He''s Just Not That Into You? some thoughts...

[Pushin40]

I totally hear you, and I know what it''s like to want kids. I wanted to be married and have kids when I was younger, in my 20''s. I didn''t find my soul mate until I met B when I was 31, so it just didn''t happen for me, and I''m fine with that. I''m so thankful I didn''t go that route when I could have - I would undoubtedly be a divorced single mother now. I can see that pretty clearly, looking back. I thoguht I had it all, but I had NOOOOO idea! UHG!!

I think it''s good that you know what you want, and if that''s kids, then you will need to do what you need to do! By no means should he string you along. You say your clock is ticking so that is a major factor here.

I guess part of my point is: if its 6 months or a year longer than what you''re thinking, would you really be able (or want to) walk away from the man who you already KNOW you want to father your children? His timeliine is just as important as yours, as is self respect for himself too. There are 2 of you in this relationship.

Personally, I think you may owe it to him and yourself, to have a deiscussion specificaly about the timeline. It''s only fair to the two of you - and 2 people who want to get married really need to be able to communicate their desires and thier feelings. That''s part of a sucessful marriage/relationship right there.

Do you know what I mean?

 

[ringless]

It is really neat to see everyone's different views on this topic. I have to agree with most of the girls on here... it is a timing issue. I am waiting b/c I'm "one of the girls" who has been told by my FF, that he is waiting until he is financially stable enough, graduated from college, etc. I honestly respect him a lot for that decision and know it's not a bunch of bologna. When he said that he wanted to wait for financial reasons it all made sense. Why on earth would we start our lives out together broke, still in school, fighting over money, wanting a decent wedding... and still trying to find our careers, etc. It really all seems like too much too soon to rush into something one of us isn't ready for. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with getting engaged when people are in school or aren't financially stable, but those are just things I believe can cause a lot of tension in a relationship if not dealt with beforehand... When I got my dog with my income tax money a few years back and he told me not to do it, of course I did it anyway, and when I showed him my new dog he didn't accept her right away and sorta resented me for making the decision on my own. I will not ever do something like that again....It felt horrible knowing he didn't accept the idea (and her), and I dont want that feeling when we get engaged. I know you can't really compare the two, but the feeling was aweful. I want us to both be on the same page, so to speak. I believe you just have to wait some things out and that not everything happens when we are ready, and it's definitley not healthy to be in a "yes dear, whatever you want" relationship. It takes comprimise of course, you can't wait around forever and there has to be a discussion on how long you're willing to wait, etc. but for me, I choose to wait until he is financially stable enough and when we are BOTH completely ready.

On a positive note.. this weekend my FF is graduating, which is ONE step closer to getting engaged! He already has a job and has already started making good money. I am very excited! We are going to the Keys next weekend to celebrate...

 

[cutiegirl84]

As someone in a relationship for almost 7 years (I''m 24), as much as waiting sucks, I wouldn''t leave my BF just because i''ve been waiting. Maybe i''m weird but since I know this man is "the one" for me I wouldn''t leave just because he is taking a little longer than I''d like to propose. Furthermore, I want a nice ring and only 1 ring. I want a nice wedding and only 1 wedding, and i want a nice house (maybe a few of those . Yeah maybe I knew when I was 20 that I''d marry him, but I wouldn''t have said "yes" when I was 20.

I just think that with the crazy statistics of 1 in 2 marriages ending in divorce, is it really so bad to wait a little longer and be sure that the man you marry is the only man you ever marry? It is supposed to be "forever". and I want to get married when Both of us are ready and not just because I pressured him into marrying me on my timetable. Marriage is a serious commitment and is supposed to be a partnership; not just giving into one person''s desires every time.

And although I don''t want to have kids personally, for those of you that do, why would you want to get married just to have kids just to end up divorced because you rushed everything and it wasn''t right? I''m not aiming this at anyone in particular but just my general .02.

 

[Bia]

The reason many of us feel differently is because we are not all feeling the pressures you feel. The baby timeline, for me anyway, is not an issue right now. The marriage thing has only become one in the last 6 months, and because we are both ready, it is now happening for US. You seem to be concerned about what your family thinks a lot. I encourage you to ask your boyfriend rather than keeping him in the dark about your timeline because he might not know that the clock is ticking for him (or you). That, IMO, is unfair to him. People, men especially, are not mind readers (Did the book mention that men can't always read between the lines like we can) and need to told rather than expected to know.

I also, encourage you to stop defining us by your standards. I especially do not see myself as a woman who is angry, or excessively anxious but more so excited and someone who is anticipating the next chapter in her life...so don't get ahead of yourself. I can't speak for everyone, but this is how I feel. Although, my biological clock isn't ticking at all (you and I are the same age)...but in your "timeline" your clock might be, so in that respect I can understand your dilemma.

Also, while the theory behind that book is smart, it is not the be-all-end-all of relationships. It is an idea those two authors have. I have read bits and pieces of that book and I don't recall the author singling out marriage but more so, how and why certain relationships don't ever start or progress, or lead to marriage. If you feel that you need to give him a timeline, that's your prerogative and I respect your choice to do that however, it would be fair to share with him what you are thinking, as you are both in this relationship.

One more thing: His decision to wait shouldn't take priority over your decision to marry and have kids...either should your desire to marry now and have kids take precedence over his desire to make the best choices for him, and the life he wants to have with you.

Just don't forget about him in this whole process, is what I am saying.

 

[KCCutie]

Date: 4/29/2008 2:39:30 PM
Author: Pushin40
I totally hear you, and I know what it''s like to want kids. I wanted to be married and have kids when I was younger, in my 20''s. I didn''t find my soul mate until I met B when I was 31, so it just didn''t happen for me, and I''m fine with that. I''m so thankful I didn''t go that route when I could have - I would undoubtedly be a divorced single mother now. I can see that pretty clearly, looking back. I thoguht I had it all, but I had NOOOOO idea! UHG!!


I think it''s good that you know what you want, and if that''s kids, then you will need to do what you need to do! By no means should he string you along. You say your clock is ticking so that is a major factor here.


I guess part of my point is: if its 6 months or a year longer than what you''re thinking, would you really be able (or want to) walk away from the man who you already KNOW you want to father your children? His timeliine is just as important as yours, as is self respect for himself too. There are 2 of you in this relationship.


Personally, I think you may owe it to him and yourself, to have a deiscussion specificaly about the timeline. It''s only fair to the two of you - and 2 people who want to get married really need to be able to communicate their desires and thier feelings. That''s part of a sucessful marriage/relationship right there.


Do you know what I mean?

I totally agree! I''ve been reading this whole thread and following along.

I understand you want to have kids. I''m in the same boat only I''ll be 31 in a few weeks. I know you hate to hear this b/c I hated it 5 years ago, but seriously honey you have time! If you know for a fact that he''s the man you want to marry and have kids with and he has said he sees himself married to you and having a family with you then why would you walk away from that? What if you do walk away from it and never find another man like him? I wouldn''t take that chance.

I''ve been with my SO for 1 year and 11 months. Recently we had a talk about where things were going and to tell you the truth he had no idea I had a time line and was so glad I told him. The last thing he ever wanted was to lose me b/c he waited too long without even knowing he had. Growing up I always thought I''d be married before I turned 30 and that ideal was hard to give up, but boy an I glad things have worked out like they have. I have never felt about any other man the way I feel about my SO I know he''s the one and within reason I was prepared to wait. Give your guy a chance! You can''t expect him to read your mind.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I don't mean to hog this thread, but I just want to tell you that I do understand and agree with you, Laila.

Look, it's not easy to be the one who wants marriage and also be the one who walks away. I made 3 (!!) internal deadlines before walking away. That's why I didn't share my timeline with my boyfriend, though we had created one before moving in together, but he wasn't sticking to it. I wanted to make sure I was completely ready and knew I had given it everything I had before I left. When the last deadline past, I finally felt ready. He asked for more time (a month) when I told him I was leaving, but the pressure he put on himself to be ready within a month made both of us miserable.

People just have different views--some people think that the relationship should be more important than marriage, but I feel that if you're in the right relationship, you shouldn't have to decide between the two. When I told D that I was leaving he said "Have you reached the point where being married means more to you than being in this relationship" and I said "yes, it has". I wasn't going to give up the possibility of having a family with a man who couldn't decide if I was the one for him. I needed for him to meet me halfway, I had been patient, I wanted to be able to discuss marriage openly without feeling like I was nagging. I only saw myself compromising by continuing to waite, I didn't see him making efforts to get on the same page as me.

This is why the whole "being in limbo" situation really only applies to women who don't feel their boyfriends are on-board with marriage. I know I could have waited if I felt like we had the same goals in mind.

In the end, when D saught therapy he realized that his fears weren't about finances or the scary thought of our relationship getting boring...it was really about closing the door. Once he was ready to close that door, nothing could have stopped him from proposing. We've been married for 6 months and he absolutely loves being married, but the journey isn't easy for everybody.

 

[Bia]

Date: 4/29/2008 2:59:58 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
I don''t mean to hog this thread, but I just want to tell you that I do understand and agree with you, Laila.

Look, it''s not easy to be the one who wants marriage and also be the one who walks away. I made 3 (!!) internal deadlines before walking away. That''s why I didn''t share my timeline with my boyfriend, though we had created one before moving in together, but he wasn''t sticking to it. I wanted to make sure I was completely ready and knew I had given it everything I had before I left. When the last deadline past, I finally felt ready. He asked for more time (a month), but the pressure he put on himself to be ready within a month made both of us miserable.

People just have different views--some people think that the relationship should be more important than marriage, but I feel that if you''re in the right relationship, you shouldn''t have to decide between the two. When I told D that I was leaving he said ''Have you reached the point where being married means more to you than being in this relationship'' and I said ''yes, it has''. I wasn''t going to give up the possibility of having a family with a man who couldn''t decide if I was the one for him. I needed for him to meet me halfway, I had been patient, I wanted to be able to discuss marriage openly without feeling like I was nagging. I only saw myself compromising by continuing to waite, I didn''t see him making efforts to get on the same page as me.

This is why the whole ''being in limbo'' situation really only applies to women who don''t feel their boyfriends are on-board with marriage. I know I could have waited if I felt like we had the same goals in mind.

In the end, when D saught therapy he realized that his fears weren''t about finances or the scary thought of our relationship getting boring...it was really about closing the door. Once he was ready to close that door, nothing could have stopped him from proposing. We''ve been married for 6 months and he absolutely loves being married, but the journey isn''t easy for everybody.

I guess I just can''t understand how one feels like their relationship is in limbo after less than one year and a half? To me, it takes that much time to really get to know someone...at least. And she''s only 26! I mean, please excuse me if I am being obnoxious, but you are young and really just coming into true womanhood and true love doesn''t happen for everyone. If you were approaching 30 then maybe I could understand a little more.

I don''t know. Please accept my apology for being so opinionated but I just wouldn''t want someone to let go of a good relationship b/c she fears (doesn''t know for sure) that her SO doesn''t want marriage in the near future. TELL HIM FIRST what you are thinking so he knows he has to make decisions sooner rather than later.

 

[Pushin40]

It really sounds like the two of you are on board, Laila.

TALK TALK TALK and don''t let him get away!!

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Geez, I need to get my eyes checked, all this time I thought she meant waiting an ADDITIONAL 18 months. A year and a half is nothing, especially to a woman in her twenties! Shoot, you're not even out of the honeymoon stage, you can't be in limbo yet!

ETA: I do get that you don't want to spend a lot of time in a relationship that is headed in the wrong direction because you could be finding the RIGHT guy, but a year and a half just seems to quick to know one way or the other--he's not against marriage, he just doesn't know and I think that is reasonable for the length of this relationship.

 

[ringless]

Cutiegrl84 we are the same age and met our bf''s the same time.. very neat. I completely agree with you!

 

[cutiegirl84]

Date: 4/29/2008 3:15:07 PM
Author: ringless
Cutiegrl84 we are the same age and met our bf''s the same time.. very neat. I completely agree with you!

Thanks ringless! My BF is graduating in 2 weeks also so I think the proposal is happening this year, as much as I''d love it today, I don''t want him to do it just because I''m pressuring him. and I think it really does take a while to get to know someone and realize you want to marry them, and try to separate the excitement of engagements and weddings and realize, when i''m 50, 60, etc. do i still want to be with this person? and after I realized that I do, i haven''t been so antsy about the engagement happening right away.

 

[bee*]

Date: 4/29/2008 12:51:18 PM
Author: Bia
Bee*: You''re from Ireland??? How cool is that?! Ireland is one of the top 5 places in the world I want to see in my lifetime (before I am old!)!

I didn''t realize the LIW were so international!

Yep, I live in Ireland. So does Delster! You''ll have to come over and visit! I was wondering were you from Ireland when you first posted as Bia means food in Irish

 

[Keepingthefaith21]

Date: 4/29/2008 2:59:58 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady

This is why the whole ''being in limbo'' situation really only applies to women who don''t feel their boyfriends are on-board with marriage. I know I could have waited if I felt like we had the same goals in mind.

Ditto!

Since when did having patience (especially patience for a majo life decision) become a negative attribute? If a discussion has happened about marriage and it is something both parties want but one of the two needs time to gather their finances in order to feel like they are really ready to support another person WHY is that automatically an “excuse”? Since when did wanting to make a HUGE decision responsibly become an indicator that a guy is “not into” his woman? Has anyone ever thought that a man’s desire to have a stable income as well as be positive he is absolutely sure of his decision is actually an indicator of just how into you he really is?

Hey, OP, remember the story in that chapter that talks about the woman who was with a man who said he would NEVER marry? If I am remembering correctly that very same guy realized he did indeed love his woman and did end up marrying her...it just took him a little longer to be ready. Imagine how foolish it would have been for that woman to just get up and walk away from an otherwise wonderful relatioship.
Why is it when we aren’t getting what we want everything a man says, regardless of the logic behind it, is simply an excuse?

 

[bee*]

Date: 4/29/2008 3:13:23 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
Geez, I need to get my eyes checked, all this time I thought she meant waiting an ADDITIONAL 18 months. A year and a half is nothing, especially to a woman in her twenties! Shoot, you''re not even out of the honeymoon stage, you can''t be in limbo yet!


ETA: I do get that you don''t want to spend a lot of time in a relationship that is headed in the wrong direction because you could be finding the RIGHT guy, but a year and a half just seems to quick to know one way or the other--he''s not against marriage, he just doesn''t know and I think that is reasonable for the length of this relationship.

ditto! From reading the OP''s last post, it sounds like there''s just one persons feelings that seem to count in the relationship and that''s hers. It''s all well and good reading a book and while some parts of it might be great in theory, don''t live your life by a book. Your bf''s opinions count also. 18 months is not long to be in a relationship and if you are really thinking of leaving in a few months I think that you deserve it to him to let him know what you''re thinking, especially if as you say he''s the one you want to be with. It just seems to be that any man will do so long as they want to get married. It''s not just your self respect that counts here, it''s also his. There are two of you in this relationship and both people''s ideas and feelings count.

 

[Bia]

No, not Irish myself

100% Latina (Colombian)

Although, my BF''s grandmother was from Ireland, (the rest of him is Greek & Prican--definitely a NYC mutt!) and he doesn''t look a bit Irish but he is still so cute! Although, come to think of it, his facial hair does have specs of red in the sun...when I catch it, I call him my beautiful Irish baby.

Seriously though, I love Ireland''s culture and people--very kind and funloving. Love me a Guiness too when the mood strikes! I hope to visit in the next few years--want to be able to do so w/ at least two weeks to see all the things I want to see!

Anyway, Hi from NY!

 

[Bia]

Hmmmm...didn't mean to post twice.

 

[Babyblue033]

Date: 4/29/2008 2:15:25 PM
Author: Laila619
Oh, and someone asked if my boyfriend knows of my 18 month deadline? No, he doesn''t. It''s an internal deadline. I don''t believe in ultimatums etc. because like I said, I believe men in love just propose on their own without any prodding necessary.

Isn''t this like setting him up for a failure? Believe me, as a woman I''m just as guilty as others in expecting my man to read my mind

. But it sounds to me like you might need to TALK to him, not about the "deadline", but about your feelings toward marriage, having children, etc. Does he know how strongly you feel about these values?

All this talk of deadlines, ultimatum, and ticking biological clock (I''m 29 and wonder if my clock is broken

) is giving me a bit of insights intoto why men thinks we''re so crazy sometimes

 

[bee*]

Date: 4/29/2008 4:15:28 PM
Author: Bia
No, not Irish myself

100% Latina (Colombian)

Although, my BF''s grandmother was from Ireland, (the rest of him is Greek & Prican--definitely a NYC mutt!) and he doesn''t look a bit Irish but he is still so cute! Although, come to think of it, his facial hair does have specs of red in the sun...when I catch it, I call him my beautiful Irish baby.


Seriously though, I love Ireland''s culture and people--very kind and funloving. Love me a Guiness too when the mood strikes! I hope to visit in the next few years--want to be able to do so w/ at least two weeks to see all the things I want to see!


Anyway, Hi from NY!

Well NY is my favourite city so maybe we can do a swap! I try to get to NY yearly-I''m crazy about it!! You''ll definitely have to come and try the Guinness here

 

[excitedmid40sgirl]

Date: 4/29/2008 12:12:35 PM
Author: FrekeChild
I''m going to say that I wholeheartedly agree with Honey22''s very well said post.

Especially this part:
''Who are you to decide at which point all of us should be getting engaged or married?! What works for you doesn''t necessarily work for other people.''

And this part:
''What do you really want? Do you want to spend your life with this man, or have a shiny ring? If he is worth it, you would wait, I am sure if he felt you were worth it, he would wait for you. It sounds like all you want is to get married, and you will happily insert any willing man into the equation in order to get what you want.''

You know, my last 2 exes wanted to marry me, but I didn''t want to marry them. To me, I didn''t just want to get married (I very easily could have!) I wanted to find THAT guy. The one who would make me feel like I was complete. Luckily I found that guy, and I''m willing to wait however long it takes him to propose-if he doesn''t ever, then I''m going to have a party celebrating our lives together anyway. After all, it''s just a piece of paper and some tax breaks.

And I think that taking comprehensive exams and being well on our way to being financially secure are pretty dang good reasons to wait.

Just a piece of paper and some tax breaks -- yikes!! I''m new here, and I respect everyone''s different opinions on relationships, timing, individual styles, etc. But wow -- and maybe it''s just me -- I don''t think of marriage as "just a piece of paper and some tax breaks." I''m Catholic (a convert), and I think of marriage as a sacrament. Yes, of course we can have a loving and permanent bond to someone we''re not legally married to. But considering it in a spiritual/religious sense (which everyone doesn''t), to me it''s a promise before God/Providence/Higher Power that you will be true to your partner, loving him with everything you''ve got, until one of you dies.

My beloved husband of 14 years, who died in March 2005 of a longstanding brain tumor, taught me a lot about love and commitment, trust and faith. Our relationship also taught me that marriage is about much, much more than just what we might think of as "love," "romance," or even commitment.

Anyhow, I can see lots of sides of this question. Yes, it''s about the relationship and "enjoying the ride," not about the ring. But it can also be about the clock ticking, about one''s needs and wants for stability, and about acting on your own behalf if you''re getting a serious feeling that the man you''re with will probably never commit to you.

Laila, I think you owe it to yourself to consider all the feedback here, and not limit yourself to what the "He''s Just Not That Into Me" book says. Look inside your own heart and mind, and listen to your gut. My two cents.

 

[Pandora II]

My father proposed to my mother within two weeks of meeting her as did my grandfather, so I was very much brought up to think that men couldn''t wait to propose. BUT, I come from a long line of incredibly successful and happy marriages.

Not everyone has that kind of background though. My FI told me very early on that he NEVER wanted to get married. His parents had a messy divorce that split the whole family up when he was 14.

In my peer group in London none of us have started getting married until last year, now it seems as if we''re all engaged. I''m 36 in August and FI is 33.

We dated for nearly 2.5 years before we got engaged and lived together nearly all of that time - our engagement is 19 months as well. I didn''t even begin to think about engagement until after the 18 month mark.

I knew that FI didn''t want to get married - he wanted to be with me permanently and gave me half his house to show his commitment after a year, but he just had a huge emotional block. I also wanted to be in a certain place financial and career-wise before getting married.



It seems a bit immature to me that you don''t talk to him about this. If he knows how you feel and things aren''t progressing and you think the relationship may have problems then setting an internal timeline is a good thing.

It also seems rather selfish that you feel that your desires are more important than his. Marriage isn''t a guessing game, its based on communication and respect for each other. Playing I''m not going to tell you what I want or even that I playing this but if you don''t guess in time I''m leaving isn''t a very good basis for a marriage IMHO.

18 months is not a long relationship at your age by any stretch - and if you are not living together then even more so.

 

[Bia]

AMEN to that...

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 4/29/2008 2:26:26 PM
Author: Laila619

Date: 4/29/2008 12:12:35 PM

Author: FrekeChild

I'm going to say that I wholeheartedly agree with Honey22's very well said post.

Especially this part:
'Who are you to decide at which point all of us should be getting engaged or married?! What works for you doesn't necessarily work for other people.'

And this part:
'What do you really want? Do you want to spend your life with this man, or have a shiny ring? If he is worth it, you would wait, I am sure if he felt you were worth it, he would wait for you. It sounds like all you want is to get married, and you will happily insert any willing man into the equation in order to get what you want.'

You know, my last 2 exes wanted to marry me, but I didn't want to marry them. To me, I didn't just want to get married (I very easily could have!) I wanted to find THAT guy. The one who would make me feel like I was complete. Luckily I found that guy, and I'm willing to wait however long it takes him to propose-if he doesn't ever, then I'm going to have a party celebrating our lives together anyway. After all, it's just a piece of paper and some tax breaks.

And I think that taking comprehensive exams and being well on our way to being financially secure are pretty dang good reasons to wait.

That's all fine and good, but what about if a woman wants kids? Women aren't fertile forever, and most women don't want to have kids out of wedlock. Marriage provides a secure, socially accepted environment in which to raise children. That's why it's more than just a piece of paper.

I don't want to have kids. If it happens, it happens, but we won't actively pursue parenthood. That is our thinking at the moment. If it does hit later (which I doubt it will, we are both firm believers in the fact that the world is overpopulated as it is, not to mention several health issues) we will adopt and give a child who didn't have as much of a chance, a great chance at thriving and becoming a wonderful person.

Also. Marriage doesn't last forever. 40-ish% of marriage ends in divorce. It IS just a piece of paper and tax breaks. Just as a child's birth certificate is just a piece of paper with two names on it. If you're going to pull having children into the argument.

I really don't think that marriage provides a "secure socially accepted environment in which to raise children." You start bringing that up to the PSer whose BF/DH's parents have been together for 30 or so years and NEVER MARRIED and we'll see how far you get. Perhaps marriage is a norm in this culture, but I would NOT put it into the words you did.

ETA: I think it's INCREDIBLY unfair that you're giving him an internal time line of 18 months and not telling him about it. What if he was waiting for month 19? I think you're asking an awful lot from him, first of all basically asking him to read your mind that you want to get engaged, and then to put a time line (a short one) on top of that? I hope your girlfriends clue him in, otherwise he's in for a rather rude shock when you leave him on the first day of month 19.

Having said that, I admire your tenacity and the strength behind your convictions.

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

heheh this topic is generating a lot of interest!!! Guess us ladies in waiting don''t like to hear that maybe our men are "just not that into us..."

 

[Blair138]

I find myself comparing my relationship to other people''s and when they got engaged vs. how long they were dating/how old they were. It''s EXTREMELY hard for me because my BF is the LAST one out of all his friends to be married (we''re not even engaged yet and everyone else has been married for at LEAST 3 years). BUT EVERYONE''S relationship is different and I''ve brought myself to that conclusion after much agony. I know that my BF has waited because we both wanted to be stable financially and not have to struggle AT ALL when we get married. I''ve watched all of his friends struggle, and still struggle after many years, with kids and without. Our decision is going to allow us to buy a home, have kids and do whatever we want whenever we want because of the money we have saved. Yes, he could have proposed earlier, but we would have not been able to afford things we wanted and I am happy that it has worked out the way it has, EVEN though I really want to strangle him sometimes and ask why he hasn''t proposed yet.

That book may be right for some people, but it''s a BOOK of someone''s OPINION. It''s not going to fit for everyone. If things are good for you guys, then be happy with what you have right now. If it''s meant to happen, it will. That being said, if you feel like he may NEVER want to get married and it is something that is very important to you, then maybe I would rethink things. But give him time, and talk things out with him, you may be surprised.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 4/29/2008 6:23:15 PM
Author: excitedmid40sgirl

Date: 4/29/2008 12:12:35 PM

Author: FrekeChild
I'm going to say that I wholeheartedly agree with Honey22's very well said post.
Especially this part:
'Who are you to decide at which point all of us should be getting engaged or married?! What works for you doesn't necessarily work for other people.'
And this part:
'What do you really want? Do you want to spend your life with this man, or have a shiny ring? If he is worth it, you would wait, I am sure if he felt you were worth it, he would wait for you. It sounds like all you want is to get married, and you will happily insert any willing man into the equation in order to get what you want.'

You know, my last 2 exes wanted to marry me, but I didn't want to marry them. To me, I didn't just want to get married (I very easily could have!) I wanted to find THAT guy. The one who would make me feel like I was complete. Luckily I found that guy, and I'm willing to wait however long it takes him to propose-if he doesn't ever, then I'm going to have a party celebrating our lives together anyway. After all, it's just a piece of paper and some tax breaks.
And I think that taking comprehensive exams and being well on our way to being financially secure are pretty dang good reasons to wait.

Just a piece of paper and some tax breaks -- yikes!! I'm new here, and I respect everyone's different opinions on relationships, timing, individual styles, etc. But wow -- and maybe it's just me -- I don't think of marriage as 'just a piece of paper and some tax breaks.' I'm Catholic (a convert), and I think of marriage as a sacrament. Yes, of course we can have a loving and permanent bond to someone we're not legally married to. But considering it in a spiritual/religious sense (which everyone doesn't), to me it's a promise before God/Providence/Higher Power that you will be true to your partner, loving him with everything you've got, until one of you dies.

Perhaps I should elaborate. I am the daughter of a divorce attorney. I have worked in his office. I have seen more wreckage of relationships in that short time frame than ANYONE else in my age range.
I am a former Catholic, current non-religious type (you can call me agnostic if you'd like), and a very logical wanna-be micro social scientist. I should mention that BF is a macro social science statistician also non-religious.
To those who are non-religious and especially people like myself, marriage is lacking in the religious part and possibly the spiritual part.

Let me tell you something, when the spiritual/religious side of marriage lets you down, your partner no longer wants to be with you, and that sacrament is already broken, YES it is just a piece of paper and some tax breaks. Also legal rights. Just ask any gay couple that wants to get married-all they get to have is the spiritual/religious side of things-they want the legal rights that come with it.

I've done too much studying in the subject, been exposed to too many failed relationships (mostly marital) and I'm entirely too logical and realistic to think that just a spiritual bond will keep two people together. Or, heck, even a legal bond.
Marriage takes commitment, communication and compromise. It's about the relationship between the two people, and if you're religious-you can add your god in there too.

When the rest of the world views it, they look at it legally, statistically (who doesn't keep tabs on the divorce rate anymore-media totally inflates it, and truly the Census has no way of really measuring it) and financially, they don't care about the religious aspect of things, so to THEM, your marriage is just that, two people tied together by a piece of paper, that just happens to give them tax breaks.

By the way, my father, the divorce attorney, has been divorced and is an extremely devout Catholic too. And a liberal Democrat to boot.

 

[diamondfan]

I think in a perfect world men would spontaneously propose when expected to and all would be great.

We do not live in this world. Communication is so key to your future together that I am somewhat surprised you would not have a convo about marriage and timing. NOT an ultimatum filled bitch fest, but an honest dialog. I mean, I would never want to marry someone who felt forced or pushed into it, but that is different than allowing for individuals and how they wish to proceed with something this momentous.

No, I would not want to stay with someone who clearly did not want marriage if I did. And yes, I would be willing to be a bit patient if I felt he really did love me and want to marry me, even if it was not exactly when I planned it.

 

[princesss]

Date: 4/29/2008 8:08:50 PM
Author: ilovethiswebsite
heheh this topic is generating a lot of interest!!! Guess us ladies in waiting don''t like to hear that maybe our men are ''just not that into us...''

Or maybe the OP is just wrong....

Honestly, I think that book has it''s place: in the hands of people who will read it critically. Most men aren''t going to run to the altar. Many of them need to be prodded and realize that it''s important to their girlfriends. You can''t just take self-help books like that at face value, you have to be able to take a step back and see if your relationship fits into what they''re talking about or if you might actually just have a good guy who doesn''t understand marriage is as important to you as it is.

And giving him 18 months without talking to him about it? What kind of precedent is that for the rest of your relationship? You''re just going to make a decision that affects both of you and not talk to him about it? What about if you want kids and he''s not ready yet? Are you just going to get pregnant because your desires are more important than his? I know I''m sounding a little harsh, but I think you''re playing games and that''s no way to sustain a healthy, respectful relationship.

Different relationships move at different speeds, and no book is going to have the "truth" about what speed your relationship should go.

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

Ya I totally agree with you, I just find it interesting how many ladies are taking offense to Laila''s comment.... Just speculating reasons as to why... I too think that book is redic and should probably be burned...

 

[FrekeChild]

I just want to say that I'm not in any way shape or form taking offense to her post.

I feel sorry for her SO. He has no idea whats coming in a few short months, because-and I could be wrong-but it doesn't sound like they've had any kind of conversation about marriage at all, and I'm guessing that he's not going to propose in time.

BF would be devastated if I did that to him. But perhaps it just means that they aren't meant to get married. Period.

I still feel sorry for him though. Talk about sucker-punched.

ETA: And does redic mean ridiculous?

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

ETA: And does redic mean ridiculous?[/quote]


INDEED IT DOES... I TALK ONLY IN ABBREVS.