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Its a sad, sad situation ....... help please ladies

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Kevin: I''ve been wondering what happened with you. I''ve been away for a while so it was disheartening to read your post. I am not offering any advice because that''s been covered well by the others here. Just wanted to tell you to hang in there! Things seem very bleak now, but I assure you, the bad times will pass. It will take time. In the meantime, come here, vent and help others as you''ve done before. The wounds will heal in time.

My heart goes out to you. (hugs)
 
Kevin


There isn''t much to say that already hasn''t been said.

The only comment I can add is the following....

Consider the intent of what has happened. Regardless of her psychological being well or not being well, I truly believe that her actions have deliberate intent. About the worse thing you can experience in a relationship is betrayal. This is clearly what has happened.

These things happen for a reason.... Your situation should be a giant red light for you. Consider that because you are the person you are, you''re being protected and watched over so things don''t get worse, which in time they certainly seem to be headed in that direction. Your destiny is to be with someone else. Recognize this and move forward as you are able.

I have experienced a similar situation myself and know the pain you are feeling. I know that everyone here has poured out their hearts to you, as I certainly respect you for not holding this inside. You have certainly shown your true colors here, and you should be commended by all. It does take a lot of courage to "bear your soul" as you have done here. I know in time you''ll recover from this and see it with all the understanding and clarity you are able to.

Everyone has given such compassion, and I agree with almost 100% of the advice you got. I am really amazed at the posts in this thread.

If you''re ever in Florida, please let me know and come visit. Maybe the next snowstorm there you may want to escape to a warm sunny place.

Sincerely,

Rockdoc


Rockdoc
 
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Whoa!!! I am so sorry! I hope you will be able to sort out your feelings soon, but I also vote for the "CUT AND RUN". She is self-destructing and you would be doing the same by keeping an unhealthy relationship.
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I really hope you will be able to feel better soon!!! HUGS!!!!!!!!!
 
Thank you! Thank you!! Thank you all for all your kind words and compassion.

I feel a lot better than when I started this thread. Just trying to keep my head above the water. You all made me understand the situation. I had a good night''s sleep. Hope I get better over this long weekend.

RockDoc, I will certainly visit you when I am in Florida. Thanks for the invitation.
 
Kevin!

*HUGE HUGS* I was reading your first post and I was so upset for you. No one deserves to be treated this way. Obviously you love her, and want to help her but she is not in a place where she can be with you and make you happy. I can not imagine the betrayal you feel. You said that she was 90% sure that she wanted to be with you, but 10% unsure. Well you deserve 110% sure. You are smart, educated, and took amazing care of her. She did not realize and appreciate what she had. In addition, as the others have said there might be more to this story in terms of her mental health. She needs to resolve those issues before she can be with anybody.

That being said, you aren''t the only person I know going through this. My friend''s boyfriend of 7 years broke with her (out of nowhere) she was planning a wedding, and it was her first love. I think the most important thing to do is to remember this is a grieving process. It is like someone has died. You are fine one moment then crying the next. Eventually the distance between the ups and downs will get longer. As a researcher, I know you keep yourself busy, so that is not a problem. You WILL come out of this a stronger person!

Take care, we are here for you,

Ally
 
Just think, would''nt it be fantastic to find a girl that takes care of you the same way you take care of her? What a team you''d make! Now that''s a marriage!
 
I woke up this morning feeling better. I just received a call from her mom, and we spoke for little over half hour. I told her mom that I am through with this, and gave her the reasons discussed on this thread: how it will be hard for me to trust her again, and how she might do the same things again. Her mom really didn''t like what I said. I understand her mom''s emotions. Just like any other mom, wanting her daughter to get married to the best man possible. I don''t blame her mom. If I was the mom, I would feel the same way.

Anyway, her mom told me that "she" has not returned home since thursday. And that she found a letter in her daughter''s room, written to her by this other guy. It seems that the letter basically said something like "it is not been the same since you decided to break up with me. I can''t imagine a life without you. I am considering moving out of the city, and you will never have another chance to see me again. I know you mentioned about our difference in our cultures which is not to be worried about....and so on." From what it looks to me, it looks like like when "she" told me that she wants to get engaged on Feb 14th, she did broke up with this guy, but this guy kept sending her letters, inserting letters on her car windshield. On top of that, I think, since she knew that I will propose to her on Feb 14th, she probably was not sure that I am guy that she wants to spend the rest of her life with. Maybe...I am just speculating here based on the contents of the letter her mom found in "her" room.

Her mom sounded like she is feeling terrible. Mom more or less is the boss of her family. Her mom hid most of this stuff, but not all of it, to her father. Her father knows that her daughters goes missing, but he doesn''t know that many other things. Her mom told me over the phone today that she will discuss the issue with her husband, and see what they want to do. I suggested her mom that her daughter never have faced any consequence for her doings over the past 5 years that I knew her. It is about time that she faces consequences and understands the seriousness of the situation. I suggested her mother to somehow find her (Her mom knows this other guy''s house), bring her home, confront her as a family (which has never been done before), and see what she has to say. Since her mom was the only one to ask questions before, she didn''t care much. I thought that if the family as a whole confronts her, maybe, it could wake her up.

Anway, when I was feeling better and about to move on with my day, her mom called. After talking to her, and her kind of trying to convince me to help her in this issue, now I am feeling a little off. Should I help "her" family? I know I need to cut all relationships with anything that has to do with her. I am now strong in my vision that I can''t take her back, even if she comes back, wants to get engaged/married with me. I mentioned this to her mom, and told her that "she" needs to take care of herself first, be it mental or emotional. I told her mom, maybe, in the next 6 months or a year, if "she" goes through all conseling, therapy, etc, and if she still wants to be with me in all her heart, and if I am still available, then maybe I might consider getting together with her daughter. Her mom obviously was not happy about the situation. But I know I can''t feel sorry for her family and ruin my life.
 
Bluntly - it''s just not your problem anymore.
 
You''ve made your suggestions to her mom about how to handle the situation. I think your part in their family drama is over. You need to make a clean break and move on.
 
Date: 2/19/2005 10
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7:50 AM
Author: MaybeDayze,
Kevin,
You can't make this decision about anyone else, this is your life, your happiness.
Her family is simply that, HER family, they will advocate for her till the cows come home.
They are ineffect manipulating you, guilting you with such discussions.
It's time to talk to someone who has YOUR best interests at heart.
You need someone you love and trust to talk to, this is hard. It's not going to be easy.
Click to expand...

It sounds like her Mother is telling you what you want to hear. Any kind of change with her is going to take a long long time - and even then restarting a relationship that was once so soured will not be a good idea for either of you. Old patterns will re-emerge, even despite your and her best efforts.

I think it's probably best for you not to have these conversations with her mother, have them with your
Mother, or your best friend, your even your girlfriend.

Reread all the kind supportive things people have said in this thread.
(Everytime you feel weak or indoubt.)
And remember what Oldminer said, forgive, but never ever forget.
Personally, I think forgiveness is much further down the road.
You are going to have to follow the natural course of grieving.

Grieving Process

Or

How are you feeling today?
 
Her mom sounds very manipulative to me. First off, why is she hiding all this stuff from her husband? Secondly, why is she burdening you with their family problems instead of her husband? You hit the nail on the head in that the mom should get the family (not you) to confront "her" about the problems. Thirdly, if what you say is true in that "she" has never suffered any consequences for her bad/self-destructive behavior, no wonder the poor girl is so messed up!!!! It sounds like the entire family needs to get in for some counseling and the parents need Nanny 911 parent training.

I agree with Erin. Bottom line is, their family is not your resposibility. Maybe you can tell her you still care about the family and will provide support (up to a defined, reasonable extent), but any further than that is inappropriate since it is not your responsibility.

Good luck!

Oh and by the way - as a sidenote I think the picture for your name is a little freaky!!! LOL!!!
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I forgot to tell you this.

When I saw her last on Thursday, when she came to my apt to make dinner for me, she asked where I have hidden the ring that I bought for her. I said it is safely hidden somehwere. She responded saying that she found only the box and not the ring inside. I said "what you already searched for it? .. and the ring is missing?". She said "yeah, about 10 days ago, when I was here, I searched for it, when you went out to get soemthing, and found it, but now I see only the box, and not the ring." With her being there, I made sure that that the ring is still there safe. She looked at the ring yet again, and was commenting to me about its size, 1.71ct EC. She wore it in her finger and was observing how big it was. I told her that is big, and that most people generally buy in the range of about 1 carat. She said she is going to wear the ring for 5 minutes, and then put it back, whcih she did. I was happy at that moment. But now when I think about it, it is just confusing. Was she mentally sane/stable? What does this mean?

Whatever be it, I am so glad that I decided to post my story. If I would have known that I would be feeling this better, I would have done it long time ago.

Dodger Gurl, I just changed my avatar. I drew this thing about 6 years ago. I didn't know what I was drawing, but when I looked at it at the end, it looks like a person.
 
Honestly, I don''t know what that means. It could just mean that she was being a girl and really liked having a big ol'' sparkly thing on her hand . . . . LOL I''m of no help here.
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Kevin, I agree with Erin.

It may sound harsh, but this is now a family problem, not yours. I really feel for her mother and I realize that she is just desperate to get through to her daughter and get her help... but she is using your emotional attachment and vulnerability to keep you inolved in a situation that is not good for you.

And... I feel that if her mother and father have to bear some responsibility for her behavior ~ had they addressed it much earlier on then it could have saved you a lot of heartache... I don''t care how old I get, if I were living at home with my folks, disappearing for days or weeks without a phone call would not be tolerated.

To be honest, I don''t even know if your involvement would be helpful to her Kevin ~ it will just confirm to her that you are completely devoted and vulnerable, regardless of her actions, and she can use that to manipulate you further (and hurt you more). Instead of letting her use your love for her as a crutch, let her use your leaving as motivation to get her life together.

If it were me, I would tell her mother that you would love to help, that you deeply care about her daughter and her whole family, but you truly believe that you cannot remain involved in any way and do not honestly think it would help the healing process for anyone.
 
Kevin

1. Go with the clean break, don''t let her mom guilt you into staying in an unhealthy relationship or help in fixing their family problems. Her mom is just as guilty as she is for hiding and denying the issues.

2. She is in love with the idea of the big beautiful ring, but not in love with you. What girl doesn''t want to wear a beautiful diamond?
 
I''m trying to think about my mother and how she''d react if I was seeing different guys while planning to be engaged to another man...First off, she''d never try to manipulate the guy to stay with me, she''d most likely have a huge talk with me on how I need to get my act together and be honest with the guy. I just think that''s very dispicable.

I realize you have known her family for a long time, and that makes the break slightly more complicated in some sense, because you care about them as well...but the mother is obviously not showing a similar sense of concern for you or else she''d recognize that you deserve the best wife possible.

My opinion holds the same: They don''t deserve you and a clean break is the best possible solution. And that would be a clean break from the family too, so they can''t do any more of thisl "oh she feels so bad" stuff.

And this was an afterthought, but if the girl broke up with the guy she was cheating on you with before valentines day and knew you were going to propose then, why in the world did she disappear on you!? Seems a littl sketchy if that''s really what the letter the mother found.
 
Kevin,

I agree clean breakup. Be sincere to her family and be true to yourself. You've opened your eyes and move on from there. They will be able to take care of it as a family on their own. You've done your part, staying with her, after all what she has done to you. It takes a lot of courage as a man to show his feelings and emotions. And I give you the thumbs up for that. Sometimes it's good to let it all out. And afterwards you do feel better and I'm glad you do. In regards to her wearing the ring and observing how big it was... I didn't see anything mentioned that she liked it. I just shake my head and think what a mental golddigger. No, she definitely does not diserve you at all. What a lucky woman, who will meet you one day! By the way I love your new avatar... a person bowling!
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Her mother tried so many times to talk to her about this issue. Every time, her mother tries to talk to her, she goes "I don''t have anything to say/talk about." She did admit to her mom that she is doing the worst things, and that she has hurt my feelings in worst possible ways. Her mom did bring up the issue of her having to decide between "him" and I several times. She is of a kind where she is scared/afraid of making decisions. As per her mom''s words, she has told several times to her mother that she wants to be with me. And her mom has brought her up the issue about 6 months ago, when I moved into DC from dallas. Her mom basically asked her "do you know why he is moving to DC? Do things accordingly. If you want to be with him, you need to stop all the other things, and that if you don''t want to be with him, you need to let him know."

So far, it is only her mother who has confronted her. All her sisters are sick of her actions. Her mother told me that she is afraid of serious confrontation as she fears that something disastrous could happen. I told her today morning when I spoke to her, that it has reached to a point that nothing disastraous could surpass what has already happenned.
 
I understand how it feels to have bonded with a family and to be upset at the thought of losing that family which has become somewhat like a second family to you. But however you slice the bread, her family is NOT yours. I am sure that they love you with her because you probably make their daughter a better person and also as you noted, a mother wants to see her daughter with someone who will care for her.

BUT if this mother really knows her daughter, she should be worried for YOU and letting you go and move on rather than trying to keep you invested in this drama of their lives to make themselves feel better. As I noted, you are not a babysitter and this mother cannot expect you to be hanging around taking care of her daughter's problems. This is a bigger issue than just you. It's not fair for the mother to drag you back in..it's hard on you because there is no future with this girl. Don't even think about 'well if she changes, maybe then'. You have to move on and make a clean break and think about being happy for yourself. The way I figured it in the past is that you never know what the future holds and it does not mean that this gal will never be ready for someone like you. But leave it up to fate...that is my motto...if it is meant to be..someday it will. Otherwise it will not be and that is what is supposed to happen. You can't force anything IMO.

My girlfriend had this horrible relationship with this horrible man who had a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde personality, sweet at times with her and overall really great person but had so many insecurities he would put on this differernt persona around others. My gf obviously saw his best qualities which is why she stuck around, but the other stuff was just soooo prevalent and he was so insecure and had so many issues she realized she could not fix him or make him come around, these were issues deep seated from YEARS of nurturing them and it is very hard to break habits. She had become close with his family and really loved them and it was hard for her to let them go but thankfully his mother knew her son and knew he was letting a great thing go but she was not going to hold my gf into the circle when she knew it was best for her to get out. It took my GF about a year to get over this guy, she really loved him...and considered marriage with him...and yes it is like a death when you break up with someone you consider a future with...it's horrible...but you have to buck up and move on and know that you deserve and will have a better life.

Also, come on! There should be no 'deciding' about who to choose when you are close enough to discuss marriage and she knows you have a ring. How horrible is she? Knowing you have this ring and having this other guy on the side and still not being sure even though she has been leading you to think this is it? Evil! This girl is serious trouble...and her parents need to step in and do some parenting if they do not want her to continue along this path!

Good luck and do not get sucked back into this drama! Look out for YOURSELF now....there are a few times in one's life when I think it's perfectly acceptable to be selfish and think of what you need...this is one of those times or else you will never begin healing.
 
Her mom has told me several times, that she will fully understand if I decide to move on without her daughter. But like any other mom, she just feels so bad that her daughter is letting the nicest guy go away.
 
Now it''s like you have her blessing. She doesn''t blame you if you leave either. No matter how much the mom cares for you - she has to keep her daughter''s best interest at heart - it''s her child she cares about in the end - not you.
 
Kevin,

I hope your Saturday is looking up for you. You must know that if you "HELP" her family in this situation you may get sucked back in. Thats not what you need for yourself. If her family needs help with her im sure there are counselors where they live. I know if you do not have the money you can go to one for free or sliding scales. Don;t let yourself get sucked in again, it will be harder to back out of it. You don''t want to go thru the saga over and over again. Its more draining than physical stress. I hope you can get out of the house and do something you enjoy to lift your spirits this weekend. My best to you.


Lori
 
kevine,
I''m glad things are looking up for you and that you''re feeling better. Whatever you do don''t let her mother try to change your mind. yes you feel bad for her mother but honestly it''s just not your problem anymore!! Also I would''nt take any more of her mother''s calls. Do you have caller ID? Just a thought, but I think you need to make a clean break and her mother is just going to complicate things for you. Stay busy, stay active this too shall pass. Good luck!
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Date: 2/19/2005 2:27:31 PM
Author: kevinraja
Her mother tried so many times to talk to her about this issue. Every time, her mother tries to talk to her, she goes ''I don''t have anything to say/talk about.'' She did admit to her mom that she is doing the worst things, and that she has hurt my feelings in worst possible ways. Her mom did bring up the issue of her having to decide between ''him'' and I several times. She is of a kind where she is scared/afraid of making decisions. As per her mom''s words, she has told several times to her mother that she wants to be with me. And her mom has brought her up the issue about 6 months ago, when I moved into DC from dallas. Her mom basically asked her ''do you know why he is moving to DC? Do things accordingly. If you want to be with him, you need to stop all the other things, and that if you don''t want to be with him, you need to let him know.''

So far, it is only her mother who has confronted her. All her sisters are sick of her actions. Her mother told me that she is afraid of serious confrontation as she fears that something disastrous could happen. I told her today morning when I spoke to her, that it has reached to a point that nothing disastraous could surpass what has already happenned.
Click to expand...
You are right, Kevin, the disastrous has already occurred and her mother should be even more afraid of further disastrous consequences that will certainly occur if she does not confront her daughter. It is time for them to be parents and for you to step away and take care of yourself.

I totally agree with Mara... Call it what you want but "fate" or "destiny" or "divine intervention" has a way of pushing us in the right direction or making the wrong direction a very difficult and tumultuous path. I believe that when you make the best decisions for yourself, a lot of things will really start to fall into place and you will be amazed at how much doubt and fear you were carrying around and how great you will begin to feel. Not to say that it will be immediate, but I don''t think it will take long before you begin to feel much less burdened and realize how much this girl has been dragging you down.
 
Everyone is right that you should move on. This is a given. But, you should also consider looking into therapy for co-dependency. I don''t think this girl is as "evil" because you''ve encouraged this behavior for years and she''s learned that this is okay *through you*. You''ve let her treat you poorly and have taken her back. I''m sorry this happened, but now you''re still, even after reading all these reponses and letting us know you''re agreeing with what''s being said, having her family guilt trip you around and you''re ALLOWING this.

Talk to someone because, first off you deserve MORE than being treated poorly and second, after moving on, you need to reestablish what it means to have a balanced relationship before even considering reentering the dating community.

Be STRONG, but be realistic and get a bit of support for yourself beyond just responses from an internet forum. Talk to a "REAL" person.
 
People who are self destructive are not happy unless they are also destroying others around them. If you think you are unhappy now, just think how unhappy you would be if you married her.

Your love for her was sincere and you allowed her to think that no matter how badly she treated you and what she did, you were still willing to take her back. You were both young when you met and she has obviously stayed immature and unreliable.

You sound like a wonderful and deserving guy who really put everything you could into making this relationship work. I can understand that her mother is heartbroken about what her daughter is giving up but it is not your problem. You have to look after your own best interests now and nothing can really be done to salvage a situation like this. She is obviously a very unstable person in need of professional help and you should not let her drag you down with her.

You deserve someone who will appreciate a man with your qualities and intelligence and will make you happy. You will be sad for a while because you had hopes. But I think when you meet someone who really loves you, you will see what you were missing with this relationship. Marriage can bring great happiness but there are no guarantees as to what obstacles you may have to face and she does not sound like the kind of person who will be able to handle her share.

Consider yourself lucky to have found all this out. A bad marriage will be far more costly than a $10,000 ring.
 
Date: 2/19/2005 11:39:48 PM
Author: solange
People who are self destructive are not happy unless they are also destroying others around them. If you think you are unhappy now, just think how unhappy you would be if you married her.


Your love for her was sincere and you allowed her to think that no matter how badly she treated you and what she did, you were still willing to take her back. You were both young when you met and she has obviously stayed immature and unreliable.


You sound like a wonderful and deserving guy who really put everything you could into making this relationship work. I can understand that her mother is heartbroken about what her daughter is giving up but it is not your problem. You have to look after your own best interests now and nothing can really be done to salvage a situation like this. She is obviously a very unstable person in need of professional help and you should not let her drag you down with her.


You deserve someone who will appreciate a man with your qualities and intelligence and will make you happy. You will be sad for a while because you had hopes. But I think when you meet someone who really loves you, you will see what you were missing with this relationship. Marriage can bring great happiness but there are no guarantees as to what obstacles you may have to face and she does not sound like the kind of person who will be able to handle her share.


Consider yourself lucky to have found all this out. A bad marriage will be far more costly than a $10,000 ring.
Click to expand...

Solange is right on. Though this breakup is very painful, it would be a lot more painful if you were actually married, and if god forbid there were kids involved.

When you find a woman who truly loves and cherishes you, this experience will make you appreciate that love.

You need to make a clean break, and not see her or her family anymore. At least for a long while, until the wounds heal. And do NOT LET HER TRY ON THAT RING AGAIN, DO YOU HEAR!!!!!!????? It is not hers, she is not worthy of it, don''t even let her LOOK at it.

You need to sit down and think about how you feel about yourself- you have put up with an enormous amount of abuse and deception, and to me that shows that you have some self esteem issues. You are a sensitive, considerate, intelligent man, but why do you think you deserve to be treated like this? I have a feeling you would have continued to put up with this behavior, and even married her, if she hadn''t pulled her disappearing act.

Best of luck, Kevin, we''re all rooting for your happiness.
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How should I do it?

Thank you for all your support again. I haven''t formally broken-up with her yet. The last time I met her was on Thursday. Due to my series of questions about her actions, she left my apt saying that she will need time to think, and that she will decide within a couple of days.

Now, since I haven''t officially broken-up with her, how should I do this? Should I arrange to meet her in person and talk? Since I have taken all her abuse before, and everytime I have said that this will be one last chance, will she really taking me seriously when I mention about her break-up? As far as today, I believe she has not returned to her family. I don''t believe she will return today or tomorrow. She will go to her work on Tuesday from wherever she is staying now. She will, in my mind, try to contact me during the week, probably tuesday. How should I do the official break-up?

1) Should I contact her? or should I wait for her to contact me and talk to her then? Generally when she does her disappearing acts, whenever she calls me, I say we need to talk, and she goes "not now, ...am at work, we will talk later." When I ask her "later today?," she usually goes "okay" and later tries to give some excuse from meetting.

2) What should I talk? How should I formally end this? Should I show emotions...should I be angry or be more mature and professional. She is a kind of a person who always wants to be on top. The less I talk, and less emotions I show, the more the guiltiness she feels, from my past experience. Should I make her feel guilty?

3) Should I mention that I forgive her actions, and tha I will never forget them. I don''t want her to think that since I forgived her, that there is still hope for her to get back with me.

4) The most important thing is to make her believe that it is "really over." The one thing that I know is that when she tries to call/phone me, and if I don''t pick-up, she keeps calling numerous times until I pick up. She can''t stand not knowing why I am not picking up the phone, nor knowing where I am.

5) I have never in the past told her "we are through, or it is over." Every time something like this happens, I always tell her that if she wants to be someone she needs to tell me so that I can leave OR if she wants to be with me, she can''t do any more of this. So far, I always let her decide whether she wants it to be over or not.

In her mind, she likely thinks tha i am for granted. I am writing all this so that you all can undersatnd her character, and suggest me the best terms possible in how I should contact her and do the official break-up. The most important thing is to make her believe that what I say is really what I mean.
 
Be yourself, be serious, be very, very final about it. There is no more "decide to be wirh me or its over"... she has no choice in this anymore and yours is already made. Even if you have not advised her yet, it''s already over. Your relationship is finished. You won''t take this anymore and will never give her another chance to make it right. You have advised her family and you don''t want her to contact you anymore. You will tell her this in person, then you will change your phone number and your locks. And there is no going back, ever. Have all her things ready in a bag so she doesn''t have anything to hold over your head.

Then I strongly suggest you plan yourself a long vacation somewhere far away, to get your mind off things. If you feel you are lonely, especially important is to create yourself an account on an online dating site. DO NOT MEET ANYONE YET, not for at least 6 to 9 months, but dating online is a really, really great way to stay preoccupied and get to know other women without having to commit or get physically involved, you can spend hours chatting with people and just knowing that there are other women interested in you will help you feel like you can ride out the pain.
 
Do whatever is easiest for you. Speak from your head and your heart and tell her how it is, period.
I suggest you tell her in a manner that doesn''t stir things up, for you or her.
Keep it calm, cool, and collected - in a neutral location, not your house or hers.
No need to make her feel guilty.
she''ll feel guilty soon enough - when she realizes how much she''s lost.
I suggest also, that you change your cell and home phone numbers.
She''s going to call non-stop when you break up with her. (Goes with her personality type.)
 
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