Need Help Please! Emerald Cut - $20-25k Budget!

[Rockdiamond]

Date: 1/25/2009 12:10:20 PM
Author: strmrdr
squarish emerald billed as a square emerald then as an asscher?!?!?!?!?!?!
The stone itself looks very nice for a squarish emerald.
http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond204-ct-square-emerald-diamond-j-color-offers-great-value

Storm- thank you very much for the complement- left handed though it may be.
But please- if you want to criticize something, be specific.
In terms of what is, and what is not an "Asscher Cut" diamond- there''s ample controversy. The case could be made that only a branded Royal Asscher should be called an Asscher- but of course that''s not what goes on.


Here''s the only time I use the word "Asscher" in the listing

If you love Asscher cut diamonds, this one will immediately catch your eye. It''s got that "hall of mirrors" effect.

Again- if you don''t like something, thankfully we have free speech here- so opinions are welcome.
But unsubstantiated accusations are NOT the same thing.

 

[bgray]

I have to agree with Rockdiamond: there are many people who feel that they are the final arbiter of what is good and what is not. Strmdr is very knowledgeable but that does not give him the right to disparage.

Date: 1/25/2009 1:18:23 PM
Author: Rockdiamond

Date: 1/25/2009 12:06:22 PM

Author: strmrdr

funky with an overblown description as stated above....

http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond-210-ivvs2-emerald-cut-gia-great-cut

Storm- this is just another example of bashing for no reason.

Please clarify what exactly is ''overblown'' about my description.

And again- please clarify why you call the diamond ''Funky''''


I do LOVE funky things ( like ''Tower of Power ie)- but you''re using the term in a pejorative manner with nothing to back it up.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 1/25/2009 1:13:39 PM
Author: Rockdiamond

I''m NOT describing it as ''Blue White''- rather saying that it could be described that way. Of course we do go on to post a photo of the GIA report, and clearly identify the diamond as an ''E'' color.

Furthermore, you are tossing around words carelessly- such as the word ''Illegal'' That''s irresponsible.

Based on your own post

That is exactly what the ftc ruling makes illegal describing a diamond with fluorescence as blue/white which is exactly what you did.
As a diamond dealer under the law you are not allowed to use the term in the description of a diamond and that is exactly how you used it.

 

[Rockdiamond]

You again use the word "illegal" which is totally inappropriate.
I feel that we were extremely accurate in our description
After all the stone has strong blue fluorescence- indeed, in person there is a slight blue-ish tinge in the stone. You can even see it in the photos.
Furthermore, we accurately depicted the color by posting a GIA report, and clearly identifying the diamond as an E color with Strong Blue Fluorescence.
In addition, you are avoiding answering all the unsubstantiated things which I pointed out.

Karl, do you think it''s fair to trash a business with nothing whatsoever to back it up?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 1/25/2009 1:18:23 PM
Author: Rockdiamond

Date: 1/25/2009 12:06:22 PM

Author: strmrdr

funky with an overblown description as stated above....

http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond-210-ivvs2-emerald-cut-gia-great-cut

Storm- this is just another example of bashing for no reason.

Please clarify what exactly is ''overblown'' about my description.

And again- please clarify why you call the diamond ''Funky''''


I do LOVE funky things ( like ''Tower of Power ie)- but you''re using the term in a pejorative manner with nothing to back it up.

Huge dead zones evident in every picture...

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 1/25/2009 2:33:01 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
You again use the word 'illegal' which is totally inappropriate.

I feel that we were extremely accurate in our description

After all the stone has strong blue fluorescence- indeed, in person there is a slight blue-ish tinge in the stone. You can even see it in the photos.

Furthermore, we accurately depicted the color by posting a GIA report, and clearly identifying the diamond as an E color with Strong Blue Fluorescence.

In addition, you are avoiding answering all the unsubstantiated things which I pointed out.


Karl, do you think it's fair to trash a business with nothing whatsoever to back it up?

I am not the one saying it is illegal the ftc says it is illegal.
Therefore it is totally appropriate to say it is illegal.

You asked for evidence why someone may say that some of your diamond may be funky and some descriptions overblown so I provided my opinion on why someone may think that.
You can argue with me but that is why some people see it that way.
What you choose to do with that information is up to you but I'm not going to argue about it.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Date: 1/25/2009 2:44:34 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 1/25/2009 1:18:23 PM
Author: Rockdiamond

Date: 1/25/2009 12:06:22 PM

Author: strmrdr

funky with an overblown description as stated above....

http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond-210-ivvs2-emerald-cut-gia-great-cut

Storm- this is just another example of bashing for no reason.

Please clarify what exactly is ''overblown'' about my description.

And again- please clarify why you call the diamond ''Funky''


I do LOVE funky things ( like ''Tower of Power ie)- but you''re using the term in a pejorative manner with nothing to back it up.

Huge dead zones evident in every picture...

Thank you Karl- that''s a specific criticism.
Many people would love the way the stone looks, including me- but of course you have a right to say you don''t like the way it does.
Don''t you think that it''s crucial if someone is posting as an expert, to back up such criticisms with specific points?

 

[Rockdiamond]

Date: 1/25/2009 2:50:43 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 1/25/2009 2:33:01 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
You again use the word ''illegal'' which is totally inappropriate.

I feel that we were extremely accurate in our description

After all the stone has strong blue fluorescence- indeed, in person there is a slight blue-ish tinge in the stone. You can even see it in the photos.

Furthermore, we accurately depicted the color by posting a GIA report, and clearly identifying the diamond as an E color with Strong Blue Fluorescence.

In addition, you are avoiding answering all the unsubstantiated things which I pointed out.


Karl, do you think it''s fair to trash a business with nothing whatsoever to back it up?

I am not the one saying it is illegal the ftc says it is illegal.
Therefore it is totally appropriate to say it is illegal.

You asked for evidence why someone may say that some of your diamond may be funky and some descriptions overblown so I provided my opinion on why someone may think that.
You can argue with me but that is why some people see it that way.
What you choose to do with that information is up to you but I''m not going to argue about it.

Again Karl- don;t you feel that those posting as experts need to carefully choose words?
Here''s what the FTC says

It is unfair or deceptive to use the term "blue white" or any representation of similar meaning to describe any diamond that under normal, north daylight or its equivalent shows any color or any trace of any color other than blue or bluish.

For something to be illegal, first a law would need to be passed, then someone wqould have to break that law. There is no such law.

I believe The FTC is warning against people who are trying to misrepresent the color of a diamond by ambiguously calling it "Blue White".
I agree that it''s important to use correct terminology.....but even if someone was trying to use the term deceptively it''s not against the law.

In this specific case we are not trying to decieve anyone. Our listing accurately describes the color of the diamond we are offering.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Karl- my main goal in how we depict our diamonds is accurate representation.
If there are areas that need improvement- especially in how we represent diamonds- and the educational aspects of what I write, I want to improve them.

I truly welcome criticism- believe me, it's not easy to accept - but if one can take a step back and try and see how other perceive their efforts, that is a good thing.


I am really happy to be here- and able to discuss the issues with you - and others.

I honestly believe that that there have been a lot of cases similar to this one here on PS.
Someone might ask about DBL- and thankfully, there's many positive responses.
But there were also cases where derogatory statements were made that had no basis in fact.

Please- and this goes for anyone- if we're doing something wrong, we want to know about it.
No company is going to sell to thousands of people and have each and every one gushing.
It's how a company deals with those who are unsatisfied that's a real test of how a business conducts itself.


I don't think referring to the term "Blue-White" the way I did in any way compromises our integrity.
If others agree, I will gladly remove the reference from our site.

 

[bgray]

this is an awful picture..............you cant tell much from this anyway

Date: 1/25/2009 2:44:34 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 1/25/2009 1:18:23 PM

Author: Rockdiamond

Date: 1/25/2009 12:06:22 PM


Author: strmrdr


funky with an overblown description as stated above....


http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond-210-ivvs2-emerald-cut-gia-great-cut

Storm- this is just another example of bashing for no reason.


Please clarify what exactly is ''overblown'' about my description.


And again- please clarify why you call the diamond ''Funky''''



I do LOVE funky things ( like ''Tower of Power ie)- but you''re using the term in a pejorative manner with nothing to back it up.

Huge dead zones evident in every picture...

 

[Rockdiamond]

Date: 1/25/2009 12:10:20 PM
Author: strmrdr
squarish emerald billed as a square emerald then as an asscher?!?!?!?!?!?!
The stone itself looks very nice for a squarish emerald.
http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond204-ct-square-emerald-diamond-j-color-offers-great-value

I agree bgray- that particular photo is not all that great....there''s one better one in the listing. But I''m not happy with the photos in that particular listing either.

Karl- I''m really not trying to argue, but please understand that implying that someone is breaking a law is a serious accusation.
Then, you have criticized the listing in the quote above- for what reason!?!?!?!?....I mentioned that if someone liked Asschers they''d like that one. What exactly is wrong with that?
Again, I''m not trying to be argumentative, but I think anyone who is criticising another''s business should not take such things lightly- and also be prepared to explain why they were taking such harsh action.

 

[bgray]

DBL: I didnt mean it critically --I say it only because people comment --good and bad-- about stones when MOST of the photos posted on Pricescope for others to see are of highly varying and imperfect quality. That is shortsighted and dangerous




QUOTE]Date: 1/25/2009 5:27:05 PM
Author: Rockdiamond

Date: 1/25/2009 12:10:20 PM

Author: strmrdr

squarish emerald billed as a square emerald then as an asscher?!?!?!?!?!?!

The stone itself looks very nice for a squarish emerald.

http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond204-ct-square-emerald-diamond-j-color-offers-great-value

I agree bgray- that particular photo is not all that great....there''s one better one in the listing. But I''m not happy with the photos in that particular listing either.

Karl- I''m really not trying to argue, but please understand that implying that someone is breaking a law is a serious accusation.

Then, you have criticized the listing in the quote above- for what reason!?!?!?!?....I mentioned that if someone liked Asschers they''d like that one. What exactly is wrong with that?

Again, I''m not trying to be argumentative, but I think anyone who is criticising another''s business should not take such things lightly- and also be prepared to explain why they were taking such harsh action.[/quote]

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 1/25/2009 5:27:05 PM
Author: Rockdiamond

Date: 1/25/2009 12:10:20 PM

Author: strmrdr

squarish emerald billed as a square emerald then as an asscher?!?!?!?!?!?!

The stone itself looks very nice for a squarish emerald.

http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond204-ct-square-emerald-diamond-j-color-offers-great-value

I agree bgray- that particular photo is not all that great....there''s one better one in the listing. But I''m not happy with the photos in that particular listing either.

Karl- I''m really not trying to argue, but please understand that implying that someone is breaking a law is a serious accusation.

Then, you have criticized the listing in the quote above- for what reason!?!?!?!?....I mentioned that if someone liked Asschers they''d like that one. What exactly is wrong with that?

Again, I''m not trying to be argumentative, but I think anyone who is criticising another''s business should not take such things lightly- and also be prepared to explain why they were taking such harsh action.

You asked!

You know as well I do that gia would classify that diamond as an emerald cut.
That is the proper classification.

As far as being illegal it is...
You also know that ftc rulings have the force of law.
Enough jewelers right on the street your on have been put out of busineess that you know that.

 

[bgray]

I think you are being unfair and attempting to hold him to a standard that you dont hold anyone else to. Jewelers and dealers use the term Asscher and Square Emerald interchangeably. How many real asschers have come across Pricescope or through a vendor one? two? So are you going to berate every vendor for using the term "Asscher" for a stone thats not really an Asscher? Many vendors take artistic license too...........does the way he used the words blue and white cross the line? Personally I dont think so and since you are not a lawyer you should be careful because what you have accused him of could be construed as libel.

Date: 1/25/2009 8:31:47 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 1/25/2009 5:27:05 PM

Author: Rockdiamond

Date: 1/25/2009 12:10:20 PM


Author: strmrdr


squarish emerald billed as a square emerald then as an asscher?!?!?!?!?!?!


The stone itself looks very nice for a squarish emerald.


http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond204-ct-square-emerald-diamond-j-color-offers-great-value

I agree bgray- that particular photo is not all that great....there's one better one in the listing. But I'm not happy with the photos in that particular listing either.

Karl- I'm really not trying to argue, but please understand that implying that someone is breaking a law is a serious accusation.


Then, you have criticized the listing in the quote above- for what reason!?!?!?!?....I mentioned that if someone liked Asschers they'd like that one. What exactly is wrong with that?


Again, I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I think anyone who is criticising another's business should not take such things lightly- and also be prepared to explain why they were taking such harsh action.

You asked!


You know as well I do that gia would classify that diamond as an emerald cut.

That is the proper classification.


As far as being illegal it is...

You also know that ftc rulings have the force of law.

Enough jewelers right on the street your on have been put out of busineess that you know that.

 

[Rockdiamond]

It''s clear that you are correct bgray.
Karl- given that this is a forum about diamonds, and education, false accusations are counter productive...
For one thing, there are many deceptive ads for diamonds- mine are not.
You brought up 47th street- one of the capitols of misrepresentation, and high pressure sales tactics.
If only these bad sellers would be policed and prevented from using bogus gem labs and deceptive representation.
Yet instead of focusing on real problems with representation, you simply make unfounded accusations, then fail to back up your words. Have you sent my listing off to FTC as you threatened? I invite you to do so.
It''s NOT illegal to utter the words "Blue-White"
FTC guidelines are NOT laws. They are suggestions designed to promote accurate and honest representation- and my listings comply.

Even the example in this very thread- someone came on and asked about a stone we are offering.
purrfectpear does not answer the question- but rather makes a general insulting statement- with no basis in fact.
Then you come on and add your .02cents
You insult the stone- yet provide noting as to educate people reading.
What''s wrong with the 2.76 E/SI2 Emerald Cut diamond?

I asked you to back up your words Karl- you don''t seem to be interested in the truth at all.

 

[all.of.the.above]

Nice thread jack, guys.

 

[Rockdiamond]

What would you suggest? If someone was slandering you, would you stay silent?

 

[purrfectpear]

Actually I didn't open this thread until today.

Congrats on the beautiful ring OP. I'm sure she is thrilled

As to the DBL mess, I think Storm addressed it better than I, and it's an inappropriate threadjack of OP's lovely engagement ring.

Should you need more "proof" of your funky stones, I'm sure I could post a few that I consider less than optimally cut. Understand that I was passing MY opinion. It is unlikely to change regardless of how much you whine.

 

[emeraldlover1]

RD...I understand your concern for your business. That being said, why not start another thread with a different topic? Personally, I understand why you want to defend your business and I believe that you have every right to. However, this thread was about someone elses engagement ring. I also do beilieve that even after vendors were suggested the OP did indeed buy a diamond through none of the suggested vendors.

 

[all.of.the.above]

No, I wouldn't stay silent, but I also wouldn't jack someone elses thread to argue with another member about business and legalities.

Congrats to the OP, btw, on your wonderful engagement!! What a gorgeous ring.

 

[Rockdiamond]

EM1- that''s a great idea- as long as the people who are doing the slandering will come to "defend" their positions.

Purrfect- someone asked about a diamond we offer- you did not answer that question- instead choosing to use innuendo and baseless insults.
If anyone threw dirt into this thread, it was you.
Is that why YOU are whining?

 

[emeraldlover1]

If you want constructive criticism, maybe start a thread on that. There are many people that will give you honest feedback from a consumer perspective but I don''t think this thread is the appropriate place to initiate that.

 

[Rockdiamond]

This thread will allow you to specifically detail the reason you criticized our company- purrfectpear and Storm- please come to this new thread so we can separate the conversation- the conversation that was started by purrfectpear

 

[Ali]

Consider this thread CLOSED on these issues and respect the original poster by taking this to a new thread.

 

[Imdanny]

Edited.
Oops, didn't see the moderator post, sorry.