Gulf of Mexico ------>>>>>> Gulf of America

[Bonfire]

Interestingly, the Gulf of Mexico has had many names

This is interestingly accurate,

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

This is interestingly accurate,

I like men so I have no comment to that sexist meme.

 

[Matata]

I like men so I have no comment to that sexist meme.

Yes you do and yes you did.

com·ment
/ˈkäˌment/
noun
1. a verbal or written remark expressing an opinion or reaction.
"you asked for comments on the new proposals"

Similar:
remark
observation
statement
utterance
pronouncement

 

[missy]

It’s sad we can’t have an intelligent discussion without resorting to insulting memes

 

[Lookinagain]

Why are we being punished with tariffs and VATS on our trade arrangements and the countries we're dealing with do not have that onus?

My understanding is VAT is charged/paid in each step of production and on the end consumer, like a sales tax. Not a tariff. And as an international traveler, you can generally get a refund if the goods are "new". So the U.S. isn't paying VATS. Just tariffs. At least that 's my understanding.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

My understanding is VAT is charged/paid in each step of production and on the end consumer, like a sales tax. Not a tariff. And as an international traveler, you can generally get a refund if the goods are "new". So the U.S. isn't paying VATS. Just tariffs. At least that 's my understand

Yes, imported goods from the United States are subject to Value Added Tax (VAT) when entering the European Union.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

Yes you do and yes you did.

com·ment
/ˈkäˌment/
noun
1. a verbal or written remark expressing an opinion or reaction.
"you asked for comments on the new proposals"

Similar:
remark
observation
statement
utterance
pronouncement

Let it be known, I knew exactly what I said without the "lesson". But it garnered the thought I wanted it to garner in regards to that meme.

 

[Rockdiamond]

If you look at Tariffs and how they work… they are taxes. When we ship a diamond ring to France ( for example) the buyer is hit with a lot of taxes and duties (iirc a hit 20%)
Sucks for people in France who want to buy Diamonds from the US. It might be the same for jewelry from other places- I don’t know.
Imposing tariffs on the things we buy simply means we need to pay more for them.
Maybe it’s fair for wine drinkers in the US to pay more for wine because French people have to pay more for diamonds?
But the bottom line seems so simple. Tariffs raise prices for consumers.

 

[Lookinagain]

But a closer look at this charge indicates they do not charge VAT on anything residents purchase in their own country. So in essence, but disguised, it is a tariff and a healthy one at that.

I can't find support for that and if it's charged at each state of production, then it's being paid along the way, and then the end consumer pays it. When I looked it up I found this:

Value Added Tax (VAT) is a consumption tax that is applied to nearly all goods and services that are bought and sold for use or consumption in the EU.

The EU has standard rules on VAT, but these rules may be applied differently in each EU country. In most cases, you have to pay VAT on all goods and services at all stages of the supply chain including the sale to the final consumer. This includes from the beginning to the end of a production process, e.g. buying components, transport, assembly, provisions, packaging, insurance and shipping to the final consumer.

VAT isn't charged on exports of goods to countries outside the EU.
Also this from:

How does VAT work?

What is VAT and how does it work

taxation-customs.ec.europa.eu

• an indirect tax as it is collected from customers (the buyers) as part of the price paid to their suppliers of goods or services (the sellers) who will remit this tax to the revenue authorities. The suppliers of goods or services are considered the "taxable person" for VAT purposes although the tax is paid by the customer.

And if I, an American, purchase it in the EU and bring it to the U.S. I get a refund. So how can it be a tariff if I'm getting it at least partially refunded???

 

[Mreader]

I can't find support for that and if it's charged at each state of production, then it's being paid along the way, and then the end consumer pays it. When I looked it up I found this:

Value Added Tax (VAT) is a consumption tax that is applied to nearly all goods and services that are bought and sold for use or consumption in the EU.

The EU has standard rules on VAT, but these rules may be applied differently in each EU country. In most cases, you have to pay VAT on all goods and services at all stages of the supply chain including the sale to the final consumer. This includes from the beginning to the end of a production process, e.g. buying components, transport, assembly, provisions, packaging, insurance and shipping to the final consumer.

VAT isn't charged on exports of goods to countries outside the EU.
Also this from:

How does VAT work?

What is VAT and how does it work

taxation-customs.ec.europa.eu

• an indirect tax as it is collected from customers (the buyers) as part of the price paid to their suppliers of goods or services (the sellers) who will remit this tax to the revenue authorities. The suppliers of goods or services are considered the "taxable person" for VAT purposes although the tax is paid by the customer.

And if I, an American, purchase it in the EU and bring it to the U.S. I get a refund. So how can it be a tariff if I'm getting it refunded??? I'm not paying anything.

You don’t get it all. In France the VAT is about 20% and you can get about 12 back. Plus you have to go to the airport and hope there’s someone working the desk to stamp your paperwork and it all has to happen before your flight lol.

 

[Lookinagain]

You don’t get it all. In France the VAT is about 20% and you can get about 12 back. Plus you have to go to the airport and hope there’s someone working the desk to stamp your paperwork and it all has to happen before your flight lol.

Yes, I know but I still don't view it as a "tariff". It's more like a national sales tax for the country imposing it. I guess I shouldn't have said I'm not paying "anything" as I'm paying a portion of it. I'll change that. But since the locals pay the entire thing, and I don't , it really doesn't seem to be a "tariff".

as a side note, I've never had a problem finding the refund desk and getting a stamp. Maybe it's the airport but at CDG I've always been able to get the stamp. But it can be a pain to have to show them what you bought.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

How about a simple plan where no extra cost is added to an imported product from any country worldwide, whether is a tax, tariff or VAT? That would be fair to everyone involved.

 

[Lookinagain]

How about a simple plan where no extra cost is added to an imported product from any country worldwide, whether is a tax, tariff or VAT? That would be fair to everyone involved.

That will be the day. They are main sources of revenue.

 

[Rockdiamond]

How about a simple plan where no extra cost is added to an imported product from any country worldwide, whether is a tax, tariff or VAT? That would be fair to everyone involved.

Asking respectfully......wouldn't that be like a "global government"?
Trying to equalize Uganda or other third world countries with the US, Europe and Western nations?
In theory, if there were worldwide equality of wealth, sounds great.......but the reality seems to be different regions need different solutions.

 

[Tartansparkles]

I'm the the UK, as a consumer mostly everything I purchase includes VAT at the rate of 20%. The price advertised includes the VAT, so if a T-shirt is advertised at 19.99, you pay 19.99 and somewhere on the receipt it will show that the 19.99 included 3.99 of VAT. Children's clothing has zero VAT added and things like gas and electricity for your home are charged at 5% iirc.

When I purchased my ring and bracelet from WF I paid the ticket price to WF. When the items arrived in the UK I had to pay the 20% VAT plus 5% duty and import tax. Since the 20% is set by the UK gov and gets paid to the UK gov I don't quite understand how VAT fits in with the tariff situation.

As the owner of a business I pay VAT on the things I purchase and I must add VAT to the things I sell. At the end of each month I either owe the VAT man or he pays me a refund, depending on the difference in VAT amounts between what was bought and sold.

 

[Avondale]

Yes, imported goods from the United States every single country that is not a member of the EU or the EEA are subject to Value Added Tax (VAT) when entering the European Union.

Fixed it for you.

The US is not special.

The US is on the same level playing field as the UK, Russia, China, India, Pakistan and Uganda. You are all not members of either the EU or the EEA. It's not a negative preferential treatment against you. The same rules apply to everybody.

How about a simple plan where no extra cost is added to an imported product from any country worldwide, whether is a tax, tariff or VAT? That would be fair to everyone involved.

That is very obviously not feasible economically even to a person who's had a rocky relationship with economics for basically forever such as myself.



VAT in the EU is more or less the equivalent of sales tax in the US. Only VAT is clearly defined everywhere, is already included in the price presented to consumers, and is higher.

 

[Starstruck8]

The US is not special.

The US is on the same level playing field as the UK, Russia, China, India, Pakistan and Uganda. You are all not members of either the EU or the EEA. It's not a negative preferential treatment against you. The same rules apply to everybody.

I'm in Australia. If (as I understand it) VAT is like our GST (Goods and Services Tax), it is even less discriminatory than you imply. GST is a tax on final consumption. It applies just as much to goods and services produced entirely in Australia as to imported goods and services. If diamonds were mined and processed in Australia, they would attract just the same GST as imported diamonds. It's nonsense to suggest that GST is a tariff, or anything like it.

But the threats of tariff war don't have to make sense. They are a bully's claim to the lion's share. The lion can use any bogus pretext he likes, because, well, he's the lion.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

I understand what you are saying, Tartansparkles, but why can't the USA collect the same fees here when things are received from other countries?

For it to be equal in relationship to purchases we should be collecting VAT, import and duty fees on everything purchased outside the USA that is imported here. The extra fees you pay because you're using products produced in the USA is why there is an attempt to level the playing fields. We're less apt to purchase items from other countries if we are additional hit with VAT, import fees and duties as you are.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

Asking respectfully......wouldn't that be like a "global government"?
Trying to equalize Uganda or other third world countries with the US, Europe and Western nations?
In theory, if there were worldwide equality of wealth, sounds great.......but the reality seems to be different regions need different solutions.

Lol, no I'm not indicating a global government. More like I'm promoting common sense between countries and no one should be dumping products in another nation in an attempt to close industries in those nations.

I know.. good luck with common sense.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

I'm in Australia. If (as I understand it) VAT is like our GST (Goods and Services Tax), it is even less discriminatory than you imply. GST is a tax on final consumption. It applies just as much to goods and services produced entirely in Australia as to imported goods and services. If diamonds were mined and processed in Australia, they would attract just the same GST as imported diamonds. It's nonsense to suggest that GST is a tariff, or anything like it.

But the threats of tariff war don't have to make sense. They are a bully's claim to the lion's share. The lion can use any bogus pretext he likes, because, well, he's the lion.

The lion's share... not quite. This country hands so much out to other countries even though we are trillions in debt and truly in danger of losing our money's value if this ship isn't righted. We need to shed the Santa Claus image and only deal with true, acute humanitarian needs.

Heaven forbid, if Australia came under attack by enemy forces, who do you think would rush to provide protection and armed forces to help save your country? The United States would rush to assist without hesitation. This aid to other countries helps deplete the coffers but it is the type of help we are known for and will continue.

 

[Rockdiamond]

it to be equal in relationship to purchases we should be collecting VAT, import and duty fees on everything purchased outside the USA that is imported here.

This is an additional tax on US consumers…. Do you want to start paying VAT? Who do you think it’s “collected” from?
Hypothetically- say India is putting Tariffs on US goods. Say we retaliate. Put a tariff on all Indian imports. That’ll show’em…..
Except now every diamond we sell becomes more expensive to buy. We, as the seller can’t absorb the increase- so we’d need to increase the price of diamonds.
I don’t see how that stops India from continuing to charge tariffs on US goods. The US currently has the world’s strongest economy. By far. And have for a long while. Along earnestly ….How have the tariffs hurt us?

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

Fixed it for you.

The US is not special.

The US is on the same level playing field as the UK, Russia, China, India, Pakistan and Uganda. You are all not members of either the EU or the EEA. It's not a negative preferential treatment against you. The same rules apply to everybody.



That is very obviously not feasible economically even to a person who's had a rocky relationship with economics for basically forever such as myself.



VAT in the EU is more or less the equivalent of sales tax in the US. Only VAT is clearly defined everywhere, is already included in the price presented to consumers, and is higher.

You fixed it for AI, lol.

 

[Avondale]

For it to be equal in relationship to purchases we should be collecting VAT

Do you want to be paying VAT? Because that's how you end up collecting it from imports - by paying it for everything.

 

[Tartansparkles]

I understand what you are saying, Tartansparkles, but why can't the USA collect the same fees here when things are received from other countries?

For it to be equal in relationship to purchases we should be collecting VAT, import and duty fees on everything purchased outside the USA that is imported here. The extra fees you pay because you're using products produced in the USA is why there is an attempt to level the playing fields. We're less apt to purchase items from other countries if we are additional hit with VAT, import fees and duties as you are.

I'm not saying you shouldn't, I just wanted to clarify that based on my understanding that tariffs and VAT/GST are two separate things.

If country A imposes tariffs of say 20% I imagine that means that the residents of that country are now paying 20% more but will still also pay whatever government taxes are added on top. (And if I'm being cynical I imagine that the amount of tax collected is increased because the product now costs more).

I think tarrifs just end up costing the consumer more, regardless of where they are located.

I'm not sure that the VAT question is as important because it's levied at the individual based on the items that they personally choose to buy overseas and bring into their country. If we take pearls for example, I could be wrong but I think the posters in the pearl forum do pay taxes when the pearls arrive in the US. I'm sure those amounts (the amount of tax/duty paid on individual purchases) will be miniscule compared to tariffs on steel or cars etc, but it still it makes it more expensive for the individual consumer.

And a last thought, if I buy diamond jewellery from the US, it's because the price and quality are (way) better than the diamonds available to me in the UK, so in this instance the relationship favours the US (not that my diamond buying will have much of an impact on your economy!).

 

[kenny]

We are being scammed by politicians and governments.
Taxes (renamed anything other than "taxes") are a scam.

By inventing another fake name, politicians aren't blamed as they would be if they were called what they really are ... which is taxes.

 

[Tigerlilyrosepetal]

I’m really sad that I read some of this thread. I feel like there’s an interestingly higher than expected (for me) degree of America-bashing and it saddens me. It’s always sad to see the ugly side of people. Just my own observation. I’ll go back to looking at the pretties and still be PROUD as hell that I’m an American.

 

[kenny]

America has used it's power to manipulate the world, so Americans get more, better and cheaper everything.
We're at the top of the food chain.
Nice for us, bad for others.

Not fair.
Not nice.

All of earth's 8,160,620,783 humans would love to be one of God's chosen people, aka God's Blessed Americans.

All humans want more and better for themselves and their children.
Look at history, the rich and powerful got that way be being, let's say, not so nice, and, let's say, not sharing.

The war for more will never stop.

 

[kenny]

... I’ll go back to looking at the pretties and still be PROUD as hell that I’m an American.

I'm GLAD as hell for myself I'm an American, but also ashamed as hell that the richer we Americans get the poorer the rest of earth's humans get.

But I admit that I'm a hypocrite because I'm not giving away my wealth.
Therein lies the problem with humans ... selfishness.
We're all selfish, and we all fart.

 

[missy]

America has used it's power to manipulate the world, so Americans get more better and cheaper everything.
Nice for us, bad for others.

Not fair.
Not nice.

All of earth's 8,160,620,783 humans would love to be one of God's chosen people, aka Americans.

All humans want more and better for themselves and their children.
Look at history, the rich and powerful got that way be being, let's say, not so nice, and, let's say, not sharing.

The war for more will never stop.

Kenny there’s an element of truth in what you wrote, but it’s too reductive. To the point of making it false.

I’m really sad that I read some of this thread. I feel like there’s an interestingly higher than expected (for me) degree of America-bashing and it saddens me. It’s always sad to see the ugly side of people. Just my own observation. I’ll go back to looking at the pretties and still be PROUD as hell that I’m an American.

Yes, unfortunately the PS POV is lopsided. Hardly unbiased.
I know it can be challenging to see all sides of a situation but it feels as if many PSers don’t even try.

 

[Matata]

I feel like there’s an interestingly higher than expected (for me) degree of America-bashing and it saddens me.

“To criticize one's country is to do it a service... Criticism, in short, is more than a right; it is an act of patriotism--a higher form of patriotism, I believe, than the familiar rituals and national adulation.”​

― J. William Fulbright (Senator)

Veterans are being thrown under the bus due to the commander in chief's (who thinks injured military personnel are "losers") mandatory efficiency reductions. That is not something of which I'm proud and which I will criticize and I definitely agree with you that those reduction efforts show the ugly side of people toward those who have risked their lives for the safety of us all.

"The Department of Veterans Affairs **edited by moderator, no links to political articles ** late Thursday night that it has let go of more than 1,000 probationary employees this week.

For every four employees who leave, only one can be replaced. For an already understaffed VA, this is a disaster. Veterans’ medical care, disability claims, and support services depend on an adequate workforce. Slashing hiring ensures growing backlogs, worsening care, and increased suffering for those who rely on VA services. With an aging veteran population and an expanded VA mission under previous administrations, now is the time to invest in the VA, not gut it.

...executive order **edited by moderator, no links to political articles ** it also forces immediate reductions in force, cutting positions that aren’t explicitly mandated by law. This means administrative staff, veteran outreach programs, and transition assistance services will be among the first to go. These programs provide critical support for transitioning service members, veterans seeking jobs, and military families overseas. Many depend on these programs for child care, job placement, and legal guidance — services that help make the transition from military to civilian life possible. **edited by moderator, no links to political articles **

To make matters worse, the hiring process at the VA is now controlled by DOGE “team leads,” who have final approval over new employees. Instead of a merit-based system, hiring decisions are now subject to unnecessary delays and potential political interference. Some of these so-called team leads do not appear to have any government experience, and are instead young political operatives...

The VA is already grappling with a severe workforce shortage in medical and benefits processing roles.

This new bureaucratic bottleneck ensures hiring will stall completely, leaving veterans without the services they need. But that may be the point — by making the VA so dysfunctional, veterans will either suffer in silence or be forced into the private sector, where profits come before care.

**edited by moderator, no links to political articles **