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Mixing lab and natural diamonds

Lookinagain said:
Please don't tell me that. I am not interested in have lab stones in my jewelry. So I guess no melee for me.
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I didn’t mean to alarm you, and as I mentioned in my post just now, those studies I alluded to were in reference to colorless diamonds.

It may be different for colored diamonds

Pink diamonds may be scarce enough that they’re better able to track the sourcing, but I cannot say for sure.
 
Lookinagain said:
I don't buy colored diamonds, if you mean, pink, yellow, blue. So yes, I'm alarmed.
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Oh, I thought we were talking about pink melee for @Mjay ’s setting.

But yeah, there’s a lot of money to me made by rough sellers when the “cut” their product.
 
Dr_Diesel said:
Oh, I thought we were talking about pink melee for @Mjay ’s setting.

But yeah, there’s a lot of money to me made by rough sellers when the “cut” their product.
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Well, we were. But you said that colorless melee is mixed with lab, so that started me on thinking about that.
 
If you want to be reasonably certain that you are getting natural colorless melee, just ask/check for fluorescence. I don’t think colorless lab diamonds come with fluorescence yet.
 
0-0-0 said:
If you want to be reasonably certain that you are getting natural colorless melee, just ask/check for fluorescence. I don’t think colorless lab diamonds come with fluorescence yet.
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good idea. I know that melee isn't all that pricey but it would really bother me to think I was getting all natural/mined diamonds and ended up with some lab stones. Just a mind clean thing for me that I can't get past.
 
I'd suggest you not mix the two types of diamonds, you're not in that spot with your mindset and you may never be happy with the finished product.

I'm in the other diamond realm, I don't want anymore earth diamonds and am only interested in those created by the ingenuity of man. Neither one of us need compromise, there are plenty for both choices.:kiss2:
 
Dr_Diesel said:
When it comes to melee, nowadays I almost always opt for LGD. One reason is for the cost. The other reason is that in large sample analyses, they find that a lot of LGD gets mixed into parcels of otherwise natural diamonds.

When it comes to these small stones, unless you’re ready to get each one individually certified, there’s at least a fair chance that you’re gonna wind up with a mix of LGD and natural stones anyway.
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So this is a very valid point. It sucks that this is something that we have to worry about but this is truly the reality now that lab growns have infiltrated the market.
 
I have a natural pink diamond hidden halo on a moissanite ring, so obviously it doesn’t bug me! But it sounds like it wouldn’t be “mind clean” to you.
 
Mjay said:
So this is a very valid point. It sucks that this is something that we have to worry about but this is truly the reality now that lab growns have infiltrated the market.
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That’s why I bought Grunberger Diamond melee. Guaranteed natural, H&A, ideal cuts.
 
NY_Resonant said:
That’s why I bought Grunberger Diamond melee. Guaranteed natural, H&A, ideal cuts.
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This is a great resource! Thank you for sharing it!
 
0-0-0 said:
If you want to be reasonably certain that you are getting natural colorless melee, just ask/check for fluorescence. I don’t think colorless lab diamonds come with fluorescence yet.
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The fakes usually fluoresce brigh orange reddish where as, you are correct, the natural almost always fluoresce blue.
 
Garry H (Cut Nut) said:
The fakes usually fluoresce brigh orange reddish
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In my experience only lab diamonds treated to become pink have the weird orange fluorescence. Have you seen it in colorless???
 
Sunrises Sunsets said:
Or perhaps earth stones masquerading as those created by the ingenuity of man.;)2
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It is interesting that until investors plowed money into synthetics diamonds (buy one at half the price of a real diamond) diamonds were natural and man made was synthetic.
Today the marketing worked and "diamonds" are earth, earth mine or mined diamonds (mining is bad, right?).
And the USA decided that synthetic (the accurate and always applied gemological and gemmological term) decided that synthetic was to be outlawed. The fact USA has no commercial diamond mines. At the time USA thought it was going to be the largest producer of synthetic gem diamonds. Fail!
So when you use those terms, please consider the marketing dollars that support your choice of words Sunrise :-)
 
Garry H (Cut Nut) said:
It is interesting that until investors plowed money into synthetics diamonds (buy one at half the price of a real diamond) diamonds were natural and man made was synthetic.
Today the marketing worked and "diamonds" are earth, earth mine or mined diamonds (mining is bad, right?).
And the USA decided that synthetic (the accurate and always applied gemological and gemmological term) decided that synthetic was to be outlawed. The fact USA has no commercial diamond mines. At the time USA thought it was going to be the largest producer of synthetic gem diamonds. Fail!
So when you use those terms, please consider the marketing dollars that support your choice of words Sunrise :-)
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Looking at the over all picture of diamonds, few of us are engaged or financially involved in the production of or unearthing of diamonds. For years the public was hoodwinked into the belief of the scarcity of diamonds which many declare was the work of DeBeer's efforts and how valuable they were.

I have pictures of the huge diamond mines that have scarred the earth and, TBH, if I had seen those sites earlier in my life, I don't believe I would have earth diamonds in my possession. I'm not sure that the process to create man-made diamonds is any easier on the face of the earth, I don't have the details. I'm not a tree hugger per say, but the huge mines damage is appalling. (Internet search of the largest diamond mines in the world...)

Am I mistaken in believing "marketing dollars" are being made on both types of diamonds and the USA is simply streamlining the purchasing of all diamonds. Lab grown and earth grown is still observed in marketing and that hasn't changed.

I have read quite a number of posts and there are those who can only appreciate earth diamonds and the younger generation and a few of us older members who believe a diamond is a diamond no matter the process. I respect those perspectives but I think "fake" means a look-a-like stone such as moissanite or CZ's. Whether earth or man-made diamonds, both have been determined to be diamonds.

It's an interesting conversation, Garry. I have earth diamonds in my possession but I don't think any less of man-made diamonds that others own. I think there is opportunity in this world for many choices. :think:
 
Garry H (Cut Nut) said:
Yes David, as the untreated look orange pink.
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Here's strong orange fluorescence in action

I've checked a bunch of lab diamond pieces set with Melee. Larger stones generally have lab reports which identify fluorescence.
Interestingly, IGI just identifies this ( and all the other pink treated pink lab diamonds we've seen) as "Strong" and no effort to qualify what the resulting color is. THe exception might be HPHT pink lab diamonds, but I can't be sure.
But I've yet to see a single colorless lab diamond with any fluorescence.
 
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Garry H (Cut Nut) said:
So when you use those terms, please consider the marketing dollars that support your choice of words Sunrise
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We see this from different sides of the same coin.
Given that man made diamonds are ostensibly identical to traditional diamonds....errr ...I mean, old fashioned diamonds...no, that's not right..... natural diamonds, that's a good word...
My point is, the market changed, and we need a way to distinguish where the diamond is from.
To me, the term "earth mined" is the most accurate, non pejorative phrase to describe diamonds that were, in fact, mined from the earth.
I agree that the term "lab grown" is "fluffy"
But it makes little difference .
That's part of the issue we face as diamond sellers- consumers of man made diamonds ( like that better?) are , in general, less concerned about the terminology.
The way I see it- we don't sell diamonds. We provide a service that involves diamonds, but there's a lot more to it.
People could find pretty decent jewelry at Costco, for years- at cheap prices. There's room in the market for both mass marketed and boutique sellers. THis applies to synthetic or natural diamonds ( was that good?)

From my perspective, the shift towards man made diamonds is driven by market forces beyond anyone's control. No use fighting it.
 
I’m having a real dilemma right now about mixing my natural untreated sapphires with a lab. I checked the prices of the lab and I bought it for 1500 or so about a year and a half ago. I checked the price now and it’s about 500. I wonder how much lower it will go. I look at it as beautiful but it’s like a CZ to me in terms of value.
Sadly, it was a waste of money to me and I won’t use it with my natural sapphires.
 
Tigerlilyrosepetal said:
I’m having a real dilemma right now about mixing my natural untreated sapphires with a lab. I checked the prices of the lab and I bought it for 1500 or so about a year and a half ago. I checked the price now and it’s about 500. I wonder how much lower it will go. I look at it as beautiful but it’s like a CZ to me in terms of value.
Sadly, it was a waste of money to me and I won’t use it with my natural sapphires.
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I guess I look at it differently since I don’t see jewelry as an investment. Personally i’d rather spend 2k on a lab diamond and invest 28k versus spending 30k on a natural diamond since they look the same. I assume the 2k is worth $0 but i’m still ahead of the 30k purchase that I can resell for 21k (70%).

Sadly my wife disagrees (haha) and most of her jewelry is natural. She just “appreciates” it more knowing it is more valuable when she puts it on.
 
NY_Resonant said:
I guess I look at it differently since I don’t see jewelry as an investment. Personally i’d rather spend 2k on a lab diamond and invest 28k versus spending 30k on a natural diamond since they look the same. I assume the 2k is worth $0 but i’m still ahead of the 30k purchase that I can resell for 21k (70%).

Sadly my wife disagrees (haha) and most of her jewelry is natural. She just “appreciates” it more knowing it is more valuable when she puts it on.
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I know my husband would also agree with you. Stupidly, most likely, from an economic perspective, what matters for me in diamonds-especially for engagement rings-is the value of them. I wasn’t lucky enough to get one when we got married and have been upgrading through it the years. The value of it makes it feel special and something to treasure and take care of. Something cheap makes me feel it’s not special because I, or anyone, can get it anywhere and it’s very replaceable. I don’t treat it with the same care and it’s just not the same.
 
Tigerlilyrosepetal said:
I know my husband would also agree with you. Stupidly, most likely, from an economic perspective, what matters for me in diamonds-especially for engagement rings-is the value of them. I wasn’t lucky enough to get one when we got married and have been upgrading through it the years. The value of it makes it feel special and something to treasure and take care of. Something cheap makes me feel it’s not special because I, or anyone, can get it anywhere and it’s very replaceable. I don’t treat it with the same care and it’s just not the same.
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Definitely understand. My wife was gifted a Birkin 35 by her previous husband twenty years ago. It was in perfect condition, she treasured it and was super careful with it every time she moved apartments by hand carrying it. A week ago she tried to sell it via the Real Deal because she wasn’t using it and was going to use the money to buy a painting — they reported a number of inconsistencies including in the Hermes stamp. She was devastated, of course, but i’m not sure if her ex husband did her a favor or not by lying to her twenty years ago about it being a forgery he bought in HK. She certainly appreciated it a heck of a lot more for 20 years than she would have if he had told her… still a betrayal to lie to your wife — not contesting that… i’m just sad she found out now and it tainted all the memories.
 
Sorry for not reading the whole thread in its entirety before I ask:
Are lab sapphires and lab other gemstones called synthetics? What’s the terminology used there?
 
Tigerlilyrosepetal said:
I know my husband would also agree with you. Stupidly, most likely, from an economic perspective, what matters for me in diamonds-especially for engagement rings-is the value of them. I wasn’t lucky enough to get one when we got married and have been upgrading through it the years. The value of it makes it feel special and something to treasure and take care of. Something cheap makes me feel it’s not special because I, or anyone, can get it anywhere and it’s very replaceable. I don’t treat it with the same care and it’s just not the same.
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Then you may not be happy with gems, a fine home in a great location or pure gold are far more valuable than most things you'd be sold in gem jewelry. But they also can lose value.

Earth grown diamonds were more expensive through the years because of controlled availability, not because they were worth more. I think that confuses many people.
 
0515vision said:
Sorry for not reading the whole thread in its entirety before I ask:
Are lab sapphires and lab other gemstones called synthetics? What’s the terminology used there?
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"Typically, synthetic sapphires have higher refractive indices than natural sapphires due to disparities in their chemical composition..." This may be the reason synthetic sapphires are labeled as such.
 
Tigerlilyrosepetal said:
Stupidly, most likely, from an economic perspective, what matters for me in diamonds-especially for engagement rings-is the value of them.
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I totally get this. BUt let's look at the numbers.
Let's take a hypothetical 2ct D/VS1 RBC
Natural= $25k
Man Made= $2500
I'm taking these numbers from one of the larger diamond sites.
Someone who paid $25k, and needs to sell for cash.... they're looking at about $12-15k recovery. A loss of $10-$12k
Even if the lab grown is worth $0 ( it's not- there's still some value there) man made is still far better from an economic standpoint. We could buy 5 Lab diamonds just from the loss of one natural
 
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