Have a pretty large budget for a sapphire e-ring, can''t decide whether to buy already made or custo

[RebeccaMUA]

Thank you for the true and honest replies everyone! While I too thought that $10,000-ish was enough to buy a top quality stone, I realize that it really isn''t.

I spoke to my boyfriend last night over dinner and he agreed about going with Jeff seeing as everyone has highly recommended him and the pictures of the stones he has done are just drool-worthy.

As far as the picture I posted, I realize now that it really does have violet in it. That was partly my fault though because I saw and posted the picture of the stone (I posted more but the board was freaking out)from my laptop, not from my correctly calibrated downstairs monitor and when I looked at it again this morning from the "good" monitor, it''s a TOTALLY different color than my laptop monitor shows.

The bright side of seeing the Jeff White stones on my downstairs monitor was WOW! I love them even more than when I saw them on my laptop

Chrono, I agree that finding a loose stone I love will be my better option. I have scoured the internet for the best part of the week and I can only find a handful of pre-made rings I like (not LOVE) so you all have helped me confirm that aspect.

Tourmaline_Lover, thank you SO much for the specifics. Again, I would never have know to ask those questions! (I''m such a n00b it''s quite frankly embarrassing).

Someone mentioned possibly getting a smaller stone that has a wider face that''s a shallower cut than just going for carat size. I think that''s an excellent idea. I guess what I want is a stone that will look substantial enough on my 6 1/2 size finger, lol. My fingers are not exactly what I would call "delicate"

Vinkalmann, WOW

you aren''t kidding!

Arjunajane, yes please post pictures! I want to see as many JW pics as I can. His current gallery is such a tease with only a few blue sapphires


You are all just such a great bunch I feel so lucky to have such great information kindly thrown my way. Thanks again!

 

[RebeccaMUA]

Tourmaline_Lover, I await replies to your question with bated breath. What exactly is diffusion? If my boyfriend and I do decide to scour L.A.''s jewelry district for shiggles, is that a question I should be asking or will a certification clear that up?

 

[EMPTorres]

I don''t post very often but have you seen the beautiful sapphire ring Ercia Grace has for sale?? It is well below your budget..

http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.com/Jewelry/Modern-and-Estate-Pieces/430-Cushion-Cut-Sapphire-Ring/11651839_bD9nL#821637791_aaSXD

 

[chrono]

http://lgdl.gia.edu/pdfs/su03a1.pdf
This is probably more information that you’ll ever need to understand about beryllium lattice diffusion but the short answer is that it is essentially a very good dyeing method that goes through the entire stone and is permanent. The hang up with this treatment is that it isn’t always disclosed and the stone, while is still a natural and real sapphire, is no longer as natural since it has been tampered with.

 

[T L]

Unless you have a surface diffused stone and you cut it in half, it is my understanding (and again, I could be wrong) that only a highly equipped lab can determine if a stone is diffused. If diffusion goes all the way into the stone as some of the new treatments, well, then cutting it wouldn't indicate any difference. The reason I bring up treatments so much in these threads is that sapphires are amongst the most unscrupulously treated gems, they are dyed to many different colors, and this decreases their value tremendously. If there is some definitive way to pick out a non be-diffused stone by eye, or by loupe, I would certainly love to know. At a gem show, where some of these dealers pick out their stones, the only thing they typically have is a loupe, so if you're buying a stone without certification, you run the risk of getting a diffused stone, or a synthetic one.

 

[T L]

Rebecca,
I recently obtained this 2.59 carat Madagascar sapphire pear from a vendor I regularly deal with. He was out of Asia, so he sent it to one of the most reputable labs there, the AIGS. It came back with an enhancement code of HT, which on the lab's website indicates gentle heat only. Gently heated sapphires are a far more accepted treatment done to these stones in order to make the color better. No surface diffusion or otherwise is done to make the stone a particular hue. While far from top color, it was pleasing to my eye, and I liked the medium light tone. You may want to contact a vendor that can obtain the appropriate paperwork from a reputable lab. I certainly would for any e-ring stone I would potentially buy.

 

[delayedreaction]

Date: 5/19/2010 1:35:37 PM
Author: RebeccaMUA
Someone mentioned possibly getting a smaller stone that has a wider face that's a shallower cut than just going for carat size. I think that's an excellent idea. I guess what I want is a stone that will look substantial enough on my 6 1/2 size finger, lol. My fingers are not exactly what I would call 'delicate'

While it's not a sapphire, if you look at the 4th picture down in this thread, you'll see a 9.7x8.5mm blue spinel on a size 10 finger. (And I have certified guy hands.) My pinky is a size 7, and (I'm trying this right now), you'll end up with excellent finger coverage (even without the added sparkle from a halo) with plenty of presence.

As for Jeff's material, I believe he works with several Sri Lankan sources in trading centers to obtain his roughs/material.

I can't wait to see what they come up with for you--especially since next year I'm going to put myself on the list for an asscher sapphire from Jeff.

 

[T L]

Date: 5/19/2010 3:35:55 PM
Author: delayedreaction

Date: 5/19/2010 1:35:37 PM

Author: RebeccaMUA

Someone mentioned possibly getting a smaller stone that has a wider face that's a shallower cut than just going for carat size. I think that's an excellent idea. I guess what I want is a stone that will look substantial enough on my 6 1/2 size finger, lol. My fingers are not exactly what I would call 'delicate'

While it's not a sapphire, if you look at the 4th picture down in this thread, you'll see a 9.7x8.5mm blue spinel on a size 10 finger. (And I have certified guy hands.) My pinky is a size 7, and (I'm trying this right now), you'll end up with excellent finger coverage (even without the added sparkle from a halo) with plenty of presence.


As for Jeff's material, I believe he works with several Sri Lankan sources in trading centers to obtain his roughs/material.


I can't wait to see what they come up with for you--especially since next year I'm going to put myself on the list for an asscher sapphire from Jeff.

I still wouldn't trust that since look at the synthetic padparadscha debacle that occurred recently on this board with a well known and trusted vendor, who had supposedly trusted sources. He ended up sending the "trusted" stone to a lab being the good vendor he is, and it came back synthetic!! While I do think it is good to trust some dealers, and Jeff is certainly someone many people trust, I would like verification as well.

 

[chrono]

I am of the belief that any high priced gemstone should be accompanied by a lab cert/memo to be sure it is what it is (including the treatment level or lack of treatment). It just makes good sense when one is spending thousands of dollars on a single gemstone.

 

[delayedreaction]

Oh I would still send it to a reputable lab for testing-I even sent that spinel to AGL and it was just a fun stone. Isn''t the unofficial motto "Trust but verify"?

 

[T L]

Date: 5/19/2010 3:44:33 PM
Author: delayedreaction
Oh I would still send it to a reputable lab for testing-I even sent that spinel to AGL and it was just a fun stone. Isn''t the unofficial motto ''Trust but verify''?

Yes, it is, as long as the they get a proper laboratory certification, and I hope you get one for your asscher. Again, I would want the seller to do that for the customer, even at extra cost. I think it''s a reasonable request when someone is spending a great deal on a gem.

 

[Spirit]

another big vote for a Jeff White re-cut sapphire!

 

[vinkalmann]

Date: 5/19/2010 1:08:35 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Thanks Vinkalmann,

Will they obtain a third party cert if you request one for an additional fee? I don''t like having the responsibility of sending the stone to the lab myself, I rather the vendor did it.

Hey there, I didn''t know the answer to this so I asked. At the customer''s request, they will get a 3rd party lab evaluation at no charge for stones that are 1 ct and above. For whatever reason they ask that the customer see the stone first after it''s certified before it''s purchased. I guess that''s so people aren''t buying based on the cert alone? I''m not sure.

In the case of my current project (wedding bands) this wouldn''t benefit me since my stone is only .6 ct, but it''s a pretty good deal for larger stones.

 

[soberguy]

TL- not that this is a "be all end all" example, but Be does seem to cause some inclusions that can be id''d, however, I think that is only the case if the original stone had inclusions to begin with...??? Anyone know?

http://www.apsara.co.uk/content/view/12/1

 

[RebeccaMUA]

Chrono- Thank you very much for the link. It can''t hurt to educate myself too much, right?

Delayedreaction-Thank you thank you thank you for the stone dimension and size comparison. I was looking for a measuring tape but you helped me out so much by giving me a visual along with the gem dimensions p.s. I love your gems and the ring!

Tourmaline _lover and Chrono- You two bring up excellent points. It''s worth every penny to make sure the stone is what it is said (and sold) to be when spending so much on it. And tourmaline_lover, that sapphire is so sparkly!
And the pear shape makes it so unique.

 

[movie zombie]

you have a good budget to work with: i'd 90% or more of the $ into the color stone which is the star of your e-ring. it is the color stone that is going to make the e-ring sing. the difference between a well cut and colored sapphire is breathtaking. if you must do a halo, i'd minimize it so that your color stone really stands out. that richard wise sapphire is a stunner!

mz

ps yes, i'd source this rather than buy "already made".

eta: call richard: he has lots in his vault that never makes it onto his website. he's fun to talk to and is a sapphire guru. i bought my spess from him w/o having ever met him or traveling cross country to his store: the modern age of telecommunications, internet, credit cards and online banking do have their advantages at times!

 

[soberguy]

Here is another Richard Wise sapphire that knocked my socks off! Give him a call and see what he says ; )

http://rwwise.com/products/id%7C1707

 

[T L]

If you do obtain a sapphire and want it recut, I don''t know if Jeff will recut other people''s gems other than he sources himself, but this is also another excellent lapidary, and he''s quite affordable for recuts. My best cut gem in my collection is from him. I was thinking of sourcing another sapphire myself, or a spinel and having him do the recut. His work is amazing.

http://www.gemartservices.com/about.htm

 

[T L]

Date: 5/19/2010 11:17:05 PM
Author: soberguy
TL- not that this is a ''be all end all'' example, but Be does seem to cause some inclusions that can be id''d, however, I think that is only the case if the original stone had inclusions to begin with...??? Anyone know?


http://www.apsara.co.uk/content/view/12/1

Good question. Thanks for the link Soberguy. I hope someone chimes in about this. A lab would really rule out diffusion that a gemologist in a traditional lab might miss. I believe they use a machine that determines if beryllium was added to the chemical composition. Again, I hope someone chimes in about this, because I would really like to know.

 

[SB621]

If I remember correctly and I could be wrong here Jeff did get a certification for one of the sapphires that a PS member bought at their request...but really bottom line.... Jeff is a stand up guy so if you buy something from him and it turns out to not be 100% correct he would let you return it without any hassle. He is that type of person and that is why so many people recommend him. Several famous rings on PS are from him and I know that is something were wrong with any of those sapphires we would have heard about it by now. I would just ask Jeff about the certification and see what he says.

 

[T L]

Date: 5/20/2010 7:29:28 AM
Author: Sarahbear621
If I remember correctly and I could be wrong here Jeff did get a certification for one of the sapphires that a PS member bought at their request...but really bottom line.... Jeff is a stand up guy so if you buy something from him and it turns out to not be 100% correct he would let you return it without any hassle. He is that type of person and that is why so many people recommend him. Several famous rings on PS are from him and I know that is something were wrong with any of those sapphires we would have heard about it by now. I would just ask Jeff about the certification and see what he says.

Thanks Sarah.
That's good. I think this should go for any vendor. I personally would not buy from a vendor that didn't offer the option of obtaining a third party reputable lab certificate through him/her for an expensive gem. With any vendor, Jeff White, Richard Wise, John Doe, you should ask for that option.

If a vendor tries to tip toe around that and starts telling you, "well I know it's natural because . . . [insert some excuse here]," than avoid that vendor.

 

[movie zombie]

your budget is high enough to not need to buy a stone that needs to be recut. you might still decide to to it but i''m not a fan of recutting unless one is on a limited budget and trying to make a less than ideal stone better. with your budget you can shop around until you find "the stone" that is unheated and does not need to be recut.

mz

ps again, do not cut corners on the sapphire: get the best stone your budget will allow. it will pay off in the long run. and for the price you''d be paying for a sapphire with good attributes, yes, a legit certificate would be in order.

 

[LostSapphire]

Date: 5/20/2010 7:29:28 AM
Author: Sarahbear621
If I remember correctly and I could be wrong here Jeff did get a certification for one of the sapphires that a PS member bought at their request...but really bottom line.... Jeff is a stand up guy so if you buy something from him and it turns out to not be 100% correct he would let you return it without any hassle. He is that type of person and that is why so many people recommend him. Several famous rings on PS are from him and I know that is something were wrong with any of those sapphires we would have heard about it by now. I would just ask Jeff about the certification and see what he says.

The BLUEBERRY has papers, but they were the cert prior to the re-cut. I believe someone else had him re-cert their stone after cutting...just can''t remember who it was.

LS

 

[RebeccaMUA]

Movie Zombie- I did contact Richard and he pointed me to a 3.31 carat stone and a 4.1 carat. The 4.1 was slightly out of our budget and I asked how much the 3.31 carat one was and he has yet to get back to me.This was on the 17th. Should I post a pic of the 3.31 carat stone?

Soberguy-That color is just SOOO beautiful!

Tourmaline_Lover- Thanks so much for the link! Question: when people say "BE treatment" is that the beryllium treatment you mentioned?

SarahBear-Once Jeff gets back to me, I will certainly ask him about certification.

Lost Sapphire- Is "The Blueberry" your sapphires name? It''s a perfect one if it is!

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 5/20/2010 10:02:52 AM
Author: movie zombie

your budget is high enough to not need to buy a stone that needs to be recut. you might still decide to to it but i''m not a fan of recutting unless one is on a limited budget and trying to make a less than ideal stone better. with your budget you can shop around until you find ''the stone'' that is unheated and does not need to be recut.

mz

ps again, do not cut corners on the sapphire: get the best stone your budget will allow. it will pay off in the long run. and for the price you''d be paying for a sapphire with good attributes, yes, a legit certificate would be in order.

MZ,
I do not see re-cutting of blue sapphires as a "budget" option, or a question of budget at all.
It is about the availability (or lack of) suitable rough to US cutters, and the fact that many many of these stones which otherwise have lovely colour, have average to un-attractive cutting.

 

[ma re]

I already replied to this thread with a lenghty post, but due to technical difficulties experienced recently with the new version of the forum, it''s not shown here. So I''ll just add a few points I think are worth mentioning.

- BE treatment is beryllium treatment; the main issue with these kinds of treatments is that they lessen the degree of rarity of your stone i.e. a beryllium treated stone is thousands of times less rare than a natural stone of comparable quality; this treatment doesen''t influence durability as far as I know, so that''s not a concern, but it makes the stone much less valuable (due to decreased rarity, and since rarity = desirability (to some extent) = market demand) so it must be disclosed and the stone properly priced.

- I wouldn''t go the recutting route, cause some bad things can happen during the process (like, major damage to the stone), not because the cutter doesen''t know his work, but because accidents do happen even if we know what we''re doing; I probably wouldn''t sleep very well if I was to submit a stone worth a substantial amount for recutting (but that''s just me, it''s your call).

- Certify, certify, certify.

 

[chrono]

Ma Re has explained the reason why BE (beryllium) diffusion is frowned upon by the market, collectors and most consumers. It’s fine though if it is stated upfront, priced less accordingly and the buyer understands and accepts it. I, too, will avoid the recut route for the same reason. It can be a risky endeavor and your budget is large enough for you to not have to choose this option.

In fact, getting a recut stone for you is even more limiting. If you want a 4 ct sapphire, your native cut stone probably has to be around 5 ct to begin with. Add that you want fine colour, it is going to be difficult to find one in such a large size and if you do, it’ll be quite expensive. There’s a good reason why many large and fine sapphires are left as native cut stones; there is too much material wastage and loss of value in trimming them into a precision cut stone.

 

[T L]

Date: 5/21/2010 2:52:06 AM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 5/20/2010 10:02:52 AM

Author: movie zombie

your budget is high enough to not need to buy a stone that needs to be recut. you might still decide to to it but i''m not a fan of recutting unless one is on a limited budget and trying to make a less than ideal stone better. with your budget you can shop around until you find ''the stone'' that is unheated and does not need to be recut.

mz

ps again, do not cut corners on the sapphire: get the best stone your budget will allow. it will pay off in the long run. and for the price you''d be paying for a sapphire with good attributes, yes, a legit certificate would be in order.

MZ,

I do not see re-cutting of blue sapphires as a ''budget'' option, or a question of budget at all.

It is about the availability (or lack of) suitable rough to US cutters, and the fact that many many of these stones which otherwise have lovely colour, have average to un-attractive cutting.

I agree AJJ,

Actually, I think it would be more costly to buy a recut than a native cut because you''re paying a premium for a cut stone chosen by a choice lapadary. He''s a middleman in the situation, and the more middlemen you have, the more the price goes up.

I prefer to buy my sapphires from Asia because the certification is much less expensive, and there''s less middlemen.

Question about Jeff recuts to anyone who has had them.
Jeff does choose his own sapphires for recutting, so if you want a recut stone, does he takes responsibility for the recut if the stone is damaged or doesn''t cut close to a pre-estimated carat weight? Is there a non-refundable deposit?

 

[T L]

Rebecca,
AJSgems.com is a very repuatable online firm that is in Asia. I would ask if they can certify a gem, but they have a large selection of some very nice sapphires, and their photos are very true to life. If you're on a budget, this is a good firm to look at. Some of the Madagascar sapphires are on par with some of the most lovely Ceylons I've seen. Although $13K is a nice sum of money, you want to get the most for that money.

Ask about zoning, color in various lighting, and certification.

 

[chrono]

TL,
I may be able to answer your question but this was about 3 years ago and I had 2 recuts done; one which I kept and another (matched pair) which I did not. Jeff selects the re-cut stone candidate and sends pictures to be sure everyone is in agreement with using that stone. If so, he takes responsibility for the stone if it is damaged or not as expected. From my experience, he always under guesstimates to give himself that extra margin. Yes, there is a non-refundable deposit involved. It is a set percentage of the final sale price.