for yourself. The internet makes it very easy- you can dial a company name up on several third party review sites such as Ivouch, Yelp, Google, to read customer reviews. You can look to the premier online consumer forums such as Pricescope to get real time reviews and feedback. There are online BBB reports to make sure you are dealing with a reputable company. Check the professional bona fides of the person or company offering the product or advice. Do they have GIA or AGS credentials attesting to a level of technical expertise? Do they belong to professional trade organizations?

Bottom line from our perspective is that we would rather focus on who we are and what we do than respond to negative comments or innuendo. Let us stand on the reputation we have worked so hard to establish over 15 years of actually serving customers. That record is totally accessible in the form of verified customer reviews, membership in the American Gem Society, a long string of Better Business Bureau awards including the 2015 BBB Pinnacle, our certification for ISO9000 Total Quality Management. Let customers gain the confidence from this easy research that they are dealing with a reputable company that puts the customer first. And then focus on our deep in-stock inventories of the kind of diamonds and designer engagement rings that consumers here are looking for, that are guaranteed available with a full set of information, diagnostics, and value added benefits clearly posted to enable consumers to compare apples to apples with the offerings of other high quality vendors.

We have not always been perfect, are not today, and probably will occasionally fall down in the future. But we have dedicated ourselves to a system of continual improvement by implementing things such as ISO 9000 and organizing our team around a set of Core Values that position the customer experience as the goal of everything that we do.

No doubt the affiliate landscape will continue to evolve. Those that add value for the consumer will rise and those that don’t will fade away. The internet is a place of free speech where even those who may not have the consumer’s best interest in mind can gain a following. In the end, smart shopping has always involved a healthy element of ‘caveat emptor’ and due diligence.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

Good reply, Bryan.

They recommend diamonds from sites who pay them. That is not impartial advice.

"The truth is that we actually affiliate with 6-8 sites on a regular basis. If you check out our “Diamond Q&As”, you’ll notice that we recommend diamonds from Enchanted Diamonds, Zoara, Leibish, Ritani, Since1910, Brian Gavin Diamonds and, yes, even Blue Nile, depending on the customer. Having this agreement with the industry’s leaders provides you with the peace of mind that our advice is fair and objective."

"In our case, we check with the diamond companies we’ve made these arrangements with to verify which of our readers bought the diamonds we recommended and our commission is based on that list of purchases. So while we would never sell your info for marketing/spam, we do send our affiliates the names and email addresses of the readers we’ve helped personally. This way they can verify that we helped you out and we receive compensation for our time and effort."

 

[gm89uk]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

Ultimately, no matter what happens, if there is no clear reason that can be given to customers as to why a vendor can't be recommended, It is unfair to sway customers away from a service that thousands of others are delighted with. It is happy customers that matter at the end of the day, evident by the support and reviews of WF.

In my personal opinion, a subjective business mishap that can not be linked to end consumer experience is not a reason to publicly chastise another company; but such is the world of business.

 

[goodliferunner]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

I applaud Texas Leaguer for his classy response. Although I mostly lurk on these forums, I am the proud owner of a beautiful ACA diamond and chose Whiteflash for their level of integrity- both in the quality of diamonds they carry as well as their obvious commitment to customer service.

 

[ame]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

Good reply, Bryan.

Agreed.

They recommend diamonds from sites who pay them. That is not impartial advice.

"The truth is that we actually affiliate with 6-8 sites on a regular basis. If you check out our “Diamond Q&As”, you’ll notice that we recommend diamonds from Enchanted Diamonds, Zoara, Leibish, Ritani, Since1910, Brian Gavin Diamonds and, yes, even Blue Nile, depending on the customer. Having this agreement with the industry’s leaders provides you with the peace of mind that our advice is fair and objective."

The "truth" (your word, not mine!) is that you affiliated with these sites because you saw an opportunity to make money off of uneducated consumers and recommend diamonds from the sites willing to pay you a commission. To call all of these "industry leaders" is using the term leader pretty liberally, and partnering with a site doesn't in any way provide any sort of objectivity to anyone. If anything it outright declares you're the exact opposite.

I have nothing wrong with affiliate programs when they're very clearly disclosed. What I do have a problem with is someone using the program in a manner such as this, trying to claim "objectivity" and doing so as if they are "protecting" consumers from some other vendor who they consider "predatory." It's nonsense. Especially when you try to say "you're doing it for free." Because you're not. You're an affiliate and you're getting paid. That's NOT for free, nor is it "the truth."

 

[Andelain]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

Good reply, Bryan.

They recommend diamonds from sites who pay them. That is not impartial advice.

"The truth is that we actually affiliate with 6-8 sites on a regular basis. If you check out our “Diamond Q&As”, you’ll notice that we recommend diamonds from Enchanted Diamonds, Zoara, Leibish, Ritani, Since1910, Brian Gavin Diamonds and, yes, even Blue Nile, depending on the customer. Having this agreement with the industry’s leaders provides you with the peace of mind that our advice is fair and objective."

"In our case, we check with the diamond companies we’ve made these arrangements with to verify which of our readers bought the diamonds we recommended and our commission is based on that list of purchases. So while we would never sell your info for marketing/spam, we do send our affiliates the names and email addresses of the readers we’ve helped personally. This way they can verify that we helped you out and we receive compensation for our time and effort."

So it sounds like "lost our trust" really translates to "refused to pay us".

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

Hello!

I submitted an inquiry to DiamondPro for help choosing a stone. I'm looking for around 1.8 G, VS2 Round budget 18-19k. They immediately shot down my reserved stone at WF because they couldn't personally recommend buying from WF at all. Does anyone know why this is? They haven't responded when I asked why. WF seems to be fairly highly regarded on Pricescope,
especially ACA diamonds. Is it likely that they just aren't affiliated and can't make money from recommending WF stones?

I'm sure they only recommend diamonds from vendors that give them a kickback.

Follow the money.

BTW, we do what they do ... for free ... and we do it with no kickbacks.
I believe PS does get paid by vendors if they put their inventory in PS's Diamond search database but I and 99% of the posters here get paid nothing to help you find a stone.

Folks here will make recommendations for your budget and specs.

Exactly Kenny. But did you know that any consumer who visits one of these shark sites leaves a cookie that gets them an affiliate payment if you end up buying a diamond from a vendor they are hooked up with.

Hence they generate lots of income which they can spend, as Bryan mentions in his gentlemanly post, they spend heaps on key words and hop onto an updraft spiral.

Personally I think the business model is fakery.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

I debated with myself whether or not to reply to this thread, but in the end, I felt it was necessary to defend our name being besmirched here on PS.

My name is Ira Weissman. I am the founder of Truth About Diamonds that is now known as The Diamond Pro. I no longer play an active role in the day to day operation of the site. My former colleague from Leo Schachter diamonds (where we were trained professionally and worked together), Michael Fried, now runs the site.

Many of the comments on this thread focus on two points:
1) That WF diamonds are great!
2) We must say what we do about them because we don't work with them.

To the first point, I would like to state clearly for the record that I think that WF diamonds are fantastic. Their ACAs are just as good as everyone else's super ideals. Diamond quality was never the issue.

To the second point, I want to state for the record that we used to be affiliated with them, but we broke off the relationship. In order for the affiliate relationship to work, there has to be 100% trust between the parties. We lost that trust in them. Why that is the case will remain private - primarily due to fears of being hit with a libel lawsuit.

I would also like to state that in July of 2015, we were contacted by WF offering us more favorable terms than what they share with other affiliates, but we declined their offer because of what transpired in the earlier incidents.

Every day we receive emails from readers who have already chosen diamonds from vendors we are not affiliated with asking us if it's a good choice. In every case, if their choice is a better deal than anything we can find on an affiliated site, we will happily confirm their choice. We know that our reputation is of the utmost importance and we do everything we can to be objective. We write about this in our article entitled The Truth About The Diamond Pro linked to from every content page with the link text "Read why we are doing this for free." Our reputation is worth so much more than any individual commission.

I'm sure all of you who commented that are customers of WF really did have amazing experiences. I'm sure they do their honest best to give every customer the best possible experience. Our experience with them, through our business relationship, though, gave us enough concern to not be able to recommend diamonds from them, or even confirm a reader's selection from them. Does violating the trust of a business relationship necessarily mean that they would ever violate a customer's trust? Probably not. But we're not willing to take any chances when someone comes to us for advice.

I fully admit that WF would have a different perspective on what happened and feels they have legitimate reasons for how they treated us. That's fine. Our goal was never to drag them through the mud. We don't write anything obviously negative about them on our site. We only respond this way privately if someone asks us about them.

Honestly, I would prefer if this whole thread would be taken down. I don't like writing even this much publicly. I regret that the OP wrote what he did and the ensuing conversation forced me to respond to defend our business.

Hi Ira,
Welcome back - a brave move I am sure.

Would you care to mention why it is so hard to find that you make money that very few people know you and other affiliates (who also hide the fact deep in their websites) are making?

And you know have over 6000 posts on Pricescope.
When did you declare that you were in or from the trade, and why not on your first post?
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/appraisal-sent-w-diamond-legit.17125/

 

[kenny]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

Hi Ira,
Welcome back - a brave move I am sure.

Would you care to mention why it is so hard to find that you make money that very few people know you and other affiliates (who also hide the fact deep in their websites) are making?

And you know have over 6000 posts on Pricescope.
When did you declare that you were in or from the trade, and why not on your first post?
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/appraisal-sent-w-diamond-legit.17125/

Wait a minute.



Are you saying that Regular Guy who Joined July 2004 and has posted as recently as Mar 2015 and Ira Weissman, (who registered and started posting April 2009) are the same person?

If so, doesn't posting under two profiles violate the PS policies that we all had to read and agree to when registering?

 

[kenny]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

...

I'm not sure what the reason for your snarky tone is, but there's really no need for it.

Nice.
College Debating101: Divert the audience's attention from questions you don't want to answer by putting down your opponent.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

Hi Ira,
Welcome back - a brave move I am sure.

Would you care to mention why it is so hard to find that you make money that very few people know you and other affiliates (who also hide the fact deep in their websites) are making?

And you know have over 6000 posts on Pricescope.
When did you declare that you were in or from the trade, and why not on your first post?
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/appraisal-sent-w-diamond-legit.17125/

Wait a minute.



Are you saying that Regular Guy who Joined July 2004 and has posted as recently as Mar 2015 and Ira Weissman, (who registered and started posting April 2009) are the same person?

If so, doesn't posting under two profiles violate the PS policies that we all had to read and agree to when registering?

Oops, I think you are right - apologies Regular Guy

 

[kenny]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

Hi Ira,
Welcome back - a brave move I am sure.

Would you care to mention why it is so hard to find that you make money that very few people know you and other affiliates (who also hide the fact deep in their websites) are making?

And you know have over 6000 posts on Pricescope.
When did you declare that you were in or from the trade, and why not on your first post?
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/appraisal-sent-w-diamond-legit.17125/

Wait a minute.



Are you saying that Regular Guy who Joined July 2004 and has posted as recently as Mar 2015 and Ira Weissman, (who registered and started posting April 2009) are the same person?

If so, doesn't posting under two profiles violate the PS policies that we all had to read and agree to when registering?

Oops, I think you are right - apologies Regular Guy

Regular Guy types Ira Z. at the bottom of his posts, but the DiamonPro guy is an Ira W.

Garry, was there some reason other than the shared first name you suspected it might be the same person?
Do you no longer suspect they might be the same person?

... Garry, maybe Ws and Zs just seem the same to you because you've been looking at diamonds too long.

 

[pyramid]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

This thread is really what you do not want to read the night before going back to work after the holidays!

 

[iraweissman]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

Gary, I am not "Regular Guy." I have only ever had one PS profile "IraWeissman."

As for your question about why I do not declare it clearly - I will state again, I have an article entitled "Truth About The Diamond Pro" that is linked to from every page of my website that discusses what affiliate marketing is and how we generate revenue.

Aside from that, we have a boilerplate response we add to every email we respond to that mentions how we make money.

If affiliate marketing was pure "fakery" then why are so many of your trusted colleagues involved in it? WF, BGD, HPD? Even PS appears to have their own affiliate program since they're selling other people's goods (ie, https://www.pricescope.com/jewelry/engagement-rings/classic-six-prong-engagement-ring-in-14k-white-gold-1732)

Keep in mind one thing - we always strive to be as objective as possible. We are constantly seeking to increase the number of vendors we work with to achieve this goal. On the other hand, how is someone like you supposed to remain objective when you have so much skin in the idealscope game? Or how is someone supposed to take the advice of any of the other "trade" people on PS seriously?

It seems to me that on PS, you're stuck between either getting biased advice from someone who's heavily invested in selling his own goods, or getting advice from a "prosumer." There's certainly nothing wrong with the latter, but many people prefer getting advice from an industry professional who doesn't have any allegiances to any particular vendor. We fill that niche, and we do it very well.

 

[iraweissman]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

Exactly Kenny. But did you know that any consumer who visits one of these shark sites leaves a cookie that gets them an affiliate payment if you end up buying a diamond from a vendor they are hooked up with.

Hence they generate lots of income which they can spend, as Bryan mentions in his gentlemanly post, they spend heaps on key words and hop onto an updraft spiral.

Personally I think the business model is fakery.

And Gary, this really shows your ignorance. There are no cookies placed on anyone's computer simply by visiting my site. A user would have to be referred from my site to an affiliate's site in order for a cookie to be placed.

And to your 2nd point - I have never spent money on key word advertising. Just checking Google Analytics, 88% of my visits are from Organic Search. 10% are direct and 2% are from referrals.

You should learn more about things before you comment on them.

 

[kenny]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

Keep in mind one thing - we always strive to be as objective as possible. We are constantly seeking to increase the number of vendors we work with to achieve this goal. On the other hand, how is someone like you supposed to remain objective when you have so much skin in the idealscope game? Or how is someone supposed to take the advice of any of the other "trade" people on PS seriously?

It seems to me that on PS, you're stuck between either getting biased advice from someone who's heavily invested in selling his own goods, or getting advice from a "prosumer." There's certainly nothing wrong with the latter, but many people prefer getting advice from an industry professional who doesn't have any allegiances to any particular vendor. We fill that niche, and we do it very well.

If you take money from a vendor and YOU recommend that vendor to the public then you have not only an allegiance to that vendor, you have an unethical conflict of allegiance.

We prosumers get paid nothing so we have no conflict of interest and no allegiance to any vendor ... except those who earn it with good policies, quality and prices.
We prosumers often recommend Brian Gavin often and he doesn't even post here or advertise here on PS.
PS does not black ball BGDs like you blackball WF.

 

[Andelain]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

.Or how is someone supposed to take the advice of any of the other "trade" people on PS seriously?

It seems to me that on PS, you're stuck between either getting biased advice from someone who's heavily invested in selling his own goods, or getting advice from a "prosumer." There's certainly nothing wrong with the latter, but many people prefer getting advice from an industry professional who doesn't have any allegiances to any particular vendor. We fill that niche, and we do it very well.

Any trade person who comments on any of the stones discussed is in violation of PS's written policy.

 

[bd6845]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

Hey guys, this thread really took off

I chose not to continue using their blog in my search since I started just going in to places myself to check stones out in person. But they emailed me this morning and asked that I clarify the email thread here. So, if you'd like to get more details, see below. Thank y'all for the help! Can't wait to show off the ring in SMTB when it comes!


I started with a submission to their online inquiry form after finding them through a basic 'diamond help' google search...

--------------------------------------------------
Me:

Hello! I'm not sure how this works but I'd like some help with my search for a loose diamond. Looking to set something in a halo, possible shapes are Round, Oval and Cushion. I'm keeping everything a secret, but the future fiance not-so-subtly hinted that those three shapes are her favorite and she definitely wants a halo and smaller diamonds along the outside of the ring itself...

Anyway, budget for everything is about $20k, so I'm thinking I could probably spend about $17.5k or $18k on the diamond itself, right? Color is important (she told me a horror story of one of her friends having to ask why her diamond looked yellow compared to someone else's) and she has small hands, I think shes around a size 4/4.5 ring size.

I can't decide between online retailers (blue nile scared me away with not being able to see pictures) or trying to hunt a diamond down in person. Also, any suggestions on narrowing down the shape of the diamond?

Thanks!

--------------------------------------------------
Them:

I'm NAME, Diamond Pro's lead diamond consultant. I'll be helping you from here out. I want to start by explaining what we do. Our job is to take the guess work out of buying a diamond. We do extensive research on the major diamond companies out there and make sure you are dealing with reputable companies while getting the best deal possible. We are here to answer any questions you may have at any point in the diamond-buying process. If you end up buying a diamond that we recommend, we then receive compensation from the company you chose to buy from. This means that our services don't cost you a thing. The greatest part is that even though you don't pay a dime, our loyalty in this whole process is to you. We do our best to give the most unbiased advice we can because, in the end, that's how we've built our reputation and credibility to this point.

All we ask is that you help us make sure we get credit for your purchase. At the end of the month we will check with the diamond companies we recommend to see if you purchased a diamond from them. We use your email address to check this, so if you do buy a diamond we recommend, it's really important that we know what email address you used to purchase it. If it ends up being different from the one you are using to communicate with me, please let me know which address you used. And that's all we need. Simple, right?

So, let's see what I can do for you today...

I'd be happy to help you. Do you have any specific carat size in mind or you just want the largest diamond for the budget?

--------------------------------------------------

Me:

That sounds great and I'm totally on board on giving credit where credit is due.

I'd like the biggest carat size for my money. I looked at a Whiteflash A Cut Above yesterday at their Houston store that looked pretty good to me. It was 1.83 carat, G color, SI1, and seemed very eye clean to me. I would feel a little better if it was VS2 just for the mental aspect of knowing it's at least in the VS category, but I was impressed with their A Cut Above standards - they seem more than just regular marketing...

Something around those specs, but maybe VS2 would be perfect.

--------------------------------------------------

Them:

We have had terrible personal experiences with White Flash that a) make us feel no one should ever buy from them and b) precludes us from being objective about them.

If you have a beautifully cut Ex diamond, it looks amazing as well. And you don't have to spend extra for "special" cut. I'd recommend these diamonds:
www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.80-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-812175?a_aid=dmnd1357&chan=x
www.zoara.com/diamonds/p_round_excellent_cut_h_vvs2#p=6333797&a_aid=y&chan=x

They are the same size and will look gorgeously brilliant.

--------------------------------------------------

Me:

Could you expand on the disadvantages of buying a WF stone?

Those stones look great. Is there something even better for maybe another $2000? I'd like a G color, but those stones do look good!

--------------------------------------------------

Them:

I'm really sorry, but we will not comment on White Flash under any circumstances.

There is no visible difference between a G and H color. Check out our color video here.
I found this other option:
www.zoara.com/diamonds/p_round_excellent_cut_h_vs2#p=6340282&a_aid=y&chan=x


--------------------------------------------------

I never responded after this point because I was successful in my own search and found what I was looking for. This thread took off, and a few days later (today) this is the email asking me to clarify what was said.


--------------------------------------------------

Them:

This is actually MANAGER?NAME chiming in here. Someone from Price Scope brought your thread to our attention. Perhaps NAME wasn't entirely clear when she first wrote to you, but from what I see, she never shot down the original diamond. What she said was that we have had terrible experiences with White Flash and that precludes us from being objective. My partner, OTHERMANGERNAME, talked a little more about it on the price scope thread, but our issues involved our dealings with White Flash personally and we can't recommend a company that we don't trust. Because our issues are fundamental (trusting the people involved) and highly subjective (based on our personal dealings), we will never say whether a White Flash diamond is good or bad.

We are happy to comment on any other companies diamonds. In NAME'S original email to you, she was clear how we operate (and this article is linked to on the sidebar of every article we have right in the "ask us a question" form). But that has never stopped us from advising you on any diamond you find. If you send us a diamond from any company, we will do our best to give you advice on that diamond (if, for example, its a VS2-I1 diamond from a company without high quality photos, we can't comment on whether its a good deal because we can't judge the eye-cleanliness). The only exception to this is White Flash.

Just so you know, White Flash offers affiliate marketing with commissions as high (or higher) than any company we recommend. The reasons we do not recommend them have nothing to do with whether they will offer to pay us for recommending them.

I'd appreciate if you clarify on the thread that we never shot down the specific choice you asked about and you can copy paste our responses to your questions if you want. I know it wasn't your intention, but multiple people there have responded that we rejected the diamond because we aren't making money off of it and that its really a good diamond. That is certainly not the reason we refused to comment on them and NAME never said anything about that diamond.

And if you have any other questions about diamonds, we'd be happy to help you.

--------------------------------------------------

Anyway, thanks for reading. I really don't want to be on anyone's bad side, I was just trying to figure out the reason behind them not recommending WF especially after such a positive response from this forum recommending them.

EDIT: removed one more name I found in my original post.

 

[Andelain]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

We have had terrible personal experiences with White Flash that a) make us feel no one should ever buy from them and b) precludes us from being objective about them.

Yet they didn't shoot down your first choice.....

 

[Andelain]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

PS facade, eh? Why not post using your real username?

 

[marymm]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

PS facade, eh? Why not post using your real username?

Are you the scared censor police? who already reported my post, who can't stand an open discussion or to refute my posts on this topic and instead chooses to try censorship instead.

Well, "psfacade," as you have created an additional ID, you are in violation of Forum Rule 13b "Creating multiple ID's automatically indicates shilling and all associated accounts will be terminated." Tell me, how is it an open discussion when you are hiding your true PS ID?



eta: yeah, I also thought psfacade's original post stated he would reveal his PS identity if the thread remained up uncensored... but while I was typing out my reply, his post was edited. (I am using "his/he" but could be "her/she")

 

[Andelain]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

PS facade, eh? Why not post using your real username?

Are you the scared censor police? who already reported my post, who can't stand an open discussion or to refute my posts on this topic and instead chooses to try censorship instead.

Nice edit. At first you were willing to show who you are as long as these posts stay up.

 

[Andelain]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

Well, "psfacade," as you have created an additional ID, you are in violation of Forum Rule 13b "Creating multiple ID's automatically indicates shilling and all associated accounts will be terminated." Tell me, how is it an open discussion when you are hiding your true PS ID?

At least the username is fitting, it's a facade.

 

[kenny]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

Ira,

As you have noticed you are fighting an uphill battle. Not unexpected given that Pricescope has to protect its 'unbiased' 'prosumers' a or its 'saint' trademembers who post here out of altruism(sarcastic tone).

I'm a prosumer and I don't post because of altruism.
I post because teaching/helping feeds my huge ego.

I LOVE what a well cut diamond can do with light.
Most diamonds sold are not well cut.
Most diamonds are over priced and often graded by labs that lie about color and clarity.
Some vendors love selling these fraudulently-graded stones because they make more profit off them than GIA/AGS stones.
But consumers are overpaying and getting diamonds worse than they think they are.

I feed my huge ego by helping them learn the truth.

I am sick of the PS politics, censorship, and protectionism of the vendors that pay for banner ads or for the PS listing service. You will notice the most active trademembers here are also the ones who pay this site for advertising and those that don't promote themselves through their signature line in every post they make. I even suspect this post itself might be removed before many have read it.

The previous owner of PS was a zillion times more paranoid and censor crazy than Andrey is.
He reminded me of the old USSR.
I'm astonished at how many posts critical of PS vendors and PS itself are left up.
Kudos to Andrey and Ella!

There are very few reasons I can think of why an educated consumer should continue to post here after a while and most don't. The ones that do are a very vocal and dedicated bunch who will defend vigorously their value and superiority to those outside of pricescope giving advice. They are also not shy about promoting their favourite vendor and brand or validating their own purchases.

Why should anyone dedicate their time for free to line the pockets of Garry Holloway and Andrey Pilipchak the owners of this site? The PS search engine is terrible and the same content gets regurgitated over and over again (on purpose) without proper reference to its originator. This isn't an academic community with free speech where dissent against its precious advertisers is allowed or even tolerated.

Why?
Because we love what good cut can do, it's rare.
We love honest gem grading and that's rare too.
We love good value and vendor policies; that's rare too.

We've found a good thing and want to share it.
That Garry and Andrey make money off all this delights me!
They deserve it!!!

As for the attack on your site you could deflate all of their attacks and protectionism by saying simply:

"We work with X number of fine vendors and are only comfortable recommending stones from those companies that we work with" "We do not charge any fee for our services to you, we are compensated when you click through our site and purchase at one of the vendors we work with."

I agree.
Many consumers are justifiably jaded, suspicious and skeptical, especially when spending thousands via an Internet site.
IMO prominently revealing how a site makes it's money is very wise ... both for DiamondPro and for Pricescope.
IMO, the first FAQ should be, "How do we make our money?"

Given that Bryan at BGD used to work at WF and developed the criteria for the ACA, which is strikingly similar to the BGD Signature H&A(they source form some of the same suppliers) I am sure your service should have no trouble finding suitable alternatives to most ACAs.

Total disclosure of the above shouldn't diminish the value of your selection service nor make you too biased to offer prudent advice and give your users more confidence than they might get on their own.

Brian (not Bryan) Gavin's history at WF is very well know to PS regulars.
It is often mentioned on PS, and PS does not censor this.
Years ago something happened that resulted in Gavin and PS parting ways
BGD does not advertise at PS and nobody from BGD posts here any more.
Yet, still, there is no censorship of BGD here at PS.
BGD is often recommended.
PS does not blackball BGD like DiamondPro has blackballed WF.

IMO, a key difference between DP and PS is the people actually running PS never post advice.
Unpaid volunteers do that.
To their credit PS drastically limits what vendors (PS-advertising or not) can say.
Vendors cannot promote their diamonds; they can't even comment on diamonds from other vendors.

To me PS feels extremely transparent and honest.
DiamondPro feels creepy and shady, not a place I'd trust to do business with.

Though I do give Ira kudos for coming here to post.
IMO, he did way more harm than good to his business though.

Best of luck I think you have defended your site well enough and the 'prosumers' will never be satisfied in this thread with your responses, they are your natural opponents.

[/quote]

Yes, of course I oppose DiamondPro, for all the reasons in this post and in this thread.

 

[ringmaster88]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

PSfacade, you are not alone. This forum is extremely biased and political, and the level of censorship is unparalleled. Speak one bad thing about WhiteFlash and you're out of here. Commend a brick and mortar and just as equally, you're out.

I honestly don't trust anyone here with more than 100 posts, and definitely not 1000, and never 10,000+. I wouldn't recommend that you do either. These forum members have only stuck around long enough because they keep pushing and pushing the same diamond vendors. You'll never catch them say something that doesn't toe the line.

I feel most sorry for newbies who stumble across this website and suddenly feel like PSers are their best friends. It's really easy to say "Here's a great diamond! <insert James Allen link or WF link>" rather than consider that each individual's needs are unique. How often is "We'll find you a better one!" seen in these forums? Yet often times they're not even looking for a new diamond, they just want somebody's opinion.

My advice to all who are new: Take their advice with a grain of salt, or stay away. PS is definitely an "old boys club." And I mean that literally. I know for a fact that most of you are old, from the hand pics of your jewelry.

 

[Andelain]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

PSfacade, you are not alone. This forum is extremely biased and political, and the level of censorship is unparalleled. Speak one bad thing about WhiteFlash and you're out of here. Commend a brick and mortar and just as equally, you're out.

I honestly don't trust anyone here with more than 100 posts, and definitely not 1000, and never 10,000+. I wouldn't recommend that you do either. These forum members have only stuck around long enough because they keep pushing and pushing the same diamond vendors. You'll never catch them say something that doesn't toe the line.

I feel most sorry for newbies who stumble across this website and suddenly feel like PSers are their best friends. It's really easy to say "Here's a great diamond! <insert James Allen link or WF link>" rather than consider that each individual's needs are unique. How often is "We'll find you a better one!" seen in these forums? Yet often times they're not even looking for a new diamond, they just want somebody's opinion.

If so many people are recommending a vendor, without getting a cent to do so, that vendor must be doing something right.

 

[kenny]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

PSfacade, you are not alone. This forum is extremely biased and political, and the level of censorship is unparalleled. Speak one bad thing about WhiteFlash and you're out of here. Commend a brick and mortar and just as equally, you're out.

I honestly don't trust anyone here with more than 100 posts, and definitely not 1000, and never 10,000+. I wouldn't recommend that you do either. These forum members have only stuck around long enough because they keep pushing and pushing the same diamond vendors. You'll never catch them say something that doesn't toe the line.

I feel most sorry for newbies who stumble across this website and suddenly feel like PSers are their best friends. It's really easy to say "Here's a great diamond! <insert James Allen link or WF link>" rather than consider that each individual's needs are unique. How often is "We'll find you a better one!" seen in these forums? Yet often times they're not even looking for a new diamond, they just want somebody's opinion.

My advice to all who are new: Take their advice with a grain of salt, or stay away. PS is definitely an "old boys club." And I mean that literally. I know for a fact that most of you are old, from the hand pics of your jewelry.

Oh Look!
Yet another new poster who registered after this thread was started ...

Hmmmmm .....
Couldn't possibly be a shill.

Let's see how many more noobs just happen to register.

 

[telephone89]

Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

PSfacade, you are not alone. This forum is extremely biased and political, and the level of censorship is unparalleled. Speak one bad thing about WhiteFlash and you're out of here. Commend a brick and mortar and just as equally, you're out.

I honestly don't trust anyone here with more than 100 posts, and definitely not 1000, and never 10,000+. I wouldn't recommend that you do either. These forum members have only stuck around long enough because they keep pushing and pushing the same diamond vendors. You'll never catch them say something that doesn't toe the line.

I feel most sorry for newbies who stumble across this website and suddenly feel like PSers are their best friends. It's really easy to say "Here's a great diamond! <insert James Allen link or WF link>" rather than consider that each individual's needs are unique. How often is "We'll find you a better one!" seen in these forums? Yet often times they're not even looking for a new diamond, they just want somebody's opinion.

My advice to all who are new: Take their advice with a grain of salt, or stay away. PS is definitely an "old boys club." And I mean that literally. I know for a fact that most of you are old, from the hand pics of your jewelry.

To the bolded - if you knew a lot about cars and someone showed you a craigslist car that was a piece of shit and asked your opinion on it, would you honestly in good conscious tell them it was a great buy? Or would you look through craigslist and find them an alternative that would either be lower km/better condition/lower price? If you would actually let someone buy a POS then that is deplorable. People on here like/LOVE diamonds, and want to find someone find the best one they can. If budget is their most important constraint, we try to work within that. If it's something else, then fine.

Tbh, I'm active on a number of forums. Pretty sure the owners of all the forums I'm on get paid, even if its only from ads. This is something to pass the time, and I love that it helps someone.