Khalil Mahmoud

[Ella]

Folks, a reminder, no politicians, no political parties. Including in link headlines. Keep it about the policies.

We also do not allow debates about religion, and I have removed a number of posts that violated that.

Last but not least, I cannot believe I need to say this here but we do not allow glorification of hate groups. A hate group that does not target you, but targets others, is still a hate group. We have members from all walks of life here, respect them.

 

[missy]

Criticizing a government, usa or israel, is absolutely part of free speech. Criticizing a government is not antisemitic.

Agree. Criticizing the government is not anti semitic. And is protected.

Calling to globalize the infitada is however not protected speech
Calling on his supporters to achieve their objective “by any means necessary” is not protected

Calling for violence is not free speech

 

[missy]

“U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) will begin considering aliens’ antisemitic activity on social media and the physical harassment of Jewish individuals as grounds for denying immigration benefit requests. This will immediately affect aliens applying for lawful permanent resident status, foreign students and aliens affiliated with educational institutions linked to antisemitic activity.”


“There is no room in the USA for the rest of the world’s terrorist sympathizers to admit them or let them stay here. Anyone who thinks they can come to the USA and hide behind the First Amendment to advocate for anti semitic violence and terrorism- think again. You are not welcome here.

Under this guidance USCIS will consider social media content that indicates an alien endorsing, espousing, or supporting antisemitic terrorism, antisemitic terrorist organizations, or other antisemitic activities as a negative factor in any USCIS discretionary analysis when adjudicating immigration benefit requests. This guidance is effective immediately.
“

 

[Rockdiamond]

Agree. Criticizing the government is not anti semitic. And is protected.

We are in agreement.
Can we agree that criticism of the Israeli Government is often considered by some to be anti-Semitism?

I'm sure you see where this is going- it's a slippery slope if we have the government going through social media posts, and using comments made as a basis to imprison people. And imprisonment it is.
Not like you get a letter telling you you've got to go.
It's a knock on the door, in the middle of the night.
Actually, it's now ok in broad daylight.
This is truly horrifying for many of us.
These are otherwise law abiding people- not citizens, that's true...but they are here legally. Citizen or not, does the government have the right to whisk people away to prison because of Facebook postings?
The subject of this thread- was he a flight risk? He's got a wife and kid.
Bail?
They give people ankle bracelets.
Nope, off to Louisiana.
Please do not mistake this as me defending the guy, or anything he's done. There has been no evidence of him being violent in action, that I've seen. It's our rights being stripped away by policy.
This isn't like a debate over congestion pricing.
These policies are impacting people in a whole new way.

 

[missy]

Again, constructive criticism of government in general is good. I do it too. Both Israel and USA. Try doing that somewhere else and depending on the country you’ll be in big doo doo. I don’t want to upset Ella further so won’t share the specifics but google what happened to the poor Palestinian man who was recently mercilessly tortured and executed by his own government


I support deportation of all here who support terrorists and terrorist groups. I stand by my words in the previous posts. 100%


There is absolutely NO room here for those who wish to destroy our country and our way of life. Is 9/11 so far away you don’t remember it? I do. I was right there that day. Remember the bombing in 1993? Windows of the World? I sure do. They are playing the long game David. I repeat. No room in our country for those who support terrorists and terrorism

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

Due process. If Khalil Mohammed….. or the worst person you know- if they don’t have due process, neither do you and I. This is so clear to many of us.
Getting sent, by accident, to an El Salvador prison- and we can’t even get them back. Oops.
If it can happen to them, it can happen to you. Standing up for the rights of people you vehemently disagree with is the only way we keep OUR rights.
A message is being sent- continually at this point. Be careful what you say. No unpopular voices or opinions will be tolerated.
First they came for the Palestinians but I wasn’t one ( and hated them) so I didn’t say anything. We all know how the rest of that goes.

I guess I've been hugging the wrong premises and now know all Americans need to join these protests, allow the damage that is being done and try to remove Jewish students from their colleges through intimidation, threats and harassment, We are not to put our foot down in this country and show that agitators against a certain people are to be treated with kid gloves and preference. Just think of the uprising in this country if we all followed Khalil Mohammed and his ilk into the streets and shops and public areas. Just think if everyone got on board and backed him, it would certainly be appreciated by that element. Maybe we aren't far from that after reading these posts. Who knew?

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

So I should "relax" in regards to breaking trade agreements and tariffs, but I should start freaking out about anti semitism?
I live in NYC, not afraid at all.
But if I am concerned it's more about white supremacists, not Arabs.
When will they start deporting KKK members?

Please advise as to where all these KKK members are living in this country? Are they on the streets of NYC or what? What actions have they done or is this just another distraction from the conversation?

 

[missy]

I guess I've been hugging the wrong premises and now know all Americans need to join these protests, allow the damage that is being done and try to remove Jewish students from their colleges through intimidation, threats and harassment, We are not to put our foot down in this country and show that agitators against a certain people are to be treated with kid gloves and preference. Just think of the uprising in this country if we all followed Khalil Mohammed and his ilk into the streets and shops and public areas. Just think if everyone got on board and backed him, it would certainly be appreciated by that element. Maybe we aren't far from that after reading these posts. Who knew?

100%
If only everyone, including the people in Gaza, had protested for the RETURN of the hostages immediately this war would never have taken on a life of its own. If everyone here, and all over the world, had demanded the hostages be released (the right thing to do if you are a decent human) this war and all its causalities could have been avoided. But instead they started screaming their slogans which I won't repeat here. Slogans that call for violence and death. It could have all been so different. If only people had given a damn

 

[Rockdiamond]

Just think of the uprising in this country if we all followed Khalil Mohammed and his ilk into the streets and shops and public areas

Yes that would be horrible. But it never happened.
The man is not even accused of committing a crime.
I don’t agree at all with his ideas. But he certainly has the right to have his own ideas. Or used to anyway.

Please advise as to where all these KKK members are living in this country?

Over the past years the FBI identified domestic hate groups as a threat. I’m not a law enforcement officer. There have definitely been violent incidents involving domestic terror groups.
Tiki torches.
“Jews will not replace us”
Maybe they weren’t KKK. I’m not an expert. But for sure, those were not Arabic people.

**edited to remove discussion about religious stereotypes**

If only that were true. It’s by no means “truth”
Sadly a lot of different groups of people feel like that.
Using hate to get us to give up our own humanity… and they win.
Lumping a billion people into one category. The vast majority of ALL religions just want to live in peace.
Pretty much every religion has extreme members.
This isn’t about religion- or the Middle East. It’s about OUR rights. Right here.
What went on at Columbia and other colleges wasn’t ok. I don’t see anyone defending intimidation tactics.
But this policy is NOT being enacted to protect Jews or stop antisemitism. It’s designed to stifle any speech the government doesn’t like.
And based on discussions like this, it’s working.

 

[missy]

It’s about OUR rights. Right here.

No. It is about rights ALL over the world. Israel is the ONLY country in the Middle East to allow people full rights. To be who they are. The freedom that NO other country in the Middle East allows. If Israel falls eventually we ALL fall. Do you not see that David?

And you are wrong. Where do you get your statistics? Show me please.
The vast majority do not want peace. If only. The vast majority have remained silent.
I repeat. If EVERYONE called for the release of the hostages this war would have been OVER a long time ago
They (Hamas) don't give a damn about their own people
They use them as pawns in their evil game

Pretty much every religion has extreme members.

Not to the same degree

What went on at Columbia and other colleges wasn’t ok. I don’t see anyone defending intimidation tactics.

Then you aren't seeing what I am seeing.
A PSer said we were "exaggerating"
Other PSers have said very hurtful things
They cannot even see how biased they are
Many remain deluded on what really happened and what is happening
Swallowing social media
Swallowing the statistics Hamas themselves put out
And ignoring the facts because it doesn't suit *their* narrative
They cannot face the facts because it proves they have been wrong all along

I am sorry you don't see it
I am sorry you think I am the one who is wrong
Everything you think about me I think about you
We do not see eye to eye at all
I would love to say it is OK
And I would love to say let's agree to disagree
But it is not OK

Ultimately you can believe anything you want to just as I can
But please understand
We are in a fight for our very survival
You dont think another Jewish Holocaust can happen?
It sure can and it sure did and it can again

I know you don't agree with one word I am writing
But I am writing it for anyone else who cares to have an open mind
My mind is open and these are the facts as I see them
Every word I write is not written lightly
And you know I am not the only one who feels that way
Though on PS I am one of very few
But that is OK because PS is not representative of people in general

And even if everyone in the world was against me
I still know I am speaking the truth




"A Lie Doesn't Become Truth, Wrong Doesn't Become Right and Evil Doesn't Become Good, Just Because It's Accepted by A Majority"

 

[Ella]

Folks, last warning, no vilifying any particular religious or political group or time outs will be given. We should not be reducing any human to stereotypes here.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Missy- maybe you want the thread closed. That would be sad.
This is not about religion. I know you want it to be. Your views are crystal clear.
Policy. We’re talking about US government policy.
It’s against our constitution for the government to promote- or discourage religion.
This policy is NOT about protecting any religion- but it’s being sold that way.
What…. Like all of a sudden everyone loves us so much?? Right wing extremists are donning kippas???
The US government is putting people in jail for their beliefs. Not criminal activity- their thoughts.
To me, that’s a far greater threat than Hamas- to both Americans AND Israelis.
But your point about us never seeing eye to eye on this is spot on.

 

[missy]

Missy- maybe you want the thread closed. That would be sad.

No David, I do not want this thread closed.
Though some have posted articles with links about people we aren't supposed to mention
Maybe they want this thread closed.
I am happy to continue discussing the issues as best we can following within the guidelines Ella set

It’s against our constitution for the government to promote- or discourage religion.

This government is protecting people who have been intimidated, and physically assaulted and prevented from attending classes.
Unlike the previous administration who did nothing. Absolutely nothing to protect their students. That is a fact David. One you conveniently ignore but nonetheless a fact.

The US government is putting people in jail for their beliefs. Not criminal activity- their thoughts

Have to agree to disagree. Terrorist supporters are not innocent.
Causing violence and calling for violence
Whether or not they get deported or get to stay we all know they are guilty.
Though I understand you and others here cannot face the facts since they do not strengthen your narrative
Whatever happens in the courts and with their due process we will all have to acccept the decision
Like it or not
I am fully cognizant of the fact justice is not always served
And if Mahmoud gets to stay that is exactly how I will feel
But I wont take to the streets calling for violence
In the name of doing what is right
Because I don't believe in violence against others
I am a peaceful person
I do believe all who support terrorism and are in this country should be deported
This is not about free speech and just because you say it is doesn't make it true
SUPPORTING terrorism is NOT OK

 

[Rockdiamond]

we all know they are guilty.

“Everyone knows Jews are money hungry-it’s a fact”. That was - and is the thoughts of many people today.
We both agree antisemitism exists.
This “fact” is part of it.
We don’t ALL know anything. Many disagree with both / either of us.
There ARE facts here. No trial. No crime committed.
That doesn’t suit a different narrative.
The danger to our way of life isn’t ideas. It’s the government preventing the free exchange of ideas.
Like banning books. When they do that it probably causes the book to get more attention. And it never kills the actual ideas.
The government’s actions in this case could easily cause more people to side with Palestinians.
If you believe it’s about antisemitism you’re sorely mistaken.

 

[missy]

There ARE facts here. No trial. No crime committed.

Let due process continue
Whatever happens we all have to abide by it


"
Khalil allegedly also broke the law by failing to report his membership in certain organizations when he applied for residency.

"Regardless of his allegations concerning political speech, Khalil withheld membership in certain organizations and failed to disclose continuing employment by the Syria Office in the British Embassy in Beirut," federal investigators argue in newly filed court papers.

"It is black-letter law that misrepresentations in this context are not protected speech. Thus, Khalil’s First Amendment allegations are a red herring, and there is an independent basis to justify removal sufficient to foreclose Khalil’s constitutional claim here.”

Also

"Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 that authorizes the secretary of state to personally order the deportation of people whose presence in the U.S. the secretary believes "would have potentially serious adverse foreign policy consequences for the United States."

"Khalil's activities "undermine U.S. policy to combat anti-Semitism around the world and in the United States"

"Homeland Security officials charged him with several additional civil violations. and they allege he withheld information on his 2024 green-card application, including his work history with a United Nations relief agency and his involvement with a pro-Palestinian activist group at Columbia University."

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Due process. If Khalil Mohammed….. or the worst person you know- if they don’t have due process, neither do you and I. This is so clear to many of us.
Getting sent, by accident, to an El Salvador prison- and we can’t even get them back. Oops.
If it can happen to them, it can happen to you. Standing up for the rights of people you vehemently disagree with is the only way we keep OUR rights.
A message is being sent- continually at this point. Be careful what you say. No unpopular voices or opinions will be tolerated.
First they came for the Palestinians but I wasn’t one ( and hated them) so I didn’t say anything. We all know how the rest of that goes.

Agreed. I will protest on behalf of anyone if there is no due process because once you start chipping away at that, anyone who isn’t part of the “power” class is in danger. I’m a naturalized immigrant, my spouse is Jewish, we both are lgbtq, and we’re both freaked out at the lack of due process and intimidation. There was a Canadian woman on The Daily recently describing her horrifying experience in detention for overstaying her visa. There’s been a doctor from Brown who was refused entry back to the US and deported back to Lebanon. There’s the man who was sent to El Salvador “mistakenly”. It’s all very concerning, and anyone who has ever been part of a marginalized group should be wary of the “punish first, clarify later” process that seems to target a group. You should not be able to arrest anyone with no charges at the time of arrest. They may just be picking on people for now that most view as villains and have committed crimes, but once they cement the power and precedent, they can turn it on anyone. Due process needs to be protected, honestly even when currently observed the experience can be inhumane, but at least it’s something.

I’ve recently been mulling over what my “rubicon” event would be for leaving the US due to my own safety concerns rather than staying and protesting and taking care of my patients. I think my red line for now is anyone getting arrested for being lgbtq (rights are being rolled back already but so far no actual arrests to my knowledge) or if the US starts government backed anti-Chinese propaganda. Not just trump during Covid but actual calling the Chinese the enemy etc in setting of a Cold War type situation. I learned about the Japanese camps during WWII and that modern courts after the fact upheld their legality. No thank you, I don’t want to be here for that.

Edited to add: my Jewish partner thinks it’s darkly humorous that he recently got German citizenship due to his grandmother being forced to flee during the holocaust, and is considering Germany to be potentially safe harbor depending on how the US goes the next few years.

 

[adlgel]

I do believe all who support terrorism and are in this country should be deported

Two questions come to mind when I read this.

1.) Do you support this only when the accused gets due process or do you support it whether or not the accused is afforded due process?

2.) What is the definition of "support terrorism"? How do we determine whether or not someone has supported terrorism? if someone attends a Pro-Palestine rally are they supporting terrorism? If someone expresses their dismay on Facebook at the ongoing loss of life in Palestine are they supporting terrorism, regardless of whether or not they also express similar dismay at the loss of life of Israelis?

 

[missy]

Two questions come to mind when I read this.

1.) Do you support this only when the accused gets due process or do you support it whether or not the accused is afforded due process?

2.) What is the definition of "support terrorism"? How do we determine whether or not someone has supported terrorism? if someone attends a Pro-Palestine rally are they supporting terrorism? If someone expresses their dismay on Facebook at the ongoing loss of life in Palestine are they supporting terrorism, regardless of whether or not they also express similar dismay at the loss of life of Israelis?

Due process always! I only support when due process is engaged

Supporting terrorism. Calling on your group to accomplish their goals by any means necessary
Calling for globalization of the infitada
Two examples of what I consider not acceptable behavior in the USA

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

Two questions come to mind when I read this.

1.) Do you support this only when the accused gets due process or do you support it whether or not the accused is afforded due process?

2.) What is the definition of "support terrorism"? How do we determine whether or not someone has supported terrorism? if someone attends a Pro-Palestine rally are they supporting terrorism? If someone expresses their dismay on Facebook at the ongoing loss of life in Palestine are they supporting terrorism, regardless of whether or not they also express similar dismay at the loss of life of Israelis?

I would support the immediate deportation of any alien who is attempting to garner support to harass, intimidate and injure a certain group of people in the United States.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

Yes that would be horrible. But it never happened.
The man is not even accused of committing a crime.
I don’t agree at all with his ideas. But he certainly has the right to have his own ideas. Or used to anyway.

It never happened because that type of incident was nipped in the bud. He can have all the ideas he wants but he can not work to cause insurrection in growing scale against a certain group of our citizens.

Over the past years the FBI identified domestic hate groups as a threat. I’m not a law enforcement officer. There have definitely been violent incidents involving domestic terror groups.
Tiki torches.
“Jews will not replace us”
Maybe they weren’t KKK. I’m not an expert. But for sure, those were not Arabic people.

So it was a distraction from the discussion..

But this policy is NOT being enacted to protect Jews or stop antisemitism. It’s designed to stifle any speech the government doesn’t like.

I feel this statement is ridiculous!

 

[Matata]

I repeat. If EVERYONE called for the release of the hostages this war would have been OVER a long time ago

Why do you think that? Releasing the hostages would not have stopped Hamas from further attacks on Israel since their goal is the extermination of the Jewish people. Netanyahu said he wanted to exterminate Hamas which means that he would have continued the war to achieve that end even if the hostages had been released early on. Or are you thinking that with the hostages released, Netanyahu would not have held back and instead of strategically striking targets would have blown up the entire country?

 

[Matata]

I feel this statement is ridiculous!

He's right. Our government is using this issue for two purposes -- 1. to stop anti semitism and 2. to render free speech moot. It is obvious from the stifling of the press, targeting of organizations and individuals who disagree with the government's positions, and the great retribution campaign of the president that our right to free speech is under assault.

 

[missy]

Why do you think that? Releasing the hostages would not have stopped Hamas from further attacks on Israel since their goal is the extermination of the Jewish people. Netanyahu said he wanted to exterminate Hamas which means that he would have continued the war to achieve that end even if the hostages had been released early on. Or are you thinking that with the hostages released, Netanyahu would not have held back and instead of strategically striking targets would have blown up the entire country?

I believe if there had been more public support (including those who are pro Palestinian) for releasing the hostages and more pressure put on Hamas this could have been over by now. Instead we still have American citizens being held hostage for over 18 months. No won wins this war. We all lose.

 

[Matata]

I would support the immediate deportation of any alien who is attempting to garner support to harass, intimidate and injure a certain group of people in the United States.

Do you agree with the president's plan to do the same to American citizens? He wants to deport them to El Salvador.
What about the Neo-Nazi groups in the US, should they be deprived of their right to free speech, their citizenship, and deported?

Neo-Nazi

Neo-Nazi groups share a hatred for Jews and a love for Adolf Hitler and Nazi Germany. While they also hate nonwhite people, LGBTQ people and even sometimes Christians, they perceive “the Jew” as their cardinal enemy.

www.splcenter.org

 

[Matata]

I believe if there had been more public support (including those who are pro Palestinian) for releasing the hostages and more pressure put on Hamas this could have been over by now. Instead we still have American citizens being held hostage for over 18 months. No won wins this war. We all lose.

Interesting, isn't it, that our government has been so quiet recently about the American hostages. Perhaps they're too busy drawing up plans for the resort they want to build there when the war ends, if it ever ends.

Hostages are unfortunately easily forgotten by the general public, especially when their captivity goes on for a long time and especially when there isn't a famous figure -- celeb or athlete -- among them. People are peculiar that way.

 

[missy]

Interesting, isn't it, that our government has been so quiet recently about the American hostages. Perhaps they're too busy drawing up plans for the resort they want to build there when the war end, if it ever ends.

Hostages are unfortunately easily forgotten by the general public, especially when their captivity goes on for a long time and especially when there isn't a famous figure -- celeb or athlete -- among them. People are peculiar that way.

Agree
I have no answers unfortunately
I don’t know how we’re all going to get out of this huge mess
So much suffering
On both sides

 

[Rockdiamond]

He's right. Our government is using this issue for two purposes -- 1. to stop anti semitism and 2. to render free speech moot

Thank you.
I am skeptical of point 1.
The people responsible for these policies…. They have goals. They are using this issue ( antisemitism) to generate division.
I ask again - where were they when the Tiki torches came out???

Missy- we’ve had discussions where you’ve said I’m unrealistic with regards to good faith, and human nature. Do you really believe that any amount of protests or screaming would cause the savages holding the hostages to release them???
The more we scream, the better they like it.

I feel this statement is ridiculous!

Ask the AP if they agree. Gulf of Mexico
Oops. That’s not allowed.
They used that incident to lay down a marker. Give a message.

 

[missy]

Missy- we’ve had discussions where you’ve said I’m unrealistic with regards to good faith, and human nature. Do you really believe that any amount of protests or screaming would cause the savages holding the hostages to release them???
The more we scream, the better they like it.

The only way forward isn’t pleasant for anyone but how do we deal with those who only want our total destruction? This was never about them wanting Israel for themselves. It’s about them wanting complete annihilation of all those standing in their way. Israel just happens to be first because they’re standing between them and complete takeover of the Middle East. West is next. It has already started. As evidenced by their take over of the universities and their faculty members. As I’ve written to you before they’re in it for the long game. 9/11 is not an isolated incident. If we don’t do something significant. Mark my words

 

[Rockdiamond]

we don’t do something significant.

For example- give up on the US Constitution and our free speech rights.
or let’s defund colleges that have had these demonstrations… That includes cancer research and other things that doesn’t match the policies of the current administration.

 

[missy]

For example- give up on the US Constitution and our free speech rights.
or let’s defund colleges that have had these demonstrations… That includes cancer research and other things that doesn’t match the policies of the current administration.

Don't out words in my mouth
I am and always have been pro free speech
Pro human rights
Pro research
Including stem cell research

Though yes I am 100% for de-funding colleges and the administration who don't protect student rights
ALL students. Not just the non jewish students

How about wipe all terrorist groups off the face of this earth?
I am all for that
How about you?