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I was right... (update from I decided, I give up)

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Patchee..

Your relationship sounds very similar to my last relationship. For that, I''m truly empathizing with your situation.

Gather your friends, your family, and do something good for yourself -- make yourself happy with other people for awhile. Get away from where you are for a little while, a few days. If you can''t do that, take some vacation time and rent a car to drive away for a while. Your head needs some clarity, considering your self doubts are starting to set in. It''s natural, but you must retain conviction in your feelings. Don''t allow your self-doubts to override your heart, out of fear of losing your comfort zone. It is not you who needs to change, it is him.

It will be tortuous for awhile, but know: this too, shall pass. You can be happy knowing that there are more opportunities to take, with knowing about yourself, what you''re capable of, and how this relationship does not define you.

He is a cad. He is dishonest with himself. He is acting out the part of a misogynistic man who cannot dissociate between his own identity, and that of his father, when he is involved with women. He is afraid. He does not know himself. He does not know his own fears, nor can he talk about them openly. He is not ready to walk within reality, let alone realize that there is someone who was willing to walk beside him. He lies to himself, to make himself feel better. He will lie to you, out of guilt, or anger. He will impose his negativity upon you, in an effort to reinvest the pain he feels from his own shortcomings. He is dysfunctional, purely by his own hand, and will continue to be an irresponsible man, until he exhausts himself of that destructive and selfish ritual.

Take strength in yourself, that you are not him. For a man like him has chosen to be that way, as you have chosen to be a better person to yourself, and to others.
 
one more thing...

you said, "28 is not too young to be talking about marriage, is it?" NO WAY! and on top of that, he''s 36! and 36 isn''t too young to be talking about marriage! at almost 40 YEARS OLD he''s acting that way??

loser. i know you mentioned on another post his going out, etc.. he''s like an all-grown-up frat boy. ;)

<3
 
I was not wrong in wanting to know just where we are at?
You were absolutely NOT wrong! You have a right to know where the relationship is and where it''s going. It''s your relationship! Don''t let him make you feel like your feelings aren''t justified. They absolutely are! In any relationship, it is typical to talk about how things are going and keep talking throughout the relationship, about the little things and about the big things. I think that it''s when you aren''t talking or you stop talking that there is a problem. Communication is perfectly normal and reasonable about any subject that you want to talk about.

Two years 6 months is not too soon right?
I definitely don''t think it''s too soon. You have to do what feels right to you. If the time feels right, then it is. I''ve been w/my bf less than 2 years and I feel that things have developed naturally as time has progressed. There is no time that is too soon, if you are ready.

28 Years old is not too young to be talking about marriage, is it?
No, as others brought up, many on here get married in their early 20''s. But it''s not the age that''s important. It''s what you feel inside and when you feel that it''s a good time to talk about marriage.

He brought up something like - feel like your getting old so have to talk about this, run out get married soon... because your getting old..
First of all, I think that is ridiculous. 28 is NOT old! Second, I definitely agree that he''s putting his fears and insecurities on you. I also wanted to say that although he''s a child of divorce, he still doesn''t have to feel the way that he does. I am a child of divorce and that has actually strengthened my view of marriage. I take it very seriously, partly due to the fact that I''ve seen it fail. I don''t want that to be me and so I won''t allow myself to get married unless I feel it is right for me. Sure, he may have been affected by divorce and his past, but regardless, those are his things. NOT yours! Don''t let him suck you in and make you doubt yourself or what you feel.
Just keep remembering how you feel in all of this. Don''t let him take that away from you!
 
Another point I was going to make-
Please DO NOT let him make you start doubting yourself, your opinion and your point of view!
 
Patchee, I''m so sorry you''re going through this, and everyone is right, once he''s decided he probably won''t marry (even if it''s not for awhile), he''d made his mind up. And it just pisses me off to think that he expects you to stick around, to just throw your beliefs and wishes to the side, only thinking of his. Relationships are a compromise, and it seems like the only one compromising here is you. NOT OKAY. Don''t feel ashamed, or like a failure. You''ve done all you could to make your dreams come true. If he puts his own wants and needs before your own (
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), what kind of relationship does he want?? And would you really want a father of your future child to have that reasoning? I wouldn''t. But Patchee, we are all here for you, and support you in your decision. Good luck.
 
After you''ve waded through all this:

have you left yet? Have you booked a fun trip for yourself and friends? What area do you live in? Maybe there are some PSers who''d be willing to get together?
 
Hey, I''m back ... went out for some air. Meep, thank you for mapping out my thoughts, when you do that for me I have a totally clear picture of what I was preceving to begin with just could not write it out. Thank you everyone else for you kind words... The truth hurts at times, I know this but I can take it. I just don''t know what moves to make next, what to say next etc.

I have 3 kittens I need to think about. I don''t want to go back to apartment days ... I don''t know what to say to him now... I am emotionally drained .. The feel of this hurt is so unexplainable.. almost like a love that a mother has for her child that no one else understands...except for other mothers, except for other people who have been through this.... I am at work right now... getting things done here and there but not really... I am on a cloud.. oh and I am so hungry!
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I am going to florida for 5 days this wednesday! Odd how things get set up., it is like my subconscience knew before I did! I am going with my sister, just the two of us... renting a convertible ... yes, we both need it.
 
Meep, I am in upstate NY - that is why I am going to Florida! haha! Warm please! It has been raining here for days....!!!! Florida bound here I come!


Yesterday was the last falling out.. my last post.. I have some things to figure out first before I make any harsh moves...
 
That''s great that you''ve got a trip planned! I hope you can relax and sort through all the thoughts going through your head. You deserve the time to yourself. And don''t forget to have fun!!
 
Date: 4/24/2006 2:49:17 PM
Author: meepcat
He is afraid. He does not know himself. He does not know his own fears, nor can he talk about them openly.

I agree with a lot of what you''ve written, Meepcat. But on this point I don''t agree. I think when we start talking about men''s "fears" and "not knowing themselves" we''re projecting our own stuff onto them perhaps. We start to pity them & make excuses for them and think we can "help them be a better person."

IMO, this guy isn''t afraid & he knows exactly who he is: A smug, self-satisfied cad. Not everyone wishes to be or ever will be more evolved souls. If he found someone who "tripped his wire" - he''d commit. That''s what the book "He''s Not That Into You" is all about. Even misogynist JERKS commit. (God help the ladies involved!)

Analyzing "why" about him is spinning therapy-talk wheels unecessarily. It is what it is. No matter why. (If the "why" is helping though - I''ll shut up)
 
Date: 4/24/2006 3:07:22 PM
Author: Patchee


I am going to florida for 5 days this wednesday! Odd how things get set up., it is like my subconscience knew before I did! I am going with my sister, just the two of us... renting a convertible ... yes, we both need it.
oh, that is absolutely perfect!! Being around friends and family whom you know LOVE you forever is the best thing, post-breakup IMO. After breaking up w/ my live-in ex, my family was the perfect way to take my mind off him, recenter, and just BE with people who care about me no matter what.

The more I am reading about this guy, the more I dislike him too
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To say such mean and hurtful things to someone you love! Grrrrrrr.. I''d like to kick him in the butt for you. You are in the right here 100%, and don''t forget it or let him convince you otherwise. You deserve a relationship where your partner wants the same things as you and you will find it.

Keep your head up- you''re doing the right thing! And we''re always here for you
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Date: 4/24/2006 3:18:20 PM
Author: decodelighted
I think when we start talking about men''s ''fears'' and ''not knowing themselves'' we''re projecting our own stuff onto them perhaps. We start to pity them & make excuses for them and think we can ''help them be a better person.''

IMO, this guy isn''t afraid & he knows exactly who he is: A smug, self-satisfied cad. Not everyone wishes to be or ever will be more evolved souls. If he found someone who ''tripped his wire'' - he''d commit. That''s what the book ''He''s Not That Into You'' is all about. Even misogynist JERKS commit. (God help the ladies involved!)

Analyzing ''why'' about him is spinning therapy-talk wheels unecessarily. It is what it is. No matter why. (If the ''why'' is helping though - I''ll shut up)
I agree. My ex was 35 and always told me he never wanted to marry....but that really wasn''t the case. What it came down too was that ''he was not that into me'', it sounds so corny to say that because of that book but it''s true. He met and got engaged to someone within 2 months of knowing her. When I questioned him about why he is getting married after all those years of him telling me otherwise, he said ''I''m 35 years old and have never felt this much love or been this happy'' *slap in my face* With my EX it was a simple matter of me not giving him what he wanted, I''m not talking love I gave him plenty of that, I''m talking materialistic stuff. His wife, can give him the life he wanted without him having to work hard.

A guy at 36, knows what he wants, if he''s telling you he doesn''t want to get married, 99% chance he''s being honest because he either A) doesn''t want to marry you or B) he hasn''t meet the one girl that he truly wants to marry (and I''m not trying to sound mean Patchee because I''ve been there). His ''trying to figure out what he really wants'' is his way of prolonging the inevitable. I know it''s easier said than done, but if I were in your shoes, knowing what I know now I''d walk away from him. In the end, you''ll be much better off.
 
Date: 4/24/2006 3:18:20 PM
Author: decodelighted
Date: 4/24/2006 2:49:17 PM

Author: meepcat

He is afraid. He does not know himself. He does not know his own fears, nor can he talk about them openly.

I agree with a lot of what you''ve written, Meepcat. But on this point I don''t agree. I think when we start talking about men''s ''fears'' and ''not knowing themselves'' we''re projecting our own stuff onto them perhaps. We start to pity them & make excuses for them and think we can ''help them be a better person.''

IMO, this guy isn''t afraid & he knows exactly who he is: A smug, self-satisfied cad. Not everyone wishes to be or ever will be more evolved souls. If he found someone who ''tripped his wire'' - he''d commit. That''s what the book ''He''s Not That Into You'' is all about. Even misogynist JERKS commit. (God help the ladies involved!)

Analyzing ''why'' about him is spinning therapy-talk wheels unecessarily. It is what it is. No matter why. (If the ''why'' is helping though - I''ll shut up)

Well, I''m speaking from the experiences of battling arguments through 4 long-term (2-4 year) relationships, analyzing (as technically and logically possible) the misunderstandings and personalities involved, while considering that each individual is one who deserves love, and to be loved. My more recent relationship has marked my strong impetus towards honesty and self-awareness. I have personal convictions that men are no different from women, as far as being self-absorbed, selfish, and afraid.

I stand by my opinion (based solely on the fragment of heresy), that this individual is afraid, and cannot talk openly about fears. Were he able to do this, Patchee would not feel as she does. IMHO, when a person is unafraid and can talk openly of their fears, there are incredibly insights and realizations exchanged. With divorce prevalent in his background, he has developed his accepted perceptions of marriage relationships. Though broken in their own right, this influence has likely affected his ability to positively assess his own perceptions of marriage, thereby overshadowing his fears, attributing Patchee''s actions (..getting old) to his warped conception of marriage (creating a defense against Patchee, rather than proactively empathizing with her feelings, and productively associating himself with them). In the end, he is not facing any fears that he has -- he is merely side-stepping them out of a conditioned habit.

If he knew himself better towards improving his being, his awareness of others'' feelings and desire to love, as well as contributing this to his own, Patchee would not have written as she has. Sure, he is selfish, but IMHO, the degree of selfishness is encroaching on Patchee''s need for his being in love with her. A man can love someone, but to be in love, well, that requires being fearless and happy. He is neither of those. Patchee, on the other hand, has a greater degree of happiness running through her, because she can confront the pain of these issues through writing her thoughts out.

A man can change, from better to worse, or vice versa: like any woman, he can change. However, he doesn''t know what he wants, because his fears cloud his judgement towards figuring it out. A person is likelier to get to know themselves better in a relationship, than alone. He will have time (while Patchee''s in Florida) to possibly reflect on their discussions. However, if he hasn''t, then it''s evident his priorities are mismatched with Patchee''s.

I have one more piece of advice:

If you''re looking for reasons to leave, you should stay. If you''re looking for reasons to stay, you should leave.
 
I agree that it does not matter WHY especially if he is not willing to fix it or change it etc.

Sometimes it IS getting him ready for the next girl, as sad as that is....sometimes it is about 'you are not the right one' as opposed to 'i don't want to get married'.

We were talking about this last nite with Greg's sister who is having a hard time finding the guy for 'long-term' and not just 'right now'...Greg was saying how glad he was that he waited and found the right person for him. How it doesn't matter how old you get, that you will know when you do find that person, which underscores my whole 'within 2 years' thing.
 
Ice Kid. your right "to say such mean things to me"... which he has never before. Never raised a hand, his voice, nothing.. always the kind loveable boyfriend .. untill I "tripped the wire" so to speak....

I need to get that book.. he''s just not that into you.. I''ve heard all good things about it.

Family is key - my grandma is my rock in this situation.. my sister is my sister - we come from different worlds but we do love eachother ...
 
If he wants to throw away the best thing that has ever happend to him, then he is an idiot. :) There is no reason that he should treat you like that. You (EVERY GIRL) should never compromise your thoughts, morals, values and beliefs for a man (or lack there of). You have nothing to feel sorry for. Men are arrpgant and they really belive that once you contribute to a household then they have you. I have been in a silimar situation and I will give you a little advice:

* Your friends are always there for you even though you may not think that way.
* You are always entitled to make your feelings known to them. They can never take away your feelings
* Just because you contribute to the mortgage does not mean you have to for the rest of his life.
* If there is any feeling that he would with hold items from you then slowly take things and get a storage facility
* I know you may not feel like he woulldn''t do it, but protect yourself and your feelings

If you need someone to talk to-We are all here.
Loves and Hugs
~*Alexis*~
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Hi Patchee,

I''m going to explain to you what I did, without the intention of influencing you. My last relationship went like this:

1. We met in 2001, working in the same company. He came to visit me at our French office, when I was visiting Paris, and we hit it off; flirting, we were entangled and excited. He was confident, something I hadn''t expected in a male software engineer.

2. We got together in 2002, after I broke up with my ex-fiance. I was taken in by his looks, attitude, and how he carried himself -- I needed a man who would lead me for awhile, both emotionally and in the relationship.

3. We fought ALL THE TIME. It was a long distance relationship for the first 6 months, when I moved to France to be closer to him, and eventually moved to Germany 6 months later.

4. We still fought ALL THE TIME. Cultural differences, fear, misogyny, and self-absorption seperated him from his "love" for me. I was just plain afraid of everything, because not only was I in a foreign country, but now, I was living with a complete stranger who was the antithesis of any man I''d have (in my right mind) considered having relationship with.

5. I found new friends. I hung out with Germans who integrated me into their circle, and helped me learn the language fluently. This shaped my understanding of the German man''s mind; helped me to see that fun is a priority, and that I should be in a relationship that makes me happy, with someone WHO WANTS TO BE WITH ME.

6. I realized that I had been trying to live up to an image my ex had of me, and I had suffered too longer at the hands of this monster. I realized that my fears were reasonable, that my ex was only contributing to them in his sick, disgusting pleasure of making other people feel miserable, and that getting out is the only way I could survive. I hurt myself through this process, both emotionally and physically, trying to walk through the valley of my worst fears.

7. He made a last-ditch effort, for a month, to be the best boyfriend he could be. He was very generous with his time, energy, even money: he planned vacations, took me on trips to places I wanted to go before (but he didn''t, because he didn''t want time off work -- being a workaholic). He was trying to be the boyfriend I told him I wanted, out of fear of losing me. In the end, I fully recognized the signs, because he would revert back to his rude behaviors, falling out of his "act". It''s a great cover for awhile, but inherently, I could trust him no more with my heart.

8. I moved back to the states, found a new job, a new apartment, a new car, my BF, and completely rebuilt my life around my OWN needs. I had my support network of friends, family, and hobbies to keep my mind in the positive. I developed my standards for a relationship before meeting my BF, and felt incredible determination to put my life back together.

There isn''t a day that passes where I don''t reflect on this. I know what I have now, and I know that without the prior obstacles and challenges, I wouldn''t have the implicit understanding of trusting in this relationship.

Of course, you and I are different, but I feel, as we are women, that you will be strong and take care of yourself. There is no mold that you must fit into; just that you must survive by your wits, and take great pride in being a good person to yourself, and to others.

After your trip, I will anticipate you to have more questions on your next moves. IMHO, you should follow what your gut feelings tell you. However, here are what mine told me, after I made my decision to leave my ex:

1. Get an apartment, get the money I have together for first month''s rent or deposit. If I can''t find an apartment, stay at a friend''s house for a little while. Move my stuff into storage until I find a place. Get friends to help me move. In my case, my ex decided to ship all my stuff to the states (and stiff me with a $2k bill, which I didn''t bother to pay).

2. Get a car, or if you already have one, start dissociating your bills from his. Call banks to remove account associations, insurance, etc.

3. Talk to your friends throughout this process, they''ll understand what you''re going through. They''re there to listen to you in your time of need.

4. Write often -- keep a journal of your thoughts. You''ll be writing for something about confusing parts in your relationship, or realizations now understood. You''ll write about possibilities in the future for yourself. Even if you have that nagging feeling of wishing you could get back together -- write about it. Tell all your secrets to this journal of your deepest, unfiltered thoughts, feelings. Through tears, even. It will help you organize what''s hurting you.

5. Change your daily habit. If you have a routine that you were comfortable with when with your SO, do something different to change the feelings normally associated with the mental or physical habits you''ve maintained. This might require active changes, but they will be beneficial. As you get through each obstacle, you will ellicit a refreshed feeling of change. Be patient, opportunities are abound.

Another thing.. If you come back from your trip, with trepidation of talking to your SO, confront it, and talk to him. Arrange your thoughts, such that you have perspective on your feelings about the future. Should you find that you''re both comfortable (truly, not just on the surface) with the discussion, consider that the relationship isn''t over just yet. He may have taken your absence as the time to consider what''s important to him. If he is willing to change FOR HIMSELF because he realizes that he was wrong before, and is showing signs of change, consider taking a month to put it to the test. Trust may be the most difficult part of this process.
 
I''m very sorry to hear that your boyfriend doesn''t love you enough to want to commit to you...
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Have fun on your trip, and I hope things work out for you in this new chapter of your life. I''ve seen some fabulous advice here... good luck! We all care about you.
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Hon I am so sorry all of this is happening! Everyone has given you some wonderful advice and I cannot match what has previously been said. There is a lot of advice to take into consideration. I know you will have the strength to do what you need to do when you return from FL. If you are at all interested, perhaps later and not anytime soon, meepcat and I have been discussing the qualities and expectations she came up with after her nasty breakup. The thread is entitled "Meepcat attention attention". I thought it was interesting to look at the list and think about things in terms of the interactions in myu own relationships.

I wish I had more comforting words for you but often I am a better listener and "silent comforter" than I am at finding solutions and ideas for change. We are all here for you. I know you will be able to find what you want and need!

Amanda
 
Patchee,

I wanted to echo all the voices of support you''ve received so far. This is neither black nor white, and I don''t feel in a position to say what the best course of action is. But in reading through all of the comments and advice here, I have been really touched by Meep''s posts - she has a profound understanding of the fine nuances of your predicament.

Meep,

I hope you stick around these parts. You are a rare breed, indeed.
 
Patchee,

I''m so sorry that all of this is happening. Like everyone else has already told you, waiting two and a half years to have this discussion is more than patient on your part. It''s good that you learned this now, rather than even later down the road. Don''t start doubting yourself. You deserve someone who respects you and has the same goals as you do, and I''m sure that you''ll be able to find him.

It''s really good that you''re able to get away for a few days. Enjoy the time apart, figure things out, talk it out with your sister.

We''ll be here for you if you need us!

{{{hugs}}}

Blenheim
 
Date: 4/24/2006 6:18:32 PM
Author: stermag
I hope you stick around these parts. You are a rare breed, indeed.

Thanks so much! I am giving back what LIW have given to me: understanding and patience, through my own LIW period. I''m so grateful to you ladies.

Patchee, feel free to write any time, about any questions, logistical, or practical issues you might have. I''m sure every female on in this forum has endured some amount of the trepidation or concern that you have with your next steps. I believe I can make the generalization that we''re here, thinking of you.
 
I don''t know what to add, as everyone has had such good advice already, but I am impressed by your strength and I hope that your future brings you everything you deserve.

Big ((((((HUGS)))))))!
 
Date: 4/24/2006 1:50:41 PM
Author: Patchee
Ok Next step...
I don''t want to be in a relationship where I have no choices... I have no choice here on having kids if I wanted or being married if I wanted to. I need to be smart on my decisions though.
I do love him but my will is so much stronger to love in situations like this... He hurt me without even knowing it with some of his answers to my questions. Things that stapled my heart literally...
I know I am going to have to move on... honeslty, if he said .. I love you & marriage is something I want, just not right now I would have been ok with that. Everyone''s time frame is different and I understand that but all the other not necessary comments pierced my heart.. unforgettable now.
I told him any other women would walk on you today ... he said but your not because we have such a unique relationship (which we do, before this conversation started) ... but LIW little does he know .... I am like other women! I will walk ... because I will not sit around feeling down over this, letting my years fly by, and knowing that he does not want what I want, and if he was to propose... I WOULD NOT say yes... I am so damaged, he caused it...
I will be ok, I am strong, been through more then this in my life but it will pass - like everything else and tomorrow is a new day... thanks for listening to me.... Most of you understand here.. in my world.. I can''t and won''t talk about it with anyone.. I feel like a failure and the common thought of he doesn''t love me enough to marry me...
I will not let myself always be just the girlfriend....

Hi Patchee,

I seemed to overlook this response you sent. I have a few comments regarding what you wrote:

You are hurting right now. Deeply hurting. Feel that hurt as much as you need to, then let it pass over you. Try as hard as you can, to not see his desires or what he has communicated as malicious intent. As you explained, this topic had not been discussed for over 2 years. He will react in a manner that is inordinate to the circumstance, unaware of the damage that has been perpetrated simply in his intonation and words. He should know better, but he chooses not to. He is not helpless, and nor is he aware. But do not allow his words to cut through your heart. They are only words, they are not your''s.

I do sense, from your statement (other women would walk on you today ... he said but your not because we have such a unique relationship), that he is socially inept with his emotions and those of others in a relationship. He is unable to carefully think through his emotions and choose his words appropriately for the circumstance. There is no excuse for that behavior, regardless if he feels bombarded or reactive to the argument.

It also seems to me that the situation of your relationship has exceeded the question of engagement. You are discovering a part of him that has been dormant for 2+ years. The danger in this situation is the probability that you have constructed images of each other, without confronting (in the first year), the truth, honesty, mutual respect, and priorities that each person come into the relationship with.

An analogy of this situation would be the investment of building a scaffold atop a foundation that has been poked, but not thoroughly investigated, such that an earthquake (a naturally occuring phenomenon, like an argument over marriage) could cause the scaffold to collapse, because the foundation is lacking substantial integrity. On the outside, the foundation looks intact, but on the inside, there is not enough to maintain stability. Because you have built the scaffold over two years, the difficulty to deconstruct and finally investigate the foundation seems overwhelming. Rebuilding it may seem impossible. It may be unrealistic.

Getting back to the situation: trust has been broken. If you can''t trust if he is being honest, sincere, respectful, sensitive, and loving with you, you will learn to seek out these needs in the next relationship.
 
I''m soo sorry that you''re hurting Patchee. Its so hard to put your heart and soul into something and not see it bloom into what you want it to be. The thought of leaving a relationship and a life you have built for years is scary, and deciding to leave is no small thing.

About a year ago I posted here asking for advice on how marriage is different from other intimate relationships because my boyfriend told me that he really didn''t believe in marriage and was only doing it because I wanted it. Of course, my first thought was that maybe he was unsure about me and our relationship and I worried that he wasn''t excited about getting married because he just didn''t want to marry me. We ended up going to counseling because we were having a hard time productively discussing things and we ended up reaching an understanding. His objections were with a certain view of marriage and after really discussing how I viewed the subject he decided he liked my view of marriage and now he''s just as excited as I am.

I know all the ladies here are giving their best advice from their experiences and have the best intentions but none of us really know you, or your boyfriend or the dynamic of your relationship and it''s easy to project our own experiences onto your situation and assume it is the same. Take everything in in the spirit it was intended but only you can know what is best for your situation. I wish you the best of luck and peace on your trip to Florida. Enjoy the time with your sister!
 
Devil''s Advocate here..

Counselors can be helpful, but it is subjective to the individual, their own moods, etc. They also cost more than a free posting to PS, except for the time that the postee has invested in writing their advice or thoughts for Patchee.

Personally, I''m a fan of free advice. Having tasted therapy for years, both in the US, France, and Germany, I have discovered how difficult it is to reach the heart of matters most intimate and difficult to confront. My most personally productive experiences have come from naturally experiencing my emotions without fear of where they''ll take me.
 
No one ... and I mean NO ONE can know exactly what you''re going through right now. With all due respect to the many wise counselors offering their own personal experiences - there''s a difference between analysis and OVERanalyzing. My eyes are crossing at some of the philosophical riffs, but maybe I''m just a cut-to-the-chase gal.

I''ll repeat my point so it''s not lost in the rhetoric. IT DOESN''T MATTER "WHY". You may NEVER KNOW "why" he is the way he is, or why he was this way IN THIS RELATIONSHIP. Nor will you care when you''ve moved on and are experiencing the full, two-way, committed relationship you yearn for.

In life, the only person you can control is yourself. I''d bet that most folks never get back in touch with the "ex" to really find out if their theories about "WHY" held any water at all.

To assume that if people just faced their fears & discussed things openly - that we''d all end up being our "true selves" and have "healthy relationships" ASSUMES A LOT. Not everyone wants or desires that -- or even has THE CAPACITY. Men, women, either. I don''t assume I know what''s going on with THE OTHER PERSON or craft a story about it out of my own personal beliefs. To me: that''s "magical thinking". I prefer to deal with WHAT IS. But that''s just me. To each, his own.

Use whatever truths serve you during this transition period. Glad the trip is coming up soon! Trips do have a way of providing clarity in a way only our own hearts can reveal.
 
Deco, I can't quite agree with that you've written, but I can understand your sentiment. My opinions are my own, and more specifically, I've invested my thoughts into something I hope will help Patchee with an inkling of answers from another person whose pain resonates with her's. That does not invalidate your perspective, nor those who took the time to voice their opinions. She posted looking for advice, or folks to read, listen, empathize. As such, I've been very enthusiastic to impart my personal experiences, with some hope that she'll feel she's not alone.

That said, perhaps you find my opinions to be offensive, trite, or annoying to read. I'd appreciate the consideration on your part to respond positively, rather than implying your distaste and criticism for other folks' heartfelt opinions.
 
Date: 4/24/2006 9:17:59 PM
Author: meepcat
perhaps you find my opinions to be offensive, trite, or annoying to read. I''d appreciate the consideration on your part to respond positively, rather than implying your distaste and criticism for other folks'' heartfelt opinions.

To be clear, I neither wrote nor implied that your opinions were offensive, trite or annoying to read. I simply disgree with you and said as much. You can out type me, or consider me "not positive" ... but I believe we''re BOTH attempting to offer support and experience.

p.s. - if you interpreted my "eyecrossing" remark as critcism, I apologize for that. My intent was to convey MY OWN reaction (overwhelmed) to such detailed analysis .. not to JUDGE it as good/bad/indifferent.
 
Okay, thanks for the clarification. I agree with you, that we're trying to help Patchee out, in this limited medium. I believe "figuring it out" can't be done without some impartial, external insight into her situation; commisery can induce strength of conviction, which doesn't materialize on-demand.

I realize my posts can be overwhelming to digest. Rather than express my personal reactions to Patchee's posts with emotionally-laced exclamations, I wanted to be helpful with thoughtful analyses on her situation. It seemed this would a helpful consolation in her time of need, considering similar veins have been drained in previous, similar threads.
 
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